The marriage counsellor seems to be picking sides?

[Sheba]

So, it has been a week since my last meeting with the counsellor. It seems like months. Tomorrow we go again, together.

 

Over the past week I have been as nice as I can manage. It wasn't easy. My husband is a difficult person who feels compelled to try to control me (and the kids) with rather dramatic comments. I bit my tongue when he was snorting in disgust and rolling his eyes and telling me I was a child because I had left my shoes at the door. I bit my tongue when he gave me **** about not putting one thing of mine away and for putting something of his away. I cheerfully agreed when he ordered me to take something to my office that, in his view, did not belong at home. And, with the greatest effort, I said very little when he threatened my son with a dramatic consequence for failing to apologize for something rude my son had done (my son says to me that he will apologize when my husband does).

 

I can barely stand it. However, I have met my commitment to the counsellor to be "gentle and non-defensive" for the first week. Another week to go.

[dropdeadlegs]

I can barely stand it. However, I have met my commitment to the counsellor to be "gentle and non-defensive" for the first week. Another week to go.

You sure have! Kudos to you for standing up to your end of the bargain.

 

Has he read his book/done his homework?

[Trialbyfire]

Okay, I'm going to speak up one more time in this thread and then walk away. I don't think this is right.

 

This therapist should be working with both of you separately in IC, then meeting both your needs in MC. She's put his needs first with no compromise, which I completely disagree with. Whether he was abused as a child or not, does not make it your problem although you can help because you care. That you have to live with his continued verbal abuse, doesn't strike me well. Your therapist should be setting up some kind of catch phrase, where when he's going over the top, you are allowed to say this phrase gently so he can also learn a little restraint, especially when it involves his interactions with your child/children. At the same time, you also have to learn a little restraint. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[Sheba]

DDLegs - no homework done, but his book was purchased and he has read a few pages. Baby steps towards doing what he was told. However, he did not try to weasel out of today's counselling session and he is very busy at work and could easily have found an excuse.

 

Our meeting today was a total switch from the usual. I walked in and nicely said that I was not going to talk since I always talked and it was his turn. And then I shut up. I might have said 5 sentences to my usual 500. This gave the counsellor a chance to expound, rather well, on the sorts of things that people do when they are being haunted by some hurt in their childhood. She touched upon all of the wrongs DH has committed in our married life. She did so in general terms, without attacking him.

 

And, she asked him questions. Asked him to admit that he was a relationship addict, and when she got a qualified admission to that, she described for him how relationship addicts behaved and, in particular, how they pushed away people who got "too close". She explained how this type of addiction was created by a lack of nuturing, or worse, in childhood. And, she got him to admit that he had not been nurtured by his mother, at all, to his recollection.

 

Anyway, she went on and on, insisting on a few admissions (easier ones) and I am sure that if he did not see himself in all that she was saying, he realized that she was describing how she saw him.

 

I was relieved that she was not "stroking" his ego today,but rather being very gently understanding of how he might have become a person so full of defensiveness, anger and fear that he took out those bad feelings on people who did not earn them.

 

It was more like an individual session because I remained so quiet, and that was my aim and she picked up on that very quickly and exploited my silence as I had intended. So, though he is definitely an "avoidant" personality - another matter brought to his attention, his avoiding was unsuccessful today.

 

Now, I will wait for the fall out from this. In the past it has sometimes taken a few days for things like this to sink in for him, and then he acts out. So, my tolerance levels may well be stretched even more, but I have promised another week of being "non-defensive and gentle" and I will try my best to do it so long as the children are not involved in any of that acting out.

 

To those still reading this long, frustrating thread and this long post, thank you for your interest and wish me luck, please.

[Sheba]

Well, having just done a google search and some reading about "relationship addicts" I admit to a further drop in the level of hope I feel.

 

I certainly do see the pattern in my husband's life. He was married at 19/20, then had a serious romance during the end of that marriage, then a string of girlfriends, then a marriage, and as that second marriage ended started a relationship that became his third marriage and then, as that third marriage was on its last legs started up with me. So, it would seem he is never without a woman and is always getting the next one "lined up" in advance.

