Marriage Strike By Men

[4whatItsWorth]

3. Happy parental marriage. (NOPE)

2. Unhealthy family-of-origin experiences. (YES)

3. Parental divorce or chronic marital conflict. (YES)

 

Wow, me and my fiance are officially screwed before we even started! There are no happy marriages in both our families, in face only miserable divorce. (However, my grandparents stayed happily married - wehey!)

 

I'd like to say though, not just MEN come home to an empty apartment. That happened to my mom. (With the exception I was home simply cos that is where I lived. ) So not just women leave their husbands with a note...

[Sevenmack]

If anything, 4whatitsworth, you're actually solidly prepared for marriage because you've seen the wreckage of the past marriages of your family members. You have a chance to actually look at why their marriages went to crap and learn from their example. Believe me, I've learned plenty from watching my mother go through two horrible marriages and watching my grandparents figure out how to live with each other and keep love alive.

 

But I go back to my original argument: The reason why so many people are not marrying have to do with the reality of marriage. It takes picking the right mate, maintaining communication, growing together and realizing that desire is more immediate than love (which is why infidelity is always a possibility, no matter your morals). This means putting in a lot of time into keeping it together.

 

Marriage takes love, but it also takes work. And in this day and age, why work? You're only doing it because of love and to raise children; women are quite able to accumulate their own assets as men have always done and men can find sex anywhere if they're willing to look.

[stillafool]

According to the US Census, the marriage rate has dropped forty per cent during the last decade to its lowest point since it was first measured. They also tell us that for the first time in American history, 51% of all American women are single.

 

The feminist would have us believe that this is because women are pursuing degrees, careers, and postponing getting married and having children until later in life.

I believe that its because men are holding a marriage strike.

 

 

I hear this on the news a lot too. I don't think women want to wait until they get older to marry (or you can't tell by LS with so many women asking "why won't he marry me?"), but I think too that men are not as quick to propose as earlier times because they don't have to. Why should they when women are easier to sleep with than ever in history. Also the ratio of men to women gives most guys a lot of women to have sex with. My young brother-in-law says he will not marry but will remain a "maintenance man" (meaning only sleeping with women as they need). I think it is sad where this society is going.

[Porn_Guy]

Why should they when women are easier to sleep with than ever in history.

true SAF...western women have basically shot themselves in the collective foot by giving the milk away for free.

[serial muse]

For fun, I'm going to add my story to the tally, as a counterpoint to this "women hate men and will screw them at any opportunity" nonsense.

 

Like Woggle , I have direct experience of two divorces: my parents', and my own.

 

In the case of my parents, they divorced when I was one and my sister was three. Neither had any money; my mother was a SAHM and my father was "in between jobs." Basically, he walked away after I was born, saying he couldn't handle the responsibilities of home life and he wanted to "find himself." He had also cheated on my mother, and was sporadically physically abusive to her. She helped him pack his bags.

 

He was supposed to pay child support, but she never saw a dime. Never went after him for it, either, even though she had to move home to live with her parents in order to support us. She got a job as a public school teacher, and has been one for almost 30 years now. We rarely heard her say anything bad about him; didn't find out about either the abuse or the lack of child support until we were in high school. All she said was, "you can't get blood from a turnip." And there it is. End of story. She couldn't have been less interested in screwing him over - all she wanted was to move on with her life, and to give us a happy home. And that's exactly what she did. He also told us he'd help pay for our college - didn't happen. I think he once sent me a check for $300, which paid for one semester's worth of textbooks. Thanks Dad.

 

My father remarried eventually, by the way. He and his new wife (who my sister and I met, and liked) were together 11 years, until she became pregnant. After she gave birth, however, she almost immediately divorced him (we suspect it's because he was physically abusive). She also waived ANY child support, on the grounds that he would waive visiting rights. She took absolutely NOTHING from him - just like my mom.

 

My own divorce? I also took absolutely NOTHING from my exH. We divided up our stuff and went our separate ways. I couldn't have cared less about screwing him over (although at one point he threatened to go after some mutual funds I had from BEFORE I ever met him - they were purchased for me by my grandparents, in fact). I laughed in his face and told him to just try it.

