Sufferings is result of our sins?

[Love Hurts]

How your tune has now changed.

 

I too look forward to Moai's response to this and your other posts.

 

So now -- just to set the record straight:

 

1. You have in no uncertain terms called him, his father, and his whole family "losers".

 

2. First you assumed he was female but while bashing you found out he is male. So then you clearly stated you feel he must be homosexual.

 

3. And then reign in your judgment of all of his family and state that he must be the "black sheep" of his family.

 

All the while never restraining yourself from these attacks nor apologizing for your childish insults.

 

Then you "boast" -- something your God finds distasteful and tells you NOT to do -- that your family is filled with believers.

 

Careful:

 

2 Nephi 28

 

28:3 For it shall come to pass in that day that the churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, when the one shall say unto the other: Behold, I, I am the Lord's; and the others shall say: I, I am the Lord's; and thus shall every one say that hath built up churches, and not unto the Lord --

 

28:4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning, and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance.

 

28:5 And they deny the power of God, the Holy One of Israel; and they say unto the people: Hearken unto us, and hear ye our precept; for behold there is no God today, for the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men;

 

28:6 Behold, hearken ye unto my precept; if they shall say there is a miracle wrought by the hand of the Lord, believe it not; for this day he is not a God of miracles; he hath done his work.

 

28:9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

 

28:10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.

 

28:11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted.

 

28:12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

 

28:12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

 

28:13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.

 

28:14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

 

I most definitely did say these things.

I like to run a sphere through and see what comes out.

 

I can toot the horn of my family as a whole … if one is so great another will boast for you.

And so I did for a family as a group.

 

You know God fearing parents have a responsibility to bring their children to the Lord. Mine worked on that...and did accomplish.

 

We are great people.. I just love us and God does too.

[Island Girl]

I most definitely did say these things.

I like to run a sphere through and see what comes out.

 

Judgment, pious, derogatory, bigoted, name calling, and childish behavior.

 

Glad to see you are so proud of it.

 

I can toot the horn of my family as a whole … if one is so great another will boast for you.

And so I did for a family as a group.

 

God has never discerned that boasting in any way was a wanted behavior and you know it.

 

Justify as much as you want "He knows all"...heh heh heh

 

According to your beliefs you are going against doctrine.

 

You know God fearing parents have a responsibility to bring their children to the Lord. Mine worked on that...and did accomplish.

 

We are great people.. I just love us and God does too.

 

I thought the word is there for everyone - not just children of the "saved"?

 

Aren't you double talking? This is opposite of what you have said up until approximately page 19 of this thread.

 

The Holy Spirit lives in us all -- isn't that what LB said? So didn't the Holy Spirit fail in remaining strong?

 

How is it the parents fault if the child later in life when out on his own seeks and finds another answer?

 

At what point does it become the adult's responsibility?

 

By your own admission, you were a lost soul wandering the world without a clue.

 

You had to seek for yourself. So your parents failed with you but you made it right again?

 

Does that clear their failure?

 

And you have failed here on LS. I haven't seen you help anyone become saved. In fact one post today was directly to your tactics of degradation and bashing turned away at least one who had come here to read.

 

So you failed. It is a constant occurance - your failure in this way -- is it not?

 

You said someone who fails is a loser.

 

I think I just came to another realization... I must admit I had thought it before but I hadn't the confirmation yet that I could say I am right.

 

I know I now have that. Thanks!

[lonelybird]

The Holy Spirit lives in us all -- isn't that what LB said? So didn't the Holy Spirit fail in remaining strong?

 

How is it the parents fault if the child later in life when out on his own seeks and finds another answer?

 

At what point does it become the adult's responsibility?

 

If you have Holy Spirit in you, but you don't obey HIM, it is like you don't have HIM in the first place.

When become the adult's responsibility? when you can choose. You have Bible, have Holy Spirit, but you reject them all. How can you expect Holy Spirit instruct you?

[Island Girl]

If you have Holy Spirit in you, but you don't obey HIM, it is like you don't have HIM in the first place.

When become the adult's responsibility? when you can choose. You have Bible, have Holy Spirit, but you reject them all. How can you expect Holy Spirit instruct you?

 

You didn't make the statements I am referring to.

 

I am asking the original poster, LH, because she made the statements and judgments.

 

I appreciate your reply - although you are not qualified to answer this one.

 

LH is the only one who can speak to LHs own words.

 

By the way - she back slapped you in the process of freaking out earlier.

 

Regardless of our differing view about religion - I myself have no tolerance for racial slurs.

 

But she said she isn't going to apologize and I am taking that to mean she is not going to apologize to anyone including you although I, and others, think she should.

