Turning the table

[Erik]

Barrels of fun! Men sleeps with their exes all the time, it's great! No obligations, just hot sex by someone that knows you every in and out, going out of her way to please you and is too emotionally f*cked to say no. And f*ck the new husband too, nobody told him to be stupid, so he had it coming!

 

Go girl! You rock!

[Ladyjane14]

I find it interesting that many of the posts on this thread are really in favor of what the OP is doing...

 

What happened to that fine MORAL COMPASS that is usually applied to such situations?

 

Hmmm...I guess MORALITY really does have to do with one's agenda...and isn't as black and white as some would have us believe...

 

We hear all the time how people aren't "perfect" here in the OM/OW forum, don't we? We're all just "human"? That's the usual excuse, isn't it?

 

This seems pretty "human" too. Actually, I think it's a case of the 'lesser of two evils'. This OP probably wouldn't mind getting a literal 'pound of flesh' from the OW. She's settling for a figurative one instead.

 

You know, this forum is a microcosm and slanted to the OW's POV. There's quite a large segment of the population that would NOT have a decency problem with what this OP is doing. They'd see it as poetic justice.

 

In a world where your husband can be 'doing' his mistress on the kitchen table and in alot of states, you don't even have the legal recourse to throw his ass out... it's empowering. I totally 'get' it... but then again, I've never claimed to be an angel.

[stillafool]

I just hope you don't fall back in love with him as a result of being so intimate. The two of you have shared a lot, good and bad, and it's hard sometimes to separate your emotions when you're having sex with someone you loved enough to marry and have his kids. Also whether you realize it or not you and the OW are still fighting over your husband.

 

When I left my exH I was so happy not to have sex with him again so that part of your marriage must have been good. Also I have to agree with the other poster who said two wrongs don't make a right.

[whichwayisup]

For the record, I am not hurting my children.

 

Maybe not right now, but you will in the near future.

 

Yes. I am having fun with him. When I am done, I will dump him. I don't want to be with him all the time. I had him and I know how he is. No. I will not tell his wife. She'll find out one day as he is the one that want to leave her to come back to me. I don't want to be married or in a long term relationship with him except as co-parents. Sorry if you guys feel that I am wrong for what I am doing but I don't feel that way. Yeah two wrong don't make a right. But it feel good doing the wrong and watching her act like he wouldn't do it to her as he already is. Don't worry, I will make sure he has replacement when I dump him. Don't you think his new wife (old mistress) deserve this. Shouldn't she get the same thing she dished out?

 

Is revenge so sweet that after you dump him, and when his new wife finds out, don't ya think this is going to have an effect on the kids? Once again, daddy leaves? Another marriage down the tubes. Those kids are going to have serious trust issues with men. And you'll be a part of it, the second time around.

[Ripples]

This OP probably wouldn't mind getting a literal 'pound of flesh' from the OW. She's settling for a figurative one instead.

 

I reckon she is getting a literal pound, (or maybe two ), of flesh

[lindya]

In a world where your husband can be 'doing' his mistress on the kitchen table and in alot of states, you don't even have the legal recourse to throw his ass out... it's empowering. I totally 'get' it... but then again, I've never claimed to be an angel.

 

Is it empowering, though? It just seems to me that a situation like this would involve remaining unnecessarily glued to two people whose actions have already caused enough pain. I can understand the fantasy of slipping into that "OW" role as a form of revenge and a method to feel a bit more in control again...but as for turning that fantasy into reality, that just seems like a piece of madness.

 

It just seems so likely that this scenario will end up opening various wounds the OP wants to believe have totally healed (but, from the very fact that she's so keen on revenge, clearly haven't), and pouring buckets of salt into them. Being screwed over once is bad enough. Being screwed over, trying to get revenge and ended up getting doubly screwed over as a result would have to be a very painful (not to mention undignified) state of affairs.

[Ladyjane14]

Is it empowering, though?

 

Yeah... I think in the short-term it might be. Certainly there's a downside to it, particularly if she allows herself to become reinvested emotionally.

 

But there's another argument too, in that people who go around feeling used and tossed aside without asserting themselves often end up as perpetual victims....doormats, who self-punish for not standing up for themselves.

 

Think about it this way... If the affair began while their last baby was only a month old, it's likely that all this came down during a very vulnerable time in her life. A time when she was feeling particularly weak and ineffectual. It's only natural to want to take your power back, to prove that you're 'no easy meat'.

