Tribulation on earth.

[Island Girl]

God didn't want somebody lie for Him. Did you ask God about that?

 

God, why do people lie in your name to get their own point across?

 

*crickets chirp in the distance*

 

God, you say you already know who goes to Heaven and it doesn't matter what a person does - you've made your decision. Is that true?

 

*an owl hoots and there is more cricket chirping*

 

God, will you put an end to the interpretations and clarify all of the misconceptions about what is the right way and what isn't?

 

*silence - except for the crickets chirping*

 

Crickets! Those little buggers never let you down do they

[lonelybird]

God, why do people lie in your name to get their own point across?

 

*crickets chirp in the distance*

 

God, you say you already know who goes to Heaven and it doesn't matter what a person does - you've made your decision. Is that true?

 

*an owl hoots and there is more cricket chirping*

 

God, will you put an end to the interpretations and clarify all of the misconceptions about what is the right way and what isn't?

 

*silence - except for the crickets chirping*

 

Crickets! Those little buggers never let you down do they

You cannot hear because you are not humble enough.........

[Moai]

God didn't want somebody lie for Him. Did you ask God about that?

 

That's a good question. Since I don't think that god exists, I don't think that I ever asked him anything. Rather, it was more thinking about things and then coming to a conclusion based on what I hoped was right.

 

But I did read his book. And the Genesis account of Creation is wrong. Creationists claim it is not, but not only do they not have any positive support for their own position (because there isn't any) they mine quotes out of books written by prominent biologists hoping to show that they don't really accept evolution. They edit words out, and combine paragraphs to make their point.

 

Just like when Christians complain about taking quotes out of context, they do this themselves to these scientist's work. And, if you check the quotes out, it is obvious that they are lying.

 

Then I realized that they have no choice but to lie. Their position is untenable.

 

I also realized that in order for Christianity to have any validity, the Genesis account MUST be true. Literally true.

 

If Adam did not eat the fruit of the tree, man is not inflicted with original sin. Death is not the wages of sin. Suffering is not caused by sin, as there is no sin. Man is not born into sin, as there was no sin to pass down from Adam.

 

And, if man is not born into sin, then Jesus did not die to absolve it, for there is nothing to absolve. That means that the entire crucifixion is a fantasy.

 

The Creationists in IDers know this, and must find any way they can to keep their book and their religion, and so must resort to lying and misrepresenting simple scientific facts. They do not want people taught biology, because in their mind that will lead them to unbelief (they are right about that) and then people will go to hell. So, lie and save people is the answer they came up with.

 

Also, you can show the Genesis account to be false using just the Bible itself, let alone the evidence from the natural world.

 

As I read more about the subject, I learned more about fallacious reasoning and how to spot it, and that was it. I dropped my superstition about god.

[Moai]

You cannot hear because you are not humble enough.........

 

What do you mean by humble? i don't see what that has to do with it. I have asked this before, and didn't get an answer.

 

If by ignoring the natural world and the distinct lack of evidence and believing anyway is benig "humble" then you're right, I guess.

[Island Girl]

You cannot hear because you are not humble enough.........

 

Well the next time God talks to you -- ask Him about the inconsistencies in the bible, will you?

 

You could clear up a lot if you could get those answers - after all the debate has been ongoing for thousands of years.

 

What's that?

 

It isn't that type of communication? He doesn't talk to you either?

 

Oh well, don't take it to heart -- He doesn't talk to anybody.

 

It seems He likes to be loved and worshiped from afar with one way communication.

 

----

 

At least Santa brings presents once a year. There is more evidence that he exists than your God --

 

oh yeah that is all just made up and grown ups just preserve the belief by creating and preserving the facade.

 

Kinda like the bible.

[lonelybird]

Well the next time God talks to you -- ask Him about the inconsistencies in the bible, will you?

 

You could clear up a lot if you could get those answers - after all the debate has been ongoing for thousands of years.

 

What's that?

 

It isn't that type of communication? He doesn't talk to you either?

 

Oh well, don't take it to heart -- He doesn't talk to anybody.

 

.....

God will reveal the truth a little by little, not all truth at one time like you thought. When we believers meet certain situation, Holy Spirit will reveal certain verse to us, then let us know what the meaning behind the verses. It is a progress. And too much light can burn people. God teach us certain truth when HE feel we are ready.