 

I can't imagine that I am somehow "the one" who will be the last woman in the life of a man who has been searching for an elusive love for all of his life, never satisfied with/satisfying whoever he is with.

 

I don't know where this train of thought will lead me.

[dropdeadlegs]

You know I'm still reading! I am very interested in being privy to the workings of MC since my own experience was so short-lived. I would like to see a good outcome, yet watch it unfold, versus just hearing "MC was a big help in my marriage." I need more detail than that.

 

A lot of what your counselor said about your H could have been applied to my ex-H. Four marriages by age 29 (relationship addict), avoidant personality, and lacking nurture from his sexually deviant, then completely absent father (not sure about his mother, but I suspect not very nurturing either.)

 

Of course psychology has always intrigued me. I considered majoring in psych or sociology in college, but then I had to drop out.

 

I will certainly pray for you. Pray that your week won't stretch that patience so much. Pray that you can see even a glimmer of the counseling working, even though I know it' still early in the process.

 

Keep this thread alive till the end, no matter what the outcome, please. Even if you only post once a week, or even every other week.

[dropdeadlegs]

Well, having just done a google search and some reading about "relationship addicts" I admit to a further drop in the level of hope I feel.

 

I certainly do see the pattern in my husband's life. He was married at 19/20, then had a serious romance during the end of that marriage, then a string of girlfriends, then a marriage, and as that second marriage ended started a relationship that became his third marriage and then, as that third marriage was on its last legs started up with me. So, it would seem he is never without a woman and is always getting the next one "lined up" in advance.

 

I can't imagine that I am somehow "the one" who will be the last woman in the life of a man who has been searching for an elusive love for all of his life, never satisfied with/satisfying whoever he is with.

 

I don't know where this train of thought will lead me.

My friend and I call that type an "overlapper." She lived with one for 7 years. He did everything you mentioned, two marriages and several long term relationships, two involving children, and every one ended not long after he had started up another, usually in another town or state. Most of the women didn't find out about the new love until he was already gone. Oh, I forgot, he is now married again. Last I heard his new young wife was pregnant, so they must have had that baby by now.

 

I don't have any other knowledge, but I admit it looks grim. However, he was not involved in counseling with those relationships, was he? That could be your "hope."

 

Keep your chin up, Sheba. If nothing else good comes from it all, you will know you gave your all trying. There's a lot to be said for that.

[Sheba]

Another week gone by, another meeting with the marriage counsellor. DDLegs, this post is for you.

 

There was progress today: today my husband said he wanted me to forgive him.

 

To me, this is an indirect admission that he has made mistakes. He has never admitted to any such thing in the past. I told him that it meant a lot to me to hear him say that.

 

It was quite an experience for me to air a complaint to him and to have a neutral third party present to back up my position, though in a very gentle manner. It left him unable to employ his usual strategies of telling me that I am crazy for holding my views.

 

I am quite worried that within the next few days he will reflect upon this admission, regret it, get angry about having made it and return to his usual stance that I have a problem and all of his behaviour is not capable of being criticized. Last time we reached a similar point with a different therapist he stopped going to the therapist, declared that he wasn't buying the theory that he had to change and carried on in the same fashion.

 

I do have some hope though, because our current therapist has earned some respect from him. Maybe a breakthrough???

 

Wish me luck....

[dropdeadlegs]

Good luck!

 

Thank you for continuing the progress reports. Let's just hope that this time, with this therapist, things will be different. At least he is continuing to go to sessions. Sometimes it takes hearing the same message several times for that message to sink in and make sense.

 

Try not to project what his actions will be this week, though I know it's hard not to with so much history. I'm sure you want to prepare for the worst while hoping of the best.

 

I will continue to keep you in my thoughts.

[4whatItsWorth]

I won't spend time, money, energy, whatever on a relationship that requires too much of any of those factors.

 

I probably sound bitter or sad to some.

