The marriage counsellor seems to be picking sides?

[lindya]

At the same time, it IS hard to take because I have been criticized by him in every conceivable way - including being told that "no one would put up with me", that my "feelings don't count" and so forth. I spent a few years feeling terribly unworthy, before I finally started to feel angry, and I could feel myself slipping back into unworthy at that last counselling session.

 

It's coming across in your posts that you're feeling unworthy. A lot of what you're saying sounds extremely insightful, but expressed in a doubtful way as if you're afraid to express your thoughts and feelings about this in a clear and unequivocal manner. Obviously these counselling sessions are making you uncomfortable - and it seems as though you don't feel safe enough, within them, to raise your concerns or air your feelings of discomfort.

 

Previous counsellors have been "unsuccessful" insofar as your husband disliked them and wouldn't work with them. What does a counsellor have to be and do in order to keep your husband in their office? What did your counsellor mean when she welcomed your husband back, after his tantrum, with the word "wonderful"? Wonderful in what sense? His looks? His charm? Was it wonderful of him to return to her office after the temper outburst, thereby perhaps validating her a counsellor?

 

I'm speculating and making assumptions...but from some of the things I've read on this forum, a lot of counsellors are out there doing the same thing, and not necessarily with much training and supervised practice/application of theory behind them. Your husband has, at times, been violent to you - and you're now both working with a counsellor who, from what you're saying, is conducting sessions in a way that could be construed as condoning that violent dynamic. It certainly doesn't do much to address it. "Wonderful husband who has anger problem....nitpicking, co-dependent wife..."

 

You mentioned that violence and emotional abuse from your husband are reasons for the two of you taking up counselling. I think the counsellor's responses and approach to this sound pretty inappropriate.

 

Here's is an article you might find interesting.

 

http://www.biscmi.org/documents/MEDIATION_AND_DOMESTIC_VIOLENCE.html

 

It relates to mediation, rather than counselling, in situations that have involved domestic abuse - as yours has. You'll see that the article refers to a general belief, within mediation, that violence can't really be mediated. That it should be treated as a separate issue, dealt with in another forum (eg court). The article then suggests, and I very much agree with this, that in practice you can't really separate the two...the violence being so closely tied up with the relationship conflicts.

 

I've noticed a marked difference between the professional ethics in mediation and those in counselling. In mediation there are pretty clearly laid down principles about the limits of this form of intervention - and the importance of practitioners recognising these limits rather than taking an "anything's possible!" approach. With counselling, there seems to be a more optimistic outlook wherein practitioners are encouraged to believe that they have the ability to intervene therapeutically and effectively in all kinds of situations - even violent ones. I think that's sometimes unrealistic to the point of doing more harm than good. With reference to that article I quoted....

 

The limits of our approaches and helping skills, and the harms we perpetrate by insisting upon some of them in the face of evidence we should do otherwise is an area that deserves honest scrutiny. One test of interventions is to ask whose position will be strengthened by them and whose resources or options will be limited or increased by them.

 

Whose position is this counselling serving and strengthening? Maybe you could privately ask the counsellor whether she would object to you taking a domestic abuse advocacy worker along to the next session. It would be a clear message to her that you're not planning to continue taking responsibility for your husband's abusive (physically and mentally) behaviour. Then again, there's the risk that she would air such a suggestion in front of your husband - and I'd be concerned about the potential consequences of that.

[Sheba]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, lindya. What you have written is very compelling - especially the question you ask about whose position the counselling is strengthening.

 

I am sure both my husband and I walked into that counsellor's office expecting to find some advocacy for our own position. My husband is very certain that I have treated him poorly by, for example, questioning him about his feelings for the co-worker I mentioned. He is convinced that this is an obvious affront that justifies his great anger and I am sure that he expects/hopes that when we get around to discussing that issue I will be told that his view is correct.

 

I know he felt very vindicated when I was called "nitpicking".

