Undateable and tired of it.

[deaconblues]

I may have posted this in the wrong forum. I really need some help/advice...

 

 

I am a 27 year old man, never had a girlfriend in my life, and have never had an intimate encounter of anykind. I just don't know how to do this...

 

I am afraid that I am in the percentage of people who will never, ever be able to find love because of physical flaws that I may or may not have. First of all, I am short. I have been told many times that women don't like short men. I don't know if it's true, but I am beginning to believe it more and more...

 

I try to keep myself in shape...a lot of the times I forget to eat and may be too thin (I realized this a year ago when I tried to buy pants and they weren't selling 28 waists anymore...I have been battling eating disorder on and off for at least 10 years now). I have been in CBT for a while, but I don't know if it is going to take.

 

Looking at the prospect of a lifetime alone is awfully hard for me, but so is going out and meeting people. I just believe that I am so physically flawed that people will dismiss me, and I honestly believe that I am just not good enough as a person to meet the standard of relationship material.

 

I am reaching the end of my rope. One time a friend told me "you can always just pay for sex", but I don't want to do that. It isn't even about sex. It's about living this same life every day until my dying days...sitting in my apartment alone and working or playing the piano long hours to distract myself from feelings of worthlessness. I am just so exhausted from depression, and just so, so sad...

[Road Rage]

One thing that will keep you right where you are is sitting in your apartment alone seeking to distract yourself from feelings of worthlessness.

 

Get out and enjoy the thrill of the chase. it is not about getting a woman. It is living in the hope that you will. So go out and hope. It may happen. But if it doesn`t, given time, you will have some good stories. Women generally are totally full of b*ll sh*t. Get used to the humor in it.

 

Go out and put women on the spot, back them in corners and give them something to talk about. So they can retreat to the restroom and say OMG! Did you see that creep! He actually asked me for my number.

 

It never really occured to them that you are a human being. So why should you be pinning over such a creature? give them HELL.

 

In short, make it fun for yourself if they don`t give a damn about you. You are the MAN. Walk through the door deciding that you are going to have a good time. rejection is the process. A man learns to operate in a world where rejection is constant and unrelenting.

 

But, you can have alot of fun with it. Just be DETACHED. At the end of the night go home and say..... Every day I learn something new about women, and most days I`m shocked.

[Lights]

In short, make it fun for yourself if they don`t give a damn about you. You are the MAN. Walk through the door deciding that you are going to have a good time. rejection is the process. A man learns to operate in a world where rejection is constant and unrelenting.

 

But, you can have alot of fun with it. Just be DETACHED. At the end of the night go home and say..... Every day I learn something new about women, and most days I`m shocked.

 

I've read posts and advice like this on this topic (for that matter, I've asked for some on some threads of my own). I'm forced to wonder what makes being rejected a fun process and a good time, why someone who is detached would go out of his way and expend effort at all to meet anyone, and how each rejection actually teaches anyone anything new about women.

 

Maybe I'm insufficiently masochistic and lack some transcendent power of insight.

[deaconblues]

I have asked out 9 women in my life. rejected each time. I don't like my 100% failure record, and it generally takes me about a good year to wrap my head around the damaging effects it has on my esteem and self image.

 

I kinda walk in the shadows...I think my parents gave up on me long ago when I left for college, and I just have been living my life alone ever since. I live 1000 miles away from the nearest family member, and I talk to my folks maybe twice a month...I move to new cities/new jobs with ease because I am always alone and don't have any friends to leave, but I don't really like that...

[Road Rage]

Lights

To answer your question, one guy I know who was quite a stud made a comment one time that 80 percent of the time he gets rejected. And this is a guy women consider very atrractive (tall, dark, athletic), witty and got things going for himself. Consider what an average guy has to endure. If he ever loses his sense of humor, he will quickly become bitter and angry at a process that is inevitable.

 

A guy has got to get comfortable with a world where maybe less than 5 percent of women really give a flip about him. It is his job to figure out who that 5 percent is because women will not let him know.

[Lights]

Lights

To answer your question, one guy I know who was quite a stud made a comment one time that 80 percent of the time he gets rejected. And this is a guy women consider very atrractive (tall, dark, athletic), witty and got things going for himself. Consider what an average guy has to endure. If he ever loses his sense of humor, he will quickly become bitter and angry at a process that is inevitable.

 

A guy has got to get comfortable with a world where maybe less than 5 percent of women really give a flip about him. It is his job to figure out who that 5 percent is because women will not let him know.