[lonelybird]

You didn't make the statements I am referring to.

 

I am asking the original poster, LH, because she made the statements and judgments.

 

I appreciate your reply - although you are not qualified to answer this one.

 

LH is the only one who can speak to LHs own words.

 

By the way - she back slapped you in the process of freaking out earlier.

 

Regardless of our differing view about religion - I myself have no tolerance for racial slurs.

 

But she said she isn't going to apologize and I am taking that to mean she is not going to apologize to anyone including you although I, and others, think she should.

I don't think she back slapped me. by the way we all can make mistakes. why don't you tolerate ?

[Love Hurts]

Judgment, pious, derogatory, bigoted, name calling, and childish behavior.

 

Glad to see you are so proud of it.

 

 

 

God has never discerned that boasting in any way was a wanted behavior and you know it.

 

Justify as much as you want "He knows all"...heh heh heh

 

According to your beliefs you are going against doctrine.

 

 

 

I thought the word is there for everyone - not just children of the "saved"?

 

Aren't you double talking? This is opposite of what you have said up until approximately page 19 of this thread.

 

The Holy Spirit lives in us all -- isn't that what LB said? So didn't the Holy Spirit fail in remaining strong?

 

How is it the parents fault if the child later in life when out on his own seeks and finds another answer?

 

At what point does it become the adult's responsibility?

 

By your own admission, you were a lost soul wandering the world without a clue.

 

You had to seek for yourself. So your parents failed with you but you made it right again?

 

Does that clear their failure?

 

And you have failed here on LS. I haven't seen you help anyone become saved. In fact one post today was directly to your tactics of degradation and bashing turned away at least one who had come here to read.

 

So you failed. It is a constant occurance - your failure in this way -- is it not?

 

You said someone who fails is a loser.

 

I think I just came to another realization... I must admit I had thought it before but I hadn't the confirmation yet that I could say I am right.

 

I know I now have that. Thanks!

 

If my parents are saved and there children are not what happened?

If I am saved and my children are not … what happened?

Our priority is in our own home first. Get ours in line and then we look at the world.

How sad to save the world and loose our own to Satan.

Its our responsibility to teach our own and bring them into the fold.

I’m not saying we cannot pick up others along lifes way but lets not forsake our own.

My conscience should be pricked if I let one of mine own to wolves.

 

Does the call of Loooooooooser prick the wayward son and condemn his father of fault for loosing his child? Does the son wonder how he lost his way? Was the father a looooser? Were the fathers teachings correct and the son wants nothing to do with them?

Moai knows for certain… the answer to this one.

 

You sound like a big whimpering baby.

Stop snibling … grow up. Get your toes stepped on hell is much worse than I could ever be.

[Island Girl]

I don't think she back slapped me. by the way we all can make mistakes. why don't you tolerate ?

 

I am quite tolerant.

 

That is the point.

 

I do not separate people by race, religion, ethnicity, etc.

 

And I truly believe no one should.

 

I believe each person should be accountable for his or her own actions

 

Where I see instances of racism or bigotry I do speak up.

 

I speak so that the injured will know they are not alone and the injurer will know they are not surrounded by like minds.

 

Silence about these things is viewed too often as acceptance.

 

When I see them I am not silent nor will I ever be.

 

I make it known it is unacceptable to me.

[lonelybird]

Love Hurts

Can I PM you?

[boshemia]

Religious discussions always remind me of dueling banjos... point, counter-point, point, counter-point. I've always referred to it as dueling bibles, but that's just me.

 

My only question is... what is the point of this discussion? As Christians we are called to witness, which in essence is showing Christ's love to those who are not saved. At which point was the love of Christ being shown to the non-believers? At the point someone pronounces that the non-believer will burn in hell?

 

Someone mentioned that doing good deeds in the absence of Christ is self-righteousness. When the dictionary defines the word as

1. Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic.

2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks.

3. Holier than thou.

 

YOU are the representitive of the Christian faith, and even I don't like to be put in the same group of people who call themselves Christians yet show nothing of the love of Christ. I remember the EXACT moment my affiliation with the church came into question.

 

I was watching the funeral of Matthew Sheppard on television and I saw all of the people protesting. Signs displayed saying "God hates fags" and I remember sitting back and saying whoa? Aren't we supposed to be ministering to this family, homosexual or not, they just lost a loved one in a truly horrific way and the image the public sees of us is nothing but hate. It made me truly sad, and it made me ask questions that the church had no answers for.

 

It was the self-righteous attitudes of those in the church that drove myself and many like me out of the church. It made me question everything I had ever been taught, and everything I ever believed.