 

I dunno. You're right that this strategy keeps her engaged in conflict for longer than necessary. But if she's repairing self-esteem in the endeavor, that might be the most important thing to her right now. To my mind, as long as she's aware of the risks as well as the benefits... it's her call. She owes NOTHING to her ex... or to the OW who participated in the demise of her marriage and security.

[lindya]

To my mind, as long as she's aware of the risks as well as the benefits... it's her call. She owes NOTHING to her ex... or to the OW who participated in the demise of her marriage and security.

 

I agree that she doesn't owe them anything. Leaving the matter of her kids out of the equation (difficult as it is to do that) it just seems a very artificial method of boosting self esteem. I don't know.... almost like taking speed to perk yourself up, the long term disadvantages seem destined to outweigh any temporary boost.

 

I'd hope any woman in this position could find a better way of asserting herself and boosting her self respect than continuing to sleep with the guy who dumped her for another woman and generally made her feel like crap. I guess I just don't get it.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

The BEST revenge is to rub poison ivy on his genitals without his knowledge - then let your H his new W/xOW figure it out.

[Trialbyfire]

lol, or give him a mild STD to bring home as a gift to his loved one(s)...

[bigblueeyes]

I don't think this is unusual at all - I know 2 other women that have been in the same situation.

 

THIS IS WHY I LOVE LOVESHACK.

 

Thanks Moongirl for reminding us that no situation is unique, no problem hits only you.

 

What is unique is how we deal with it. That is when we step into character and show who we really are and what we are made of.

[Seen_It_All]

Gotta admit, I'm having a real hard time feeling bad for the new wife. She sure didn't feel bad when she was a part of the breakup of this marriage - and she DID play a part. The husband played a bigger part, but the OWs hands are NOT clean, no matter what she'd like to claim.

 

Personally I wouldn't touch this guy with a 10 foot pole because he's nothing more than an alley cat.

 

HOWEVER, I suggest you get pictures before you're done playing with your ex-H so that one day you can send them to the new wife.

 

LOL...and OW constantly claim that the saying, "if he'll cheat WITH you he'll cheat ON you," is a myth. Guess there's some truth to that after all.

[NoIDidn't]

LOL...and OW constantly claim that the saying, "if he'll cheat WITH you he'll cheat ON you," is a myth. Guess there's some truth to that after all.

 

 

Seen_It

 

That's the thing. It is SOOOOOO common. Its especially common for those that know their H left for OW.

 

And GEL, you forget that there are TWO people who are acting like they are still M'd. Not just one. Its so easy to wag that judgmental finger at Sara500, but what about her exH? Isn't he clearly not over that M in wanting to dump his new W for his old one? Just like when the OW claim that the MM invited them into their M, did this not happen for Sara?

 

I don't condone it, but I have many former acquaintances that did this for a season with their exes. In fact, one couple isn't even D'd as they never want to remarry and don't see the point of actually filing (I don't agree with them, but not my problem). I personally find it funny that the very people that are in As think it is so wrong for her to do this. Is it because one of their 'sisters in crime' got her prize and still hasn't rode off into the sunset 'happily ever after'? Who even believes in that crap anyway?

[GreenEyedLady]

And GEL' date=' you forget that there are TWO people who are acting like they are still M'd. Not just one. Its so easy to wag that judgmental finger at Sara500, but what about her exH? Isn't he clearly not over that M in wanting to dump his new W for his old one? Just like when the OW claim that the MM invited them into their M, did this not happen for Sara?[/quote']

 

I wasn't wagging my finger at Sara500 at all...She can do what she wants, she's just going to end up hurting herself and possibly her children if she's not careful, they see more than you think...but she's an adult and can make her own decisions...and her XH, well, I'm sure we have the same thoughts about him...not everyone wants to have sex their X, but to each his own...

 

I was pointing out that alot of the posters who are in the "Adultery is wrong period" camp had posted in support of the OP and that I find it interesting that morality becomes a grey area when it supports their own agenda...How many times have we heard that adultery is immoral always? It destroys families, it destroys lives...Now some posters have said these very things on this thread, but others have thought it is a grand way to get revenge on the XOW/Now wife...so either adultery is always wrong or can be justified when you feel like it?

 

And I'm not arguing either point...I just wanted to comment on the turn the thread took...

 

P.S. I wasn't being judgmental...and I'm not exactly sure what comment of mine you were talking about...so if I didn't address what you meant for me to address...sorry...

[NoIDidn't]

GEL

 

Maybe YOU weren't judgmental (you certainly implied you think something is wrong with her in not being over her M), many others in this thread have been.