[lonelybird]

What do you mean by humble? i don't see what that has to do with it. I have asked this before, and didn't get an answer.

 

If by ignoring the natural world and the distinct lack of evidence and believing anyway is benig "humble" then you're right, I guess.

Humble is opposite pride.

one example: when a person don't understand certain verses in Bible,

Pride: he claims Bible is wrong, (self-righteousness)

Humble: he claims that he don't understand it right now but trust God will reveal it later at the right time.

 

I didn't mean "ignore natural", I mean go beyond nature world and see through natural world

[Island Girl]

God will reveal the truth a little by little, not all truth at one time like you thought. When we believers meet certain situation, Holy Spirit will reveal certain verse to us, then let us know what the meaning behind the verses. It is a progress. And too much light can burn people. God teach us certain truth when HE feel we are ready.

 

But that isn't what the bible says.

 

That may be your interpretation - but that doesn't mean you are right.

 

And in fact you contradict yourself completely.

 

You said all we have to do is ask and He comes into us. We are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Where does it say it happens little by little.

 

Oh yeah. That's right.

 

It doesn't.

 

What you say here directly conflicts with what you and others have said and what the bible says.

 

Nice try.

[Moai]

Humble is opposite pride.

one example: when a person don't understand certain verses in Bible,

Pride: he claims Bible is wrong, (self-righteousness)

Humble: he claims that he don't understand it right now but trust God will reveal it later at the right time.

 

I didn't mean "ignore natural", I mean go beyond nature world and see through natural world

 

It isn't pride that claims the Bible is wrong. In many cases, it is simple common sense and basic observation.

 

The Bible says that there was a tree that imparted knowledge to those who ate it. That's right, we got the knowledge of good and evil by eating something. Funny that god didn't want us to have that knowledge, but then uses it to teach us lessons now...but I digress. There was also a tree in the garden that if you ate it you would live forever.

 

On its face, that is impossible. There is nothing that you can eat that will give you knowledge. There is no plant that if you ate it you wouldn't die. there never has been.

 

There was no death in the Garden. that being the case, Adam and Eve would have exploded in about twenty minutes form the bacteria in their intestines. You see, you have to have that bacteria to digest food. It is a symbiotic relationship. But they live on a few minutes, but they divide like crazy. I they don't die, BOOM! Also, all the animals who are carnivores couldn't eat because in order to survive they would have to kill something. Their digestive systems cannot get nutrients effectively from vegetable matter. So they would starve. But they can't starve, because there is no death.

 

The two accounts don't even agree with each other, let alone what a simple walk through the park would show you.

 

Let's fast forward to the flood. Noah took two of every animal on his ark. That's every type of any, every type of beetle (there are over 40,000 beetle species), flys, monkeys, and sloths. And what about sloths? They move very, very slowly. Did they leave fifteen years before the Flood to get to where Noah was? What did they eat along the way?

 

Noah had more animals on his ark than exist in any modern zoo. ANd there are zoologists dedicated to individual animals in zoos because many animals are difficult to keep alive in zoos. But Noah and his family, with no knowledge of modern biology were able to do it. They could keep the boat clean, the animals fed (they had enough animals to feed the carnivores, too), and his family also.

 

Not only is this impossible and silly on its face, there is no evidence of a global flood anywhere in the world. Beyond that, there would be no fish alive, anywhere. If the salinity of the oceans is not at a certain percentage, fish die. If fresh water fish enter salt water, they die. You can try this yourself. Get a freshwater fish and gradually increase the salinity. The fish will die. And the flood was anything but gradual.

 

Let's look at the battle of Jericho. God promised that Joshua would win the battle in a day. When it looked like that might not happen, god stopped the sun in the sky so Joshua would win the battle as promised. This implies that the Sun revolves around the Earth (that is where people got the idea and kept it for 1600 years, at least.) You see, if the sun stopped in the sky, that means the Earth stops rotating. If the Earth stops rotating, anything not fixed into the Earth would fly to the East at 1,000 miles an hour. And what about the people living on the other side of the planet? Their night was longer, and they were given no explanation. You'd think that they would freak out at the fact that the night was a few hours longer. At least you'd think they would have written about it, but they didn't. The only place that this is recorded is in the Bible.

 

Let's look at something int he New Testament. In Matthew chapter 27, we read, "51 At that moment the curtain in the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart,52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead 53 after Jesus' resurrection. They left the cemetery, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people."

