any way to 'know' if a second chance might come?

[CaliGuy]

Okay, Faith, I was with you on what you said in your longer post above, but I'm not sure I agree that I am a "chronic boundary violator." I called him at work after trying him on his cell and noting that he refused to pick up. I was still very much in shock and just couldn't believe he ended it like he did and didn't want to speak to me. And during the relationship, I first asked, then begged, and finally demanded that he communicate his needs to me as well as suggest a solution that works for us both rather than leaving me always to do the dirty work. Once he explained to me that he likes to think things over first before offering an opinion whereas I think through discussion with people. And I tried to respect that; I'd say, "Okay, we don't have to keep talking about it for now" and he's say, "Thanks; I'll bring it up tomorrow," and I'd say, "Okay" but then he'd never bring it up, even after several days. And then when I'd say, "Remember that issue from a few days ago?" He'd get defensive. ANd that frustrated me so much that yes, I became more pushy than I ever would otherwise. (And I do feel very badly about that, but I feel in part I was driven to it; I don't yet see what an alternative way to deal with the dynamic woudl have been--What could I have done differently?)

 

the rest of your post, about energy levels, I'm mulling over and will respond in a bit. Some of that really rang true. And I'm interested in hearing about your situation with the German guy; are you still together?

 

 

GC, he was telling you "tomorrow" to get you to drop it today. He wasn't ready to talk about things, but you kept pushing him to. You were cornering him, shoving him in a cage so to speak and he was doing his best to get out of the cage.

 

You can't force someone to love you much less force them to talk to you. His heart needed to change on it's own but you kept pushing his buttons, clearly when he wasn't ready.

 

Then when he finally told you it was over you still refused to accept it. Even when he made it clear as day.

 

The problem right now isn't him.

 

It's you.

 

You need to get yourself into the right frame of mind and leave him alone. You can not control him or what he does. The only thing you are in control of is you and your life.

 

You're wasting so much emotional energy trying to figure out why he did what he did when really I think you already know the answers. He fell out of love with you. It happens to people every single day.

 

The difference is most people will accept it and move on and not press to get an answer to something most men can't even explain. He tried his best to explain it. He told you he didn't want to hear from you again. He actually had to hang up on you to stop. You even called him at work.

 

I'm sorry but many times you crossed the line. I agree above that you don't understand boundaries. You crossed his so many times that he turned tail and ran.

 

Stop beating yourself up over an answer. We're all sympathetic to your plight. Heck, most of us have been there. In fact, you and I are a lot alike. We want answers and we want them now.

 

The problem is, you have your answers and you still won't accept it. You really did push him to the point where he demanded you leave him alone. If you keep pressing him for answers, if you keep trying to contact him you will have crossed over into the "obsessive" zone.

 

I really, really, really hope that you'll go see a Counselor. They will help get you into the right frame of mind.

 

Hang out with friends. Dive into new hobbies, go to the gym, work on your career and most of all, work on you. Those are all things you can do to help better yourself and learn to be happy again.

 

Obsessing over why he did what he did is getting you nowhere, wasting your emotional energy (energy better spent on making you happy) on him is draining you.

 

You are essentially living in the past now. What's done is done and can not be changed no matter how hard you try. All you have control over is TODAY and NOW. Live for now, not for what happened yesterday.

[bridget_jones]

BJ, I agree with you that hanging up is jerky. But did you read all the way through GreenCove's last two posts?

 

Call me a jerk too. I've hung up on my guy when he escalated into intense arguing.... he could get easily carried away... LDRs put a terrible strain on one's emotions. Yet I would never hang up without first giving him fair warning: "Stop and cool off now, or else I need to hang up and take a time-out." If he kept hammering at me, I'd say; "I'm hanging up now" and place the receiver back in the hook.

 

It was a struggle to keep him from overstepping my boundaries, worst of all when he would phone me at work. Did you read the part about GreenCove phoning her ex at work? That's symptomatic of chronic boundary violation.

 

I'm not trying to excuse her ex's behavior. I'm trying to get her to recognize her own reactive behavior both then and right now, and the damage she's doing to herself by continually flailing against the wall of this breakup.

 

Ok. I like what you have to say here.

Greencove, it has been since early Jan. when he broke up with you, correct? It's time to stop analyzing what could have been and if you did anything wrong. He was probably thinking about breaking up for a while before he did it and could have been emotionally checked out of the relationship already when he did it. A guy who broke up with me a few years ago told me he had been having doubts about us for several months before he decided to break up. I had no clue he felt that way. He was trying to make it work in his head, but he just wasn't happy in the relationship with me. So when he broke up with me, I had all of the confused, angry, hysterically sad emotions but he had come to terms with ending the relationship already. But usually....once a guy makes his mind up, he has made his mind up. I agree with Faith, you two seem really incompatible. You communicate differently. Also I get the impression that his friends and family expressed concerns about his relationship with you. A lot of guys take that seriously. His alliance with his family and friends seems to outweigh his alliance with you. That is a tough barrier also. In addition, are you sure he didn't move not only because of you, but because he wanted to live on the West Coast, also? It's not like he's rushing to move back to the East coast or anything.

