How many Bibles are there?

[justpassingthrough]

What I see in the Bible is a story of people who are learning to deal with the world around them. They have some passed down oral traditions. the are moving from a culture of many gods to one that has one supreme God. As they advance the concept of this God changes.<snip>It is a narrative of people coming to terms with who they are . They deal with the world as best they can. They area small group of people with a lot of pride. They have to make their God bigger and better then the gods around them. It was away for them to feel good about themselves, despite their circumstances. For a great part of their history they were under the control of other People the Egyptians Syrians and Romans.

 

Ya know, Topper, I've always viewed the Bible as a beautiful piece of literature as well as a powerful political document. I never thought of it the way you've presented it. I just want to say thanks for the fresh view.

[Rooster_DAR]

Religion and god is an epoch that is archaic and is destined to die a slow death. The whole thing is so black and white to me it's not funny, gods were made up by humans bottom line. It's nice to see people who stop wasting their time on the fairy tales and use knowledge and science to propagate a better human facility that can carry us on into the future. Religion is causing way too many problems with the human race than it's doing any good.

 

Now, cast your stones if you will!

[a4a]

Parents indoctrinate their Kids in a sorts of things. From favorite Sports Teams to how they view their heritage. To How they see themselves in the world. Religion is just one more thing. Like anything it can be good and it can also be used for the wrong reasons. What i don't buy into is the we are better then them because we are baptist or Lutheran or Catholics. Or whatever even atheist. Once a kid reaches a time when they are mature enough I think then they should be allow to explore and see what feels right to them.

 

That is rarely allowed. They usually have it driven into their heads so hard at a young age that exploring other religions becomes a sin to them...... that is what they are taught.

[Topper]

a4a, I would say you are right in the very narrow strict religions, like fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims. It is hard to break free from that kind of environment without being a very strong person. I live in an area that has a very large Mormon population. For them it is even harder because Chruch means more then just Chruch. it is all your friends family, it is your entire community. If you break free you can feel as if your whole world is lost. I work with a few gay men and a few lesbians that were brought up in the LDS Chruch. Coming to terms with who they are and coming out of the closet was very hard for them. Most still have some are still very spiritual. They still believe in God. they just can't believe in a God that hates People for any reason.

[Moai]

You're knockng down a straw man and his straw followers. That should tell you zero about reasonable people.

 

Trying...not...to...post...on...this...thread. Arg!!!

 

PS Do you know what happens when parents raise their children with no religious traditions? They go out and find some when they become hungry for the spiritual. Of course, all adults will choose their own roads anyway. But this is a road that is very easy to get lost on with no guideposts, IMO.

 

Your above paragraph is interesting, but betrays a lack of understanding of atheism, at the very least.

 

When I raise my children, I will inform them that there are no gods, devils, etc. That will be my family's "spiritual tradition." My girlfriend's family had no religious traditions--not even atheism, really--and she is an atheist now. She does believe in ghosts, though. I think is more for the spooky factor than anything. Hey, nobody is perfect.

 

What the above also implies is that there is a "right" and a "wrong" spiritual path, and that it is important to get the child on the right one. Which, of course, is the one that their parents are on.

 

Most people are raised with religious tradition, yet they fall for cults and charlatans. How can someone who is raised in the correct traditions fall for these things? It comes from magical thinking and god-belief in the first place. There are many people who are in established churches who become entrapped in dangerous groups because of their "spiritual" needs and longing. What if these people were given the tools to think more skeptically instead?

 

Watch BET late night on Sunday. There are men on there who want to give you "New LARGER miracle spring water!" and tape themselves supposedly healing people, people who testify that they received financial rewards, and the like. All one need do is tithe...There was another guy who offered some kind of magical handkerchief, I think. One of them was Robert Preston, who was caught by James Randi using an earpiece and then passing it off as the Holy Spirit leading him to whomever was to be "healed." And he is still on television.

 

The reason he is successful, and other like him, is because of the belief that faith healing works, that prayer works, and that if you BELIEVE enough you are rewarded. No amount of evidence showing that these are con men matters. It is truly sad. It is because of religious traditions that this is possible.