 

None of that answers my questions.

It does not answer what makes the rejections fun.

It does not answer why a detached person would bother to expend any effort at all to meet anyone.

It does not answer what about the rejections makes one learn new things about women.

[LN99]

How short are we talking here?

 

Anyways, I know plenty of short guys who date! Short and thin men. Men with hardly any muscle... I HAVE dated guys who were short (and yes shorter then me.) I have also been attracted to men who were shorter and super skinny. I know other girls who have as well. So guess what? Theres hope.

 

Have you ever asked yourself what kinds of women your going after? Are you going after the supermodel looking girls? Have you overlooked average girls? Girls that maybe are friend material? Because those are the girls you should be looking for. Obviously you know that attraction is not only sexual, but emotional as well. So, friendship does play a key. If you can find a girl who is like the average girl next door....why not give it a shot? I mean maybe you might not be attracted at first, but feelings can grow. I think once you are comfortable around a woman, things can happen....

 

And yes, the others were right, sitting home feeling sorry for yourself does not help at all! Get out there. Let the real you be known! Trust me, I have found myself attracted to guys who were far from the ideal "hot" guy, but you know what? It was their personality that got me hooked. So get out there and quit yer bitchin! (Sorry just kidding but you get my point right?)

 

Good Luck!

[irish99]

I agree, if you are going to sit around feeling sorry for yourself then you will be lonely the rest of your life. If you are convinced you are no good, then everyone around you will see that and be of the same opinion. short guys, tall guys, who cares, that is not what matters, and if a woman cannot see you for who you are inside and not what you look like on the outside then you don't want them! remember, we are all the same height sitting down! You gotta love yourself baby before anyone is going to love you! if you play the piano, go to some bar that has one, sit down and start playing, you know how many women would love that.

[deaconblues]

I am 5'7"

 

Here is the only picture I own of myself (I have a problem with mirrors and photographs).

 

http://chordchanges.googlepages.com/img1.png

 

Please be kind about my freakish head. I have problems with it. I have compulsions to measure and other problems...

 

I also look way too young, which I was told was a major barrier to entry. I just NEED to know that after therapy I won't be frozen out of the market.

[Road Rage]

lights

Sorry I cant cut and paste your post:

 

Rejection is not fun but it is inevitable. It must not affect the way you percieve yourself however. You have to be able to laugh at life when it doesn`t hand you what you want.

 

A person is not detached from meeting someone, he is detached from efforts that don`t yield the desired result. He doesn`t take it personal.

 

Rejections mean you are trying. You learn by experiencing. If you don`t get out there and experience, you don`t learn anything much. Experiences, both positive and negative, teach us about life. Like touching a hot stove, you sure learn not to do that again.

[Lights]

Rejections mean you are trying. You learn by experiencing. If you don`t get out there and experience, you don`t learn anything much. Experiences, both positive and negative, teach us about life. Like touching a hot stove, you sure learn not to do that again.

 

This "answer" you have posted is an evasion. My question did not dispute that not getting rejected may lead to not learning a specific new thing about women.

 

My question was HOW does getting rejected necessarily teach you something new about women? Especially when one is not informed about what specific action was what rendered the final experience tantamount to touching the hot stove?

[LN99]

I am 5'7"

 

Here is the only picture I own of myself (I have a problem with mirrors and photographs).

 

http://chordchanges.googlepages.com/img1.png

 

Please be kind about my freakish head. I have problems with it. I have compulsions to measure and other problems...

 

I also look way too young, which I was told was a major barrier to entry. I just NEED to know that after therapy I won't be frozen out of the market.

 

 

First off I dated a few guys who were 5'7". Im nearly 5'9". Did it bother them? NO. Did it bother me? NO! Because I was attracted to them and their personality. I found things about their personality and it suddenly made me look at them in a different way. Oh yeah and most of those guys...looked younger.

You look good for 27!

 

I know a guy in his early 30s who looks like he's in his early 20s. He is skinny, shorter(your height) but I must say I find him VERY attractive! If it weren't for the fact that hes "unavailable at the moment" for me, I would totally go for him. And the funny thing is that when I first met him, I thought he was kinda dorky looking. Then as time went on and I got to know him, it just hit me and IM like "wow, I really LIKE this guy!" I'm 25 and before never ever thought of even dating anyone over 30. But for this guy I would make an exception. I mean, thats another thing about looking younger, it will pay off big time later on in life. Plus Im sure there is some short girl out there that would consider you tall and would LOVE to be with a guy like you!