You just have to have faith that things will get better. Trust me, he is not the last guy you will ever love. I'm willing to bet that in a year from now, you will be happy with a wonderful guy and wonder why you spent so much time being upset over this guy.

[Zapbasket]

CaliGuy, I appreciate so much everything you say on here, but I really don't think I have a boundary problem. I think I have a problem asserting my needs and sticking to my guns when they're not being met.

 

I have been NC for nearly two months come this Friday--and 8 weeks exactly come Tuesday. He sent me that e-mail, I immediately sent that reply--more to have some decent words pass between us as our last than anything else--and never called nor e-mailed since.

 

As for not respecting his desire to end the relationship at first, he didn't end it in a decent way befitting a 5-year relationship, I don't care whether he was out of love with me or not. I'm sorry but this notion that people have "no obligation" to the person they've dumped once they've dumped them does not jibe with me. If you've been dating for a very short time, then yes. But five years is a long time, and to end it by telling the other person it's all their fault in every way, that the failure is theirs, and to not even have the balls to do it to the person's face at first, is really tacky. Yes, I was owed more than that and I can feel that way and still respect the fact that he wanted to end it. I don't think I harbored any fantasy that if he really wanted to end it, I could change his mind. I wanted the respect granted me of ending it without blaming me for everything, and doing it to my face.

 

In the relationship, I think it was unacceptable to not want to discuss issues, boundaries or no. I respected all his boundaries in the beginning: he only wanted to talk on the phone for 15-20 minutes at a time and I respected that, even though his mode of getting off the phone was to sigh and grunt and then drop out of the conversation altogether; he was constantly irritated with me about something or other but then when I tried to talk it out with him, he wouldn't want to, and I tried to respect that at first. But in a LDR that just can't work. I agree that I shouldn't have gotten to the point that I demanded he address issues with me; perhaps I should have given him an ultimatum and if he didn't change, I should have broken up with him. Because boundaries are one thing, but avoidance is something else. Besides, I was continually asking him, "What do you want--from me, from this relationship, from life?" And he never told me, but was fine with resenting me. That was not okay, and the more I think about it, the more I feel it was not okay.

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy, I appreciate so much everything you say on here, but I really don't think I have a boundary problem. I think I have a problem asserting my needs and sticking to my guns when they're not being met.

 

I have been NC for nearly two months come this Friday--and 8 weeks exactly come Tuesday. He sent me that e-mail, I immediately sent that reply--more to have some decent words pass between us as our last than anything else--and never called nor e-mailed since.

 

As for not respecting his desire to end the relationship at first, he didn't end it in a decent way befitting a 5-year relationship, I don't care whether he was out of love with me or not. I'm sorry but this notion that people have "no obligation" to the person they've dumped once they've dumped them does not jibe with me. If you've been dating for a very short time, then yes. But five years is a long time, and to end it by telling the other person it's all their fault in every way, that the failure is theirs, and to not even have the balls to do it to the person's face at first, is really tacky. Yes, I was owed more than that and I can feel that way and still respect the fact that he wanted to end it. I don't think I harbored any fantasy that if he really wanted to end it, I could change his mind. I wanted the respect granted me of ending it without blaming me for everything, and doing it to my face.

 

In the relationship, I think it was unacceptable to not want to discuss issues, boundaries or no. I respected all his boundaries in the beginning: he only wanted to talk on the phone for 15-20 minutes at a time and I respected that, even though his mode of getting off the phone was to sigh and grunt and then drop out of the conversation altogether; he was constantly irritated with me about something or other but then when I tried to talk it out with him, he wouldn't want to, and I tried to respect that at first. But in a LDR that just can't work. I agree that I shouldn't have gotten to the point that I demanded he address issues with me; perhaps I should have given him an ultimatum and if he didn't change, I should have broken up with him. Because boundaries are one thing, but avoidance is something else. Besides, I was continually asking him, "What do you want--from me, from this relationship, from life?" And he never told me, but was fine with resenting me. That was not okay, and the more I think about it, the more I feel it was not okay.

 

Based on everything you've said about him, I would suggest making a list of his bad qualities and sticking it up somewhere where you can read it every day, especially when you start to think fondly of him.

 

From your description of him, you should be thanking the Lord you're out of that relationship and can now find someone who appreciates you for who you are.

[Ssheena]

You are right to have wanted a different ending but no matter what you say now and the way you look at it now and how much you analyse it - it is unfortunately over.

 

There is absolutely nothing you can do about it now.

 

I agree with CaliGuy.

[AriaIncognito]

I have to say, after reading this thread, forget about my ex. I want to be with CaliGuy! :-)

 

CG you have so much to offer and so much wisdom (esp for a guy hehe ) i hope you keep posting and helping. Your words have helped me more than you know today.

[CaliGuy]

I have to say, after reading this thread, forget about my ex. I want to be with CaliGuy! :-)

 

CG you have so much to offer and so much wisdom (esp for a guy hehe ) i hope you keep posting and helping. Your words have helped me more than you know today.