 

I, too, find it interesting that many BWs aren't telling Sara500 that affairs are wrong all the time. But like them, I too, am biased. This OW crossed the line and made it personal by opening attacking this woman's family. I am all for turning the other cheek in most cases, but I would have wanted to DO SOMETHING back to her. Maybe not sleep with my ex, but SOMETHING, ANYTHING to hurt her back as much as she hurt me.

 

Face it, like Lady Jane said, where is the "we are all human" chorus of the OW forum when you need it? Sara is human, and while I can't say I would cheat back (can't say I wouldn't either - just being honest), any woman in her shoes would have wanted to hurt in some way the woman that directly hurt her and her family.

 

Because I know how common it is, it doesn't surprise me in the least what she is doing or the responses to it - on either side.

[sara500]

" wasn't wagging my finger at Sara500 at all...She can do what she wants, she's just going to end up hurting herself and possibly her children if she's not careful, they see more than you think...but she's an adult and can make her own decisions...and her XH, well, I'm sure we have the same thoughts about him...not everyone wants to have sex their X, but to each his own...

 

 

Wow. Unbelievable. So am hurting my children because am sleeping with their father and they don't know it. Didn't my ex-husband and his new wife (old mistress) HURT our children when they decide to destroy our family? Did his old mistress think about children when she was having sex with my then husband? No. She was thinking about herself. So before any OW tell me anything about what I am doing, you better check yourself and look at what you are doing! So since I am doing with other OW are doing am wrong because he divorced me and married his older OW. Wow. I guess she suppose to live a happy life. Forget her indescrepancies. She's perfect and has not in any way or form has cause harm to our children. Get over yourself. I will continue to sleep with him until he call it quit or until I call it quit. If she don't like it, to bad. She should accept it as this is what she did to me. I find it amazing that other OW get upset when it is reversed on them. Guess what. You shouldn't get mad if you married your MM and he cheat on you. As didn't you cheat with him on his spouse? You should accept the cheating as a part of life because YOU once believed in it. Why change the way he is since he is married to you. Well, too bad. There are more women out there that will date YOUR new found love and YOU shouldn't be mad rather you should embace this other woman as she is your partner in the adultery world. yes. I am the OW and guess what it feels good doing it to her. I think I will take the pictures. Howabout doing it infront of a webcam or record it and mail it to her. So why aren't any of my sister OW embracing me and encourainge me to destroy their marriage and family?

[whichwayisup]

You have every right to do what you wanna do...My only point is, when you show her the proof that you've been sleeping with your ex, and they break up, YOUR children (again) are going to be affected by it and this time it is partially your doing.

[sara500]

Again how will my kids be affect by their father divorcing their former mistress? Answer this question: Didn't the mistress turned wife not take my kids into consideration when she was banging their father. You think she was thinking about the affect it would have on their life if their mother found out and their parents divorce? Do you think while she was lying on her back, did she once say I shouldn't do this because I don't want to hurt my kids. You think my kids are so attached to her that they will be tramatized by not seeing her. Get real. My kids are 10 and 12 yrs old. They know all about her as mistress-turned wife made sure everyone knew about her when we were married. If by chance they are affected, I will get them counseling. I got to go and meet my man. Ciao for now. don't worry my children are on spring break and are spending the night at their paternal grandmother house. I will talk to you later.......

[whichwayisup]

If you and your ex werent' having sex, maybe their marriage wouldn't come to an end. I'm just talking worse case senario here. You tell her you've been banging your exH, she ends the marriage and once again, your children have to deal with a big change! They'll see that marriages don't last. They could have some serious trust issues later in life. That is my whole point, and the fact is, you've got a part in the movie here and can make or break this situation.

 

I am glad to hear that you're willing to take them to therapy.

[woe_is_me]

" So why aren't any of my sister OW embracing me and encourainge me to destroy their marriage and family?

 

Maybe they would but hopefully most women aren't into destroying anything THAT intentionally

 

And as vilified as we are (OW) most of our situations are very different and a lot of us wouldn't cheat in our own marriage had we made vows...

 

My exH cheated on me ..i couldnt forgive or forget.. we eventually divorced..

It sounds to me like you still have a lot of feelings for your exH ..even for revenge i couldnt bring myself to sleep with mine

 

If thats not the case then im thinking you must live in a really really small town.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

And as vilified as we are (OW) most of our situations are very different and a lot of us wouldn't cheat in our own marriage had we made vows...

