herenow Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I was talking about my feelings of overwhelming guilt...he has never said he felt guilty. No I would never encourage my daughter to persue a relationship like this but I would also hope I would raise her to be in a loving commited relationship where she was completely fulfilled in all ways, not just with an almost unlimited supply of money, and material possesions to replace actual feelings. This is you putting your own feelings onto his wife. You don't know her and you can't say how she feels about money and material possesions. It's clear that the MM puts a lot of importance on these things since that where you are getting your info. This sounds like you are making assumptions about someone you don't know and its you that feels those things are important. He may be just showering her with stuff to keep her around. If she only knew the truth. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 The thing is, you really don't know what goes on behind closed doors, you're only hearing his side of things. I'm sure there are tons of things he hasn't shared with you, but given you 'just enough' info so you 'feel' bad for him as he's making it seem he's getting the short end of the stick at home. He's selfish, and getting all his needs met between you and his wife. Why on earth would he want to change things or give up one woman, when he can have it all? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 Actually, this man is a master manipulator. The blame is being place on his wife's abuser. Aww, how sad, how unfortunate. I understand and will support her like a promised but I need YOUR love, and sex and support. Kenzo, he has instilled in you sympathy for her. That keeps you around as OW understanding what a terrible situation this noble man has found himself in and you as his only saviour. The blame is on some nameless abuser and he is noble enough to screw around on her while staying for his kids. Gag me with a spoon! Is SHE using him???? The abuser was a family member, and he went to jail for it. Not nameless, actually documented. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Whom ever, point being the person isn't there to be blamed. That instills sympathy for her situation. That is manipulative. Whether anyone thinks that she is just staying in the marriage to be finacially supported when he obviously wants to stay married only to finacially support her is moot. I think the question is, why are you questioning it?? It's what you signed up for. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 The abuser was a family member, and he went to jail for it. Not nameless, actually documented. This is not a good man. His wife has a serious problem to deal with and instead of helping her through a hard time, he is having sex with you. That is cruel and abusive in itself and his wife does not deserve to be put through such an ordeal. If either of you were good people you would see that she needs help and both of you are adding to her misery. Shame on you both! Link to post Share on other sites
outofdarkness Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I know he takes Allegra... OOD- I'm not painting her as a witch, and neither is he. I adore all of your advice, and truly I am not trying to upset the wives here, who shed such a welcome and unbiased perspective. he could take more then what you mentioned. my h did and still does but his ow's didn't know...just pointing out there is prob. alot you don't know about him...he only tells u what HE wants u to hear! sorry bout the harsh post earlier. my finger hurts...prob. shouldn't be posting at all..but i can't stay away from LS!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 You are assuming she has no feelings for her husband? Why would you assume that? Is it becaue they don't have sex? You already stated she has sexual hang ups because of childhood abuse. How do you know she is not happy? Would she not turn a blind eye to this affair if she was using him instead of accusing him twice of having an affair. Did she begin her marriage with this lifestyle? He was out sick one day from work and from bed sent me a text, she walked by and said "oh, tell your GF I said hello". Before that when we first started hanging out, it was a Saturday after a Friday night we went to a sporting event, and we had an amazing time (we like rival teams), he was in a great mood that next day, and she said something to the effect of tell the girl who's making you like this to keep it up... Not exactly accusing as it was more of passing sarcasm. I have asked him if he thought she would leave if she found out he was having an A, and he said "honestly, I doubt it". Look guys, I am not expecting her to leave him, or vice versa and he and I will live happily ever after. I am not going to call her, tell her, "rat" him out, whatever...If she found out it would be due to his carelessness, or indiscretion, and even if she did I do not have a fairy tale complex about this relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Not exactly accusing as it was more of passing sarcasm. Let me translate this into BS language. This means... I sincerely hope that you do not believe that I am as stupid as you would like for me to pretend that I am. I know what you are doing, and I want you to know that I know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 This is not a good man. His wife has a serious problem to deal with and instead of helping her through a hard time, he is having sex with you. That is cruel and abusive in itself and his wife does not deserve to be put through such an ordeal. If either of you were good people you would see that she needs help and both of you are adding to her misery. Shame on you both! Quite the contrary...He is a good man and he did have a fairy tale complex about them when they got married, they went to therapy, and when she gave up, he continued for years, HE wanted a happily ever after, he wanted the perfect marriage, and even if she denied the help he tried to adjust to her... Yes shame on me! I don't want to be in this and I know I have to get out. Herenow believe when I say I wrestle with this day in and day out. You are harsh, but I appreciate every word! OOD-- Please stay, and don't say you don't belong here... Both of your kicks have my mind reeling!! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Quite the contrary...He is a good man and he did have a fairy tale complex about them when they got married, they went to therapy, and when she gave up, he continued for years, HE wanted a happily ever after, he wanted the perfect marriage, and even if she denied the help he tried to adjust to her... Yes shame on me! I don't want to be in this and I know I have to get out. Herenow believe when I say I wrestle with this day in and day out. You are harsh, but I appreciate every word! OOD-- Please stay, and don't say you don't belong here... Both of your kicks have my mind reeling!! Sorry Kenzo, you can't have it both ways. He is not a good man. Don't think for one second that he is as perfect as he tells you he is. "He tried to adjust to her" WTF? He is feeding you a bunch of bull and you're buying it. You came here to get some opinions and from what I see, everyone sees him for what he is except you. Open your eyes Kenzo, you are getting one side of a very unbelievable story. If you want to believe the truth you will see that he is using both his wife and you. The only problem is, his wife is out of the loop on the truth about the two of you. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Hey Kenzo. I agree with those who have said you're only getting one side of the story. Just from reading how you write about what he has said, it also seems that, despite what you've said about it not painting him like a saint, his words do seem to make him smell like roses, and it's highly unrealistic. The thing is, neither you, nor I, nor anyone who isn't in that relationship can say whether she really loves him or not. So, instead of rehashing everyone else's opinion, I guess I want to ask you this: If you believed that she does love him and that she is not at all "using him" for status or money or anything else - would that change anything for you? In other words, what difference does it make? Are you trying to determine whether to believe him? Because it sounds like you already pretty much do (although I agree, you should be eating huge lumps of salt when you hear his side of the story). But the point is, what purpose would believing her to be using him serve for you? Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Quite the contrary...He is a good man... Yes shame on me! I don't want to be in this and I know I have to get out. Herenow believe when I say I wrestle with this day in and day out. I believe that most of the men who find themselves in A's ARE good men...they have just made poor choices that end up hurting people they love... Kenzo, only you know what is right for you...and you will know when is the right time for it...things are not as black and white as they seem... While you appreciate the harshness of some of the previous posts, I want to tell you that I know how you feel...but instead of giving you judgment, I give you my understanding...because I have walked in shoes similar to you... Sometimes we find ourselves in a situation that we never thought we'd be in...and sometimes that is positive, sometimes negative...I can't say that my R with him was negative, because it was not...but I am sorry for the circumstances... But take care of yourself above all...and guard your heart...sometimes the harsh posts can take a toll on your self-esteem...and enable your PM's when you're able (100 posts)...GEL Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Quite the contrary...He is a good man and he did have a fairy tale complex about them when they got married, they went to therapy, and when she gave up, he continued for years, HE wanted a happily ever after, he wanted the perfect marriage, and even if she denied the help he tried to adjust to her... He is not a good man. She obviously suspects that he is having an affair and he is choosing to let her think that she is crazy. That is not a good man, any way you slice it. Yes shame on me! I don't want to be in this and I know I have to get out. Herenow believe when I say I wrestle with this day in and day out. You are harsh, but I appreciate every word! Get over yourself already. HE is doing this to her. You want to feel ashamed then feel ashamed allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. You deserve better and for some reason your keeping yourself in a situation that is hurtful to you. What you're doing to yourself is as unproductive and cruel as what he is doing to her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 I guess I want to ask you this: If you believed that she does love him and that she is not at all "using him" for status or money or anything else - would that change anything for you? ... But the point is, what purpose would believing her to be using him serve for you? To be honest I am not sure what effect it would have, I mean if she loves him and he, her, and they are happy, and I am just a slight distraction in his life which is otherwise perfect existence, why does he make me such a priority? He loves her, but from his words, it's a familiar love, she's the mother of his children, not in love with her...please try not to comment on that as we have all read/heard that one a million times...I know! It's not that I take every word he says as gospel, but it is balanced as far as his and her mistakes in their marriage. He never lays the blame completely on her, and while her situation does bother him, he is protective of