 

Thanks

 

I'm really good at seeing other people's problems for what they are, objectively. What is hard is for me to see my OWN problems objectively and make the correct adjustments. That's why I come here so that you guys can help keep me on an even keel. It's hard to do what your brain says is right when you're heart keeps getting in the way. Just follow the "What's my ex up to?" thread for proof

[Zapbasket]

Ariawoman, I agree! Everyone has been so helpful and the discussions on these threads really help uplift my spirits because through reading them I can begin to find some of the understanding I'm seeking. And it's such a relief to read about other people going through the same thing.

 

CaliGuy, I wish I could thank my lucky stars I'm out of that relationship, but that was just one side of him and I loved the whole package, I really did. I just wonder whether I was too hard on him about communication, or whether it was right of me to begin demanding that he tell me what's up. I never wanted to be the one who called the shots in the relationship--something he accused me of doing--but rather, I wanted a partner who could work with me to make this relationship better.

 

All so, so sad...but I have cried enough today. My strategy, I decided, is that as long as I take a step each day towards moving forward, it's okay for me to cry and try to understand what happened in my relationship and how I could be a better girlfriend in the future. Tomorrow, to counterbalance today, I'm going for a long morning run!

[dr strangelove]

Well greencove

I been reading your thread.. its very interesting. I have read it from the start again as I didnt pick up everything at first.

 

I know whatever I write will be mostly disregarded, as you most likely have you own agenda and perhaps my words and common sense dont fit into that..

in any case..

 

The whole situation reminds me of a similar one.

Im not saying who this is but I was given a play by play..i

 

A guy met a girl.. he was realy crazy about her and he started right away bending a few of his own rules and making comprimises. And the girl did things that really got on his nerves at times and he first tried to tell her nicely.. and then she didnt listen as she did them again. And some of these things were just common sense.

 

In any case since she kept doing them and he had to be a more firm and got increasingly frustrated with her. Whenever she did these things he wondered

is this the same person that claims they are crazy about me..

But I guess she just didnt quite get that as much as he was crazy about her

alot of things she did ended up hurting him. Perhaps this was because she was very sensitive too and more in tune with herself then having a partner.

 

In any case after awhile he got fed up and started taking time outs from her

not answering the phone and other things.. problem was he missed her terribly even thogh she got on his nerves

 

But he figured why should I have to explain all these common sense things like

Oh I dunno things like you had problems with like money for example

He was always buying her meals and stuff.. and see my friend here questioned wheter she wanted him for his wallet or to love and cherish. Well I knew that she was really into him but it was hard to explain to him to look past her ways.

 

And so.. eventually he wrote her emails asking to break up and she held some of his stuff hostage. and her response to his request was frigging comical she was say no your not breaking up with me.

 

They would be ok for a while and he even learned to accept some of her odd ways like calling him at 4am and waking him up. But she still did alot of other things and it always seemed a but unfair to him.

 

Then one day he told her stop calling him and to leave him alone and I remember him telling me about that day and him saying oh Ill hear from her in a week..

 

And that was it she left.

 

Now where the story of these 2 has ended up is a story for another day.

 

I just wanted you to get an idea from his side. You can pat yourself on the back all you want but, if you really wish to

 

reunite with your ex.. which you secretly do. I am afraid that yopu will have to make some changes and perhaps counselling. And a counsellor could help you better understand why he did things

 

And you could try sending your ex a short email or a call or find where he hangs out and say hi very briefly... actually Id get a bit of counselling first

and then you could send off something simple

 

But I hope my post to your thread sinks in with you.. Im hoping this makes some sense to you and take heed..hes pretty much laid out his reasons for leaving you.. I would say if you were willing to make a few compromises of your own that anything is possible.

 

In any case, ultimately the choice is yours and it all starts with you.

 

ciao

[Zapbasket]

Dr. Strangelove, thanks for your thoughts but I'm not sure I understand; what are you saying and is this story something you experienced? Also, are you recommending I contact my ex? I would love to, and I'd love to have opportunity to tell him that if we got back together I'd change ___ and ___ and that ____ has already changed, but he effectively cut me off from doing that. Also, I'm not sure I'd even want to get back with him if he never acknowledged his role in our problems.

 

Anyway, I'm interested in what you have to say; will you please clarify? Thanks

[corazoncito]

Also, I'm not sure I'd even want to get back with him if he never acknowledged his role in our problems.

 

I'm glad you feel that way. It wouldn't be healthy for your if you did.

 

I've been following your threads and I feel really badly for the hurt you're going through. Please try to see a counselor. You are having a really hard time getting through this alone and it doesn't sound like you are able to turn to friends and family for support.

 

I hope you don't feel like people are saying the breakup is 100% your fault. The reason everyone is commenting on your actions is that they are only hearing your side of the story and can only speak to you. It sounds like there were many shared communication problems and very fundamental incompatibilities in this relationship from the very start.

[bridget_jones]

Caliguy was pretty much restating what everyone else had already stated.

[bridget_jones]

Well greencove

I been reading your thread.. its very interesting. I have read it from the start again as I didnt pick up everything at first.

 

I know whatever I write will be mostly disregarded, as you most likely have you own agenda and perhaps my words and common sense dont fit into that..

in any case..

 

The whole situation reminds me of a similar one.

Im not saying who this is but I was given a play by play..i

 

A guy met a girl.. he was realy crazy about her and he started right away bending a few of his own rules and making comprimises. And the girl did things that really got on his nerves at times and he first tried to tell her nicely.. and then she didnt listen as she did them again. And some of these things were just common sense.