 

It seems to me that the fact that you take other's vows lighter than the ones that you make is a complete double standard.... you do what BEHOOVES YOU. Your situations are ALL THE SAME. He told me this and he told me that. He is married, you have no respect for marriages that are not your OWN? But you do respect your OWN R's??? Explain to me how this makes sense? HE was not happy, SO you consider his happiness as all important as long as it effects you positively. Because if he ADMITTED to needing several other R's to make him happy, I'm sure you would be fine with that. It's HIS happiness that matters, right? Or yours? I'm confused:confused: .

[IfWishesWereHorses]

And GEL, you forget that there are TWO people who are acting like they are still M'd. Not just one. Its so easy to wag that judgmental finger at Sara500, but what about her exH? Isn't he clearly not over that M in wanting to dump his new W for his old one?

 

It isn't that HE isn't over the marriage. HIS world revolves around him thinking that women desire him, they even will cater to his whims no matter the situation. I actually find some solace in the fact that she is able to convince him that she possibly doing this because HE is so irrisistable while all the time creating her own revenge (I hope). BUT the truth is that what ever the REALITY, HE assumes it is because HE is so damn great and SHE wants him so very badly. I couldn't give that to him EVEN if I wanted it! Sometimes other people's perception is the reality that you have (as in own not as in must) to deal with! He isn't concerned with any R, just that women WANT HIM! I could NEVER CATER TO THAT! I say sleep with him one more time, use one of those sex toy gloves laced with poison ivy!!!! Let HIM explain that to HER! (New wife)

 

About the kid thing.... I have never encountered a situation where YOUNG children wanted anything more than their parents reunion. You didn't mention the sexes I don't believe, but as a rule, girls have trouble with women and boys have men. I would make sure the kids didn't find out because they don't deserve "false hopes".

 

I do agree however that as parents you teach by example. Your children learn how to be parent, adults, lovers, spouses, and friends by your and others in their lives example. Unfortuantely that often takes a back seat to OUR own desires and needs.

 

I hope that OP doesn't get burned by her own actions, that her husband doesn't recieve too much pleasure in the fact that two (atleast) women WANT him, and that in the end she finds the happiness that she deserves. I believe strongly that there are NATURAL consequenses to ones actions though without us having to intervene ourselves. I would much prefer for other OW to learn this lesson than myself. If I was in a position to get out of the situation that OP was in I would have MC Hammer's philosophy..... "Can't touch THIS"!

[woe_is_me]

But you do respect your OWN R's??? Explain to me how this makes sense? HE was not happy, SO you consider his happiness as all important as long as it effects you positively. Because if he ADMITTED to needing several other R's to make him happy, I'm sure you would be fine with that. It's HIS happiness that matters, right? Or yours? I'm confused:confused: .

 

..and confusing

 

if this was directed at me..

 

HE disrespected HIS vows over and over again..and his happiness isnt what this thread is about.

[GreenEyedLady]

[quote name=sara500;1128942Wow. Unbelievable. So am hurting my children because am sleeping with their father and they don't know it. Didn't my ex-husband and his new wife (old mistress) HURT our children when they decide to destroy our family? Did his old mistress think about children when she was having sex with my then husband? No. She was thinking about herself. So before any OW tell me anything about what I am doing' date=' you better check yourself and look at what you are doing! So since I am doing with other OW are doing am wrong because he divorced me and married his older OW. Wow. I guess she suppose to live a happy life. Forget her indescrepancies. She's perfect and has not in any way or form has cause harm to our children. Get over yourself. I will continue to sleep with him until he call it quit or until I call it quit. If she don't like it, to bad. She should accept it as this is what she did to me. I find it amazing that other OW get upset when it is reversed on them. Guess what. You shouldn't get mad if you married your MM and he cheat on you. As didn't you cheat with him on his spouse? You should accept the cheating as a part of life because YOU once believed in it. Why change the way he is since he is married to you. Well, too bad. There are more women out there that will date YOUR new found love and YOU shouldn't be mad rather you should embace this other woman as she is your partner in the adultery world. yes. I am the OW and guess what it feels good doing it to her. I think I will take the pictures. Howabout doing it infront of a webcam or record it and mail it to her. So why aren't any of my sister OW embracing me and encourainge me to destroy their marriage and family?[/quote]

 

Like I said, you're an adult and will make your own decisions...maybe you should check your facts before you go attacking...