 

So that's actually three stories of divorce in which the woman just wanted to move on in peace. OK, people??? Not every woman gives a crap about screwing the guy - sometimes she just wants it to be over!!!

[a4a]

 

 

I hear this on the news a lot too. I don't think women want to wait until they get older to marry (or you can't tell by LS with so many women asking "why won't he marry me?"), but I think too that men are not as quick to propose as earlier times because they don't have to. Why should they when women are easier to sleep with than ever in history. Also the ratio of men to women gives most guys a lot of women to have sex with. My young brother-in-law says he will not marry but will remain a "maintenance man" (meaning only sleeping with women as they need). I think it is sad where this society is going.

 

I waited until the ripe old age of 38...... should not have done it, but he wanted it. I wanted the property division contract and lease rights only for cohabitation. He wanted marriage.

 

Marriage is only worthwhile as a contract for division of property and claiming heirs. It ends up being one big giant scorecard with IOU's attached to it. Of course it is worthwhile to continue pension payments or tidbit SS checks-health insurance.

Other than that........ don't do it. Society is geared to only financially reward the married in cases of death/finances..... If that was gone I think nobody would really be all that interested in marriage.

 

and yep, I am a woman...... marriage just means it's harder to leave when you want to. Not worth the trouble.

[Mz. Pixie]

I have raised children without the benefit of child support. Not all men take their responsibility seriously. I would venture to guess that more deny their responsibility (in an attempt to punish the ex-spouse) than embrace it. It is my opinion that the children should not suffer, no matter how the marriage demised. My BF pays child support and we have had many discussions that I don't believe their "agreed upon" amount is sufficient. She hasn't expressed that he doesn't pay enough, so I accept that the value is none of my business.

 

I have been on the other side.

 

Yes, let's not forget many women get the short end of the stick as well.

I gave up alot financially when I left my ex- and when I moved out didn't have much to my name except a few pieces of furniture. I didn't have cookware or sheets for my kids beds until someone at work gave me some.

 

I've had to work all of my life for everything I've ever had and I fully expect to continue to do so. Now that I'm remarried I have the house and everything I could want and more. Plus a husband who actually enjoys spending time with me!!!!

 

The poor pitiful male saga grows a little weary for me lately- where are all the women posting that have gotten screwed over?? Because I know they are out there!!!

[Porn_Guy]

The poor pitiful male saga grows a little weary for me lately- where are all the women posting that have gotten screwed over?? Because I know they are out there!!!

I'm sure there are women out there who got "screwed over"....but they are few and far between. In my personal experience IRL its usually the man who gets shafted.

 

I heard on news today that some guy had sex change operation and now says its illegal for him to continue paying alimony & child support. He/she will get shafted by the system also.

[RecordProducer]

true SAF...western women have basically shot themselves in the collective foot by giving the milk away for free.

This is based on your theory that women benefit from marriage so they should try hard to trick men into it. In reality, we also want to get to know the person. We both have milk to give to each other And you can deprive the other party from your milk at any point. And people do that all the time.

 

When the milk was hard to earn, men and women were stuck with each other forever. It's not marriage, it's the commitment that many men have a problem with (especially married men!). THAT you can't trick anyone into.

[Gunny376]

This is based on your theory that women benefit from marriage so they should try hard to trick men into it. In reality, we also want to get to know the person. We both have milk to give to each other And you can deprive the other party from your milk at any point. And people do that all the time.

 

When the milk was hard to earn, men and women were stuck with each other forever. It's not marriage, it's the commitment that many men have a problem with (especially married men!). THAT you can't trick anyone into.

 

The simple fact remains RP?

 

Would you have married your DH if he didn't enjoy the social-economic position that he does? And don't even cite your 1st ~ you were young and dumb.

[Lezbean]

Wow, there are a lot of bitter men in this thread.

 

Not all women are out to destroy men and take them for everything they have.

 

I was married briefly to some ******* in Maui ( met him on vacation and eventually married him) I shipped all my stuff from the mainland to be with him. It cost about $15,000.

 

It was the STUPIDEST thing I have ever done. The marriage only lasted 2 years because he was an abusive drunk. I won't even go into it, but it was the worst time of my life and I mean the worst in every way. I asked for and got NOTHING when I left him. I just wanted OUT at any expense.