 

Interestingly, when I have met alone with the counsellor she has commented repeatedly that I act "just like a battered woman" and asked me if I feel safe. She has counselled battered women and, apparently, WAS a battered woman, so her observation comes from some experience. To me, that makes it all the more odd that she seemed to feel my husband needed validation on his very next visit to her office.

 

Of course he has good qualities or I would not be trying to sort things out with him. My husband is one of those people who seem to have a hidden well of huge hurt. I suspect his mother beat him when he was a little boy. I am sure that she was very cold and rejecting. He has other sad things that have happened in his life. A nurturer like myself, and I guess the counsellor, is bound to be drawn to console the little hurt boy that is somewhere in there.

 

My husband has been through a lot the past several years, including a child that was first a drug addict and then diagnosed as mentally ill, and much more. Our life has been full of strife. People often tell me how he is lucky to have me stick with him and be so supportive, when others may walk away. My life would be so simple and serene without him!

 

I feel as if I am the one taking the hit (sometimes literally) for every bad thing that ever happened to him. I hoped the counsellor would help him see me as a valuable ally and to be cherished.

 

Lindya, I am going to print off what you have written and think about it more. I think I will try to speak with the counsellor prior to our next meeting, which is Wednesday morning.

[Trialbyfire]

Absolutely Sheba, listen to lindya on this. It's almost like you've accepted the physical abuse as part of your just dues for being unworthy. Your counsellor is doing more damage than good.

[lindya]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, lindya. What you have written is very compelling - especially the question you ask about whose position the counselling is strengthening.

 

Credit for that goes to the article I posted a link to. Take a read of it. I wasn't keen on the first paragraph as it provided stats without sources...but I think there were really valid points about the limits of counselling in abusive situations. Particularly this:

 

Abusers routinely try to convince their victims that they are "trying to change" and that she "must help" him to do it; this is one of the most insidious methods used to maintain control over her.

 

That was something I'd never given much consideration to, and it drives home to me how destructive joint counselling could be in placing pressure on a victim of abuse to take responsibility for the abusive behaviour. There are many relationship conflicts where it's appropriate for both parties to shoulder a bit of responsibility - but when it's at the stage where one person is verbally and physically abusing the other, and there's an evident power imbalance, then I agree with the author that well-meaning "you must both take responsibility" intervention could actually perpetuate and worsen the abuse.

 

I know he felt very vindicated when I was called "nitpicking".

 

I bet he did. "I couldn't cope with her nagging any longer. She's got two black eyes, because I told her twice..."

 

Interestingly, when I have met alone with the counsellor she has commented repeatedly that I act "just like a battered woman" and asked me if I feel safe. She has counselled battered women and, apparently, WAS a battered woman, so her observation comes from some experience. To me, that makes it all the more odd that she seemed to feel my husband needed validation on his very next visit to her office.

 

I often have aggressive male clients in my office, and I'm actually quite pleasantly surprised by how mature they can be in accepting me responding assertively (then again, that's in a "safe" professional context - not a domestic one). I grew up watching my mother deal with my father's anger in a very conciliatory manner (he was never physically abusive to her, but would often shout in an emotionally abusive way) and they would both tell me that this was how to deal with men when they got in a rage. I never accepted that - but I've seen a lot of women who do. The anger is defused temporarily by that placating response, but ultimately what they're doing is rewarding anger. Encouraging the angry person to view their own rage as a powerful tool.

 

It doesn't surprise me that your counsellor was a victim of domestic violence. She has that placating attitude suggestive of a woman who's learned to fear men's anger and to protect herself by avoiding confrontation. I think you need a counsellor who's very effective in facing and managing confrontation - and my gut feeling is that two counsellors (one male, one female) might be best, if counselling is a route you feel you want to carry on pursuing.

 

A nurturer like myself, and I guess the counsellor, is bound to be drawn to console the little hurt boy that is somewhere in there.

 

But then how does that little boy ever grow up into a competent adult if he's constantly nurtured?

 

I hoped the counsellor would help him see me as a valuable ally and to be cherished.

 

The word "ally" suggests two equals with a healthy balance of power between them. Can this counsellor promote such a thing if she's not able to respond to his inappropriate outbursts with firm "not acceptable" messages rather than nurturing, placating "wonderful you" strokes?

