"friendship" - grieving...

[sadrightnow]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I’m having a really hard time coming to terms with the end of a relationship I was in until about a week ago. I’m not sure why it’s so hard, because it wasn’t even a relationship in the conventional sense (it was a “friendship”), and it didn’t last that long (6 months or so), but it felt – for me, and I thought for the other person – pretty intense. [/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I met this guy online September last year. We had a great first date and I (stupidly, I now think) pursued more contact with him even though he sent me no clear signals he was interested in the few weeks after that first date. I knew, after not too long, that he had a lot of problems – a chronic illness, depression, bad past relationships, insecure/chronic issues with rejection and abandonment and also a track record of forming friendships with women that fall apart when “the woman” wants something more (I believe he concealed from me his own role in what went on). Yeah, red flags everywhere. [/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]But we did become friends, and we started hanging out – weekly. I told myself at the time that this wasn’t a problem, that we could be friends and I wouldn’t ask for anything more. We had a lot in common, interests wise and just our sense of humour and things like that, and also our histories and our psychology, and chatting was a joy. I wanted to be there for him, because I could see he kind of needed a friend. There was nothing sexual going on, not in a physical way at least, but the following things did happen:[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Smutty talk. Usually jokey stuff, but there was quite a lot, and it escalated.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Text message conversations that would run up to like 15 messages over a few hours. We hardly ever talked on the phone. I didn’t ring him, because the couple of times I did, he didn’t pick up[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Sleeping in each other’s beds[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Confiding very personal things, about relationships, sex, stuff that happened to us in our childhoods (not very good stuff on either side)[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Holding/stroking hands! Usually while lying in be[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]A lot of teasing, which as the “friendship” deteriorated, turned quite nasty[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]The last time I saw him he ran his hand up my leg while I was pretending to be asleep and I didn’t respond (because he’d told me he didn’t want anything with me). After that, he distanced himself from me. [/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]The following things were said:[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I told him after a month or two that I had a crush on him. He said it wasn’t a good idea, and I said OK, because I was going to the UK for a month, and expected to get over it[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]He freaked out when I told him I was going overseas because apparently people in his past don’t come back when they go overseas, including an ex girlfriend who he went out with for three years and was madly in love with[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]He let slip indirectly that I reminded him of this particular ex. One of his first emails to me said he guessed I worked in “science with writing on the side”. When I replied asking him why he would think this his reply was “because you look like a scientist.” Months later I find out his ex was a scientist and writer on the side.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]He told me he hated and wanted to kill anyone who was mean to me (weird, because later on he was pretty mean to me himself)[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]He told me I must be special because I was one of the very few people he replied to or hung out with ( he doesn’t bother with people much because of his depression)[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Let slip a couple of times indirectly that he wanted to sleep with me and had it for me rather bad, in that way[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Said and did many other things which indicated an interest/attraction towards me that he never consciously acknowledged. [/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]On my side…became increasingly aware of attraction, was very sexually attracted and found the thoughts irritating because I couldn’t act on it. Around this time the friendship was going sour. We still hung out but our talks got a little nasty – not directly, more sarcasm and such. But the big thing for me was…[/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Whenever I mentioned my feelings for him he would either: change the subject, minimise them, tell me I was crazy or ask “what in hell I was talking about”, or tell me to “shut up”. I decided that this person who was initially so sensitive and caring, was actually callous towards my feelings, and selfish in his attitude to the relationship, and very manipulative. [/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]After the leg-rubbing incident I called him on his double-speak and told him I thought sexual tension was to blame for the friendship going bad, and that we should do something about it: stop hanging out, start sleeping together, be fwb, go out if he wanted to, whatever, just something different. He didn’t respond and while we re-established contact a bit later, he had definitely cooled off on me. The last time he cancelled our plans to catch up, and I hadn’t seen him for six weeks at this point, so I deleted his number. Haven’t heard from him. [/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]What do you think? Did I get played massively? The thing I have trouble with is no closure. I don’t know if it all just meant nothing – don’t understand what happened or why, or what I’m supposed to learn from it. My instinct tells me that he really did care about me but was just operating out of fear, but then I also consider that he just didn’t care at all, and I got used. I really didn’t think he was a superficial person, but it did turn out, that he was psychologically abusive for sure.[/sIZE][/FONT]