[Storyrider]

Your above paragraph is interesting, but betrays a lack of understanding of atheism, at the very least.

 

When I raise my children, I will inform them that there are no gods, devils, etc. That will be my family's "spiritual tradition." My girlfriend's family had no religious traditions--not even atheism, really--and she is an atheist now. She does believe in ghosts, though. I think is more for the spooky factor than anything. Hey, nobody is perfect.

 

What the above also implies is that there is a "right" and a "wrong" spiritual path, and that it is important to get the child on the right one. Which, of course, is the one that their parents are on.

 

Most people are raised with religious tradition, yet they fall for cults and charlatans. How can someone who is raised in the correct traditions fall for these things? It comes from magical thinking and god-belief in the first place. There are many people who are in established churches who become entrapped in dangerous groups because of their "spiritual" needs and longing. What if these people were given the tools to think more skeptically instead?

 

Watch BET late night on Sunday. There are men on there who want to give you "New LARGER miracle spring water!" and tape themselves supposedly healing people, people who testify that they received financial rewards, and the like. All one need do is tithe...There was another guy who offered some kind of magical handkerchief, I think. One of them was Robert Preston, who was caught by James Randi using an earpiece and then passing it off as the Holy Spirit leading him to whomever was to be "healed." And he is still on television.

 

The reason he is successful, and other like him, is because of the belief that faith healing works, that prayer works, and that if you BELIEVE enough you are rewarded. No amount of evidence showing that these are con men matters. It is truly sad. It is because of religious traditions that this is possible.

 

I don't feel that there is only one right way. I do believe that some ways are better than others, but that is not really the point either.

 

I just know I felt better when I started believing in God, that life made more sense to me, and I was happier. I grew up without God, and I feel it was a deficit. That is really it for explaining where I'm coming from, and why I want my kids to know about God.

 

This is purely a curiosity question Moai, and I'm not going to argue with you about your answer, I'm just wondering--do you think you will have any rituals and traditions in your household, with your children? If so, what will you base them on?

[Moai]

I don't feel that there is only one right way. I do believe that some ways are better than others, but that is not really the point either.

 

I just know I felt better when I started believing in God, that life made more sense to me, and I was happier. I grew up without God, and I feel it was a deficit. That is really it for explaining where I'm coming from, and why I want my kids to know about God.

 

This is purely a curiosity question Moai, and I'm not going to argue with you about your answer, I'm just wondering--do you think you will have any rituals and traditions in your household, with your children? If so, what will you base them on?

 

Thank you, but feel free to argue if you wish. It won't hurt my feelings, and I always appreciate the views of those who think differently.

 

I can't say with certainty that we won't have any rituals, but we will certainly have traditions. It won't be entirely up to me, I am sure, but we will probably celebrate Christmas, as the kids love it and it doesn't have to be "christ-centered" or anything. Other than that I don't know.

 

It might be fun to perform different rituals or celebrate holidays that were once popular, or are popular now with different religions, for the educational value as well as just for the hell of it.

 

The way my family is now we celebrate Christmas (mainly for my mother, now, and my niece and nephew), and we got out to a nice dinner on Easter--emotionally for my mother, me for the food! In all these instances there are no prayers or anything, nor do we talk about god at all. It is more a convenient time to all get together as a family. It'll probably be something like that.

 

Good question.

[Rooster_DAR]

Religion and god is an epoch that is archaic and is destined to die a slow death. The whole thing is so black and white to me it's not funny, gods were made up by humans bottom line. It's nice to see people who stop wasting their time on the fairy tales and use knowledge and science to propagate a better human facility that can carry us on into the future. Religion is causing way too many problems with the human race than it's doing any good.

 

Now, cast your stones if you will!

 

 

Hmmmm...I didn't get hammered for my opinion? Wow, I guess I'm just being ignored, which is probably a good position.

 

D'oh!