 

Lindya, I am going to print off what you have written and think about it more. I think I will try to speak with the counsellor prior to our next meeting, which is Wednesday morning.

 

Best of luck - and keep us posted on how you get on.

[Sheba]

I have left a message on the counsellor's answering machine telling her that I need to meet with her or speak with her before our next meeting.

 

I have pondered the last meeting some more and it occured to me that another odd thing was said by the counsellor: that I needed to learn to forgive. Now, I do harbour some resentments, which I have expressed, but so does he - and he has similarly made them clear. So, again, I wonder why I am being told to learn to forgive, but he is not.

 

Lindya, you may have got to the nub more than you realize, with one of your observations. During one of my first meetings alone with the counsellor, she told me that she and I would work on changing him. Interesingly, this is close to but not quite what you have said: he has never suggested to me that he feels he needs to change. Maybe he said so to her? They did meet alone once. In any event, I am surely enlisted by her to help him.

 

I will let you know the outcome of my conversation. Thank you for your concern, and yours too TrialbyFire. Trial by fire sounds like the story of my life over the past few years, by the way.

[Trialbyfire]

Good luck Sheba. If this counsellor can't take into consideration your perspective or needs and incorporate it into the healing process, she's not the one for you. Abuse has to be taken seriously.

 

I'm wondering if this counsellor has some old-fashioned ideals about marriage, where the man is the king of the castle and the wife needs to always be the one to bend, regardless of the situation. I hope I'm wrong but if I'm not, get someone who isn't so biased and can provide the two of you with the proper tools to have an honest go at it, if this is what you both want.

[lindya]

I have pondered the last meeting some more and it occured to me that another odd thing was said by the counsellor: that I needed to learn to forgive. Now, I do harbour some resentments, which I have expressed, but so does he - and he has similarly made them clear. So, again, I wonder why I am being told to learn to forgive, but he is not.

 

Maybe learning to forgive has been a bit of an issue for the counsellor? When she criticises you (eg for nitpicking) might she really be criticising herself? Especially if she still carries some feelings of guilt and shame about the abuse she was subjected to - eg suspects that she brought it on herself by being overly critical. Again, I'm speculating...but that's all one can ever do when it comes to figuring out why people behave in certain ways that are difficult to understand.

 

In any event, I am surely enlisted by her to help him.

 

And being kept in that role where you constantly fluctuate between nurturer, victim - and at times, no doubt, persecutor. I'm on a bit of a Drama Triangle kick just now, having recently felt that I was being drawn into somebody else's and looking for ways to recover my balance. Here's a link - you might find it a useful reference point.

 

http://www.lynneforrest.com/html/the_faces_of_victim.html

 

Good luck Sheba. If this counsellor can't take into consideration your perspective or needs and incorporate it into the healing process, she's not the one for you. Abuse has to be taken seriously.

 

Absolutely. I had to weigh in on this thread, because various things about it were really troubling me. Now I'm clearer about what those troubling things were.

 

PS I love your "I'll always cherish my initial misconceptions about you" signature, Tbf....that's an excellent one!

[JackJack]

Let us know what the counselor has said to you after your meet with her. It would interesting to hear what she has to say.

 

IMO, she just comes across as a little to interested in trying helping your husband(if you want to call it that) and not you and him both or the marriage as a whole.

[Trialbyfire]

PS I love your "I'll always cherish my initial misconceptions about you" signature, Tbf....that's an excellent one!

Thanks, it's so appropriate for my last relationship.

 

Btw, the first time I saw your sig, it made me laugh out loud. Have we got issues for you...

[Mr. Lucky]

He has hit me on two occasions - both times in the upper arms. On one other occasion he squeezed my hand hard enough to leave bruises. On countless occasions he has called me stupid and crazy and told me I have ruined his life and that he had had it etc... Then, a few days later he is telling me he loves me and that I make his life worth living. Not that he apologizes, mind you. He doesn't. He harbours his feelings of justification and doesn't give them up.