 

OH yeah, btw, about your pic. I think you look good! You make it sound like your butt ugly!

 

Silly guy... Its totally your attitude. If you have that attitude that your no good etc, then people will think that also. Or they will avoid you! So, stop feeling sorry for yourself and just accept that your short, look young, and use it to your advantage.

 

And about rejection, everyone gets rejected. Even tall good looking guys. Pretty girls get rejected. Yes, they do. I have gotten rejected also(even though Im far from a supermodel.) Do I let it get me down? No! Mainly because I figure that if someone doesn't like me for me then screw em! At least I tried! Better then wondering "what if?" I may be bigger and taller then a lot of women out there, but I'm me. I accept that. When I find someone else who does and my feelings are mutual, Im totally game for a relationship. I have found that more often then not, guys are. The shallow ones are the ones I avoid. And if people can't see me for who I am inside, then it really was no loss at all being rejected by them.

[Road Rage]

lights

 

Rejection is teaching a man what works for him. If at first you don`t succeed, try, try again. It is just like anything, bowling, golf, whatever.

 

I see your point because it is hard to explain it. But, I think back 20 years ago and where I was at. What I knew about women. And I was very naive. Being around women, and many negative experiences along the way, has perhaps taught me more precisely about human nature rather than women in particular.

 

Men and women have traits more common to the gender. There is a lot to learn. When you have got a late start in life, you really know it. When I say something new, I don`t mean something that has just evolved with women, I mean something I was ingnorant of and have discovered the reality that has existed.

[Lights]

lights

 

Rejection is teaching a man what works for him. If at first you don`t succeed, try, try again. It is just like anything, bowling, golf, whatever.

 

I see your point because it is hard to explain it. But, I think back 20 years ago and where I was at. What I knew about women. And I was very naive. Being around women, and many negative experiences along the way, has perhaps taught me more precisely about human nature rather than women in particular.

 

Men and women have traits more common to the gender. There is a lot to learn. When you have got a late start in life, you really know it. When I say something new, I don`t mean something that has just evolved with women, I mean something I was ingnorant of and have discovered the reality that has existed.

 

Forgive my apparent ingratitude towards your offered advice, but it is obvious you are doing everything in your power to generalize past what you have stated, make logical fallacies, and merely mouth platitudes.

 

The act having learned about women over time and the act of having been rejected may have happened during the same time span but correlation does NOT imply causation, and from experience I know that rejection in and of itself does NOT necessarily teach anyone anything new, no matter how much the two longer-term trends (having experienced many rejections over time, and having learned whatever new things about women over time) may have been chronologically correlated in anyone else's life. I've undergone countless rejections which taught me nothing at all, let alone brought me new insights about women--numerous times it's happened that I see a cute woman, walk up and attempt to introduce myself and get walked right by without a word, or say hi and be ignored outright. Since in your view being rejected necessarily implies gaining a new insight about women or human nature, might you care to tell me what I learned from being walked right past and being given no information about what went wrong?

 

"Try, try again" is of little help if your tries provide you zero feedback--a bowler has the advantage of feedback (he can see, say, that he's throwing the ball too far to the right with too much of a spin), but with meeting women such feedback may not necessarily even exist save for being brutally reminded that his approach has failed. As I wrote before, what does one learn when there is no direct information provided on what act specifically turned the final result into touching the hot stove you alluded to?

[Storyrider]

OP, I agree with the other poster who said this is about your attitude, not your looks.

 

From the way you described your picture, I was mentally preparing myself to go blind looking at it!

 

You look good!!!!

[What?]

DBlues,

 

You really got nothing to worry about. You have a hairline that I envy with a passion! Being 5' 7" is not really a big deal. That is only 3 or 4 inches shorter than the average American male. I have a friend that is 5'3" and married to a great lady 5 inches his taller! I would trade your looks for mine any day, and I've had some pretty attractive girls come through the door. I am speaking strictly aesthetics here, not on personality. I'm sure you are a pretty cool cat, and honestly, just keep a positive attitude and be confident! If height bothers you that much, there are plenty of women shorter than you, but that is something that is irrelavent when finding the lady that will be your one and only. I think the only thing that is stopping you from having a serious relationship of any kind is your negative self esteem. Just going by your picture and straightly speaking as another male, you really should not feel this way. Did somebody say something to you at some time in your life? I know I am right on this one, so get in the game and quit worrying about how others perceive you. The ones that judge you solely on looks aren't the ones you want anyway. I think looks aren't really a problem for you, neither is your height. Come on, brother, I know you've seen another guy with a hottie lady and thought "that guy isn't hot, what gives?" Esteem and attitude. 9 times out of 10. You can get there.