[burning 4 revenge]

Hmmmm...I didn't get hammered for my opinion? Wow, I guess I'm just being ignored, which is probably a good position.

 

D'oh!

Well you didn't say anything that most people don't already think.

[johan]

I think everyone should try to read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.

[Rooster_DAR]

Well you didn't say anything that most people don't already think.

 

Good point!

[princessa]

PS Do you know what happens when parents raise their children with no religious traditions? They go out and find some when they become hungry for the spiritual. Of course, all adults will choose their own roads anyway. But this is a road that is very easy to get lost on with no guideposts, IMO.

 

I understand that this opinion might have been due to your own experience.. but you are wrong in making this generalization.

 

My parents are not religious at all, and I was raised with no knowledge whatsoever about religious traditions or had any form of religious guildelines influence my development. Did that result in me getting lost somewhere on my path to adulthood? Did that result in me making the wrong decisions in my life because I couldn't tell wrong from right? Not at all. I couldn't say the same things about a lot of so-called spiritual people, who follow the guideposts they were imposed as children, and yet manage to get lost because these guideposts just don't quite match what's happening in the real world.

 

Ask yourself, how is it possible that people like myself, who grew up with no religious background, are able to build a strong moral basis for themselves? Without a Bible, and without any outside spiritual guidance? How is it possible that so many of us didn't grow up to be f*ck ups, debauchers and criminals?

 

I will add on the topic of parenting and religion, that I still wish that my parents at least spoke to me about the different world's religions, as part of my general education.. but then again there are a lot of other things that I wish that my parents spoke more to me about, like their views on politics, for example. I find myself jealous of kids who got to discuss all these issues in their households. Not because I believe that a kid should absorb their parents' points of view on these topics, but because I find that if the parents have strong opinions on one topic or another, and at the same time encourage their kids to seek out alternative points of view, it becomes a great motivation for the kid to go out and do research for himself.. if anything, to contradict his parents!

 

It also cuts down your research time in half when you already have in-depth knowledge of one of the sides of the story.. And what greater motivation to debate than to be able to talk to somebody who's passionate about a certain topic?

 

Personally I've suffered from this a great deal, because my parents have let me form my opinions and get educated completely on my own about pretty much everything that I know now. I don't blame them, I'm sure they did the best they could, but I just wish they spent more time talking to me about what they knew and what they believed, in an educational manner. I think I would have been much more knowledgeable and would have had much more interest in learning about the things of this world.

 

I think that a parent should be like a great teacher for his kids... A great teacher to me is somebody who's passionate about what he's teaching, somebody who sees the beauty in his subject.. And somebody who strives to be as objective as possible in his teachings in order to open up the mind of his pupils to various perspectives, so that he, in turn, can learn from them too once their opinions start to form... Although that's not to say that traditions or parental influence should be completely avoided.

[Storyrider]

I think everyone should try to read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.

 

I agree. Even those who disagree with it could use it as a chance to fine tune their counter-arguments. I listened to it as a book on tape on a car trip a few years ago.

[Storyrider]

I understand that this opinion might have been due to your own experience.. but you are wrong in making this generalization.

 

My parents are not religious at all, and I was raised with no knowledge whatsoever about religious traditions or had any form of religious guildelines influence my development. Did that result in me getting lost somewhere on my path to adulthood? Did that result in me making the wrong decisions in my life because I couldn't tell wrong from right? Not at all. I couldn't say the same things about a lot of so-called spiritual people, who follow the guideposts they were imposed as children, and yet manage to get lost because these guideposts just don't quite match what's happening in the real world.

 

Thanks Princessa; I think you misunderstood me. I would never say that non-religious people can't be good people. I was thinking more of an adult with zero background in any religion, trying to choose one for herself. So my analogy with the road was referring to the confusing prospect of picking a religion coming from a blank slate. I understand that individuals can be moral and good without believing in God.

[princessa]

Thanks Princessa; I think you misunderstood me. I would never say that non-religious people can't be good people. I was thinking more of an adult with zero background in any religion, trying to choose one for herself. So my analogy with the road was referring to the confusing prospect of picking a religion coming from a blank slate. I understand that individuals can be moral and good without believing in God.