 

It was comments like human "suffering is a result of our sins" that caused me and others like me great pain. It drove me to be less concerned with the tree I was branching out from and more concerned with the fruits of that tree.

 

I hate calling myself a Christian, because it lumps me into a group of people that were able to show me nothing of Christ's love. Christ told me that faith, hope, and love remained... and the greatest of these was love. I took him at his word, when I have nothing else I hold these words as my hope.

 

The bible mentions the word love nearly 700 times, sin only appears about 450 times. Hate less that 150 times, Punishment only 60 times... yet is only believed to refer to homosexuality 9 times. That tells me personally that God intended to place a greater focus on loving one another than condemning one another.

 

Conversations like this one never fail to bring a great sadness to me, so much so that I usually avoid them altogether. How are we to show others the love of Christ when our words are so full of hate?

[lonelybird]

I am quite tolerant.

 

That is the point.

 

I do not separate people by race, religion, ethnicity, etc.

 

And I truly believe no one should.

 

I believe each person should be accountable for his or her own actions

 

Where I see instances of racism or bigotry I do speak up.

 

I speak so that the injured will know they are not alone and the injurer will know they are not surrounded by like minds.

 

Silence about these things is viewed too often as acceptance.

 

When I see them I am not silent nor will I ever be.

 

I make it known it is unacceptable to me.

How did preaching good news injure others? How did preaching hope injure others? how did preaching purity in act injure others?

[lonelybird]

I hate calling myself a Christian, because it lumps me into a group of people that were able to show me nothing of Christ's love.

You know that call yourself Christian means you faith in Jesus, not faith in the people. People are human beings who are capable of good and bad.

 

I hope you focus on bright side

[Island Girl]

If my parents are saved and there children are not what happened?

If I am saved and my children are not … what happened?

Our priority is in our own home first. Get ours in line and then we look at the world.

How sad to save the world and loose our own to Satan.

Its our responsibility to teach our own and bring them into the fold.

I’m not saying we cannot pick up others along lifes way but lets not forsake our own.

My conscience should be pricked if I let one of mine own to wolves.

 

Does the call of Loooooooooser prick the wayward son and condemn his father of fault for loosing his child? Does the son wonder how he lost his way? Was the father a looooser? Were the fathers teachings correct and the son wants nothing to do with them?

Moai knows for certain… the answer to this one.

 

You sound like a big whimpering baby.

Stop snibling … grow up. Get your toes stepped on hell is much worse than I could ever be.

 

How petty you are being!

 

And so audacious! I sound like a whimpering baby? Have you read through your Freak Out passages in the pages after 19? Do you realize how they sound to others?

 

C'mon. Really.

 

Moai will answer what you have leveled against him -- the personal attacks that may or may not be true. He is a well versed intelligent man who has not stooped to your level -- not once.

 

I think it would be difficult for him to get that low actually.

 

And again you make the assumption that because one does not believe in God then one must believe and worship Satan.

 

Wrong.

 

God is imaginary. The devil by any name is just as imaginary.

 

The Holy Spirit is imaginary. Satan is imaginary.

 

Removing Christianity does not follow that it would have to be replaced with something else.

 

That has been said so many times to you and you still hold on to your thought.

 

I don't believe in ANY God or Devil at all.

 

I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. So I hope that one is put to rest finally.

 

I believe Moai has stated the same. I welcome a correction from him if I am in err.

 

As always and I'll restate for the record:

 

If you have evidentiary proof that your religion is "true" by all means bring it. I'd love to see it and only by such will my belief in as of yet imaginary come to pass.

[Island Girl]

How did preaching good news injure others? How did preaching hope injure others? how did preaching purity in act injure others?

 

You clearly do not know what post I am referring to.

[Love Hurts]

Love Hurts

Can I PM you?

 

L.B.

My PM er doesn’t appear to work.

Am suppose to turn it on?

 

lol I dont know how to work it.... daaaa

 

Tell me what to do here and I'll see if I can get it working.