My concern for you, Sheba, is that the feeling you describe that your H thinks he is justified in hitting you is exactly what I see in my Father In-law. He feels my MIL's nagging provokes him to the point that the physical abuse is a warranted response. She is 80 years old (this has been going on for 30 years ) and in constant fear and apprehension - is that what you want? I don't think that that level of anger and aggression can be "counseled" away. You don't say why you stick it out - are there kids involved?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sheba]

I spoke with the counsellor today. Tomorrow is our next session with her.

 

I told her I was very puzzled and worried after our last meeting, and that I felt her approach was less even-handed than it had been in the past.

 

She did apologize for using the word "nitpicking" and said she saw the way I talked at my husband as a sign of my hurt and my need to have him pay attention to my feelings.

 

She also expressed a lot of sympathy for my husband and the deep hurt that prompts his great anger at me. She explicitly enlisted me, as the one with the most support/personal resources, to try "laying down my gun" first and see what happened.

 

I described to her how my husband used that "nitpicking" against me. I also told her how he also very bitterly commented on my "needing a long time to heal" - something which I did not say, but the counsellor did. He recalls that as coming from me, but he is mistaken. So, she says she will ask each of us to describe our view of the last session when we get together tomorrow.

 

My initial response is to keep trying with her. Including her suggestion that I try "laying down my gun" - in other words, biting my tongue, for a couple of weeks.

 

Thoughts?

[lindya]

She did apologize for using the word "nitpicking" and said she saw the way I talked at my husband as a sign of my hurt and my need to have him pay attention to my feelings.

 

It might be helpful if she could express that in front of your husband. It wouldn't be ideal if you got into a pattern where she's being hard on you in front of your husband then adopting a more empathic stance when she's talking privately to you.

 

She also expressed a lot of sympathy for my husband and the deep hurt that prompts his great anger at me. She explicitly enlisted me, as the one with the most support/personal resources, to try "laying down my gun" first and see what happened.

 

If your husband is the one with the deeper historic hurt and problematic issues (you said he had several marriages behind him) then is that something he's considered addressing in individual counselling? Did the counsellor explain why she feels that you have more support and personal resources?

 

So, she says she will ask each of us to describe our view of the last session when we get together tomorrow.

 

It'll be interesting for you to hear your husband's view of the last session - and see if his initial feelings about that session have changed at all.

 

My initial response is to keep trying with her. Including her suggestion that I try "laying down my gun" - in other words, biting my tongue, for a couple of weeks.

 

Do you have coping strategies for that? If you have to bite your tongue when things are stressful or someone's criticising you, what do you do with those feelings? Is there someone trustworthy (friend or family member) you can discuss it with on a face to face basis? A message board is a good ancillary support system, but not necessarily an adequate substitute for talking to a RL friend.

[Sheba]

Thank you for another thoughtful response, lindya.

 

I will be interested to see what happens tomorrow. My husband does know that I was troubled about the counsellor after the last session, but he and I did not discuss why I was troubled.

 

I agree that it would help if the counsellor were to express her regret for her choice of words in front of my husband. I wish she would!

 

The counsellor's plan involves both of us receiving individual counselling. She asked us each to write our life story for her and I have and I have met with her alone 4 or 5 times. My husband met with her once. She proposed that his individual counselling would start once he had written his life story and he has yet to write it. Perhaps he is deliberately avoiding it? He has been busy at work.

 

I do have more support and personal resources. I have a very nice family - two older sisters and both parents, all very loving towards me. If I needed money, my father would give me as much as I wanted and more. I have very close and loving relationships with my two children. I have some good, smart friends. My husband has no close friends; an elderly, needy father; two brothers who who really like me and who live in other cities; a teenage son filled with anger at his dad; a schizophrenic son and an adult married son. Only the last person, his oldest son, would be supportive of my husband. That son is a very kind and loving person and I am sure he would want to help.