 

I stayed 6 more years there on my own. But when I wanted to move back to the mainland I had to leave behind EVERY THING I OWNED because I could not afford to have it shipped back. What I could not sell I left and I came back with nothing. I had to start completely over at 35.

 

Its been 3 years, I have rebuilt my life. I have a fantastic job, I make great money. Everything I own is better than what I left behind, and trust me I left some very nice things, expensive, irreplaceable antiques, etc. I must have left behind over $80,000 in furnishings, etc.

 

Anyway, my point is, women get screwed over too. I'm not bitter about it. I have a fantastic income, my kids are grown, I have a lot to offer my Honeypie and he would be a fool not to marry me.

 

I was also married to my children's Dad when I was 16 and had my kids. I never ONCE received a dime in child support not one red cent.

 

Women have it hard too. I've made my own way my entire life. I don't look at men as a free ride.

[portableversion]

both genders get screwed over.

 

It's just men are whiny little bi_tches that can't deal with it when they get 'screwed' over. Women get back up and move on. I suggest the men on this thread do the same, and do away with their adolsecent musings.

[serial muse]

I agree with Mz. Pixie – the “poor me” guy saga gets seriously old. Look, we could all trade stories for days about people getting screwed – men and women both. That won’t change the fact that people who are already bitter and inclined to form theories that put themselves and those they identify with in the role of victims a.k.a. the “good guys” are going to read those stories with some serious filters on. In other words, if you want to take a black-and-white view of gender, or anything else, you’ll only pay attention to the stuff that confirms what you already want to believe.

 

Earlier, I posted three stories, including my own, of divorce in which the women married men for love, were cheated on or otherwise screwed, and were happy just to get the hell out – and they didn’t make any effort to take one cent from the guy.

 

So now I’ll post the story of a friend of mine – a woman – who made more money than the guy and got royally screwed by him. Okay? Read if you dare.

 

She’s a lawyer, he’s a struggling writer. They were together for about 10 years total, married for 7 I think. She supported him throughout, and of course he was on her health insurance. After a while, he grew increasingly distant, stayed up until 7 or 8 in the morning online and talking on the phone, and she barely saw him. She thought he was depressed. He didn’t attempt to write anymore.

 

Of course, it turned out he was having an affair – with his best friend’s girlfriend. Nice. When it came out, he defended it by saying she couldn’t understand their love and he was just doing what was right for him. So my friend agreed to divorce him. But it didn’t stop there. She was ordered to continue paying his insurance until the divorce is final. They have been separated for a while at this point, during which she has continued to pay his health insurance and other bills and he won’t completely move out. God only knows how this will end up, and why she doesn’t just kick him out on his ass.

 

At some point, I really hope people will stop hating on each other on the basis of broad generalizations like their gender, and just focus on hating on the ACTUAL SPECIFIC PEOPLE who have acted like asses in their lives.

 

Or better yet, overcome the bitterness and put it behind you. Someday. This is my dream.

[Sup]

Sup, I thought you were a woman? A very backward one! Whatever that meant...

 

 

RP, I thought you were a man? A very backward one! Whatever that meant...

[Sup]

It is very true that many women use kids as a weapon. My mother said she was tired of being a wife and mother so when she left my father he offered to take full custody of me but she refused. She wanted to bleed him dry and she refused to let him win so she got custody of me and would not let him see me for a few years. I remember one time we ran into him in public and she pulled me away from him. She did it because she just wanted to be a spiteful bitch and saw it as a war against a man. I think this is the reason many women do what they do. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Men need to realize how much women hate us and that they will use even their own children as weapons.

 

 

God forbid should you stand up to one!

[Sup]

The only one who hates here is you. You hate women because of your mother. Bitterness and many other affects remain psycho-analytically underestimated, apparently being taken for granted that their nature is self-evident. You're a school example of how hostile environment during childhood can cause emotional invalidity.

 

 

NORMAN! Yes Mother? Take out the trash! Yes mother, in just a minute.... Norman then takes out a large kitchen knife........ Have you seen the Psycho movies lady, that stuff does happen.