 

In any case since she kept doing them and he had to be a more firm and got increasingly frustrated with her. Whenever she did these things he wondered

is this the same person that claims they are crazy about me..

But I guess she just didnt quite get that as much as he was crazy about her

alot of things she did ended up hurting him. Perhaps this was because she was very sensitive too and more in tune with herself then having a partner.

 

In any case after awhile he got fed up and started taking time outs from her

not answering the phone and other things.. problem was he missed her terribly even thogh she got on his nerves

 

But he figured why should I have to explain all these common sense things like

Oh I dunno things like you had problems with like money for example

He was always buying her meals and stuff.. and see my friend here questioned wheter she wanted him for his wallet or to love and cherish. Well I knew that she was really into him but it was hard to explain to him to look past her ways.

 

And so.. eventually he wrote her emails asking to break up and she held some of his stuff hostage. and her response to his request was frigging comical she was say no your not breaking up with me.

 

They would be ok for a while and he even learned to accept some of her odd ways like calling him at 4am and waking him up. But she still did alot of other things and it always seemed a but unfair to him.

 

Then one day he told her stop calling him and to leave him alone and I remember him telling me about that day and him saying oh Ill hear from her in a week..

 

And that was it she left.

 

Now where the story of these 2 has ended up is a story for another day.

 

I just wanted you to get an idea from his side. You can pat yourself on the back all you want but, if you really wish to

 

reunite with your ex.. which you secretly do. I am afraid that yopu will have to make some changes and perhaps counselling. And a counsellor could help you better understand why he did things

 

And you could try sending your ex a short email or a call or find where he hangs out and say hi very briefly... actually Id get a bit of counselling first

and then you could send off something simple

 

But I hope my post to your thread sinks in with you.. Im hoping this makes some sense to you and take heed..hes pretty much laid out his reasons for leaving you.. I would say if you were willing to make a few compromises of your own that anything is possible.

 

In any case, ultimately the choice is yours and it all starts with you.

 

ciao

 

I don't agree with this at all. In GC's case, she wasn't doing anything wrong, her exbf is just a controlling jerk.

[ringside]

My strategy, I decided, is that as long as I take a step each day towards moving forward, it's okay for me to cry and try to understand what happened in my relationship and how I could be a better girlfriend in the future. Tomorrow, to counterbalance today, I'm going for a long morning run!

 

That's a very good strategy. I'm happy you've taken this first step towards moving on.

 

I just wonder whether I was too hard on him about communication, or whether it was right of me to begin demanding that he tell me what's up.

 

To me, a relationship without communication is doomed. My ex and I stopped communicating...or rather, I stopped telling him when his actions made me unhappy. You said something about how you had a problem asserting your needs; so did I. For me it was a rather small issue, one that I could've been okay with IF I'd told him what I wanted him to do. But I never did. Communication broke down and on the day we broke up all these unhappiness I contained within myself that I never told him about came rushing out which led me to say, I think we should just break up.

 

Anyway, maybe you did push him too hard; maybe you should've waited for him to take the initiative to deal with the issues when he said 'tomorrow' instead of you taking it up with him again, literally 'tomorrow'. But from the way you describe him, how he's someone who doesn't like to talk about problems, it sounds like there was a severe lack of communication in your relationship. I even think that because of that, the break up was inevitable.

 

No offence to Dr Strangelove but I still think you should not contact him, especially since you're not sure you want to be with him if he doesn't acknowledge his role in what happened. There's no point in contacting him, really. He's made it plenty clear - clearer than clear - that he doesn't want to be in a relationship with you anymore. There wasn't even any room for a vague possibility of you guys getting back together in the future (in his email, I mean). He's out - for good. So in order to be good to yourself, just let things be.

 

As for fault, I think the two of you both played a part in what happened. I'm gad you're trying to figure out how you contributed to the break up; it's important to learn from your mistakes and your past experiences so that future relationships will be more meaningful. Someone once told me that there's no use in throwing yourself into all these relationships with different guys if you don't fix the fundamental problem that's in yourself. As long as that problem exists, all your relationships will fail. I thought it made a lot of sense, so I'm glad you're figuring out your part in the whole situation. But don't push all the blame to yourself, okay? You seem too sensible for that so I'm not too worried about it.

[CaliGuy]

Dr. Strangelove, thanks for your thoughts but I'm not sure I understand; what are you saying and is this story something you experienced? Also, are you recommending I contact my ex? I would love to, and I'd love to have opportunity to tell him that if we got back together I'd change ___ and ___ and that ____ has already changed, but he effectively cut me off from doing that. Also, I'm not sure I'd even want to get back with him if he never acknowledged his role in our problems.

 

Anyway, I'm interested in what you have to say; will you please clarify? Thanks

 

Any changes you make in your life must center around you and not winning your ex back. Because if they aren't, the changes will not last.

 

Never change for someone else. Change for you because that's the person you feel you need to be.

 

Sometimes you don't even need to change at all. You just picked someone who was wrong for you.

[dr strangelove]

Clarify what exactly?