[ratzskinakie]

I'm 5'5", have asked 4 girls out in my life, and I have never been rejected (and I found out one of them even had a boyfriend), and I have had good looking girls ask me out on dates too. though non of those dates ever worked out My height is no problem for me at all, it has never been. of course I wish I could be taller, but what can I do about it? Nothing. So why even cry and spend my energy about something that no one can control? Its stupid.

 

It's about living this same life every day until my dying days...sitting in my apartment alone and working or playing the piano long hours to distract myself from feelings of worthlessness. I am just so exhausted from depression, and just so, so sad...

 

Well, that sucks for you. and chances are, if you don't change your irrational thinking, then maybe you will live like that for the rest of your life.

[Mary3]

I am 5'7"

 

Here is the only picture I own of myself (I have a problem with mirrors and photographs).

 

http://chordchanges.googlepages.com/img1.png

 

Please be kind about my freakish head. I have problems with it. I have compulsions to measure and other problems...

 

I also look way too young, which I was told was a major barrier to entry. I just NEED to know that after therapy I won't be frozen out of the market.

 

I think you are CUTE ! I would go out with you .

 

I was thinking maybe you are suffering from a type of mental distress where you see yourself looking like a freakish monster but in reality you look hot ! There is a name for this I will look it up. I think some couseling might help to get you to realize you are handsome

[Mary3]

Body dysmorphic disorder: 30 cases of imagined ugliness

 

 

OBJECTIVE: Body dysmorphic disorder, preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance. The 17 men and 13 women reported a lifetime average of four bodily preoccupations, most commonly "defects" of the hair, nose, and skin. The average age at onset of body dysmorphic disorder was 15 years, and the average duration was 18 years. Seventy-three percent of the patients reported associated ideas or delusions of reference; 73%, excessive mirror checking; and 63%, attempts to camouflage their "deformities." As a result of their symptoms, 97% avoided usual social and occupational activities, 30% had been housebound, and 17% had made suicide attempts. Ninety-three percent of the patients had an associated lifetime diagnosis of a major mood disorder; 33%, a psychotic disorder; and 73%, an anxiety disorder. The patients generally responded poorly to surgical, dermatologic, and dental treatments and to adequate trials of most psychotropic medications, with the exception of fluoxetine and clomipramine (to which more than half had a complete or partial response). CONCLUSIONS: This often secret, chronic disorder can cause considerable distress and impairment, may be related to obsessive-compulsive disorder or mood disorder, and may respond to serotonin reuptake-blocking antidepressants.

[malachai]

deaconblues, i would absolutely agree with everyone who has stated that it is about the attitude and confidence you have in yourself that leads to success or failure. in fact, if you look at any thread that is similar in nature, they all follow the same train of thought. it isn't your looks or wealth or social state that is the problem, it's the lack of confidence and self-worth. i completely agree with that, it's usually spot-on. you then usually hear the common litany of suggestions to "just get out there", or "improve some part of yourself" (usually meaning exercise, or excelling at a hobby/sport/trade, etc), or "don't care what other people think, just care what you think". if you can accomplish this, then things will naturally progress forward.

 

here's where i don't agree so much.

 

those are great suggestions if you are simply experiencing a low point, a funk in your otherwise average life. it gives you a way to get back on the track you once were on. it does nothing to help those of us who have no “standard” life experience to fall back on.

 

i currently live probably very similar to yourself, minus the moving. i have no real friends, i spend all my evenings and weekends by myself, and had my only real relationship just 2 years ago, when i was 28 years old. it lasted 4 months, which was unreal to me and was one of the most monumental times of my life. that relationship was a complete fluke. it was a freak occurrence that happened because the girl i got involved with was very insecure and became infatuated with the first person who was not her prick of an ex-boyfriend. it was not me changing direction or turning over a new leaf. it was an accident.

 

i know you probably feel like your physical appearance is the likely cause of your malady (though like others here have already said, there doesn't seem to be anything even remotely wrong with the way you look). if you’re anything like me, it’s the living alone for a long enough time that causes problems. it takes a huge toll on your social health. i say this because i’m 6 foot, very fit, have been told i’m an attractive guy by a number of women, yet i can’t even maintain conversation with women let alone date them. i can’t even maintain conversation with guys. and it’s not because i don’t talk; i’m very open, friendly and receptive to others. i just don’t know how to make friends. like you, i’ve distracted myself with my music. i’ve also recently completely thrown myself completely into exercising and sports. all these things i love and help me feel good about myself as a person, but do nothing to aide in making friends or relationships.