 

So, many people who were dead and buried got out of their graves or crypts, walked around, and went into town. They were seen by many people, apparently. Funny that the Romans, who were excellent record keepers make no mention of this. In fact, no other Gospel mentions this, only Matthew. I would think a horde of zombies descending on a town would be written about somewhere other than an account written a long while after the actual event. There is no mention of these people being recently buried or not, so it is reasonable to assume that these reanimated corpses were in various states of decay.

 

Must I suspend all incredulity in order to be saved? I do not believe that people rise from the grave. I know that just by being alive and having been to a few funerals. Am I to ignore that which is self-evident in order to attain paradise?

 

I am sure that you can come up with a great many of ad hoc explanations for these events, such like, "Of course God can do this, he is god and can do anything" and that may be so. But why doesn't he do these things now? Believers now need his help just as much as the Bible characters, and yet nothing magical ever happens. Why does god work so illogically? If he wanted Joshua to win the battle, why not just dispose of the enemy himself? Why stop the Earth from rotating and keep everything from flying off at 1,000 miles an hour when he could just as easily "poof" the army away and be done with it?

 

Why wipe everything out with a flood? He killed all the animals, too. They did nothing. He could have just killed all the people and left Noah and been done with it, but he didn't. And why is there no evidence of these amazing events occurring, save in the Bible itself?

[Island Girl]

Let's fast forward to the flood. Noah took two of every animal on his ark. That's every type of any, every type of beetle (there are over 40,000 beetle species), flys, monkeys, and sloths. And what about sloths? They move very, very slowly. Did they leave fifteen years before the Flood to get to where Noah was? What did they eat along the way?

 

Noah had more animals on his ark than exist in any modern zoo. ANd there are zoologists dedicated to individual animals in zoos because many animals are difficult to keep alive in zoos. But Noah and his family, with no knowledge of modern biology were able to do it. They could keep the boat clean, the animals fed (they had enough animals to feed the carnivores, too), and his family also.

 

Moai - you make a great point I had not yet thought of.

 

Noah kept only two of each species - and you're right about the sheer numbers of animals, etc. that this would entail.

 

And of course the ability with no knowledge to be able to keep these animals alive for more than a month.

 

But if Noah only brought two of any given animal - what did he feed the animals? The carnivores could have no food the entire time for that would mean eating one of the other animals mates which were needed to completely repopulate the Earth.

 

And what of the journey back to their native land. The animals disembarked and set forth on a journey to get back to their native lands.

 

How would this happen when the length of time it took for the journey would encompass many of these life forms' lifetime?

 

They'd die before they could ever repopulate!

 

Especially those species who only have one baby a year.

 

The bible is so ridiculous.

[pureinheart]

All the prophetic signs have been fulfilled that lead up to Rapture. Including the ever-growing number 666 … we are the generation to see these things unfolding.

 

The book of Revelation was written chronologically. Revelation 1:19 says:

“Write the things which thou hast seen, the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter” (past, present and future).

 

Chapter 1 speaks of the past and chapters 2 and 3 speak of the present.

 

---Time wise we are currently living in the book Revelations Chapter 3

 

we are approximately at Revelation 3:15,16 and 17—the cold, lukewarm, lackadaisical Laodicean church….

 

[and the future is shown in chapters 4-22].

 

 

---The next event is Revelation 4:1 where John says:

 

“After this I looked, and behold the door was open and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither…”

 

This is the Rapture.

Some people think this passage is speaking only to John but if you read ahead you will see that verses 10 and 11 talk about the 24 elders casting their crowns before the throne.

 

This scene must take place after the Judgment Seat of Christ in order for the 24 elders to have crowns to cast at Jesus feet. The Judgment Seat of Christ cannot take place unless all Christians are present. This would mean that the Rapture has taken place.

 

The next event in Revelation, after the Rapture, is chapter 6, which is the Tribulation. Since chapter 4 comes before chapter 6 (the Tribulation) then we must conclude that the Rapture does take place before the Tribulation.

 

---I believe we are resting on this scripture right now…

 

2Thes 2:7 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

 

The Antichrist is already at work and only Christ holds him back, until the Church be taken out of the way.

 

I believe the Antichrist is here he has not yet been revealed and He will not be revealed until the Church is removed.