her in that right, and he speaks cautiously about it. So to answer your question, maybe it would justify our relationship, in some sick and twisted way, you know, if she had her reasons just as he has his for staying...and neither one of them being in love, then I am not taking... I know all this sounds like sh*t, I can't get my words out the way I want. As far getting over myself, I am way over myself, I'm no angel I don't need to be told that, but all in all I'd like to think I am a pretty good person, and like I've said I'm very torn over my feelings for him. This situation is not black and white, thank you GEL, it is every shade of gray you can imagine. Thank you for understanding and most importantly having been through this and being kind enough to aloow me to "learn" from your mistakes. I know the kind of man he is it is hard for me to see him as the lying manipulator that some have said he is. He is very boyish in a lot of ways and a hard worker and a good provider. and on a side note...herenow, what is so unbelievable about any of this? When I think about mine and my family's history I think you can't make this stuff up, and when I hear other people's stories...well listen this country is built on dysfunction...Happy oblivious dysfunction! Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 and I am just a slight distraction in his life which is otherwise perfect existence, why does he make me such a priority? Ego feed. I know the kind of man he is it is hard for me to see him as the lying manipulator that some have said he is. He is very boyish in a lot of ways and a hard worker and a good provider. He may not be doing this in a malcious or cruel intentional way, but it is self serving himself and very selfish. I hope that makes sense to you. He is putting his needs first, before yours and his wife's. That is for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
outofdarkness Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Quite the contrary...He is a good man and he did have a fairy tale complex about them when they got married, they went to therapy, and when she gave up, he continued for years, HE wanted a happily ever after, he wanted the perfect marriage, and even if she denied the help he tried to adjust to her... Yes shame on me! I don't want to be in this and I know I have to get out. Herenow believe when I say I wrestle with this day in and day out. You are harsh, but I appreciate every word! OOD-- Please stay, and don't say you don't belong here... Both of your kicks have my mind reeling!! ood here, yeah i hang around diff forums. too many posters i care about on this one..i'm not going anywhere... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 and on a side note...herenow, what is so unbelievable about any of this? When I think about mine and my family's history I think you can't make this stuff up, and when I hear other people's stories...well listen this country is built on dysfunction...Happy oblivious dysfunction! There is no doubt in my mind that what you are saying is happening to you. It's a very familiar story and one that I have read on this forum many many times. You can choose to be oblivious if you want to, but you are most likely no different than any of the other OW that come here and ask "why?" when they realize what the MM is really about. After they see how fast they run back to their wives, for what ever reason the MM chooses to use, does the OW realize that it's always about the MM and he will always do what is best for him. More often than not, that means the OW gets left out in the cold asking questions that have already been answered numerous times. And the family is left devastated. So, when the MM says it's for the kids, he's full of it. Affairs hurt everyone including the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
puddleofmud Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I feel that you are doing a great job of seeking to understand your situation and having read the entire thread I feel the following (below) is most worrisome: it would seem that he does have the means to leave the marriage--however, WHY would he wait for HER to "do it" or seemingly require HER to do it if he has already the "ammo" to leave--yet threaten her so severely should she take any action? Frankly, in my eyes this logic falls apart at the seams. Why so weak that he only threatens about HER leaving when SHE asks about an affair? It would seem more that he is threatening her NOT to leave and that he is asserting his control over her via her "condition" and her lack of ability to support herself so she will not leave! And I find it quite cruel that he would threaten in such a manner about her said "condition" or inablilty to support herself--which has been an continued aspect of the marriage? His argument seems to be telling her that she has no control over herself which could possibly help one understand her means of sarcasm as to her statements about his affair--she may be trained to feel that she has no means to deal w/ this other than by being passive/ agressive as he has basically let her know that should SHE take action the consequence would be loosing her children. If she were a good Mother, as he has stated then why would he threaten her this way? The argument/ statement about his wife seem incongruous. That is not what a "nice guy does"! That's what a control freak does! He is keeping her on emotional ice as well as you. Many so called publically charming, popular individuals are not what they seem on the surface. They seek to be popular and to be loved in order to feed their egos but are literally monsters in disguise. It could be factual that he has no real need to leave other than to blame HER for the shortfall in the marriage and use another to base his ego driven "affairs". It could be that since he is so ready to manipulate and control his wife he would also seek to control you by whatever means he needs. In my opinion this reveals his true nature: "What I am refering to as far as her using him is that it's not as if divorce has not been a conversation before. When she first suspected an affair she said she would leave him, she knows how much those kids mean to him, he told her that if that's the way she feels then she should do it and in light of her "condition", and lack of ability to take care of herself, he would get he kids, and leave her in the same way he found her, so she could start over, from scratch. They are not in love...he has said many times that he likes her mostly, she is a good mother, and not a bad person to be around. He does not talk badly of her, except for her inability to be intimate, but without him she has no means of supporting herself." Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Great post POM, Kenzo, The deal is that he creates who he wants the world to believe he is in you or what he needs to believe himself. He looks at his wife and the reflection he sees of himself doesn't make him happy. With you, however, he builds his reflection as he needs for you return to him. You are the Magic Mirror of his own design. I guarantee, that if you ever hold him accountable for ALL of his actions or reflect to him who he really is that he will be gone in a heart beat. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 That is not what a "nice guy does"! That's what a control freak does! He is keeping her on emotional ice as well as you. He absolutely hates being called a control freak!!! It's his biggest pet peeve! I think they have both been on emtional ice for a long time, long before me. She has her needs fulfilled (I think) and he gets to see his kids daily...they are locked in a stalemate, not an ideal marriage, but they go through the motions as they see fit. I never comment, or give advice, I listen and nod. As far as his "threats" are concerned there is not a judge in this country would deny a good mother the right to her children, and I'm sure IF the time ever came she would be well taken care of. POM- I know what your saying is true, I'm not sure it's true of this MM in particular, we'll have to wait and see. I know him to be a kind man, it can't all be an illusion. Wishes- I love the analogy, and yes maybe he does try to project the person he wants to be with me, it's fresh and somewhat new. Gone, I don't think so, I actually wish he would pull the trigger for me so I do have to (in case you haven't noticed...I'm a coward) This whole thing got so off track... it became about him using me, him using her, me being an oblivious jerk trying to steal this sick women's husband... I've never fully told my side of the story as this is more of their story, I just sort of got swept away in him, days became weeks, became months, and here I am with mostly the same story as the OW here. The bottom line is I will be spending Easter with my niece and nephew, watching my sister's dysfunctional marriage function and he will be with his wife and kids...A very potent reason why I am NOT married! Link to post Share on other sites
Impudent Oyster Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 My question is this...Could it be that she is just using him for the lifestyle, money, white picket fence illusion? And if so, why? Maybe she loves him. She's not the one having the affair. On the other hand, since he's in love with you, what is HE using HER for? Have you asked him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 5, 2007 Author Share Posted April 5, 2007 Maybe she does love him, who knows it could be, I don't think that under the circumstances that she would emotionally be able to have an affair. I have not asked him what he's "using" her for in so many words, he has said that the most important thing is the kids and so I think if he is using her it is to keep the kids in the dark (or so they think) about the problems in the marriage, one big happy family. He seems to think that the kids will wind up all screwed up if they were to divorce. Like I said before I don't give my opinion on to him on this because I don't want what I say to be misinterpreted, I want to tell him that it can happen no matter what. But ultimately these kids know that there is something wrong and it will affect them either way. My parents divorced when I was 20, my youngest sister was 10. I think she faired way better than I did. They were happier, she didnt have to live with that cloud over the house everyday in her childhood and we are left with the guilt that they stayed together b/c they thought it would be better for us, disregarding their own happiness. To my knowledge neither of them had affairs... Link to post Share on other sites
vanilla chai Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I think he is using his wife as an excuse to not get a divorce. How can she be using him if she doesn't even know what he is doing? Who knows, maybe if he told her the truth, she would show him the door and kick his a$$ out. Maybe that is why he isn't honest with her because he knows that she won't stand for his philandering ways. Who's using who? Oh and let's not forget that he is using you as well, but it sounds like you're OK with that. Ita!!! I believe that the wife loves her hubby,even though she doesn't know he's a lying sack of crap. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kenzo Posted April 6, 2007 Author Share Posted April 6, 2007 What does Ita mean? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Why are you at all concerned about her medications, her shopping trips, or her at all? What she does isn't any of your concern. He is being hugely disrespectful of her privacy in discussing her personal business with you, and you are too in discussing it here with us. Link to post Share on other sites
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