 

I don't have any coping strategies to help me not feel defensive and to bite my tongue. You make a very good point, lindya, that I should give some thought to this. I have deliberately avoided drawing others into the issues between my husband and myself. I fear that those people will become defensive of me and that there may be no turning back if I don't protect my husband's relationships with my family and friends. I really have only one friend who is aware of the intensity of our discord. She lives two time zones away but would take my call. I will try to think about other strategies as well.

 

Unfortunately, if my husband were really angry I would not feel able to leave the house as he has tended, in the past, to take out anger at me against my children and I can't risk that. My son is already barely able to contain his anger at his stepfather and I am very worried that there will one day be a physical confrontation between the two of them.

[Sheba]

Just had my first test in "no bitching/nitpicking"....my husband says he can't make our counselling session tomorrow.

[dropdeadlegs]

Of course he has good qualities or I would not be trying to sort things out with him. My husband is one of those people who seem to have a hidden well of huge hurt. I suspect his mother beat him when he was a little boy. I am sure that she was very cold and rejecting. He has other sad things that have happened in his life. A nurturer like myself, and I guess the counsellor, is bound to be drawn to console the little hurt boy that is somewhere in there.

Sheba,

 

The more you reveal, the more concerned I become. I was a fourth wife. My H had some serious childhood problems. I am a nurturer by nature, I see "the crying hidden child in need of love." I had two children that weren't as verbal as your two are, but they were screaming in their own way that things were not right. My son left my home at 16 because he couldn't stand to see me blinded by things that were so obvious to him. My parents were supportive, but very concerned about some things. I continued to ignore all the red flags presented by those who truly loved me. I paid a dear price.

 

My story is different, I wasn't ever physically abused. I always felt that I could leave at any moment. My H was sexually abused, but I did not know this until less than a year before our eventual separation and divorce. I learned this from his mother, but he never admitted it to me, swore it never happened. That abuse entered into my own home, my own family. It was fairly benign, he touched my 13 year old daughter in an inappropriate way that cannot be called molestation, but it was enough to send me packing.

 

My point is that abuse can be overcome, or it can transcend into a lifelong problem. Please keep your eyes open and your heart as detached as possible. Your children are concerned. They are openly telling you so. Has it occurred to you that they may fear for themselves? they have seen things, or at least know things, that children (even teenagers) should not have to bear. You have made a choice for yourself that affects them as well. I wish I had ended my marriage before my daughter experienced the unsavory moment that I could have avoided had I left long before. this is the same H that I went to counseling with, but in my logical mind, our marriage was over even before counseling. There were too many issues and no amount of counseling was going to smooth them all over. I knew there were sexual issues before I knew of his abuse. Before he made those issues part of my families problem. I could have nipped it all in the bud, but I saw the fragile child, and i continued to nurture.

 

The fact that he was married three timed before me should have been enough to make me run. He was 30 when we married, that's 4 wives by age 30! Still, I was sure I was the one to "fix" whatever was wrong.

 

My love certainly wasn't near about enough to tackle very deep problems. He didn't hit me but my ego and feelings were in a constant state of bruising. He was passive aggressive and I often wondered if physical aggression could possibly hurt more. I'm glad that I still don't know.

 

Please be careful. It is easier said than done, but try to think of your situation as an outsider . Tell yourself your story and try to think what you would advise someone else in your shoes to do. Think of your marriage as your daughters marriage. Would you advise her to seek counseling assuming she has had your experiences? Would you advise her to stay or to leave? That works best for me.

 

Best wishes for a wonderful outcome. I do not mean to imply that your life is anything like mine was because there are obvious differences. I just wish I had done things differently and not harmed my children so much by my bad judgment. It was incredibly selfish of me to do so. I am lucky that my daughter is still a big part of my life and she has been so forgiving. My son has not been so forgiving. Our relationship is a struggle for both of us. I am certain that he lost respect for me, and I may never get that back.

[Sheba]

DDlegs - I think you have given me the Coles notes of a long and painful story. I appreciate that you have taken the time.