 

Well as you can see, picking a religion at some point in adulthood is not necessary for the proper development of a human being.

 

Also, suppose that you did decide to pick a religion later on in life.. Wouldn't you prefer to be able to make an educated choice for yourself, as opposed to just mimmic what your parents were doing? It is much easier to be lazy about your own (religious, in this case) education when you already have somebody else's opinion instilled in your mind beforehand. Coming from a "blank state", you are forced to do the proper research and educate yourself, asking the proper questions before you make any decisions with regards to your path in life. I'd venture to say that this is probaby the very reason why people like me don't find any interest in applying religion in their lives once they learn about it.

[Storyrider]

Well as you can see, picking a religion at some point in adulthood is not necessary for the proper development of a human being.

 

Also, suppose that you did decide to pick a religion later on in life.. Wouldn't you prefer to be able to make an educated choice for yourself, as opposed to just mimmic what your parents were doing? It is much easier to be lazy about your own (religious, in this case) education when you already have somebody else's opinion instilled in your mind beforehand. Coming from a "blank state", you are forced to do the proper research and educate yourself, asking the proper questions before you make any decisions with regards to your path in life. I'd venture to say that this is probaby the very reason why people like me don't find any interest in applying religion in their lives once they learn about it.

 

I'm sure many would agree with you.

 

I was raised with a Jewish background but with no belief in God at all--my family just practiced the Jewish rituals for social reasons. In my early twenties I was going through a rough time, and the idea that there was a higher power at first seemed silly to me. But I also secretly longed to believe it.

 

I had a general distrust towards people, a feeling of emptiness and meaninglessness and a kind of "so what?" attitude about the choices I made. So I was making lots of bad choices. And I felt burdened, and in fact, pretty much overwhelmed, by stress and worry and fear.

 

The day something clicked for me, I was walking down the street, and I saw this huge old tree with its branches swaying and green leaves fluttering in the breeze, reflecting the sunlight. It suddenly seemed to me that God was sending me love by creating such beauty and giving me the capacity to appreciate it. And it was like a wave of comfort and relief washed over me, and I didn't feel alone any more. Not that I never felt lonely again, and of course my problems weren't all solved, haha. I have even had many doubtful moments since that day. But it was the beginning of something.

 

Just my personal story. I know everyone's experience is different.

[Topper]

[

 

The day something clicked for me, I was walking down the street, and I saw this huge old tree with its branches swaying and green leaves fluttering in the breeze, reflecting the sunlight. It suddenly seemed to me that God was sending me love by creating such beauty and giving me the capacity to appreciate it. And it was like a wave of comfort and relief washed over me, and I didn't feel alone any more. Not that I never felt lonely again, and of course my problems weren't all solved, haha. I have even had many doubtful moments since that day. But it was the beginning of something.

 

Just my personal story. I know everyone's experience is different.

 

 

I like that storyrider. Nature can show us that there is more out there and more then one way to connect.

[princessa]

I was raised with a Jewish background but with no belief in God at all--my family just practiced the Jewish rituals for social reasons. In my early twenties I was going through a rough time, and the idea that there was a higher power at first seemed silly to me. But I also secretly longed to believe it.

 

I had a general distrust towards people, a feeling of emptiness and meaninglessness and a kind of "so what?" attitude about the choices I made. So I was making lots of bad choices. And I felt burdened, and in fact, pretty much overwhelmed, by stress and worry and fear.

 

Some people turn to philosophy to search the answers to their emptiness... Having a religious background would have perhaps shielded you from this feeling of emptiness that you've discovered at adulthood.. but wouldn't it have been a false sense of safety? Isn't the fact that "something" clicked for you at some point in your life worth so much more because you've made that discovery on your own and through your own choices and reflections, as opposed to something that's just been there all along and taken for granted? I think there's a good reason why in some religions (namely Judaism), the people who convert are regarded with more respect than those who were born into the religion. It means that they are much more convinced of their faith.