 

I ended my A and I was LIED to by mine about his marital status...I didn't go into it wanting to ruin or hurt anyone...unfortunately, you can't say the same for your own situation, you're wanting to do just that...and if you knew anything about OW, most didn't go into it wanting to hurt anyone...

 

As for your children, they need an adult to be mature and show them how to act in a responsible matter...you're right that your XH did an awful thing by cheating on you, but how is what you are doing now any better? Your XH was/is a creep, but that doesn't mean you have to act like he did/does...And yes, he is their father, but he is married to someone else and they know this...and the fantasy that mom and dad will get back together is a powerful one for children...and I'm afraid that if they know more than you think about what's going on, it will be a crushing blow when it ends again...just food for thought...

 

I really don't care about your XH or the NewWife...however, I do think that you are the one who will be hurt...this is no way to win back self-esteem...I think that you obviously have feelings for your XH or you wouldn't still be sleeping with him...and that is what complicates things...

[Ladyjane14]

I was pointing out that alot of the posters who are in the "Adultery is wrong period" camp had posted in support of the OP and that I find it interesting that morality becomes a grey area when it supports their own agenda...How many times have we heard that adultery is immoral always? It destroys families, it destroys lives...Now some posters have said these very things on this thread, but others have thought it is a grand way to get revenge on the XOW/Now wife...so either adultery is always wrong or can be justified when you feel like it?

 

And I'm not arguing either point...I just wanted to comment on the turn the thread took...

 

 

I think this brings us to the validity of the "affair marriage". You know, there are quite a few folks who will not legitimize this kind of relationship under ANY circumstances. You want to throw a hand grenade into a forum sometime? ... toss that one in over at MB. :p (j/k)

 

I'm not quite sure how I feel about it, to be honest. I'm still forming an opinion, so I'm thinking out loud here. But, it's easy to see that if we withhold "validation" from the affair marriage, it's not really adultery, is it?

 

In the OP's situation, I can't blame her for not recognizing her ex-husband's second marriage. I wouldn't either if I were in her shoes. She's seen him invalidate TWO marriages already. He treats the institution of marriage as a sham. It only follows that anybody who marries him would be living a "sham-marriage", and at least from the OP's viewpoint, would then be unable to command respect.

 

I think what it boils down to is that socially, cheaters tell us something about how they REALLY view the institution itself. They may give us lip-service about the sanctity of it when it's THEIR marriage and not someone else's, but their actions tell us something entirely different. Unless and until.. they PROVE through their actions that they've changed their viewpoint and have adopted a new attitude of respect toward commitment... they just can't be surprised when people don't take them seriously.

 

I find myself NOT adopting a concrete view which would lead me toward invalidating every "affair marriage". In situations where two young people got together after having made some previous mistakes... I notice that I tend to take my cue from them. If they've learned to respect marriage and commitment and then show it through their ACTIONS, I'm taking them seriously. If they're still up to their same old antics or spouting the same old tired jargon which enabled the infidelity... hey, they deserve what they get IMO.

 

Actions are followed by consequences. That's not rocket science. The consequence of making a mistake and then correcting it as best you can over a period of time, is DIFFERENT than the consequence of taking deliberate action which hurts other people... just for the sake of self-gratification.

 

Marriage is MORE than a piece of paper or saying some vows. It's deeper than that. These two people treated it disrespectfully and having done so... it's incumbent upon them to EARN social respect, and thus "validate" their association to the extent that it's visibly meaningful in the eyes of the public. It's not for us to legitimize their illicit relationship at this point... it's for THEM to do. And if they can't get it done... that's their own fault.

 

Is it punitive in some ways? Yeah... it probably is. People shouldn't profit through theft. But it can also be cathartic for the affair couple if they'll just go ahead and face the music. Look at it this way... if a person wants to be on the fringe of society and then rejoin it later when it suits their purposes... reparations must be made so the sins can be purged. And not just socially, but internally as well. If having an affair is always wrong, then it was also wrong when THEY did it. A person has to get right with themselves and live within their own belief system if they want to feel good about the guy/gal in the mirror.

 

So, if you do the crime... it's probably best to go ahead and do the time. Once your penance is paid, you can look society in the face and say you've reconciled it as best you could and you're currently living within the parameters of the ethics which you've claimed as yours. If that means a cheater has to be ACTUALLY sorry for what they did, and then put in YEARS establishing a new history of adherence to commitment in order to validate their marriage, then THAT's what needs to happen if they WANT legitimacy for their new union. It's not a 'given' for people who have already proved their willingness to sh*t on it.