Marriage Strike By Men

[Gunny376]

Given the family court policies and divorce trends of today, are men holding a 'marriage strike?"

Why should a man get married and have children when they could lose those children and most of what they've worked for all of their lives at a moment's notice.

 

I've seen it happen over and over again, the husband leaves the house in the morning, kisses the wife goodbye, hugs the daughter and kisses her goodbye, given the son a hug, and pat on the head and heads off for work, only to come home to an empty apartment or house ~ wife gone, children gone.

 

Or even worse to come home to the police in your driveway, telling you ~ you've got thirty minutes to pack your shaving kit, grad some clothes and to not be caught on the premises again ~ and they never saw it coming. Some of them were never able to see their children again?

 

According to the US Census, the marriage rate has dropped forty per cent during the last decade to its lowest point since it was first measured. They also tell us that for the first time in American history, 51% of all American women are single.

 

The feminist would have us believe that this is because women are pursuing degrees, careers, and postponing getting married and having children until later in life.

I believe that its because men are holding a marriage strike.

 

Its not difficult to see why? Lets say a guy gets married, and has two children. There's a 52 per cent change and in all likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, with 2-1 odds that the wife will be the one that initiates divorce proceedings. Seventy percent of the reason she will do so will not be because of spousal abuse, adultery, addiction, gambling ~ but primarily because she "loves him, but because she's not in love with him anymore" or she's just not feeling it for him anymore, or because she's not happy with him anymore. It want matter that he's a decent man and husband. Studies show time and again that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor, as I state is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

 

While the courts may grant the husband and wife joint legal custody, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the wife obtaining physical custody. Overnight, the husband, accustomed to have every day to day interaction with his children and being an significant part of their lives, will become a part time dad, spending on 14 percent of the time that he once did before the divorce?

 

Once they're divorced, chances are at least even that the wife will interfere with the husbands visitation rights, with little or no recourse through the court system. Three-quarters of divorce men surveyed say their ex-wives had done so, generally out of spite or in order to punish their ex-husbands.

 

Generally the wife will keep the house and most of the couple's assets, (because she the primary physical custodian of the children ~ don't you know?) The husband will have to set up a new residence, while going back to WalMart and else where to buy all those things he needs for his new residence that he had already bought once before. This all the while at least a third of his take home pay goes to the ex-wife in child support.

 

As bad as the above sounds. the above scenario would make this guy one of the lucky ones! He could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his (h)ex had made a false domestic violence, child abuse or child molestation charge against them. Or one who can only see them under supervised visitation, (Of course the vast majority of social workers are? You guessed it ~ women) or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are the criminals?

 

Worse yet, he could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds if not clear across country in violation of court orders ~ again with the dad not having any recourse from the court system because they don't enforce court orders that favor the man. His only recourse is to become the type of father that tears up his life and career again and again and again in order to follow his children and ex-wife wherever they're continually move to.

 

He could become one of the fathers who lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffer injury, only to have child support arrearage and interest pile up to create a mound of debt he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is force to pay 70 to 80% of his income in child support because the court has imputed some un-realistic income to him.

 

Suffers from one of the child support enforcement system's endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed, has his licenses (fishing, hunting, motorcycle, boating. professional, business,) revoked because he's behind (for whatever reason) who cannot keep up on his payments.

 

Or a dad who reaches old age ~ impoverished, living in a 20 year old single wide rental trailer, driving a 74 Ford Maverick held together with duct tape and bailing wire because he lost everything in a divorce when he was middle age and did not have the opportunity to earn it back.

 

Its just not worth the risk, the return on investment of time, effort, energy, money just isn't there.

 

Get married? Yea! Go for it!

[Sevenmack]

The real issue is that marriage requires compromise and willingness to work with one another. In an age where everyone is on busy, conflicting schedules, why actually compromise, split chores and all that?

 

I don't know if men are on strike from marriage or that the converse is true for women. What I do know from experience is that the efforts to hash out things and keep up communication can be exhausting. Especially when two really different personalities are involved.