[Love Hurts]

Wikipedia has:

 

4,194 versions of the Christian bible.

 

6,314 versions of the bible.

 

1,793 Hebrew versions of the Old Testament

 

only 582 version of the Koran.

 

I didn't even query the rest.

 

Wow I didn't know there were so many version of the Christian bible -- they encompass 2/3 of the versions listed.

 

It is supposed to be written by God for His people - and He clearly states it is not subject to interpretation. It is His word as He wants it followed.

 

So why so many?

 

This is interesting. I didn’t realize there were so many languages in the world.

 

Linguists estimate that there are 6,809 "living" languages in the world today.

 

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0515-05.htm

 

http://www.ask.com/web?q=6%2C809+languages+in+the+world&qsrc=0&o=333&l=dir

[Fun2BMe]

In some of our debates here, Faithful Christians more often then Not Quote the Bible. But what Bible do they use? Is the one they use the right Bible?

I have counted at least 8 different versions of the Bible.

The Protestant Bible has 66 Books in it yet at one time it did have more.

The Roman Catholic has 73 books. The Anglican Chruch is a mix of Catholic and Protestant Bibles

 

I don't think your question and the answers from yourself and the other posters are consistent or accurate. You ask how many different bibles there are and then list the different number of books contained within a bible, while others are considering the different number of editions as different versions of the bible which technically is not an accurate statement.

 

Different sects of religions accept different books into the accepted canon within their religion. For example Judaism and Christianity both include the book of Psalms (and Genesis etc.) in their canon, but that doesn't mean there are different versions of the book of Psalms. There can be thousands of different editions, just like there are thousands of editions of the bible by different publishers but it doesn't mean there are as many different versions, with each altering the story and words.

 

One religion's bible, for example the Protestants, can include 66 books. But Judaism for example includes 24 - 5 books from the book of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) 8 from the Prophets and 11 from the Writings. The Protestant's bible may include these 24 books, but in addition they obviously have included many other books that the Jews do not accept into their canon. It doesn't mean the Protestant's Genesis is written differently and there are 10000 different versions of that book/bible. The words can be identical. So the different 'bibles' means the different books within one's bible.

 

(Except for example the Mormons who have a whole different bible that is not even a re-write of the one from 2000+ years ago, it's one that was newly written a hundred or so years ago so you can't consider it as a different version of the bible. It is an entirely different bible, called "The Book of Mormon". I think that is also true of Islam, it was developed a thousand or so years ago and they may have hundreds of different editions printed over the years but it doesn't mean the version of the stories have changed in each of those editions, just like when a popular sci fi book may get published again but it doesn't mean it's a different version or story from the original. It might only be in a different language or include an intro another edition didn't have)

 

Hope this helps to clear up some things.

[Topper]

Fun2beme,

Your argument is that all the versions say the same thing. It just isn't true. many of the Bibles have variations on the text within the books that make up the Bible. It isn't just a matter of different books added to or omitted from the Bible. One story or passage from say the Eastern Orthodox Bible will not say the same thing as the same passage in the King James Bible. The same for the Coptic Bible and so on. Many Scholars will tell you that the translation of the King James Bible is often very inaccurate. Hebrew Scholars say that most of the old testament in the KJ Bible is a poor translation at best.

[Fun2BMe]

Fun2beme,

Your argument is that all the versions say the same thing. It just isn't true. many of the Bibles have variations on the text within the books that make up the Bible. It isn't just a matter of different books added to or omitted from the Bible. One story or passage from say the Eastern Orthodox Bible will not say the same thing as the same passage in the King James Bible. The same for the Coptic Bible and so on. Many Scholars will tell you that the translation of the King James Bible is often very inaccurate. Hebrew Scholars say that most of the old testament in the KJ Bible is a poor translation at best.