Most of the answers you seek are sitting in your posts on this thread

 

A forum is not really the best place to figure these things out, sorry. If you ever want to chat away from 100 voices let me know.

 

ciao

[bridget_jones]

I think you really need to see a counselor. You didn't do anything wrong. You are thinking that you should have catered more to him in the relationship, and you already did a lot of that anyway.

A good counselor will tell you that he was a jerk and you can do better.

[littlebopeep]

Any changes you make in your life must center around you and not winning your ex back. Because if they aren't, the changes will not last.

 

Never change for someone else. Change for you because that's the person you feel you need to be.

 

Sometimes you don't even need to change at all. You just picked someone who was wrong for you.

 

 

I agree 100%.Fact is,how many of us havent used this line when our relationship has ended but not from our part.I was there 7 months ago begging him to reconsider,saying i would change if thats what it took.i look back now and think oh my god did i really stoop to begging him lol.

 

I now realise if he truly loved me he would be with me now.I have changed.Ive realised that if a man doesnt love me for who i am then i dont need him in my life.Greencove,you will get through this but it will take time.I hope that time comes soon for you.

[AriaIncognito]

Thanks

 

I'm really good at seeing other people's problems for what they are, objectively. What is hard is for me to see my OWN problems objectively and make the correct adjustments. That's why I come here so that you guys can help keep me on an even keel. It's hard to do what your brain says is right when you're heart keeps getting in the way. Just follow the "What's my ex up to?" thread for proof

 

Me too, Caliguy, me too. :-) Easy to give the advice and see the writing on the wall, just hard to accept it.

[Zapbasket]

To me, a relationship without communication is doomed.

 

This is what I wonder: when we say "communication is important" in a relationship, what do we mean? What do YOU mean? I'm musing on this question a lot because one of the dynamics in my relationship, as I have said, is that I kept asking him what he wanted, what he needed, and when he wasn't forthcoming AT ALL eventually I became a nag and probably DID disrespect boundaries I otherwise would honored. And I felt really frustrated with him, and began to yell at him after several years of the behavior, because I felt it was impossible to forge a true PARTNERSHIP if we BOTH didn't outright ASK the other for what we needed, and if the other didn't hear the first time, to ask louder and take responsibility that the other person finally be made to get it.

 

So is that what good communication is? Is it articulating our innermost thoughts and feelings, and needs and desires, in such a way that we keep trying until we deliver it in a way that the other person finally gets it--and also LISTENING and asking questions until we understand what our partner is trying to convey? If so, then this might look or feel like a "dance" in which both parties feel out what kind of communication is most effective with the other person, and what makes the other person comfortable that you, too, can live with. Would you guys agree?

 

If you do agree, then would you say that "communication" defined this way requires discussion, i.e., TALKING? Here's the reason I ask: Clearly, given my partner's e-mail, I overwhelmed him with the amount of discussion I wanted us to have. I am very comfortable with verbal intimacy (with a few exceptions), and so one of the ways I manifested caring in my relationship was to roll up my sleeves and initiate discussion, with the idea from all my years of therapy that anything discussed is better than anything not discussed. I felt irritated at my partner for being unable or unwilling to discuss things. One of the things that hurts the most about how he broke up with me is that from his e-mail and from all your collective reactions to it it's obvious he arrived at a point of absolute clarity regarding this relationship, which means in his silence towards me he was gathering evidence over time and gradually, solitarily, coming to the conclusion that he needed to end our relationship while I stood by clueless, helpless, knowing something was up but not knowing what. I feel really offended that in this behavior he indicated to me that he has no respect for or confidence in my ability to rationally analyze the relationship, and so even while I stood by and BEGGED him to tell me what was going on, he left me out of the process entirely so that I was denied a chance to adjust myself to his needs--something I was asking him for the opportunity to do all along.

 

I do hear you, bridget_jones and others, that I need to stop blaming myself...but like Ringside said, if there's something I need to learn from this that will make me a better person for myself and a better partner either for this person, should we get a second chance, or for someone else, then I really want to learn it and the opinions even of distant outsiders helps me sort out this complicated knot that our relationship became. I feel enormous shame and guilt that I was so insistent on DISCUSSION that ultimately I drove my guy away...my gut tells me it was this and not a lack of love on his part that induced him to end it. Maybe a part of effective communication is knowing when to let issues go? Maybe I became a bit of a "one-trick pony" in coming to DEMAND discussion when it was clear that the pressure to articulate his feelings was frustrating my partner; maybe I should have tried another tactic?

 

It's just...he was so avoidant of ANY discussion of issues--was there anythign I could have done instead to deal with this reality that would have not involved me becoming a total doormat? The self-flagellation I can't let go of is that I was "too demanding"--or was I just asking for something imperative to any relationship? Maybe I should have recognized sooner that he wasn't ready for an intimate relationship to the degree I needed and been the one to end it myself. It's just...there were other things about him...things I haven't really discussed here because I've focused on what was wrong between us...that I loved so much; I really loved this man (and still do) and think he's a terrific, special person; I really wanted to be with him.

 

And as time passes and he gradually slips away, my heart clutches because I feel like I lost this magical person and like it's my fault because I drove him away. I hang my head when I think of him finding a woman who won't require communication and he'll feel much more comfortable and happier...but then I think, No, he's going to have to learn that you can't keep all your feelings to yourself and expect to have an intimate relationship with someone. Or can you--what do you guys think?