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[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]I guess I just would like to know if anyone has ever been in a similar situation? Its certainly the weirdest relationship I’ve ever been in, and it really stirred me up at a deep level, I felt a LOT of strong feelings towards this guy, but I knew it wasn’t healthy…and now what I find hard is that I’m grieving, I miss him, and feel a sense of loss, but because we weren’t even in a real relationship, it also kind feels like that grief is invalid – I don’t know what to do with the feelings, and I can’t share them with him, because to him they aren’t real, and it seems at this point he doesn’t care anyway…[/sIZE][/FONT]

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[whichwayisup]

This friendship of yours with him is/was very unhealthy. You two got too attached to eachother, and not in a respecting and caring way. He has issues, you even saw the red flags from the beginning.

 

I honestly wouldn't try to figure this one out, as painful as this is for you, it's best to move on and not look back. He has issues and hasn't dealt with his past at all, which affects how he is now.

 

That's probably why he couldn't handle any real meaningful intimacy with you - Like it was OK as long as he was in control.

 

Keep busy, hang out with your other friends and see your family. This will help you so you don't think and miss him too much.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

What type of closure are you looking for, Sadrightnow. In other words, what does closure mean to you, knowing that there was no beginning or end to this fiasco.

 

He was never there to begin with -emotionally, psychologically, and/or romantically. I believe he created this friendship with you to merely exercise his power -manly power.

 

A person, like himself, to have gone through numerous drawbacks and struggles throughout time cannot and does not view the world in a crystal clear fashion. He abuses the situation, and deliberately runs away from the truth and people to fill the void in his life.

 

You know the friendship/quasi-relationship was not healthy. Yet, you choose to continue seeing him. Why? Because you thought you could change him. That was the mistake right there. A man -a strong one at that -can only change if he decides to change for himself, and no one else.

 

I'm sorry for your loss, but it is time to move on. If he truly wanted to be with you, he would be there right by your side in a heartbeat. With time and a little bit of maturity, on both sides, you will understand that pain and mistreatment of one another can't possibly bring two people together.

 

Maybe, just maybe, he might realize sometime down the road that he has indeed lost a great friend -if not, a companion.

 

Sand&Water

[suchislife]

I just had to respond to this. If you read my past posts, you will find a very similar situation and you are right, it is like grieving...

 

We were just like the 2 of you, only at the end when he cut me off, I let him know exactly what I thought of him. I don't know if he ever knew what I said, because he would not pick up his phone, so I emailed, left voice mails and just got it all out.

 

We have a mutual friend and he described exactly what the writers have been saying. This guy has not dealt with his problems and he will do this over and over again until he does. I found out from this friend, who thought I knew about him dating someone and NEVER knew we were so close because he never told him, that he is now dating a Princess, just like his previous relationships, and this one won't work either. On top of it, she has not ended her relationship with her pre-fiance, whatever that is, so she is two timing the guy I liked. But, you know what, they probably both know they are not in it for the long term. I didn't say anything to the mutual friend. I'm out of it.

 

You put it exactly the way I felt. I have never been in such a wierd relationship in my whole life. We know so much about each other and he is pretending to our mutual friend we were never that close. What a flake!! It has been really, really hard to get through. And even the part where he will realize some day what a friend he lost is also exactly what my friends have said.

 

I am still not 100%, and I still miss our friendship, but I am also relived that I don't have to live every day wondering when and if we would have a real relationship. This isn't about being a man. This is about being so insecure that it becomes a control thing, and yes, my instincts told me he really, really liked me. He just knew when the time came that he could no longer control me, and then he dropped me, although he was contacting me every day for 5 hours a day. It has been like going thru withdrawl, and then he has lied to everyone how close we were. Fortunately, people know me and know I wouldn't make something like that up, and they know he has been caught in lies about other things, so I think people believe me, and even if they didn't, I'm trusting my gut on this one.

 

He is going to get very hurt by this woman. I don't wish it on him, but it's going to happen. Some people like to punish themselves I guess.

 

Good luck and soon you will start to live in the real world again where people don't live by texting and sabatoging and being very mean.

[Yamaha]

This friendship of yours with him is/was very unhealthy. You two got too attached to eachother, and not in a respecting and caring way. He has issues, you even saw the red flags from the beginning.