 

But the bottom line is that all the translations are based off of the original manuscripts. KJ is hundreds of years old and since then there have been improved translations used by other translators. Different people interpret the writings differently, but the official versions are the same. For example no version says the world was created in 1 or 10 days, they all say 7 days. The verbs they use can alter to express the same thing, that's why there's so many different translatins to choose from but at the end of the day you're not getting different info from each source! Except for the mormon book which is completely based on a brand new writing that has nothing to do with the bible in this thread. Anyways, I took a comparative lit class on this at the university, maybe the prof. was wrong! I took out my old notes to refresh my memory about this and the title of the thread was like oh I know about this! But whatever, maybe I"m wrong. Of course being the best selling book of all time everyone's going to say that their translated version is the most accurate or the best, but at the end of the day if you read one version, you will be fine. And if you learn the original languages they were written in - Hebrew and Aramaic, then you can read it in its original version and that of course is the best version.

[Topper]

They may all say in 7 days yet in some old Genesis text there is Adam's first wife Lilith. Eve only comes later because Adam was unhappy with Lilith. this version does not appear in the King James bible but it is in the Jewish text. That makes Genesis a very different story. There are also different time lines on when things were created. Different Bibles also have a Different order of the 10 commandments. No big deal right? The theory is first commandments are the ones that are given more wieght by God. Yes even the commandments a different.

If as Born again Christians claim The Bible is the absolute word of God then there would be no need for better translations ever. Every scribe from the first to the last would have copied every word as it was written by the one before him. Every translation would be spot on and accurate. Yet the dead sea scrolls are showing scholars that there were variations on the text.

While reading on sexuality and what the Bible has to say on that I came across an interesting new Christian movement that claims that the Bible has never banned polygamy. They claim that the Greek word for one can also mean first. So in Paul's letters did he mean one wife or how to treat the First wife? Old testament law does say that the first wife is to be treated with more respect.

In that case one small word can change the whole meaning of what we take to be Christian marriage.

It is also noted that the word adultery in the ancient hebrew text might only apply to woman. In other words, a man can have sex outside of marriage but a woman can not. In the 10 commandments it say a man should not covet another mans wife. Yet it does not say a a woman should not covet a wife's husband.

 

I need to do more research on this but I understand that the Coptic and the Eastern Orthodox Bible are in many parts vastly different then the king James Bible.

[Fun2BMe]

The Commandments themselves are not different. Jews for example group the "2nd and 3rd" commandments together all under the 2nd commandment (you shall have no other Gods, you shall not make idols), whereas Catholics combine 2nd and 3rd commandments along with the first (I am your Lord your God). Then Jews group the 9th and 10th commandments together (you shall not covet your neighbors wife, you shall not covet your neighbor's house) and catholics separate them as nine and 10 and they all end up with 10 commandments with the same exact info in it, just grouped differently. (oh and the orthdox is a third scenerio where they group the first and second commandments together as the first:laugh: and then group the ninth and 10th together like the jews).

 

So again, there are different religions because they interpret things differently (whether each of the 7 days of creation consisted of 10000 years or 24 hours as we know it are different interpretations of the SAME WORDS, not different versions of those words. And all of the translations are based on the same words, but different translators do things different linguistically and churches pick those that resemble their interpretations of the same universal version of the single bible).

[Island Girl]

So again, there are different religions because they interpret things differently (whether each of the 7 days of creation consisted of 10000 years or 24 hours as we know it are different interpretations of the SAME WORDS, not different versions of those words. And all of the translations are based on the same words, but different translators do things different linguistically and churches pick those that resemble their interpretations of the same universal version of the single bible).

 

There actually is no "universal version of the bible".

 

The versions of the bible state different things - in some versions completely different.

 

This is supposed to be the literal word of God. As such there should only been one version -- one translation into each language.

 

But there isn't.

 

If it is indeed the word of God then all of His words are important, are they not? So all of the books of the bible should be included in any representation of what God actually said.

 

It is not up to man in any way shape or form to make up different interpretations, or decide what is valid to include and what is unnecessary in the first place -- at least that is what God says.

 

However, man has found it necessary to do so.

 

So the question to the LS posters out there, which one is right?

 

And how do you come to that conclusion?