[SoleMate]

Gunny, you must be having a bad day because you're usually rational, but this post is not. There are plenty of statistics on divorce that show women do NOT abuse the system. (They might want to but judges won't allow it, and in fact fewer than 10% of divorces in my state actually go before a judge. The attorneys come to an agreement before the need for a trial is reached.)

 

I've been through a divorce and I can assure you that I wrote my XH a high 6 figures check. He might think I "cleaned him out" because community assets were divided 50/50. He finally let go of the last $50,000 (retirement money) his attorney agreed he owed me 1.5 years after the final decree.

 

Happy to look at any FACTS supporting your position.

[Sup]

As far as the marriage thing goes Gunny, What would happen if a man who has a house already, then gets married, has children, or doesn't have children, they get Divorced. Would he lose his house whether there were children or not? Remember, he HAD the house BEFORE getting married! This could also go for any investments that HE had prior to the marriage, just a question I HAD to ask!

[amaysngrace]

I am a woman...... marriage just means it's harder to leave when you want to. Not worth the trouble.

 

I totally agree with this. It's a pain in the ass to get divorced. Too drawn out and too much strain on both parties' well-being if you ask me. Plus the financial aspect of it all. You pay your lawyers and you're both worse off than you were when you were married, financially speaking.

 

It's a hit for both people, not just the men.

[Gunny376]

I've said this before in this thread, I'll say it again.

 

MY BEEF IS WITH THE SYSTEM OF DIVORCE AS IT STANDS ~ NOT WITH WOMEN! ITS THE SYSTEM OF DIVORCE ~ AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS THAT IS FLAWED IMO!

 

Now with that said, yes we could sit here all day swapping stories about who got screwed over the most ~men or women. For every one us men can come up with ~ the women can come up with one. For every story we men come up with ~ the women can come up with one just as equally bad ~ if not worse.

 

Personally, I believe all of the states should pass laws that make it harder to get married. More than just a blood test and $25, and its insane to let children (16) get married. At the very least before you gett a marriage liscense issued to you by the state you should be required by law to attend (at your expense) mandatory mariage classes, and pre-marriage counseling, since that seems to be where we end up anyway on the backside of marriage. Why not get pro-active about it going into it.

 

And the custodial parent needs to have their feet to the fire in accountablity as to how the child support is being spent. For every nine that's already spending the money solely in support of the children there's at least one that spending it more of themselves than the children. And, I agree wholeheartly ~ that the non-custodial parent needs to have their feet held to the fire for paying child support.

 

Some courts look at this way. "OK Mz P, how much is your rent? $300 / 3 comes to $100, and since there's two children, that means Mr. P should be paying $200 a month in child support toward covering the rent."

 

Wrong! The cost of renting a three bedroom over say a two or one bedroom is an incremental cost. If a three bedroom goes for $300, a two bedroom for $200, the incremental cost increase of a 3BR over a 2BR is $100. Ditto with lights, water, gas, really if you think about it ~ groceries, and a lot of other things.

 

What you ladies aren't grasping from this thread in both civil, divorce, and criminal courts ~ when it comes to men and women ~ they're generally speaking are double standards, (that vary depending upon the court, the judge and the locale).

 

A man sexually molests a child ~ she gets a couple of years ~ if not probation. A man molests a child he gets years!

 

A woman in Ga, murdered both of her husbands and got life. A man murders his wife and he gets a "shot" to the here-after.

 

As quoated bySup

 

As far as the marriage thing goes Gunny, What would happen if a man who has a house already, then gets married, has children, or doesn't have children, they get Divorced. Would he lose his house whether there were children or not? Remember, he HAD the house BEFORE getting married! This could also go for any investments that HE had prior to the marriage, just a question I HAD to ask!

Depends upon which state you're in and what case law is ~ but generally speaking whatever you owned prior to the marriage would be yours if the marriage dissolves. In this scenario ~ your best bet would be a pre-nup ~ which the Femi-nazi's have been successful in states in getting ruled null and void. That is to say even a pre-nup may not hold up in court. A lot of courts have ruled that a woman cannot sign away her rights to common law property, etc.