 

I honestly wouldn't try to figure this one out, as painful as this is for you, it's best to move on and not look back. He has issues and hasn't dealt with his past at all, which affects how he is now.

 

That's probably why he couldn't handle any real meaningful intimacy with you - Like it was OK as long as he was in control.

 

Keep busy, hang out with your other friends and see your family. This will help you so you don't think and miss him too much.

 

 

Word........

[sadrightnow]

Thanks all for the replies..

 

Wow, you know I did think at times it was all about control on his part, but its weird to hear it confirmed by other people. I feel a bit saner now! Like he's been trying to make me think I'm crazy but now I get a reality check!

 

suchislife, its exactly as you said (and I did read some of your other posts). When I brought the reality of the situation right before him, he dropped me like a sack of sh*t! He needed to construct the situation and condition me to see it in a light that worked to his benefit, but which left me screwed. pardon my French...and all the texting, it is a means of control. And silence too. I was always really baffled by his texting behaviour. Like he would sometimes not reply to me for several days, but then, one time, after I had left him completely alone for a couple of weeks, I texted him and he texted RIGHT back, straight away. What does that tell you!

The last time I texted him to see if he was "reading me" (something I did to see if it was worth my while typing out a long message because he may or may not be attending to his phone), he replied shortly after. Then I replied suggesting we meet up that night - after we hadn't seen each other for six weeks - I get a reply at like 8pm, many hours later, "soreee, I was really down today and sleeping it off. Anyway, back to sulking". Bullcrap. He sat there for the afternoon trying to decide what to do, decided in the end he couldn't face me, and sent me a lamo excuse for his goodbye message! That was when I decided he was really a jerk and deleted his number. And I think he knew when he sent me that message it was going to be the end for me, so obviously at that point at least, he didn't care. But what a weak note to end things on.

 

That's what I mean about closure: instead of ending things on a weak note like that, he could have just said "i'm sorry, I can't deal, let's call it a day." That would have been HONEST. And much less dismissive and disrespectful. But you're right, I couldn't expect that from him from the beginning, even though he said things which sent me down the garden path, making me think he actually cared about me.

 

I feel like he poured out on me all his anger towards other people in his past. In a very covert, passive-aggressive way. I'd like to tell him that he hurt me, and I hope he's satisfied. Maybe one day I will...that would be my closure...but right now its no contact for as long as I can do it. I don't have his number now, so I can't text or call him. Still have his email though, but I won't be using it unless its to tell him what I think.

 

This is especially hard for me, because this is the first guy I've cared about since my fiancee left me for another woman - that was beginning of last year. Sheesh...seems I never learn...

 

Thanks everybody...

[suchislife]

I'm telling you, other than a few minor differences, I could have written this thread. That whole thing about asking to get together, and he doesn't let you know til late - ditto!

 

He couldn't face you, was afraid you would end up not liking him, and once he realized you were wising up, he moved on.

 

I decided if I couldn't figure this out after 3 months, I wasn't going to, and it's too wierd for me. I'm pretty smart and have guy friends that I've asked, and they all said the same thing. No one, NO ONE would spend months on a relationship, having an HIV test, texting morning, noon and night, unless he was interested in a relationship, OR has issues. This guy has issues and it will trickle over to the next person too.

 

This is what I'm doing. I'm taking care of myself, being happy, doing things with friends...and coming to the point where I am really glad I don't have to guess every day what is going on.

 

This is someone who can't have real intimacy. Whatever. You'll meet someone who can and it will be much better and worth the time. Trust me, he already knows what he lost - he will keep running though - as long as he can, so he doesn't have to face it.

 

This guy is with someone who just might go to the bosses if he messes with her. I'm glad I wont' be around to see it. It might cost him his job, and he knows this, and this is so not my problem. If he could have tried to at least remain friends, I would have been ok with it, and probably would have warned him about "Princess". But, since he isn't acknowledging my existence, he is on his own.

 

Enough said. Each day will get better.