 

I feel already some of the guilt you describe. My son is on the verge, I feel, of protecting me with his fists. I feel that if that happens, he will become an abuser and I will have lead him into that role. This is the crisis that I am trying to avert by counselling. I realize that things just cannot continue as they have.

 

I believe my son DID fear for himself. He is now over 6 feet tall and 200 lbs and feels quite powerful. But I still can see some fear in him. And, I feel horrible that he has had that burden. About five years ago, when I saw some fear in my son, I drew a line for my husband with respect to how he could treat my children. I explained to him that he frightened my son, that it was intolerable and that he needed to let me deal with all discipline of my kids. My husband has honoured that line. My son and my husband developed a good, though somewhat fragile relationship after that.

 

Ironic, isn't it? You would think I could have drawn a line like that for myself, years ago. I guess I am drawing one now, finally.

 

My son still harbours some fear, I think, despite my apparently succesful intervention. I think his fear drives his anger which he believes is only on my behalf. Another irony is in the fact that my husband knows how he has provoked my son and I can see my husband is fearful of a physical confrontation with my very large son, as well as fearful that he will lose me, and very, very sad that his relationship with my son is trashed.

 

Thank God I have no fear of sexual abuse. I don't have any reason at all to worry that my husband would be inappropriate with my daughter. I realize that these sort of things don't come waving banners or with a written warning - or no mother's daughter would get hurt by their stepfather - but it is truly unimaginable. A very real worry is what she is learning about relationships from this terrible lesson I am teaching her.

 

I am doing the best I can with a bad situation, short of divorce. I have been very open with the children. They have talked to their father, my ex. They know that my husband and I are in counselling. Their right to a peaceful home has been acknowledged, and we have apologized to them for what they have been put through. My son has met the counsellor and talked to her alone. My daughter has been offered the same opportunity. My youngest stepson has also been told the same things, though his mother impedes the opportunity to let him meet with the counsellor.

 

For many years my husband faced one crisis after another: his mother's death by cancer, his ex-wife's near death (a crisis for his children and therefore himself), a long custody battle over his youngest, a drug addicted teenaged son, and finally the diagnosis of his middle child with schizophrenia. All those years I was giving him the "excuse" of the stress of all of these events, but I realize now that I should have demanded more for myself and my children. I hope I am not too late.

 

I will be vigilant, DDlegs. I will watch and talk and be very ready to give up the marriage for my children.

[dropdeadlegs]

Sheba, your response was comforting, yet here I sit crying quietly.

 

I very much hope for that wonderful outcome for your marriage and I'm, at the same time, somewhat bitter when confronted with a person who likely has some of my same issues.

 

On another thread I am lauding myself at how far my self esteem has come, how improved it is. I am also very aware of how little has been accomplished and how far I still need to go.

 

You remind me so much of myself, the person that loves to the point of loving too much, at times. I may be off base and you may not see any similarity. Forgive me.

 

Wouldn't the world be a much better place if we all worked on our problems before we enter into another relationship, dragging with us the same tired, worn out baggage? Of course it would. I had my baggage, and he had two Hefty bags and an athletic bag. Even his luggage had worn out.

 

No, there were no banners to predict what was to come. I never saw THAT coming, and neither did my daughter (she's now 18.) I have learned more after the fact than I ever knew before.

 

I sooo wish you well. Thank you for responding with such kindness. It's hard not to bring your own experiences to the table when discussing the problems of others. I know my story is very different, but I appreciate that you took the point I wanted to make and responded in such an understanding way. That is a wonderful trait to possess.

[Totoro]

A man should never, ever, under any circumstances, no matter *what* he has been through, hit his wife hard enough to leave bruises. EVER.

 

Period. End of story.

 

If he ever lays a hand on you again, leave him. Get a restraining order if necessary.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this makes me very angry. That b*****d doesn't deserve you.

[Totoro]

Sheba, I say this not to be rude or disrespectful, but in an attempt to convey my concern:

 

Why you are even bothering with marriage counselling is beyond me.

The man is an abuser. It's plain as day. He will probably not stop. And even if he stops, you will always have the painful memories of what he has done in the past.