As for how much time? All I can say is we are close…

 

________________________

Daniel 2:32-42 describes the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Daniel 2:38 states that the head of gold of Nebuchadnezzar's image was the existing Babylonian Empire. "Oking...Thou art this head of gold."

 

 

Wow Love Hurts, what a cool post....only read the first page of this thread, and agree, am a pre-tribber also as nothing else makes sence. God specifically states that he will not pour out wrath on the church, so the church MUST be taken out before the trib.

 

Oh yes, we are sooooo close....hey here is a video of the chip implantation thing.....

 

 

[COLOR=#003399]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7pHb7bPfMc[/COLOR]

 

This very interesting as to how close we REALLY are!!!!!!!!!

[Island Girl]

This very interesting as to how close we REALLY are!!!!!!!!!

 

People have been saying this for hundreds of years - "the end is near!"

 

Although they have had "signs" etc. they've all been wrong.

 

Love_Hurts has said it is coming in the next 7 years. Am I to assume you agree?

 

No later than 2014, right LH?

 

You keep waiting for it.

 

Let me know how that goes for you.

[Moai]

Again, let's list all the things that the Bible says happened, or is "true":

 

Magic trees.

 

Talking animals, like serpents or donkeys.

 

The fact that if a cow looks at a stick it will have spotted offspring.

 

The Sun revolves around the Earth.

 

That the Earth is flat.

 

People die and rise again. This doesn't just happen to Jesus, but Lazarus, Elijah, and Elisha all rose from the dead. I am going to look it up, but one person actually rose from the dead by touching another person's corpse.

 

Also, a horde of zombies descended on Jerusalem. No time frame was given as to how long they were dead, so we must assume that the time varied for each zombie. As there was no form of preservation--they weren't mummies--some there were skeleton zombies all the way to half-rotted, to "freshly" dead. And where did the zombies go? The Bible doesn't mention them dying again.

 

The fact that childbirth is painful for human women is because of Eve's sin.

 

If a man is a believer, he must cut off his foreskin to show obedience. Why would god require a religious mutilation that nobody ever sees--well, unless you are showering in the gym or married?

 

Demons can be cast from a person into pigs, and then the pigs will drown themselves. Blind people can be cured with the hand.

 

People can walk on water.

 

Heaven is a real physical place up in the sky. Hell is below us, in the ground.

 

Bats are birds, and there are four-legged insects.

 

Pi is 3.0, not 3.14.

 

The Hebrews were enslaved by the Egyptians. (There is no evidence of this whatsoever on Earth. The Egyptians, fastidious record keepers, have no record of it, for example. We know about different pharoahs, their religion, the pyramids are there, but no record of Hebrew enslavement.)

 

The Bible doesn't specifically say how old the Earth is, but if Bishop Usher is correct the Earth is around 6,000 years old. That is about the time that the Sumerians invented glue, by the way.

 

Someday, Jesus will come back, and when he does all those who believe in him now will be taken physically up to Heaven.

 

Shall I go on? I am sure that most believers don't ponder these things regularly; rather they focus on the "fact" that Jesus loves them, etc. But, if Jesus is to be the Son of God (or if there is a god at all) all of the above MUST be true. It is in the Bible, and that is God's word. But we know that the above things are impossible.

 

Zombies are not real. What a cow looks at will not effect what the cow's offspring will look like. Donkeys and snakes don't talk. They have never talked. The Earth revolves around the Sun. The Earth is round. The Earth is 4.5 BILLION years old. Notice that if only ONE of the above is false, that makes the Bible, and Jesus false. Just one. And yet everything I posted is false It is in the Bible, but it is false.

 

So where does that leave us? Does this prove god does not exist? No. But it does prove that Jehovah, and by extension Jesus, do not exist. There may have been a man named Jesus living in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago, but he isn't god.

 

Why was there so much magic long ago, and no magic now? I know that it is because as knowledge advances, god gets smaller. This is known as "God of the Gaps." The more we learn about the natural world, the smaller and less powerful god gets.

 

Try praying. The Bible says that with prayer you can move mountains, and that nothing is impossible for you. It doesn't say, "Sometimes the answer is no, or you won't get it if god knows it is bad for you" or anything of the sort. When your prayers aren't answered, a non-scriptural ad hoc explanation is invoked to preserve the god-belief.