 

Then there's the issue of when the two of you agree to even marrying. I dated a woman who within the first year I met her, I wanted to begin moving towards marriage. She cared for me in her way, but she wasn't there yet, especially since she just graduated from college, started a new job and moved to another state. She eventually wanted to marry, but by that time, I had emotionally moved on. I got tired of waiting for her to be where I was emotionally and relationship wise. So it ended.

 

Sure there are the issues of paternity, child support and the possibility of losing half the assets in a divorce. But I don't think that's stopping men from marrying. It's more likely the issue of having to constantly negotiate and communicate with someone who sees the world so much differently than you do that is at the heart of the problem. And it's not just a problem for men, but for women too.

[alphamale]

Its just not worth the risk, the return on investment of time, effort, energy, money just isn't there.

I agree GUNNY....marriage basically benefits the woman and kids.

[Gunny376]

The real issue is that marriage requires compromise and willingness to work with one another. In an age where everyone is on busy, conflicting schedules, why actually compromise, split chores and all that?

 

I don't know if men are on strike from marriage or that the converse is true for women. What I do know from experience is that the efforts to hash out things and keep up communication can be exhausting. Especially when two really different personalities are involved.

 

Then there's the issue of when the two of you agree to even marrying. I dated a woman who within the first year I met her, I wanted to begin moving towards marriage. She cared for me in her way, but she wasn't there yet, especially since she just graduated from college, started a new job and moved to another state. She eventually wanted to marry, but by that time, I had emotionally moved on. I got tired of waiting for her to be where I was emotionally and relationship wise. So it ended.

 

Sure there are the issues of paternity, child support and the possibility of losing half the assets in a divorce. But I don't think that's stopping men from marrying. It's more likely the issue of having to constantly negotiate and communicate with someone who sees the world so much differently than you do that is at the heart of the problem. And it's not just a problem for men, but for women too.

 

I'm starting to like the way you think SM

 

I agree with what your saying ~ but its often a case of one man finding one woman that's capable of being a co-equal working partner. Most folks here at LS are above your average Joe or Jane in that they're actively seeking the answers and the solutions that life lays before us.

 

Peopel who have a propesnity to be successful in marriage have the following:

 

Individual traits

1. High self-esteem.

2. Flexibility.

3. Assertiveness.

4. Sociability.

 

Couple traits

1. Similarity.

2. Long acquaintanceship.

3. Good communication skills.

4. Good conflict resolution skills/style.

 

Context

1. Older age.

2. Healthy family-of-origin experiences.

3. Happy parental marriage.

4. Parental and friends' approval.

5. Significant education and career preparation.

 

 

People ~ couples who have the propensity to fail in marriage have:

 

Couple traits

1. Dissimilarity.

2. Short acquaintanceship.

3. Premarital sex (especially a lot of experience with many different

partners).

4. Premarital pregnancy.

5. Cohabitation.

6. Poor communication and conflict-resolution skills.

 

Context

1. Younger age.

2. Unhealthy family-of-origin experiences.

3. Parental divorce or chronic marital conflict.

4. Parental or friends' disapproval.

5. Pressure to marry.

6. Little education or career preparation.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Or even worse to come home to the police in your driveway, telling you ~ you've got thirty minutes to pack your shaving kit, grad some clothes and to not be caught on the premises again ~ and they never saw it coming. Some of them were never able to see their children again?

exactly how does one accomplish that???

[alphamale]

exactly how does one accomplish that???

wife calls police and says hubby is abusing her and kids. she gets lawyer. she files for restraining order. then she files for divorce. she can easily lie to police and her lawyer if she wants.

[Gunny376]

wife calls police and says hubby is abusing her and kids. she gets lawyer. she files for restraining order. then she files for divorce. she can easily lie to police and her lawyer if she wants.