 

Get an *individual* therapist--a good one--who has dealt with battered women.

 

My thoughts are with you.

[Sheba]

Totoro - I don't read your comments as disrespectful. I appreciate the intensity of your response. Believe me, I never imagined myself as a person who would put up with any of this - not the name calling, not the hitting, none of it.

 

The counsellor does have experience counselling battered women and was once a battered woman herself.

 

DDLegs - I feel for you too. You also remind me of myself - your role as a mother is obviously the one most important to you. I can't imagine what you have gone through, but I bet that you were truly shocked to find yourself in the midst of that disaster. I feel very angry at the man who took advantage of your love and kindness and betrayed you in the worst possible way.

 

Now I find myself wondering: is my husband like your ex, DDLegs? My husband is a very smart man (3 University degrees) who is far too proud. All that pride hides a bottomless pit of shame and insecurity. At his best he is very funny and charming and sensitive to others, generous to a fault. At his worst, scary.

 

My maternal grandfather was a cruel abuser, who had - on his own - an epiphany, and made himself over into the most kind and loving person you could ever hope to meet. Perhaps he is one in a billiion? I don't know. The story of his life gives me some hope.

 

I will go alone to the counsellor's today and ask her if she thinks there is any hope. I wonder if she is replaying her own life with mine and trying to do it better "this time"? I keep reminding her that I have children - I don't have time to risk more harm coming to them.

[Mr. Lucky]

My maternal grandfather was a cruel abuser, who had - on his own - an epiphany, and made himself over into the most kind and loving person you could ever hope to meet. Perhaps he is one in a billiion? I don't know. The story of his life gives me some hope.

If you had to guess, Sheba, which would the more likely outcome - that your H would undergo a similar transformation OR that he would get angry, lose control and hit you again?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sheba]

Mr. Lucky, I hear you. Of course it is a very rare person who has insight like my grandfather did and stops his abusive behaviour all on his own. Or even with help, I suppose. And, you could probably go a little further and ask me what I learned from my mother, who was herself a victim of child abuse: my grandfather's epiphany came after his children were adults.

 

Today the counsellor told me that she believes my husband was sexually abused as a child. She acknowledged that she was guessing, but said that it was the explanation that fit best with all that she has heard. She asks me to try to be as gentle and non-defensive as I am able, for a couple of weeks. I think she believes that she can get him to the point where he will disclose/admit what trauma he suffered in that period of time.

 

Then, she says, he will finally have insight into what he has become, and how he has hurt others as a result of the wrong done to him. He will, she believes, direct his anger to the appropriate person and she predicts that if that happens he will one day come to me begging my forgiveness.

 

Now, I am in this far and of course I am prepared to continue for at least the two weeks she asks of me. I expect that if I do not press my own needs in the least little bit, and if I take off with my kids here and there for outings, my husband and I could get through that period of time without a battle. I know it will take effort on my part, as I have become very, very angry myself.

 

Dropdeadlegs, if you read this, I am hoping you will be inclined to respond. You mentioned some "sexual issue" in your husband's past. Some other readers may have some personal experience they are perhaps willing to share.

[dropdeadlegs]

Dropdeadlegs, if you read this, I am hoping you will be inclined to respond. You mentioned some "sexual issue" in your husband's past.

I'm not sure which aspect you would like to know more about, so I will guess. If you have a particular angle you would like me to cover I am happy to.

 

The childhood abuse: It's not the average fare, but with abuse you don't always get the whole story. My understanding is that his sister reported it to their mother. It involved his father and another man having anal sex and the children being made to watch the act on several occasions. His mother never sought out any type of counseling for the children, just left the father. As I said earlier, when I asked my H about it he denied any knowledge of this and said it never happened. When I told his mother of this, she said she was GLAD he didn't remember and wished his sister didn't. I, however beg to differ. Who knows if there was more to it, or not. It may be much harder for a man to admit things of this nature because there is a stigma of being thought of as homosexual

 

The daughter story: What he did could only be classified as battery according to the police detective. He caressed her thigh in what can only be described as in a sexual manner, starting near the knee and moving up to the outer thigh where your panties sit, to the point of his hand being inside the panties. I was not home when this took place. I learned of this from the school counselor after my daughter shared the info with her best friend, who in turn insisted that if my daughter didn't tell, that she was going to tell. I confronted my H that evening, and he didn't deny anything. He fully admitted that he had done it and that he knew it was wrong.