 

there is a point to this post other than it being a long-winded “i can totally relate” reply. i truly believe that in order to experience success, you need to re-invent yourself. change all the bad social habits you’ve picked up over the time you’ve been alone and build on that. that doesn’t happen by "just getting out there" and hitting on women or joining a yoga class. it takes work. maybe CBT therapy or medications or serious self-development will help, i don’t know. all i know is that it’s probably going to take more than a few replies from a few strangers.

 

i wish you the best, whatever happens

[Trialbyfire]

I think you're very cute.

 

The ladies have it right. Please get some counseling for the other issues and hopefully you will see yourself more accurately when you look in the mirror and, more importantly learn to love and accept yourself.

[deaconblues]

Body dysmorphic disorder: 30 cases of imagined ugliness

 

 

OBJECTIVE: Body dysmorphic disorder, preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance. The 17 men and 13 women reported a lifetime average of four bodily preoccupations, most commonly "defects" of the hair, nose, and skin. The average age at onset of body dysmorphic disorder was 15 years, and the average duration was 18 years. Seventy-three percent of the patients reported associated ideas or delusions of reference; 73%, excessive mirror checking; and 63%, attempts to camouflage their "deformities." As a result of their symptoms, 97% avoided usual social and occupational activities, 30% had been housebound, and 17% had made suicide attempts. Ninety-three percent of the patients had an associated lifetime diagnosis of a major mood disorder; 33%, a psychotic disorder; and 73%, an anxiety disorder. The patients generally responded poorly to surgical, dermatologic, and dental treatments and to adequate trials of most psychotropic medications, with the exception of fluoxetine and clomipramine (to which more than half had a complete or partial response). CONCLUSIONS: This often secret, chronic disorder can cause considerable distress and impairment, may be related to obsessive-compulsive disorder or mood disorder, and may respond to serotonin reuptake-blocking antidepressants.

 

long time sufferer, medically diagnosed a year ago. still doesn't help. the problem with this disorder is that you constantly question whether you have it or are just as hideous as you believe. Also, I have problems trusting compliments...

 

It's like that show Monk...it's an OCD...you just ALWAYS need the answer to some thing that really can't be answered definitevly. Last night I suffered an attack. Today I feel better, but who knows about tonight? It is really unpredictible. I am in CBT for it, but when you live with it for at least 15 years, it becomes like an old shoe...something you just have gotten used to...

[Mary3]

long time sufferer, medically diagnosed a year ago. still doesn't help. the problem with this disorder is that you constantly question whether you have it or are just as hideous as you believe. Also, I have problems trusting compliments...

 

It's like that show Monk...it's an OCD...you just ALWAYS need the answer to some thing that really can't be answered definitevly. Last night I suffered an attack. Today I feel better, but who knows about tonight? It is really unpredictible. I am in CBT for it, but when you live with it for at least 15 years, it becomes like an old shoe...something you just have gotten used to...

 

I am very sorry you suffer from this disease. I watched a show where one woman had 50 plastic surgeries and still saw herself as very ugly.

 

I wish I knew what else you could do for this. Have you tried most things ? What if a girl REALLy liked you , would you let her get close enough ?

[deaconblues]

Well that's another part of the problem. I met a girl online who I like but every time I go 16 hours without talking to her I feel such abandonment - which is really absurd. Sufferers feel as though they are so hideous and unattractive that they require unconditional love...anything else is charity or just plain "she's not that into you". The other thing is rejection...sometimes it takes a very long time to get over rejection and rejections have pushed me to the brink of suicide in the past.

 

I am getting help now, but I just feel like there is no end in sight - this is a part of me and it will isolate me forever...

[pricillia]

No he does not look good... he is adorable! and that smile very nice... looks like it lights up a room to me!

 

Well I would say that because you say that it is so easy to move from job to job, you should stop doing that unless it is helping your future.

 

In the mean time you should not be afraid to bond with people that you have something in common with, and sometimes even if they are not like minded you can still find something about that person that you can lear something from.

 

I would also suggest you getting yourself a wingman... or woman someone who can boast for you to girls that you like... put in a good word if you will.

 

But stop putting yourself down that has to stop because if not then you wont be of use to anyone. Women love men who are secure in themselves and show it.