 

Someone once told me that there's no use in throwing yourself into all these relationships with different guys if you don't fix the fundamental problem that's in yourself. As long as that problem exists, all your relationships will fail.

 

I so agree with that! That's why I really want to be sure I learn as much as I can, and make the necessary changes in myself, so that no matter what I'm stronger and better able to give more in ALL my relationships.

[Zapbasket]

Never change for someone else. Change for you because that's the person you feel you need to be.

 

Sometimes you don't even need to change at all. You just picked someone who was wrong for you.

 

But don't you think being in a relationship always requires some changes to yourself, accommodations and even total style adjustments? I actually look forward to the opportunity to challenge myself to change in my relationships; I think of it as expanding my repertoire, so to speak. That's why I kept asking my guy to tell me what he wanted, because I really did care about his feelings and wanted the opportunity to adjust myself to better fit his world, since I had picked him in part because FOR MYSELF I wanted to be a part of his world; I admired in many ways his lower-key approach to things and wanted to adopt it as my own approach. He, too, wanted to learn to become more communicative; he told me so and I took the role seriouly (clearly:p )...and what irony! That ended up becoming what he broke up with me over.

 

That's why I'm so confused.

 

Also--and I don't mean this to challenge you; rather, I'm trying to understand your thinking: how do you know that someone is "wrong" for you and not that life and change and the perilousness of communication and inexperience and mutual immaturity didn't gradually erode what had the potential to be an incredible partnership? I always felt--and still do feel, in the agonizing muddle of confusion I'm in--that my guy and I complemented each other beautifully; as one friend said, "Each of you has something that the other needs." That's why this relationship failure hurts so badly because I feel like we missed out on something that could have been amazing. I wish I could have been mature enough, for example, not to require that he be like me in communication style, and not to need so much communication so that he was free to be where he was. I feel like I'll be capable of that increasingly as I go through life. As I said vehemently to him on 12/10, "You make a mistake because I am a grower--I really do seek to learn from my mistakes and make changes." And it's true. *Sigh*

[CaliGuy]

But don't you think being in a relationship always requires some changes to yourself, accommodations and even total style adjustments? I actually look forward to the opportunity to challenge myself to change in my relationships; I think of it as expanding my repertoire, so to speak. That's why I kept asking my guy to tell me what he wanted, because I really did care about his feelings and wanted the opportunity to adjust myself to better fit his world, since I had picked him in part because FOR MYSELF I wanted to be a part of his world; I admired in many ways his lower-key approach to things and wanted to adopt it as my own approach. He, too, wanted to learn to become more communicative; he told me so and I took the role seriouly (clearly:p )...and what irony! That ended up becoming what he broke up with me over.

 

That's why I'm so confused.

 

Also--and I don't mean this to challenge you; rather, I'm trying to understand your thinking: how do you know that someone is "wrong" for you and not that life and change and the perilousness of communication and inexperience and mutual immaturity didn't gradually erode what had the potential to be an incredible partnership? I always felt--and still do feel, in the agonizing muddle of confusion I'm in--that my guy and I complemented each other beautifully; as one friend said, "Each of you has something that the other needs." That's why this relationship failure hurts so badly because I feel like we missed out on something that could have been amazing. I wish I could have been mature enough, for example, not to require that he be like me in communication style, and not to need so much communication so that he was free to be where he was. I feel like I'll be capable of that increasingly as I go through life. As I said vehemently to him on 12/10, "You make a mistake because I am a grower--I really do seek to learn from my mistakes and make changes." And it's true. *Sigh*

 

Sometimes we grow and change on our own and grow apart.

Sometimes we grow and change on our own and grow closer.

 

In his case, he grew apart from you. It doesn't matter if you are willing to change. Ideally, you reach a point where you both grow together and accept each other unconditionally, warts and all. To me, that's true love.

 

With my ex, I accepted her just as she was. She did not accept me for who I was. Our relationship then became unequally yoked, with me giving more and more to make up the gap that she was leaving behind. It became a 100/0 relationship. It sounds like that is what happened to you as well.

 

At some point you have to take a step back and realize that the relationship is unequally yoked and decide if you want to continue it. I think our ex's do that as well when they realize they don't want to be in the relationship anymore. When they are putting in zero %, they've decided their needs aren't being met anymore.

 

Sometimes we just have to accept that the relationship is no longer working, dust ourselves off, rebuild our self-esteem and confidence and move on.

 

It's not a matter of "giving up", it's simply a matter of accepting that this person is not the right one for us as much as we're not the right one for them.

[Johnny B]

CG -

 

When you talk of change you say that you shouldn't change for anyone. That assumes the person who was dumped was a good person and was committed to making the relationship work.

I agree with that.. don't miss/pine/desire someone who doesn't want you... I however am the guy that is on the flipside.... I'm the guy who left who WANTS to come back.. who wants the second chance and will never get it.

 

What about in my case where I feel like I didn't give my all and that I should have made an effort and that I didn't appreciate what I had until she was gone?