 

The aftermath: I was very confused, and being the kind of person I am, I had what I now think of as completely irrational thoughts. I immediately removed myself and my children from my home, and contacted the police the following day. I contacted social services, but I was actually looking for ways to save my marriage and my family. I spoke to a therapist who specialized in adult sexual abuse of children. I urged my H to get help. He did visit the therapist 3 times, but stopped when I indicated that I could see no future for our marriage. It honestly took weeks for it all to sink in, but I armed myself with knowledge. Social services stated that if I took him back with knowledge of this kind, and anything ever happened to any of my children, that I could be charged with neglect, and child endangerment, and ultimately lose my children. The therapist said that this kind of problem is almost impossible to correct, that it is so deep seated that recovery through therapy would take years, at best. He meant three years of weekly sessions at the very least, more likely more, and that he had never suggested a patient was well enough to live with children. Health insurance does not cover this type of mental problem and sessions were in excess of $100 weekly. He also stated that patient confidentiality had to be waived by my H. He encouraged me to let him go, because he has seen more agony of this type in almost every case. After every visit he contacted me, and when my H stopped going he let me know about it.

 

I had filed for divorce by this time and I guess he was only interested in help if it meant I would be inclined to reconcile. I knew nothing about this type of mental illness before this happened. I never saw anything that would suggest this would/could happen. I knew he had sexual issues, but I thought of them more as intimacy issues, or maybe even inhibitions. A big problem in our marriage was his non-need for sex. He only seemed to be willing when he was intoxicated, but it took me a long time to recognize that as we both were pretty heavy drinkers. It wasn't until I made him quit drinking, and I stopped as well, that it became so obvious to me.

 

That's the nutshell info. If you want something specific, I'm happy to oblige.

[Sheba]

DDLegs

 

That is quite a story. I am relieved for you that you are able to relate it so matter-of-factly, though I can imagine you were utterly horrified and shocked at the time. I suspect that "reeling" only begins to describe your reaction. I am inclined to read a little between the lines and I think you have a lot of courage.

 

I am sure you are right, that there is more to your ex-husband's story than his protestations about his memory. He made his problem yours, and your daughter's and so you obviously had to move on and leave him with his demons.

 

I admit that there are some sexual issues between my husband and I. Generally, when we do have sex it is very good and very loving. However, it must always be initiated by him. He feels pressured about sex very easily, to the point where I do not dare to hint that I am interested, especially not while we are in bed. This is an ongoing but small issue. I feel frustrated on occasion, but I have learned that it is better to wait him out and have a really nice encounter rather than risk rejection or, worse, a big blow up. My husband has expressed a fear that he has a low sex drive because has an unusually low testosterone level, which seems highly unlikely except that he has little body hair. Other than that - no way. He has more signs of an excess of testosterone!

 

Obviously, I would like a warranty that this troubled man I live with poses no other risks to my children. I realize that there is no such guarantee, but I think that I will discuss the concern with the counsellor when I next see her alone. I have put these children through enough as it is.

 

Thanks again DDLegs, for your concern and your willingness to share your stories and what you have learned.

[dropdeadlegs]

Sheba, matter of fact is pretty much how I am about most things.

 

My ex H is now deceased. He can't hurt me, or anybody else, anymore. He died less than 18 months after my story unfolded, in a boating accident. It has been over four years since that fateful night, so I have had time to heal and move on, but I was very bitter for awhile. There is so much more to the aftermath, but I provided the info that pertained to your interest. It got crazier, but that's all in the past. If I give it thought in an emotional way, it can still make me cry.

 

What doesn't kill us truly can make us stronger.

 

Keep us posted as to your story. I want the epiphany to happen!