 

So try praying. Pray for something that would be easy for god to do, and could not be the result of probability. Pray for cancer to be cured tomorrow. Pray for starvation to be eliminated. Pray for Down's Syndrome to be a thing of the past. It won't happen. Remember, all things are possible if you have faith, and all a believer must do is ask and it will be granted. If this is not so, please post the scripture where God says that prayers will be answered at his discretion, provided that they are in line with His plan, etc.

 

Happy Easter--a pagan holiday co-opted by early Christians. Look it up.

[pureinheart]

To the last two posters/replies:

 

Your post sends a message of sarcasm. Sarcasm may be powerful to you, but it is a weakness. If you don't agree with what a person says, or their belief system, that is okay. There is no need for sarcasm as people can agree to disagree in a mature manor.

[Island Girl]

To the last two posters/replies:

 

Your post sends a message of sarcasm. Sarcasm may be powerful to you, but it is a weakness. If you don't agree with what a person says, or their belief system, that is okay. There is no need for sarcasm as people can agree to disagree in a mature manor.

 

Mine was a bit sarcastic I'll admit readily.

 

However, I disagree that Moai's was.

 

In any event I see you have nothing to say about the posts but for one comment regarding tonality.

[Love Hurts]

Wow Love Hurts, what a cool post....only read the first page of this thread, and agree, am a pre-tribber also as nothing else makes sence. God specifically states that he will not pour out wrath on the church, so the church MUST be taken out before the trib.

 

Oh yes, we are sooooo close....hey here is a video of the chip implantation thing.....

 

 

[COLOR=#003399]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7pHb7bPfMc[/COLOR]

 

This very interesting as to how close we REALLY are!!!!!!!!!

 

Praise Jesus for our Easter Celebration I pray all enjoyed and are enjoying their day in Praise and thanks to the Lord and that you have good company and more than enough to eat. God Bless all in this momentous occasion in the Lord.

 

 

Pureinheart, it so good to consider Home Soon! Praise the Lord for that thought. Your link offered does not seem to be working for me. Can you repost it?

 

Moai, I would never quote a date and I did not say seven years.

Actually I hope to go today that’s how soon I want to go… lol.

But no man knows the day or the hour. And only a fool would give a date as to when our Lord will call us Home.

 

God Bless*

[Moai]

To the last two posters/replies:

 

Your post sends a message of sarcasm. Sarcasm may be powerful to you, but it is a weakness. If you don't agree with what a person says, or their belief system, that is okay. There is no need for sarcasm as people can agree to disagree in a mature manor.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic. Do you mean to say that you don't believe those things, or you object to the way I described them?

[Moai]

Moai, I would never quote a date and I did not say seven years.

Actually I hope to go today that’s how soon I want to go… lol.

But no man knows the day or the hour. And only a fool would give a date as to when our Lord will call us Home.

 

God Bless*

 

Such is the correct scriptural response, it seems to me. And even though I don't believe in it, I do hope that you enjoyed your Easter celebrations.

[Love Hurts]

Such is the correct scriptural response, it seems to me. And even though I don't believe in it, I do hope that you enjoyed your Easter celebrations.

 

That’s sweet thank you Moai… the Lord was ahead of me [and us] as He planned the day in advance …when I wasn’t even considering it. God picked up my lack and brought the day together in His Glory.. God is good and faithful in all things.

 

Let me give more detail that you might see how God moved in this. Within the two weeks prior to Easter. Gifts began to arrive over the days… in preparation of the celebration of. Fish for Good Friday came and then entire Easter meal was delivered. My daughter brought eggs and dye my son brought logs for the fire and candy for the Easter Basket and the pre Easter house cleaning was done in greater detail by all as we had a visitor make us get every corner… a little mouse came to visit. Imagine that a mouse.

 

I lifted mattresses and cleaned under a bed laundered everything and scrubbed clean rooms and things in excess. Always hopeful to catch this mouse…. In the end of the third day the mouse hunt it was standing by the front door I opened the door and it walked out it flung its tail as if to say; ‘see ya and was it as good for you as it was for me?’ Well yes it was. Thank God for the little mouse that cause me to do more.

 

In the aftermath the house was perfect and all those gifts came together. My family was present some attended Easter Sunday Service some could not… and we had an early afternoon prayer and celebration here.

 

Moai the Lord sure does move in mysterious ways… The best way I can describe this Easter Celebration… is in two words. “God Delivered”

 

God Bless* you and yours.