 

Honestly, I thought you sounded a lot like me. Why try to fix a car that's been blown to pieces? I admire, but do not understand, people who still wnat to be with ppl who cheated on them. I'd never work on that...and I would probably not work on somebody who doesn't respect me and call me names.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere.

[dropdeadlegs]

Honestly, I thought you sounded a lot like me. Why try to fix a car that's been blown to pieces? I admire, but do not understand, people who still wnat to be with ppl who cheated on them. I'd never work on that...and I would probably not work on somebody who doesn't respect me and call me names.

 

You have to draw the line somewhere.

Quite honestly, this is a fairly new ideal of mine. I came to this conclusion after doing exactly the opposite for my whole "relationship" life. Ultimately getting the same eventual conclusion of splitting up.

 

It wasn't until I found someone that I didn't see as having potential, but as the total package, that I realized all that "work" is just that, WORK! If the relationship requires so much work, then I'm in the wrong relationship. I met someone that shares the same ideals and goals as I do. I don't see him as having minor flaws I can certainly "fix", I don't see anything that needs to be fixed. Neither of us is perfect, of course, but we're close enough to perfect for each other. And probably not close enough for anyone in our pasts. I can't believe how easy it is to be with and love this man!

 

All this talk about relationships being a lot of hard work is BALONEY. I have enough work in my life, thank you, and a relationship should give me strength, hope, and support for all the REAL work in my life.

 

I feel so enlightened! It's like a switch has been flicked and I suddenly see so clearly, as if I'm no longer in the dark fumbling around, trying to find my way.

[Sheba]

When our relationship started there was no work to do. I certainly didn't want to change him. In fact, I would have said that I wanted him to stay exactly as he was! By the time the things went bad our lives were intertwined in ways that are hard to unwind.

 

I don't feel as if I have to "work" on other relationships in my life. It is not work for me to be interested in the lives of my friends and family, nor is it hard to be kind and loving towards them, or to find time to spend with them. So, I can imagine the sort of relationship that you two speak of.

 

I think that I allowed things to get so bad because my husband has had a lot of terrible things happen in his life in recent years. Death, illness, custody battles, and, heartbreakingly, one of his children diagnosed with a profound mental illness. So, every time he was cruel to me, I made excuses for him. He IS under a ton of stress.

 

Making excuses was my mistake. I became more and more the whipping post for all that stress. Taking it out on me became a habit for him. Of course, he has a huge problem within himself or he would not have taken his stress out on me in the manner he has. I too have a problem, or I would not have allowed it.

 

I am not prepared to allow it any longer, now that I recognize how it affects my children. They do come first. My husband knows this and he feels now that he is walking on eggshells at home for fear of provoking my son again. And so he should. Our lives are intertwined, but I am not "trapped". I can get out of this situation.

 

I am reading the book the counsellor suggested. I am listening to my husband and to myself. I harbour some hope that things will change so that we both can be in a relationship that is "no work", hopefully with each other.

[dropdeadlegs]

Sheba,

 

If your husband puts in even half of the honest reflection of how you arrived where you are, there is a hope. You seem to have a clear understanding that it takes two to tango. You state your H's contributions to the problem and clearly state your own contributions. I think the most important part is that you recognize that while entwined, you are not trapped. That and your children should not suffer from your choices.

 

My reply to 4whatItsWorth was not intended as anything other than an explanation of how I personally came to my conclusion. My conclusion will not be right for all, it wasn't right for me until it suddenly was. This is your thread and I will try to stay on the topic because this is an important subject and there is so much to be learned.

 

I hope that in the coming weeks the eggshells will start disappearing. It is tense for all involved to tiptoe around. That won't happen overnight as it takes time to believe there is any change at all.

 

Regardless of anything I say or think, you do have my full support in this situation. I want a positive outcome for you and your family.

[Sheba]

DDLegs - don't worry! I feel your support and don't read a word you say as criticism of me.

 

I am trying. I am completely honest in our counselling sessions, even when it is highly unflattering to my own ego. I think my husband is responding to that "example" being set by me. I can tell it is much harder for him, with his massive defense mechanisms. But, he keeps coming and that gives me hope.