 

The trick is to not mingle before marriage assets with after marriage assets. Look at it as if it were two differenet glasses of water. One is muddied, and the other is clear. The muddied one is "before marriage" assets, and the clear one is "after marriage" You pour one into the other, you've mingled them together.

 

For example. I'm retired out of the Marines, and get a check each month. Generally speaking, should I re-marry again under Federal law my new wife wouldn't have any claim on my retirement unless she and I were married at least 10 years while I was on active duty prior to retiring.

 

However, under Alabama state law, a common property state, if during the course of the marriage, if I used my retirement to support the marriage she would have dibs on my retirement. However, since Federal law superceeds state law ~ she wouldn't have dibs on it.

 

But, less say that instead of being retired out the Marines ~ I was retired from the state, and I used my retirement to support the wife and marriage ~ she'd have claim to it. Even though I earned it before we got married. Ditto with lottery winnings for example.

 

To the ladies ~ it wasn't my intent to start a fire fight here between men and women. Divorce laws were once upon a time about 50 or 60 years un-fairly ~ and un-justly in favor of men. The pendulum has swung full swing in the other direction to the point where they're un-justly in favor of women.

 

And just as men abused the laws when it was in their favor ~ there are women out here that are abusing the laws in they're favor.

 

With that said ~ I would say that the vast majority of "regulars" that post here at LS consistenty are above and beyond your average Joe or Jane on the street.

 

Again ~ my beef is with the system of divorce ~ not women.

 

What women I do have a beef with is the radical Femi-nazi's and they're agenda. I'm just sorry as I can be, but I'm not going to apolgize for being a man, thinking like a man, acting like a man, talking like a man ~ walking like a man!

 

With that said~ Semper Fi ~ Carry on!

[RecordProducer]

RP, I thought you were a man? A very backward one! Whatever that meant...

I thought you were a woman. An ugly one! :lauh: But you're a man. A handsome one!

 

No, the thing with being backward was because for some reason I thought you were female, but you sounded weird. OK, for a man you're not bad! Just kidding, just kidding... you're bad!

 

The simple fact remains RP?

 

Would you have married your DH if he didn't enjoy the social-economic position that he does? And don't even cite your 1st ~ you were young and dumb.

In an ideal world, marrying someone wealthier than yourself would be a lucky circumstance... but reality, that very social-economic position made me feel like I am a staircase beneath him.

[Gunny376]

In an ideal world, marrying someone wealthier than yourself would be a lucky circumstance... but reality, that very social-economic position made me feel like I am a staircase beneath him.

 

I understand, I really do.

 

I come from a long line of dirt poor Alabama country folks. Each generation busted their ass to give the next a leg up. They went on to become RN's, PhD's or in the military etc.

 

One of my aunts on my mother's side married a illiterate Mexican immigrant that separated chicks for a living. She went on to become an RN and married a Dr. She divorced him and married another RN, (male). Of her four marriages? She was the most miserable with the Dr. who came from "old money" which here in Alabama means back before the War Between The States"

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm just sorry as I can be, but I'm not going to apolgize for being a man, thinking like a man, acting like a man, talking like a man ~ walking like a man!

 

With that said~ Semper Fi ~ Carry on!

 

Oh gosh, please don't- because men are delicious when they behave like men. That wasn't my intention at all.

 

You know- my H's family are very comfortable financially. But I didn't know about it until after we married. I mean, he's a teacher so I obviously didn't marry him for how much money he makes. After I found out about it I went to H and told him I'd sign a post nup!!! I told him I'd sign that if I cheated I'd leave with nothing but what I came with- my retirement and some furniture and jewelry. But on the same side that his post nup would read that if he cheated and left me I would get half. He was amazed that I'd be willing to do that!!!!

[dropdeadlegs]

Gunny, you made some very good points in the muddying of assets and that can be applied to income and expenditures as well.

 

From my experiences in divorce what I have concluded is that if one partner made certain concessions during the marriage, those consessions are considered by courts as now being required after divorce.

 

Take serialmuse's wealthy female friend. She allowed her aspiring writer husband to pursue a dream and was willing to support him. Since this was fine with her during marriage, the courts are likely to award her spouse alimony for a period of time.