 

Yep that's about how it went down, except they had just gotten back from vacation for a week. Hubby left house, did the bye's kissy-kissy, love you, "what do want for supper tonight' etc.

 

He got home that afternoon, two sheriff deputy's served him the ro, told him he's got 30 minutes to grab what he can of his "personal belongings and only his personal belongings", (#%#^$&$ damn thing in that house and on this property are my so-called personanl belongings! I worked 15 years to earn it!)

 

She got the house, the better car, most everything in the house, chld support. Divorce is finaly she moved her "new" BF in, and they set up housekeeping. John got his old truck, an old bedroom suite, a set of linen, a few other things that could all fit in the back of his truck.

 

Oh! He got to pay 1/3 of his aftertax income in child support and exculsive right to pay for all that.

 

Alabama isn't a very good place to be a man going through a divorce.

 

I read today that Alabama is sixth in the nation for both capital murder ~ and divorce? Is it just me or is there a co-relation here ?

[Gunny376]

Like Alpha said Wishes, you lie to an attorney, lie to the police, lie to the judge ~ "that's my story and I'm sticking to it!"

 

The courts and police don't have the time, money, resources to pursue and investigation ~ are forced to take your word for it ~becuase of news headlines, politics, femni-nazi's etc it basically boils down to your word over his, and he's guilty until proven innocent ~ which nine times out of ten he can't. Because of the RO, he can't come within 100 feet of you and the kids. He's cut off from the kids, (his only witnesses in most cases).

 

If it comes out to the court that you made it up, you just do your little old Miss Scarlet routine, and tell them that the big, bad, old mean STBXH scared you into believing he was going to hurt little old you. The courts seldom if ever hold the lying azz wife in contempt because the politicians, press and femi-nazis would be all over him like a pack on dogs on a three legged cat. And, how did the judge get his job to begin with? He was elected. How does he keep it? Don't PO women, the politicians, the press, and the femin-nazi's.

 

Women ~ Femi-nazi's ~ 1

STBXH ~ O

[RecordProducer]

~ you've got thirty minutes to pack your shaving kit, grad some clothes and to not be caught on the premises again ~ and they never saw it coming.

See, this is the problem with couples that men mostly don't see things coming, even after a lot of nagging and fighting. They will label the wife as a nagging bitch, but won't listen to what she has to say actually and try to resolve the problems. I have this problem in my marriage. As Sevenmack pointed out, men and women don't understand each other and that's our biggest conflict.

 

In any case, you presented men as poor naive victims of women. It;s far from that...

[alphamale]

See, this is the problem with couples that men mostly don't see things coming, even after a lot of nagging and fighting.

they don't "see it coming" because women are fairly bad at direct communication.

[Topper]

Unfortunately The claim of abusive behavior is being used as a tactic by some woman. Their lawyers coach them on what to say and how to say it. It has proven an effective way to get what you want.

This gets into some murky water. In some cases there really is abuse.

Others crying wolf to gain some advantage in court are hurting those that really do need to get out because of abusive behavior.

there some interesting facts on child support. Men are often the ones who have limited access to their Children and have to pay support. Yes some do skip out and are deadbeat dads. In the rare cases that woman are ask to pay support, they are more likely then men to be deadbeat Moms.

Courts on the whole are more likely support woman in a divorce situation.

Another statistic is that more then 80% of all divorce actions are initiated by the wife.

Will I ever get married again? I don't think so. I could do like an old friend of mine. He now has a nice set up in the Philippines with a woman that is 25 years younger then he is. He knows she is there for the money. He is good to her and he does like her company. She seems to like him. Still he is sure that if his SS and military pension checks stopped coming in she would be out of his life. but what the heck his ex gets half his pension and it is a lot cheaper to live there then it is here on a limited income.

Maybe they need to redirect some of that lethal firepower in Alabama toward the divorce lawyers

[Gunny376]

See, this is the problem with couples that men mostly don't see things coming, even after a lot of nagging and fighting. They will label the wife as a nagging bitch, but won't listen to what she has to say actually and try to resolve the problems. I have this problem in my marriage. As Sevenmack pointed out, men and women don't understand each other and that's our biggest conflict.