[Green]

What I'm about to write is neither in endorsment of sin or against it but its been proven that an unexpected result of legalized abortion in this country was a massive drop in the crime rate. 17 years ago violent crime had risen 80 percent. When the crime rate began falling in the early 1990s it did so with such speed and suddenness that it surprised everyone. In the first year after Roe v. Wade, some 750,000 women had abortions in the United States representing one abortion for every 4 live births. By 1980 the numer of abortions reached 1.6 million on for every 2.25 live births, where it leveled off. in a country of 225 million people, 1.6 million abortions per year, one for every 140 Americans, may not have seemed so dramatic. So 1.6 million American women a year who got pregnant were suddenly not having those babies. Before Roe v. Wade, it was predominantly the daughters of middle or upper-class families who could arrange and afford a safe illegal abortion Now, instead of an illegal procedure that might cost $500, any woman could easily obtain an abortion, often for less than $100. what sort of woman was most likely to take advantage of Roe v. Wade? Very often she was unmmarried or in her teens or poor, and sometimes all three. What sort of future might her child have had? One study has shown that the typical child who went unborn in the earliest years of legalized abortion would have been 50 percent more likely than average to live in poverty; he would have also been 60 percent more likely to grow up with just one parent. These two factors, childhood poverty and a single parent household are among the strongest predictors that a child will have a criminal future. Growing up in a single parent home roughly doubles a child's propensity to commit crime. so does having a teenage mother. Another study has shown that low maternal education is the single most powerful factor leading to criminality. In other words, the very factors that drove millions of American women to have an abortion also seemed to predict that their children, had they been born, would have led unhappy and possibly criminal lives. To be sur, the legalization of abortion in the united states had myriad consequences. Infanticide fell dramatically. So did shotgun marriages, as well as the number of babies put up for adoption which has led to the boom in the adoption of foreign babies. Conception by nearly 30 percent, but births actually fell by 6 percent, indicating that many women were using abortion as a method of birth control, a crude and drastic sort of insurance policy. Perhaps the most dramatic effect of legalized abortion, however, and on that would take years to reveal itself was its impact on crime. In the early 1990s, just as the first cohort of children born after Roe v. Wade was hitting its late teen years the years during which young men enter their criminal prime the rate of crime began to fall. What this cohort was missing, of course, were the children who stood the greatest chance of becoming criminals. And the crime rate continued to fall as an entire generation came of age minus the children whose mothers had not wanted to bring a child into the world. Legalized abortion led to less unwantedness' unwantedness leads to high crime' legalized abortion, therefore, led to less crime.

[Love Hurts]

Religious discussions always remind me of dueling banjos... point, counter-point, point, counter-point. I've always referred to it as dueling bibles, but that's just me.

 

My only question is... what is the point of this discussion? As Christians we are called to witness, which in essence is showing Christ's love to those who are not saved. At which point was the love of Christ being shown to the non-believers? At the point someone pronounces that the non-believer will burn in hell?

 

Someone mentioned that doing good deeds in the absence of Christ is self-righteousness. When the dictionary defines the word as

1. Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic.

2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks.

3. Holier than thou.

 

YOU are the representitive of the Christian faith, and even I don't like to be put in the same group of people who call themselves Christians yet show nothing of the love of Christ. I remember the EXACT moment my affiliation with the church came into question.

 

I was watching the funeral of Matthew Sheppard on television and I saw all of the people protesting. Signs displayed saying "God hates fags" and I remember sitting back and saying whoa? Aren't we supposed to be ministering to this family, homosexual or not, they just lost a loved one in a truly horrific way and the image the public sees of us is nothing but hate. It made me truly sad, and it made me ask questions that the church had no answers for.

 

It was the self-righteous attitudes of those in the church that drove myself and many like me out of the church. It made me question everything I had ever been taught, and everything I ever believed.

 

It was comments like human "suffering is a result of our sins" that caused me and others like me great pain. It drove me to be less concerned with the tree I was branching out from and more concerned with the fruits of that tree.

 

I hate calling myself a Christian, because it lumps me into a group of people that were able to show me nothing of Christ's love. Christ told me that faith, hope, and love remained... and the greatest of these was love. I took him at his word, when I have nothing else I hold these words as my hope.

 

The bible mentions the word love nearly 700 times, sin only appears about 450 times. Hate less that 150 times, Punishment only 60 times... yet is only believed to refer to homosexuality 9 times. That tells me personally that God intended to place a greater focus on loving one another than condemning one another.

 

Conversations like this one never fail to bring a great sadness to me, so much so that I usually avoid them altogether. How are we to show others the love of Christ when our words are so full of hate?

 

No one is Holier than thou, who didnt know that?

I say lets not hide in a dark corner throwing darts from it.

I want to know the whosie whatsie here.

If this is an issue at least now then we have a greater

understanding of what is going on.

 

Yes and God is love … Consider the word saved in itself… Saved…

Saved from what?

Saved from Hell.

No one likes to hear about it but even Jesus came to save us from it…because it is real. It’s a literal place and if any are unsaved; that means they are not saved from hell.

So what was Jesus trying to tell us in a word? Saved…

 

Its very important to realize we will spend eternity in one of two places … there is no plan C.

Wake up People … all unsaved go to Hell.