[sadrightnow]

The thing that gets me...the closest he ever came to really admitting his feelings for me was during a text spat we had a few weeks before the final curtain. He had said some nasty things, vaguely comparing me to ex girlfriends who did him wrong (oh, but we weren't even going out!) . I said "I can't believe you think I'm like your other girls. Young and crazy is your usual ticket, by sounds of it. And less cynical." (he usu. goes out with young girls with personality disorders and you, know, a bit "princessy" as you say). He replied, "Hah, if I went for young and crazy and not cynical, my life would be a lot easier."

When I ran this by a couple of friends, they said "well, he's saying he likes you, but its YOUR fault and he wants no part of it." And general opinion was, it was also a very NASTY thing to say. I waa flabbergasted at how he changed. He was SO sweet in the beginning.

 

"and coming to the point where I am really glad I don't have to guess every day what is going on. "

 

I have to say, despite the pain I'm in, that's been the absolute best thing about the past week. NOT waiting to hear the beep on my phone. NOT thinking about texting him. KNOWING I don't have to deal with the daily anxiety anymore.

 

I tell, you I've been like a madwoman for the past six months. I barely thought about anything else. That was the affect he had on me. Now, its like a fog lifting...not happy, but at least I'm sort of ME again. I swear, it was like he controlled my mind.

 

Anyway, good to know there is light at the end of the tunnell...things will get easier. If they did for you, they will for me.

[suchislife]

The last thing he text me was, "If you made more of this than friendship, you hurt yourself." Oh really? Then why was HE initiating all the texts - and texting me first for the last month we knew each other? Listen, it's his issue. I know what you mean, not doing good but at least not wondering. Soon, you will notice you think less and less about it, and yes, I was wondering if I had lost my marbles too. I haven't.

[suchislife]

Hey there,

 

I got closure today. Every once in a while, I'd said a friendly text, have a great weekend, etc. No innuendo, just friendly and to the point. This morning, I got a response...

 

"Could you please stop messaging. I haven't responded in months and i don't intend to."

 

Well, we have mutual friends, work for the same company and will see each other. I just wanted to patch things up enough to be human.

 

Someone doesn't like that I can be happy with or without him. Here's the bottom line. I called back. absolutely no worries about him answering since he doesn't with anyone - and just said hey, I had no idea you didn't want me to text you - you could have told me 3 months ago and I would have stopped then. We do have mutual friends, I've been invited to the same social functions and we may end up working in the same building - we were friends for quite a while and nothing came of it, so I was just trying to get to the point where we could be nice to each other.

 

I was very nice and calm and know that he could have been a lot nicer than he was.

 

Angry, angry, angry. and it has nothing to do with me. my friends can't believe he was so nasty - but, then again, the whole thing was very strange. No one is angry or thinks less of me, including his one and only friend, and I was a class act. Seriously, he could have told me this months ago and it would have been ok.

 

It takes all kinds.

[sadrightnow]

What a jerk.

 

And may I ask (and this is what I would say to my "friend" if we were still talking) WHY, if it was just a friendship, is there any need to be angry?? And why, if it was just a friendship, aren't you friends now??

 

I haven't heard from my "friend", and I don't really expect to. I haven't contacted him either. I do know, if I was him, I would be feeling really awful right now, and be feeling the need to make amends, say sorry, or something.

 

After us being so close, and hanging out just about every weekend for 6 months, he cuts me off without a word of explanation or even acknowledging that's what's happening. I think I'm supposed to just interpet this as a "natural" fade-out...you know the kind that happens with friends sometimes?? Bullcrap...

 

I have some things of his. I've thought of emailing him to say I'll post them back if he wants, but screw that. He can get in touch with me if he wants them. I'd love to hear what he has to say for himself!

[suchislife]

Well, exactly. Why would he be so angry if there wasn't anything there? Please... On top of it, he's probably angry that I can handle being just friends, and he isn't ready.

 

The thing is, he hasn't just burned bridges with me, he has with our mutual friends. It's his issue, not mine. I just tried to be the grown up because we will see each other.

 

No tears, a little down, but I would be with anyone who sent me that kind of text. I've never had anyone do that to me. In other relationships, work, personal, friends, usually we have all tried to be cordial...

 

I'm not afraid of my own feelings and I'm not angry. The sun is shining, it's going to be a beautiful day and life is good.

 

Don't worry about his stuff. Get rid of it if you wish. It's baggage, now.

 

Keep smiling.