 

You're absolutly right and your absolutely wrong. Depends upon the couple, depends upon the idividuals, depneds upon the marriage.

 

But, a statistic I saw today about women and marriage, was that 77% of all women say that their husbands don't listen to them.

 

In any case, you presented men as poor naive victims of women. It;s far from that...

 

Victims? Yes, but of the current system, but not of nor by women.

 

The divorce system used to un-fairly be completely lop-sided in the favor of men. Women had pratically zero rights. If there was a divore ~ the man got the children, the kids, the house, all of the property. The wife got to move back in with her parents with her kids if she was damn lucky.

 

Now the double edge sword of Justice has swung to the far otherside in favor of women ~ and now women are abusing the system just as men onced abused the system in their favor.

 

I'm not saying that yours and SM's post aren't valid point, and I certainly don't mean to imply that all of us men got together one deep dark night and conspired to go on strike against marriage ~ I am saying that individually men are saying to and of marriage ~

 

MARRIAGE? FORGET THAT!

 

And, understand RP, it only takes 10% to make the other 90% look bad. For every example that I can produce of some guy getting raped in divorce court you can produce one about some woman. But, on both sides ~ you know and I know it more than 10% of the "bad" ones making the rest of us look bad. I would argue its as much as 40% of the women and 50% of the men, that's making its hard for the rest of us.

 

For the 50% that don't or aren't getting married that are rolling up their shirt sleeves and doing the hard work necessary to make a go of it, well they're off the market.

 

Meanwhile, what's left mostly the bad ones who get even more skilled at screwing their spouses over the second and third time.

 

After awhile, it doesn't take an Eistein to figure out that playing this game is a lot nuclear war ~ the only way to win it, is to not to play it!

[Gunny376]

Maybe they need to redirect some of that lethal firepower in Alabama toward the divorce lawyers

 

It became legal last year in Alabama that:

 

If you feel physically threatened by someone on the street ~ its legal to shoot them.

 

They come in your yard ~ and you feel physically threatened ~ its legal to shoot them.

 

They try to car-jack your car ~ its legal to shoot them

 

The mayor of the state capital in Montgomery in reponse to questions abot the rising crme rate, "All I can tell you is to buy yourself a gun and learn how to use it."

 

That's where all the Southern Hospitality comes from and the reason we say "Sir" and "Ma'am" to everyone we come across.

[melodymatters]

Sorry Gunny, I know where you're coming from and you always write VERY well thought out posts, BUT :

 

I AM SO SICK OF THIS ATTITUDE ! I supported my first husband through tons of rehabs, and way too much drunken domestic violence. When i FINALLY kicked him out, I NEVER pursued child suport for our 1 daughter, ENCOURAGED him to call as often as he wanted ( he moved across the country for mommy to take care of him ) and paid for the divorce myself.

 

2nd time, I sold my condo and bought "us" a house, He wanted a lower interest rate, so we took out a loan with a fierce pre-payment penalty. I put up 40k, he put up 10k and I agreed to pay ALL OF THE BILLS until he could get on his feet. ONE MONTH LATER he abandoned us in the strange town "we" bought the house in, and sued me for divorce and forced me to refinance, basically costing me 20k to give back his precious 10K. I also paid for BOTH our lawyers.

 

Oh, and he seemed SOoooo unhappy that month, that I bought him a fishing boat for his birthday that he " didnt really like".

 

Last BF I bought a mack truck to start him in business, as his credit was crap.

 

And now, I hear from men constantly that they don't believe in marriage for the same reasons/ " stories" you told above.

 

BTW, this shouldn't matter, but I am a hot, slender, blue eyed blonde, who doesn't have to " buy" love, I'm just a giving person who believes in marriage and partnership. ......Guess I'm the only sucker left:(

[allina]

Oh god, this again

 

Someone heard a greatly exaggerated story or statistics

[Topper]

Lets see I hate Joe I think Joe is a Jerk. How can I get Joe out of my life?