 

I will continue to talk to my son and watch him for signs of stress - I can't give up that vigilance, of course. So far, so good. He is speaking to his stepfather again - not engaging him, but responding to any overtures in a friendly and appropriate manner. So, a bit progress there.

 

I do appreciate your advice and interest, DDLegs, and pay attention. I am going to try to release myself from the stress of "anticipating" a fall out from our last session.

 

Thank you for your good wishes for us.

[Sheba]

Another week gone by, another counselling session.

 

We focused on and discussed real issues and incidents. Again, I appreciated having a third person present to validate my feelings which were so often invalidated by my husband.

 

Both of us are angry and resentful and that is coming out LOUD and CLEAR. What is also happening, however, is that the way things have evolved between us is being exposed to the light. In the therapists office, my husband can't escape by being loud and obnoxious, so he is finally forced to actually hear me.

 

Being heard is a good thing for me. Even if there is no change in my husband's behaviour, I finally feel heard.

 

We both left the therapist's office very angry. In fact, we got into the car together and he got out at a red light to walk back to work. Lo and behold, in the time it took for him to walk (15 minutes) he had calmed down enough to phone me and say he was sorry that things took a turn for the worse and that he loved me.

 

This may not sound like progress to some, but for us it is a giant leap. In the past, he would have been MORE angry at me with the passage of time, as he would spend that time bolstering all the errors of my ways in his own mind. What is more, I am starting to feel, just a little bit, like HE is working on the relationship. After wondering, for literally years, why he stuck around when he seemed so unhappy with me, I am starting to wonder if he actually does love me and he has just been a fool to bring me to the point of walking out the door.

 

So, there have been no vicious outbursts in quite some time, and we seem to be making progress in therapy. I just might get hopeful one day.

 

I will be sure to find a moment later today to tell my husband that it meant a lot to me that he called and said what he did. Oddly, he seems to need to learn that nice behaviour earns nice behaviour in return, so I will show him how that is done.

 

The other good news is that my son actually asked to go golfing with my husband and stepson on Monday. I was very surprised and happy. Three months ago my son could hardly look at his stepfather, and now he is being quite friendly and made this great overture without being prompted. My husband was also surprised and happy. I know he loves my son.

 

We might teach an old dog a new trick here yet. Wouldn't that be something?

[dropdeadlegs]

I am so delighted to hear all that you reported!

 

I think that is all I have to say. That's strange for me, but it seems like enough!

[Sheba]

Another post to my Forum Godmother, DDL.

 

Today was another counselling session. What happened today actually started five days ago, on Friday.

 

On Friday, while the children were all with their other parents (THANKFULLY) we had a huge blow out. Actually, my husband did. I contributed little this time.

 

He seemed fine on Wednesday, was prickly Thursday, but he totally lost it on Friday. On Friday he told me that I was right, he thought about leaving all the time and that I have problems, and though its not my fault he is sick of my problems being blamed on him and he couldn't take it any more and he had had enough. I was too stunned to say much. He left the house and was gone several hours. Eventually he called to say he would return because he had "too much invested in the relationship" and that he wasn't going to pretend anymore but would continue to go to counselling.

 

Saturday morning, he did something odd. He apologized. As I said before, saying sorry has not been in his repertoire. In the past, he has generally stayed angry and even become angrier. Instead, he apologized completely, without any qualification and spent the ensuing days being very kind and loving.

 

Today, he spoke about this blow up at counselling and took total responsibility for it. He called it a "breakthrough" that he realized how wrong he had been and, for the first time, agreed that he "over-reacted" to me. He agreed with the counsellor that he seemed to be taking out on me things I had not earned. He agreed that he might be desperately afraid and that his fear came out as anger and that I did not deserve it.

 

The counsellor cried when I told her that he had apologized.

 

Such a strange day.

 

I am feeling a little less hopeful than I was at this time last week, because of what occured on Friday, but at the same time I can see progress is being made. And, happily, the children were not witness to any of this emotional drama, so they were not impacted. I might be tough enough to stick around to find out how this story ends.

