does your MM/MW still sleep with their partner?

[bridget_jones]

bj, i do not think MM should be free of moral expectations from their OW. some MM and OW have very good relationships, respectful and trusting relationships.

 

Still disagreeing. At the same time they are having these relationships with OW,they are still lying and deceiving their wives.

These women you speak of may believe they are in trusting relationships, but they really will *never* be able to trust him fully. Because they have the capability of lying and deceiving, that will always be there.

I am speaking as someone who is friends with a couple where they began as her as the OW and him as the MM. They have been married for 10 years now, but I know that deep down, he has the capability of cheating on her. Yes you see them and socialize with them, they're nice people and seem to be trusting and loving, but he will always have the ability to stray deep down. She puts on weight, they get in a bad patch of their marriage, he meets an intriguing woman at work who tempts him...I like the guy, he's generally a good person and extremely intelligent...it's just the fact that he cheated once...he has it in him to lie and deceive a partner again.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

IWWH, OMG, we should PM each other with our exes first names because it sounds like we married the same serial cheater.

 

Don't forget the "kill" portion too. It was all a fantasy because he could be anyone he wanted to be and the OW would accept it, believing that it was the real him.

 

 

LOL, mine isn't an X! But THESE men are all the same whatever their names may be!

[sadbuttrue]

bj, i think the capability of cheating is probably there in everyone. it does not signify that just because someone cheats once they will do it again. not all cheaters are serial cheaters. just like not all killers are serial killers. i admit that i would be afraid that once he cheated he might cheat again, but i would not automatically assume this.

 

and i was referring to the MM and OW relationship. obviously the MM's R with his W is not trusting.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

my MM has said that he and his wife had just drifted apart. he has never denied that he continues to have sex with her. i have never specifically asked either. the only thing he has mentioned in relation to her sexually is that he is not as attracted to her as he is to me. of course you can all say that this too is a lie, but it really doesnt matter. he is getting something from me that he needs at this moment in his life and i want to give it to him. i know we can not go on in this manner forever, but for now i have resigned myself to this.

 

 

Well, being more attracted to you shows how he views commitment. He found something he was more attracted to? He admits this to you but you never wonder if there is ANYONE whom he may be more attracted to that you? What you failed to mention and what I didn't bring up because I was focusing more on the MM than the OW, is that you need what he brings to the table just as much. You need the fantasy he is feeding you. And the fact that he tells you that he is more attracted to you(which is probably very true) and that fills you up, in my opinion is a perfect example. I'm not trying to be judgemental or argumentative, it just completes the fantasy. (OK, I couldn't resist the smile, it's a joke as well as the wrong thread)

[reservoirdog1]

Among the many things I don't get about adultery, this is one of them. What if the MM/MW is still sleeping with their spouse? Even occasionally? Is the OP really okay with playing around where the MM/MW's spouse's genitalia have been, sometimes only hours earlier? Or do you just force yourself not to think about it?

 

In my case, XW was screwing around shortly after our wedding, when our sex life was at its peak in terms of frequency. Her OM must've known, when f*cking XW, that he was often sticking his dyck where I'd blown my wad the night before... Guess the sick f*cker liked sloppy seconds.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

and i was referring to the MM and OW relationship. obviously the MM's R with his W is not trusting.

 

Well its the PERSON who cannot be trusted, not the relationship. You would allow a theif to housesit for you because you believe he only robs banks? Its about CHARACTER honey.

[bridget_jones]

bj, i think the capability of cheating is probably there in everyone. it does not signify that just because someone cheats once they will do it again. not all cheaters are serial cheaters. just like not all killers are serial killers. i admit that i would be afraid that once he cheated he might cheat again, but i would not automatically assume this.

 

and i was referring to the MM and OW relationship. obviously the MM's R with his W is not trusting.

 

If they are capable of having a not trusting relationship with his wife, he is capable of having a not trusting relationship with his OW.

I stand by my advice to OWs....if you expect to hold a MM to any moral expectations on your part (i.e. not sleeping with his wife & expecting that everything he says is the truth), then you should not embark on an A with a MM. It surprises me that OWs would even be concerned or ponder if he's sleeping with his wife or not.or that it would bother you at all.

[bridget_jones]

Among the many things I don't get about adultery, this is one of them. What if the MM/MW is still sleeping with their spouse? Even occasionally? Is the OP really okay with playing around where the MM/MW's spouse's genitalia have been, sometimes only hours earlier? Or do you just force yourself not to think about it?