The light bulb goes off! Invite him over for a beer in my new house in Alabama, shoot his sorry butt. Then tell the Cops he was breaking In!

[Gunny376]

Guess I'm the only sucker left:(

 

LOL! No! Now that I've started this thread ~ Cupid's probally got an ambush waiting for my azz when I walk out the door.

 

Me? Myself and I? I might get married again one day, if the right girl comes along. But you can bet you boots, horse and saddle it will be after a long courtship, pre-martial counselig, and aggrement. I'm certainly in no rush.

 

And, again, my complaint is the system. Before the current system, the system was biased and in favor of men. Its takes a long time for the system to work out in-justices.

 

For example take military retirement where a woman whose married to a carrer military man for 10 years gets half of his retirement.

 

In the orginal court case, the woman had been married to a Marine Col. for over thirty years. She could never get with a company long enough to establish her own retirement ~ becuase she was a camp follower and they changed bases every three years. As the wife of an up and coming commissioned officer there were numerous social functions which she was expected to be a part of, as well as volunteer, clubs to join etc.

 

In other words she scarificed her carrer for his. They retired and he came in after 30+ years and told her he was trading her in for a newer model, leaving her old, penny less, without any form of retirement and damn little social security ~ that was wrong!

 

That got the femi-nazi rolling on the legislative side. They passed a law that said if your married to a carrer military professional for 10 years, you get half his retirement. That's wrong! It should be determined on a case by case basis. And, on the face of it ~ it is, but in truth its nothing more than some judge rubber-stamping it. (BTW, my XW didn't get half of mine ~ she signed off on it, although she did get everything else worth stealing from the marriage ~ mainly because I gave it to her)

 

Un-questoinably, be your a woman or a man ~ a lot of this just has to do with making bad choices in mates to begin with.

 

As important as it is to know what you're looking for in mate, its just as important to know what you're not looking for. I believe both of us a real clear, pretty picture in our heads!

[Trialbyfire]

I'm on a marriage strike. It had better be the most honest, upstanding, amazing guy in the world before I ever commit to legalities like that again. The funny thing is that without marriage, I won't have children, because children need a unified relationship to base their foundations on. Vicious circle indeed...

[Sup]

You DO have a point Gunny. It does seem people are getting married later and later in life, or not at all. That's aside from all the crap in the courts, favoring women, and not prosecuting those who are found to be lying. It took years for the-, I kinda like this one, Fema-nazi's to take control. However, men in this time are adapting (We are the Bor-, oops, I mean, men, We WILL Adapt, Resistance Is Futile!) What I'm also saying here is the simple fact, that men are getting tired from all of this crap. I'm not against marriage by NO means, but, there is a saying, better to never marry, than to marry the WRONG person. If you get married these days, It had better be God who brings together the man and woman.

[Gunny376]

Well it may resolve itself in the end.

 

I saw a piece on National Geographic the other day. As everyone should know there the X chromosome and the Y Chromosome, and you two X’s to make a little girl and an XY for a little boys.

 

Weeeeeeeelllllllllllllll it seems that the X chromosome contains about 200,000 bits of gentic information each, but the Y chromosome only has about 40,000 and scientist theorize even that’s lessening everyday, to the point in about 150,000 years from now ~ there won’t be any more boys!

 

Ya'll miss when we're gone!

[Gunny376]

. However, men in this time are adapting (We are the Bor-, oops, I mean, men, We WILL Adapt, Resistance Is Futile!)

 

We posted about the same time Sup, see #20 ~ we're being assiminated! According to NG, we're adpating right out of exsistence in about 150,000 years from now.

[Gunny376]

I'm on a marriage strike. It had better be the most honest, upstanding, amazing guy in the world before I ever commit to legalities like that again

 

Lets just make fit simple ~ shall we.