 

I feel that it was me that was the 100% cause of the problems or was all that just a manifestation of the fact that we were just not right for each other? Was I not good to her because something withing me said this doesn't work and to break it off... or do I just not know what a good thing is when I see it? If it's the latter than I really fear for my future

 

I say that I've made numerous changes to myself to be a better person to EVERYONE, and I have done that. But what about the way I was with her? Was she brought into my life to change me for the better? Why did it have to happen that way. When I look back, all I see is someone who was amazing and so special and my immature and stupid ways thought that it would be better to move on to other things, thinking the grass is greener somewhere else.

 

Everyone says to go out and find someone who appreciates you, well I'm the guy who had that and is super, super, super upset, scared, nervous that she was the ONE that was all of those things that someone looks for in life, the total package.

 

Why is this so hard and confusing for me... Aren't you supposed to know when you find someone who makes your world stop.. the one that is everything you wanted? Why do I feel like this only now when she is truely gone and after I had so many chances to get her back? So what only now I have these thoughts when she found someone else??????? I've never looked back on anyone I've dumped and regretted it. Why now, why her... was she the ONE and I didn't know. IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE IT, AND NOT KNOW???

I'm beginning to feel like I'm the person that has no clue what a relationship is about, until now... I can't stand it.

 

In fact she was the one who needed to find someone who appreciated her, and maybe she has... and I'm left sulking in and endless cycle of what I did wrong, what I should have done, could have done. I cannot get rid of this self loathing right now. It's been 4 months since she's with the new guy (and now the beginning of 6 where he will be out of the country)... and 2 solid months of me hating myself for the person I was.

 

Where do I go from here?

J

[CaliGuy]

CG -

 

When you talk of change you say that you shouldn't change for anyone. That assumes the person who was dumped was a good person and was committed to making the relationship work.

I agree with that.. don't miss/pine/desire someone who doesn't want you... I however am the guy that is on the flipside.... I'm the guy who left who WANTS to come back.. who wants the second chance and will never get it.

 

What about in my case where I feel like I didn't give my all and that I should have made an effort and that I didn't appreciate what I had until she was gone?

 

I feel that it was me that was the 100% cause of the problems or was all that just a manifestation of the fact that we were just not right for each other? Was I not good to her because something withing me said this doesn't work and to break it off... or do I just not know what a good thing is when I see it? If it's the latter than I really fear for my future

 

No failed relationship is 100% anyone's fault. It takes two to make a relationship work and two to make it fail. Most of the time, it's just a flat out failure to communicate or listen.

 

I say that I've made numerous changes to myself to be a better person to EVERYONE, and I have done that. But what about the way I was with her? Was she brought into my life to change me for the better? Why did it have to happen that way. When I look back, all I see is someone who was amazing and so special and my immature and stupid ways thought that it would be better to move on to other things, thinking the grass is greener somewhere else.

 

Everyone says to go out and find someone who appreciates you, well I'm the guy who had that and is super, super, super upset, scared, nervous that she was the ONE that was all of those things that someone looks for in life, the total package.

 

Why is this so hard and confusing for me... Aren't you supposed to know when you find someone who makes your world stop.. the one that is everything you wanted? Why do I feel like this only now when she is truely gone and after I had so many chances to get her back? So what only now I have these thoughts when she found someone else??????? I've never looked back on anyone I've dumped and regretted it. Why now, why her... was she the ONE and I didn't know. IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE IT, AND NOT KNOW???

I'm beginning to feel like I'm the person that has no clue what a relationship is about, until now... I can't stand it.

 

In fact she was the one who needed to find someone who appreciated her, and maybe she has... and I'm left sulking in and endless cycle of what I did wrong, what I should have done, could have done. I cannot get rid of this self loathing right now. It's been 4 months since she's with the new guy (and now the beginning of 6 where he will be out of the country)... and 2 solid months of me hating myself for the person I was.

 

Where do I go from here?

J

 

 

If you have learned something from your past failed relationships and have used that information to make you a better person then it's my theory that these relationships were meant to happen and fail so that you could grow in the right direction.

 

Don't hate yourself for the past. Don't wallow in it either. Use it as a learning experience that will teach you a valuable lesson for the next one who comes along.

[ringside]

when we say "communication is important" in a relationship, what do we mean? What do YOU mean?

 

I mean: Two people need to be able to openly discuss their needs and desires and issues and problems. It needs to be a two-way thing. When one party is upset with the other over something he’s failed to do (just for instance), the aggrieved party needs to be feel comfortable enough with her partner to bring it up with him. In turn, her partner needs to be receptive to her problem, enough to listen and not get unduly upset and then try to work out a solution with her. He cannot just close the door on her, or refuse to talk about it and go on as if nothing is wrong. If he chooses to refuse to talk about it and just go on as if nothing is wrong, I find it difficult to see how the couple could be happy together because the person who brought up the problem is left without an answer or a solution. As long as the problem still exists, it’s close to impossible for the couple to go on like nothing is wrong, because something IS wrong for the aggrieved party. Even if she doesn’t bring it up with him again and waits for him to address it, the problem will fester within her, growing bigger and bigger because there is no solution.