 

In my case, XW was screwing around shortly after our wedding, when our sex life was at its peak in terms of frequency. Her OM must've known, when f*cking XW, that he was often sticking his dyck where I'd blown my wad the night before... Guess the sick f*cker liked sloppy seconds.

 

I'm sorry you experienced this.

I have to admit that is what goes through my mind, too, about affairs. As far as I know, I have not been cheated on, but the thought of that....gross.

[Trialbyfire]

i am sorry trailbyfire, i wasnt even thinking about the betrayed spouse (classic OW i guess) and what pain they must feel if they know about the OW. i would imagine it would be much worse for the W to think of their husband with the OW. these men are selfish, but i can not believe that they do not have some sort of difficulty going between two women.

I owe you an apology sadbuttrue. I was so focused elsewhere that I didn't acknowledge your apology. That was rude of me.

 

And it was okay. That's part of the beauty of a thread like this. For both sides to see the other side a little more clearly.

[serial muse]

I know that a lot of MM in A still have sex with their wives and I never meant to come off like that isn't happening. I'm just saying that instances of the MM getting sex 7 days a week and still having an A seem like they should be rare.

 

If a man is having sex 7 days a week at home is it really a power trip that pushes him somewhere else? Sure he could be trying to boost his ego but it could be that the sex is great but something else is seriously lacking. One of my male friends has been having an A for months. (He's been married for almost 5 years.) He has sex with his W 5 or 6 times a week but says that they have nothing in common and nothing to talk about so thats all they do. Have sex. He's lonely.

 

I agree that men can be egotistical, arrogant, selfish bastards that are only out for a piece. I think that people need to agree that not all men having an A are that kind of person. Some men actually want love, affection, and that connection that is lost. Real relationships with communication and interest in each others lives.

 

That's my experience with MM. They're more lonely than they are horny.

 

 

I agree that there are multiple situations and it's going to vary from person to person. However, I also think that, on the whole, it's not necessarily about being lonely so much as about asserting power. I think there can be a big passive-aggressive aspect to having an affair.

 

In my situation, we had lots in common and it wasn't that we didn't share ourselves with each other. We were best friends and yeah, the sex was hot too. But he admitted to me, later, that a lot of the issue for him was that I was in a high-profile grad school program and my career was kind of taking off, and he felt, well...inadequate. The girl he cheated on me with was barely legal and he could basically feel like he was dominating her in a way he didn't feel with me. An age-old story, really. He was asserting his "manliness," I suppose.

 

You can imagine how this screwed me up, by the way. Fortunately, I had already graduated when he told me this, but of course I immediately blamed myself for wanting to pursue higher education and have a career. He and I both blamed me. It took me a year of therapy and punishing myself by floundering around living at home doing work unrelated to what I really wanted before I began to understand that the problem was his insecurities with himself, rather than me. A year, people.

 

So what I'm saying is, the thing about loneliness is only one possibility. I think that my story is actually pretty common - a lot of times, a man who is insecure about his own power and lacks self-confidence will seek outside reassurance in the form of another woman to make him feel good about himself. There was an implicit punishment of me in his actions as well. Sometimes, though, it isn't fundamentally about the betrayed spouse's issues or about a basic relationship incompatibility and estrangement - and OW who are with MM really should pay closer attention to that. Sometimes, he's got a problem that he can't admit to, whether it's a deep-seated insecurity about his power in the world or a simple need for constant reassurance from multiple women that he's still "got it."

 

Ironically, I think she was planning to go to law school. If they're still together, I just wonder how that'll work out. Also, I met her a number of times (without knowing what was going on) and she was kind of like a younger, unformed version of me. Which I don't think was at all an accident. Heh.

[feathers]

But we had sex 4-5 times a week, and it was mutual pursuit - about half the time I initiated, about half the time he did. He also told her that we never did anything together, though whenever I wasn't working we were always together and also took vacations all over the place, including two cruises during the course of his affair. He even told her at one point that we weren't living together anymore. The lies he told the woman were unreal, and the fact the she believed all of them was just as unreal.

[lrae]

Good for you, Serial Muse - you sound like you are in a good place now. The year floundering? Not so good - but pretty normal.

 

Affairs are hurtful. As the MW - discovery of a cheating H makes us second guess our every action and emotion (during the marriage and after) when all too often it's the spouse's frailty we should question.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

It took me a year of therapy and punishing myself by floundering around living at home doing work unrelated to what I really wanted before I began to understand that the problem was his insecurities with himself, rather than me. A year, people.

 

Two years for me with no therapy. Everyday thinking I had to fix it and feeling like a failure when I couldn't. Even sleep was no escape as I would wake up in a panic and a sweat during every cycle.