 

If a man with adequate income thinks it best for his wife to stay home with the children, the courts are likely to agree that she should be allowed to continue to do so in the event of a divorce.

 

It's often about what was acceptable to a couple during the marriage that is deemed acceptable by the courts afterwards as well.

 

As for assets and income, I agree that however money was used during the marriage plays a big part in the division of property and finances. For instance, in my case, my husband worked many hours of overtime in order to bring more income to the table and afford us more "things." In court he didn't feel that overtime income should be considered in support factoring because it was somewhat voluntary in nature. The judge thought that if he was so willing to volunteer for the overtime in order for his family to have nicer things, that he should be willing continue to volunteer because the children were accustomed to a certain lifestyle. They were also accustomed to a SAHM, but I had no problem with obtaining employment, (even put him on my health insurance policy when I did,) so I did not seek alimony, even on a temporary basis.

 

Our house was in my name only. I also live in a community property state, but had the wherewithall to obtain a Termination of Matrimonial Regime through the courts. That effectively stated that any assets and any debts acquired prior to the marriage were the property and sole responsibility of each party. I did this because my spouse had tens of thousands in unpaid debts. I was told that it would be unlikely that anyone would come after me in relation to those debts, but it was possible. This document was drawn up after the marriage with a clause that backdated the agreement to the date of the marriage. It was such a smart thing to do. Many creditors came after me while we were separated because he incurred debt after the separation but before the divorce was final. Louisiana no longer recognizes a Legal Separation. True to his past form, he wasn't paying his bills and even had a vehicle repossessed. The home was purchased with MY downpayment, My credit, and My income level. He certainly contributed to the payments when I was staying home and not working. If he had been inclined, I believe that he would have been entitled to some equity from the sale since I had muddied the water by accepting his contributions. It would have been a moot point because his equity would only have been a little over $4k, and he already owed more than that in child support by the time of the sale. I would have countered with that and still kept the money. In my accounting of unpaid support, I credited him with half the equity.

 

My point is that any financial benefit or ruin caused by divorce is often the result of our own negligence to educate ourselves, make good choices, keep the waters clear, and use the court system to protect ourselves. If you don't want to support your spouse after marriage, insist they contribute to supporting themselves during marriage. If you don't want to lose your assets, have legal documents drawn up and keep your monies separate.

 

Of course we all believe this marriage will be the one to last forever....until it doesn't. Better to be safe and prepared than sorry.

[serial muse]

My point is that any financial benefit or ruin caused by divorce is often the result of our own negligence to educate ourselves, make good choices, keep the waters clear, and use the court system to protect ourselves. If you don't want to support your spouse after marriage, insist they contribute to supporting themselves during marriage. If you don't want to lose your assets, have legal documents drawn up and keep your monies separate.

 

Of course we all believe this marriage will be the one to last forever....until it doesn't. Better to be safe and prepared than sorry.

 

That was a delightfully clearheaded post, DDL, and I agree completely, particularly with the part I've quoted above.

 

Gunny, I do take your point, and I don't know that I was specifically thinking of you even when I made my post. But I think it's quite clear that it doesn't ever seem to take long on these boards to go from "the courts favor women" to "men always get screwed" to "women are (almost?!?) universally out to screw men."

 

If I wanted to, I could go back and find those posts on this thread (and God knows, there are plenty of others) that have said that very thing; but honestly, I just don't feel like reading them again because they make me so very, very tired and the victimhood exasperates me. So I won't bother. I honestly don't remember who made those posts on this thread, and truly, I don't much care. I just think it does a great disservice to people to create trumped-up gender wars out of bitterness toward an ex, and it seems like such a lot of drama and a waste of energy to me.

 

That's why I wholeheartedly agree with DDL, (and even with Woggle! ), on this one - if you're worried about your assets, just get a damn prenup and educate and protect yourself. Don't make a federal case out of it with your partner, don't accuse them of anything preemptively when they're more than likely to be a good person anyway, and for the love of all that's holy, don't talk about it as though "men always do XXX" and "women always do YYY" because that's horseshyt. The plain fact is, some people suck and they always will.

 

If I ever get married again - and lord knows, that's a big IF - I'll certainly do precisely as DDL has advised.