 

I hope this makes sense because I’m also trying to articulate what it is I mean. I think, essentially, I mean that two people have to want to talk out a problem. You can’t be the one doing the job all the time. Like you said, you kept pushing him to discuss things with you but he didn’t want to. Even if you HAD given him space and didn’t pursue it with him and instead left it to him to bring it up again, do you think it would have made that much of a difference? I ask this because when I put myself in your situation, I find that whatever problem it is I’m having with the relationship will only continue to weigh down on me for as long as it goes by unaddressed. And if I’m unhappy about something in a relationship and the guy doesn’t want to solve it with me, I can’t go on smiling every day as if everything is fine. Either way – whether I give him space or not – I would be unhappy, and it’d only be a matter of time before the relationship ends if this pattern keeps repeating itself.

 

Maybe you should’ve given him more time than you did to bring up the issues; but the question is, how much time? What if the time you needed and the time he needed were too disproportionate? Also, another question is, what if he never brought up the issue again, which I recall was the case for you on a few occasions? Is it healthy for a relationship to let problems that are obviously important to one party fester like that?

 

For this, I don’t think you wanted too much communication; it only seemed like it was too much because he didn’t want any at all. How do you be with a guy that doesn’t want to talk about things? Personally, I wouldn’t be able to stand it. Like, every single time I feel unhappy about something and I try to talk about it with him and the only response I get is, “I don’t want to talk about it”? I can’t envision myself going on in a relationship like that.

 

Even worse, this:

while I stood by and BEGGED him to tell me what was going on, he left me out of the process entirely so that I was denied a chance to adjust myself to his needs--something I was asking him for the opportunity to do all along.

 

Seriously. He wouldn’t even tell you what was wrong. Was it generally like that throughout the entire relationship or was he only THIS shut off to you towards the end? Because to me, I can’t fathom what more you possibly could’ve done, or what you could’ve done better, if he didn’t even take the first step of telling you what was wrong. How can the two of you solve anything or reach some kind of compromise or whatever if the person with the issue doesn’t even address it?

 

The self-flagellation I can't let go of is that I was "too demanding"--or was I just asking for something imperative to any relationship?

 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is the general impression I’m getting: You wanted to talk about things. He didn’t. Whenever you tried to talk he’d freeze and stonewall you, and I infer from this that nothing is addressed, nothing is resolved. This is where I think communication is imperative: If the parties don’t communicate – don’t talk about what is wrong, don’t discuss what can be done, don’t address each other’s feelings and concerns – the problems the couple is having will only continue to build up, some of which can even be solved, IF ONLY he’d talk about it or bring it up, etc. This is what I meant in my previous post about the severe lack of communication: You were the only one that wanted to communicate. It’s impossible trying to get anything across to someone who doesn’t want to communicate.

 

Is it articulating our innermost thoughts and feelings, and needs and desires, in such a way that we keep trying until we deliver it in a way that the other person finally gets it--and also LISTENING and asking questions until we understand what our partner is trying to convey? If so, then this might look or feel like a "dance" in which both parties feel out what kind of communication is most effective with the other person, and what makes the other person comfortable that you, too, can live with. Would you guys agree?

 

 

I agree. I think it’s about getting a grasp on what the other person wants, what his needs are, and letting him know what you want and what your needs are, then working something out together that’d placate the two of you. In order for this to work both parties need to be in it together; for your case, I get the sense, once again, that you were flying solo.

 

I don’t know if you pushed him too hard. Maybe you did; maybe you should have given him more room, I don’t know. What I’m leaning towards is that you and him had different ways of dealing with things. He seems very avoidance-y and non-confrontational, while you wanted to discuss and talk about things. That seems a tad contradictory to me. A question though: Assuming you should have given him more space, do you know how much space that would have entailed? Did he tell you, at any point, what was comfortable for him? If he did and you acquiesced then yes, you overstepped his boundaries.

 

I’m also thinking though: The difficulty in this situation is really coming to a compromise between the two different styles of dealing with problems. Wanting to talk at length vs. not wanting to talk at all seems a bit hard to reconcile. I honestly don’t know how to straddle a middle ground here.

 

I hang my head when I think of him finding a woman who won't require communication and he'll feel much more comfortable and happier...but then I think, No, he's going to have to learn that you can't keep all your feelings to yourself and expect to have an intimate relationship with someone. Or can you--what do you guys think?

 

For the love of all things wonderful, I can’t see how a person can be in a lasting relationship and keep all his feelings to himself. Maybe I haven’t experienced enough to see how this is possible but it’s just inconceivable and absurd to me. One of the main reasons my ex and I didn’t work out a second time was because I kept all my feelings to myself (had my reasons; too complicated and lengthy to go into, and not relevant for the present discussion) and failed to tell him what I wanted. I didn’t even give him a chance to decide whether or not he wanted to placate me, just like how your partner didn’t tell you what was wrong and simply broke off the relationship. Even if he’s comfortable keeping everything to himself, it’d probably drive the other party mad, especially if she’s interested in a meaningful relationship. Correct me if I’m wrong, anyone, but I don’t know, to me it seems like the only time a woman wouldn’t want communication is when she doesn’t care about the relationship. I personally find it difficult to see how a couple can last if they don’t address their problems, or if one person does all the addressing and the other simply shuts off.