[serial muse]

Good for you, Serial Muse - you sound like you are in a good place now. The year floundering? Not so good - but pretty normal.

 

Affairs are hurtful. As the MW - discovery of a cheating H makes us second guess our every action and emotion (during the marriage and after) when all too often it's the spouse's frailty we should question.

 

thanks. it's really been a journey for me, but i do feel like i'm in a much better place. and i'm proud of my accomplishments again, which is a big deal.

 

Two years for me with no therapy. Everyday thinking I had to fix it and feeling like a failure when I couldn't. Even sleep was no escape as I would wake up in a panic and a sweat during every cycle.

 

i hear you - the loss of sleep was one of the most frustrating parts of the whole ordeal! i still don't sleep as soundly as i used to, and i don't know if i ever will.

 

although maybe i'm just getting old.

[Trialbyfire]

Well done ladies. It's a trip through hell, isn't it?

[silktricks]

{snip}

it's not necessarily about being lonely so much as about asserting power. I think there can be a big passive-aggressive aspect to having an affair.

 

{snip}

he felt, well...inadequate. The girl he cheated on me with was barely legal and he could basically feel like he was dominating her in a way he didn't feel with me. An age-old story, really. He was asserting his "manliness," I suppose.

{snip}

 

So what I'm saying is, the thing about loneliness is only one possibility. I think that my story is actually pretty common - a lot of times, a man who is insecure about his own power and lacks self-confidence will seek outside reassurance in the form of another woman to make him feel good about himself. There was an implicit punishment of me in his actions as well.

 

I think that this is a very common story, it is certainly similar to my own. By the time my husband informed me of his affair (it was already over) he had also spent some time working through a few of his "why's". For the most part, the reason for my H's affair was because of his feelings of inadequacy and failure.

 

I am successful in my chosen field, a field which he formerly was in but chose to leave. He has not had as much success in his own eyes. (I always considered him a success.) He was also exceedingly angry with me. Partly because I didn't also leave the field when he did, I'm quite sure. I think in some ways he saw that as a desertion on my part. Since he felt bad about himself it became easier to believe that I had "deserted" him.

 

He chose to have an affair with a woman who was - to use his word - stupid. A woman that he would never have been interested in long term.

 

I do consider myself fortunate, however, that my husband realized the error of his ways and terminated the affair himself. Since, it's end he has worked very hard to remedy our problems and show himself to be trustworthy. It's been a long painful road, but we've made a lot of progress.

 

SM, I'm glad that you have recovered from your pain. I hope you've also recovered joy in your life. It sounds like you are no longer with your husband. If that's so, then I hope that when you are again with someone that they treat you with honesty and as the treasure you are.

[herenow]

In my year of therapy I learned that in my case (and in most cases) my H's affair was not about me or the OW. It was about him and what he was lacking within himself. I spent the first few months of therapy convinced that there was something wrong with me or something lacking in our marriage.

 

It's true that after years of marriage and a couple of kids, we had both neglected some of the intimacy that we had when we first fell in love. But nothing that couldn't be fixed had we acknowledged it. We still had sex and it didn't matter to my H that he was having sex with the OW, he still had the same amount of sex with me. He was able to compartmentalize the affair. When he left her and came home, she (in his words) was nonexistent. I would imagine that it worked both ways, and he certainly wasn't thinking about me when he was with her.

 

OW ask why it's so easy for the MM to end the affair after D-day and then pick it up again after (as they say) the dust settles. It's possible to work on a marriage long enough for things to settle, but if the MM doesn't address and work on himself, the problem is still there. As long as there is something lacking in the MM he will look for something to fill the hole.

 

It's easy to go back to what he already knows, but in most cases, it has nothing to do with who the OW is. These MM will do and say whatever it takes to get their fix. It's all about them and their needs. The OW fills the needs of the MM and he tells her what she wants to hear in order to keep it going. If that means that he has to tell the OW that he no longer has sex with his wife, so be it.

[puddleofmud]

Great post; certainly well said!

 

In my year of therapy I learned that in my case (and in most cases) my H's affair was not about me or the OW. It was about him and what he was lacking within himself. I spent the first few months of therapy convinced that there was something wrong with me or something lacking in our marriage.

 

It's true that after years of marriage and a couple of kids, we had both neglected some of the intimacy that we had when we first fell in love. But nothing that couldn't be fixed had we acknowledged it. We still had sex and it didn't matter to my H that he was having sex with the OW, he still had the same amount of sex with me. He was able to compartmentalize the affair. When he left her and came home, she (in his words) was nonexistent. I would imagine that it worked both ways, and he certainly wasn't thinking about me when he was with her.