[Island Girl]

Lets sing a new song. Shall we?

 

Satan is in the house. Bellzibubbbbie oh so hot.

 

You likie hot? Hot not good! Hot hurt flesh... not good hot... run.. please run from hot.

 

Here is what I was referring to LB.

 

It is a complete quote of the post. Nothing has been removed or taken out of context.

 

DO you see the Asian accent? She was racially slurring against those of Asian decent. Making fun of the way they would speak English if they learned it as a second language.

 

LH has yet to apologize or clarify why she felt she needed to bash another race or make fun of those that do not speak English as their native tongue to try to get whatever point she was trying to make across.

 

I find this reprehensible.

 

I speak out against racial bigotry in whatever form and will always do so.

 

There is no justification for such horrible bigoted comments.

[lonelybird]

L.B.

My PM er doesn’t appear to work.

Am suppose to turn it on?

 

lol I dont know how to work it.... daaaa

 

Tell me what to do here and I'll see if I can get it working.

There is a checking box in "my profile --- edit option", if you enable the "private message", I think then I can pm you:)

[Love Hurts]

How petty you are being!

 

And so audacious! I sound like a whimpering baby? Have you read through your Freak Out passages in the pages after 19? Do you realize how they sound to others?

 

C'mon. Really.

 

Moai will answer what you have leveled against him -- the personal attacks that may or may not be true. He is a well versed intelligent man who has not stooped to your level -- not once.

 

I think it would be difficult for him to get that low actually.

 

And again you make the assumption that because one does not believe in God then one must believe and worship Satan.

 

Wrong.

 

God is imaginary. The devil by any name is just as imaginary.

 

The Holy Spirit is imaginary. Satan is imaginary.

 

Removing Christianity does not follow that it would have to be replaced with something else.

 

That has been said so many times to you and you still hold on to your thought.

 

I don't believe in ANY God or Devil at all.

 

I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. So I hope that one is put to rest finally.

 

I believe Moai has stated the same. I welcome a correction from him if I am in err.

 

As always and I'll restate for the record:

 

If you have evidentiary proof that your religion is "true" by all means bring it. I'd love to see it and only by such will my belief in as of yet imaginary come to pass.

 

I stab if I feel the need to. I can check to see who is inside and what is going on here.

I am exercising my work to dig deeper still.

We may need an exorcist on this board.

You can sign up if you feel the need... no pushing.

[Island Girl]

I stab if I feel the need to. I can check to see who is inside and what is going on here.

I am exercising my work to dig deeper still.

We may need an exorcist on this board.

You can sign up if you feel the need... no pushing.

 

Stab?

 

Who is "inside" and "what is going on here"?

 

Exercising to dig deeper?

 

Exorcist?

 

I don't understand.

[boshemia]

Hilary Faye: Mary, turn away from Satan. Jesus, he loves you.

Mary: You don't know the first thing about love.

Hilary Faye: [throws a Bible at Mary] I am FILLED with Christ's love! You are just jealous of my success in the Lord.

Mary: [Mary holds up the Bible] This is not a weapon! You idiot.

 

Mary: So everything that doesn't fit into some stupid idea of what you think God wants you just try to hide or fix or get rid of? It's just all too much to live up to. No one fits in one hundred percent of the time. Not even you.

Pastor Skip: I know that, Mary.

Dean: I know in my heart that Jesus still loves me.

Mary: Why would God make us all so different if he wanted us to be the same?

[Love Hurts]

There is a checking box in "my profile --- edit option", if you enable the "private message", I think then I can pm you:)

 

I have it now LB... ty.

[boshemia]

So do you do this for God or for yourself, I'm confused... and ummm, are you drunk because your posts are becoming more incoherent by the minute.

[Love Hurts]

Stab?

 

Who is "inside" and "what is going on here"?

 

Exercising to dig deeper?

 

Exorcist?

 

I don't understand.

 

Feelings can be deceptive, even when based on knowledge and experience. This is why we must learn to test the spirits according to 1 John.

 

I John 3:23-4:6

23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

 

Chapter 4

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.

6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood. (NIV)

 

Believers are thus always in need of what the New Testament calls diakrisis : a word sometimes translated as "discernment" or "discrimination" and defined by St. Paul as "the ability to distinguish between spirits" (1 Corinthians 12:10).

[lonelybird]

Reason number 6 thousand of "Why I will never be a Christian".

 

:bunny:

 

Funny.. I never come into this area.. thought I'd see what the "more enlightened" were talking about. I'd forgotten how derogatory, insulting, and demeaning they were.

so, who are Christians? follower of Jesus Christ. Who is Jesus Christ? Do you know his story, his personality?