 

We'll make marriag a five year contract with an option to renew!

[Sup]

LOL! No! Now that I've started this thread ~ Cupid's probally got an ambush waiting for my azz when I walk out the door.

 

Me? Myself and I? I might get married again one day, if the right girl comes along. But you can bet you boots, horse and saddle it will be after a long courtship, pre-martial counselig, and aggrement. I'm certainly in no rush.

 

And, again, my complaint is the system. Before the current system, the system was biased and in favor of men. Its takes a long time for the system to work out in-justices.

 

For example take military retirement where a woman whose married to a carrer military man for 10 years gets half of his retirement.

 

In the orginal court case, the woman had been married to a Marine Col. for over thirty years. She could never get with a company long enough to establish her own retirement ~ becuase she was a camp follower and they changed bases every three years. As the wife of an up and coming commissioned officer there were numerous social functions which she was expected to be a part of, as well as volunteer, clubs to join etc.

 

In other words she scarificed her carrer for his. They retired and he came in after 30+ years and told her he was trading her in for a newer model, leaving her old, penny less, without any form of retirement and damn little social security ~ that was wrong!

 

That got the femi-nazi rolling on the legislative side. They passed a law that said if your married to a carrer military professional for 10 years, you get half his retirement. That's wrong! It should be determined on a case by case basis. And, on the face of it ~ it is, but in truth its nothing more than some judge rubber-stamping it. (BTW, my XW didn't get half of mine ~ she signed off on it, although she did get everything else worth stealing from the marriage ~ mainly because I gave it to her)

 

Un-questoinably, be your a woman or a man ~ a lot of this just has to do with making bad choices in mates to begin with.

 

As important as it is to know what you're looking for in mate, its just as important to know what you're not looking for. I believe both of us a real clear, pretty picture in our heads!

 

 

If you don't mind me asking, why did she sign off on it, I mean she got everything!?

[melodymatters]

I agree that ALL court cases should be on a "case by case" basis ! Thanks for the story about the military wives then and now, very illustrative !

 

Whether marriage, child custody, or even drug charges. The rockefeller drug laws made it such that a woman who might have just got addicted and agreed to be a mule for an abusive BF will get the same sentence for 5 grams of cocaine as a life long felon drug dealer !

 

There are so many damn lawyers, can't we just appoint/elect a bunch more and put them in the local walmarts or something, so it doesn't take a zillion years for things to be decided, and so that they have the TIME to decide on a case by case basis ?!?

[Gunny376]

At the time Alabama wasn't a joint-property state, (necessarsy in order for her to get half ~ since then change, I believe in 97-98.)

 

Her nitwit lawyer, put in the divorce papers that she got everything in her possession, and I got what was in my possession, and that she waviered off any right now and in the future to my military retirement and benefits.

He did this thinking that I was just some dumb Marine and didn't know the law.

 

At any rate I had just gotten back from the Gulf War, when she handed me my walking papers. I knew I didn't have much chance of getting the children, being a career Marine, just back from a year in the Gulf. The children were young, DD ~ 10, DS ~ 6.

 

LOL, everything in my possession was my personal belongings, clothes, uniforms etc.

 

I was four years out from retirement @ 20 years. The cumulative lifetime value over the sum of the years of my retirement with medical and dental bennies came to around $3/4 of a million calculated over a minimum lifetime expectancy of about 30 years, (Hell I guess I'll make it to 68?).

 

She didn't know about the $24K in re-enlistment bonuses that was invested in a Dow 10 account with AG Edwards, nor the IRA that I had started, and added to each month nor the life insurance policies with New York life.

 

Not that I didn't try to involve and inform her of it, but everytime I'd bring it up, she'd get PO'd and tell me not to bother her with all that? Or as she would put it, "Just make sure there's plenty of money in the checking account so I can go shopping!

 

Okeeedookeey!

 

She didn't want to be bothered when we were married ~ I didn't see any reason to bring it up at the divorce?