 

OW ask why it's so easy for the MM to end the affair after D-day and then pick it up again after (as they say) the dust settles. It's possible to work on a marriage long enough for things to settle, but if the MM doesn't address and work on himself, the problem is still there. As long as there is something lacking in the MM he will look for something to fill the hole.

 

It's easy to go back to what he already knows, but in most cases, it has nothing to do with who the OW is. These MM will do and say whatever it takes to get their fix. It's all about them and their needs. The OW fills the needs of the MM and he tells her what she wants to hear in order to keep it going. If that means that he has to tell the OW that he no longer has sex with his wife, so be it.

[puddleofmud]

I would think that the male mind-set of "compartmentalization" should be a very notable factor in affairs, and more especially regarding sex.

I am not sure the exact nature of this mind-set but it would seem that men are much better at this?

Where as most women perceive no division?

This is a fascinating and aged wonderment...where women have what may be seen as different values and those values seem to be more pervasive in their inherent natures...and men may have the same values but allow themselves to compartmentalize these values but not particularly their ACTIONS.

One can't help but wonder why a man needs one woman who is "committed" to him and fulfills certain needs--or more importantly does fulfill ALL he needs, yet selfishly still needs the attention of others all the while convincing his self that by keeping any and all in a "box" in his head won't affect either. Nor does he accept his responsibilty in what he willingly and too often, artfully, creates.

This seems an inexcusable, immature and ludicrous behavior!

Yet, so many men seem to operate with this compartmental behavior and we as women tend to perhaps accept the status quo.

Though I am a feminist at heart I often say: "no use complaining about what men "do" as WE birth them, raise them, marry them, and we @##* them" (not in that order).

Are we as women too passive about the status quo?

 

Sex occurs and may be twenty times a week or not at all but have no bearing on what an ego-centered partner may compartmentalize within their ego-driven need and/ or want(s).

Ego gravitates to one or the other, and are inter-changable at will.

However, ego always tends to stay where it is more comfortable.

Men have been historically ego-fed as we currently operate in a mostly male dominated society.

 

Some do learn better through their mistakes, through counseling and because they do care about their values and love for their spouses and families.

Props to those who do and sad for those who don't.

 

With this said: SEX is probably not a good barometer of either.

[Trialbyfire]

Well said pom, especially about the immaturity, egocentric and compartmentalizing portions.

 

Sex is not a good barometer but appears to be the age-old excuse for the uncommitted man.

[bridget_jones]

bj, i think the capability of cheating is probably there in everyone.

 

I can safely say that it is not there for me and I know people where the capacity is not there, either.

 

But of course, you're an OW so you need to grasp at things in order to believe your MM is trustworthy and your relationship with him is "special." I advise you to do as I say, take him for what he is and have no moral expections of him, you just can't do that as an OW. He doesn't have them for you, either. I haven't been cheated on (at least not to my knowledge) and I am rational enough to understand this.

[outofdarkness]

Does your MM/MW still sleep (as in having sex) with their partner?

 

Do you consider that as acceptable? After all they are still married.

 

If your MM/MW told you initially that he/she is not having sex with their partner anymore but now they started again, would you consider that as cheating?

 

I read a couple of posts where the MM is still having sex with his wife and it does not seem to be a big issue with the OW. I guess a MM has to have sex with his wife, otherwise she will get suspicious, right?

My H and I didn't have sex for two years due to an illness on my part, but other then that, yes we always did..He TOLD the OW's that he wasn't of course, but those were lies too. And..yes, the main 10 year OW considered it to be "cheating" on her. after all, she was what one wise LS person referred to as his "shadow wife"...

[IfWishesWereHorses]

OOD,

 

What is a shadow wife?

[outofdarkness]

OOD,

 

What is a shadow wife?

Well..LadyJane says it is what my H had...A LONG term A w/ OW that includes emotional, physical, everything that he would share w/ me, including all info and decisions, etc. regarding our kids...In his case, it lasted 10 years. The other OW's were either one night stands or short term.

[bigblueeyes]

C'mon, If the cheater was unable to be honest in thier marriage, how could you expect them to be honest in the affair?

 

The belief that your affair partner is no longer sleeping with thier spouse or that they are trapped in a sexless marriage or that she constantly rejects and denies him is ludicrous.

 

"He sleeps with her but thinks of me". Sorry Bigblueeyes, you sound kinda nice but that is the most delusional thing I've ever heard. Ultimately he or she is thinking only of themselves!!

 

That was actually a joke, but I guess humour doesn't always translate