[dropdeadlegs]

Sheba, thank you for continuing. I can't imagine how hard that might be.

 

I am not the only person benefiting from your posts. Your honesty is so genuine,and I am grateful for that. Many will see your words.

 

Your week went from "normal" to "weird" to "enlightening." to "skeptical." That's a lot to absorb. I don't know much about this counseling as my own was very brief.

 

My gut tells me to be skeptical, as you are, but my heart tells me to be more forgiving. I wouldn't listen to my heart if I were you. It hasn't done me well.

 

I hope this is truly a breakthrough and I think you will know within a month. Considering years, a month isn't so much more to endure, right? Not that I would ask you to endure an abusive month, but it seems to have transcended that.

 

Please keep posting, or I will give you my email address. No problem.

[luvstarved]

Sheba and DDL - yes others are benefitting from these posts. Me, at least.

 

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO going through the same thing. We had a counseling session yesterday and it was a doozy. I brought up the issue - OK so if H goes off on me, I know what to do (what I am SUPPOSED to do when I am acting appropriately) but what about when the kids are the target??? So, H knew which incidents I was referring to so he beat me to the punch and started talking about all this WILDLY OUT OF CONTROL stuff the kids were getting away with - e.g., I allowed 17 year old daughter's boyfriend to pull into driveway so she could run out and retrieve her cell phone he'd borrowed - at 10pm!!! How crazy is that? Truth was, his idiot dog started barking like mad (yes just seeing the car, he also barks madly at any passerby within sight) which woke up H and our 8 year old and if he'd stayed out of it and gone back to sleep it would have been a non-event. But HIS version was that the boyfriend came banging on the door, blah blah. Anyway when it was all done he had yelled at everyone and told the precious 8 year old (his sole biological child) that mom was from another planet and that her sisters were screwballs and morons, etc.

 

Anyway the upshot was that he kept twisting the truth to try to support his rage and I got increasingly indignant as he kept going as far as he needed to go to be "right" - first, exaggerating the incident (counselor's response: if 1/5 of your wife's story is accurate, then you were inappropriate), deflecting the blame (the kids fault), changing the subject (me drinking too much 7 years ago), self-aggrandizement (I am a model citizen and here is a list of my accomplishments) and of course...flat denial (That never happened), and a lotta "I am the victim here and I am not going to roll over and be abused" (aka "I am not the one who needs to change")

 

EYAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!! Sheba, I KNOW that I am much in the same boat as you. I have become more distant to H, and given to sarcasm, etc in my bitterness and resentment so I do realize I need to clean up my own act...

 

The counselor nearly threw the two of us out of the office. Said it hurt his hair to listen to us fight and that was not what we were there for, etc.

 

Finally he did give my H something to read that reminded me of your original post. It was just a one page thing about blame vs accountability but in the text it made some reference to "blaming your abuser". And I am like, oh that is all he needs to read. He will read this and think SEE I AM RIGHT YOU ARE THE ABUSER, which is totally ironic.

 

Anyway...not trying to make this about me and my situation just trying to share from a viewpoint of being in a similar sitch right now...

 

H was angry when we left but calmed down later. Course he ran to Mommy to give her the full report which only serves to up the stress of dealing with her!! Not to mention completely validating his point of view no matter what. He is abusive to her too but she lets it happen and pretty much set the tone for his relationships with women (first day I met her, not two minutes after the hellos, H screamed from bathroom "Ma, this toilet is not clean! It's dirty! How could you leave it like that. For God's sake, you need to come clean this toilet right now!" Her response: "oh, I'm sorry, I thought I cleaned it, but if you say it's not clean it must not be, so I'll come do it now". I was appalled and embarrassed for her, but obviously didn't grasp the greater meaning going on at the time...)

 

One thing that is staying in my mind through all of this, though. Forgetting the anger (for just a moment!!), I have a real goal of ultimately acheiving a close intimate relationship and part of my frustration comes from the fact that I am making no headway in that direction. H is in heaven as long as things are going his way and there's no conflict. I want more. I want a best friend and lover. He actually seems to AVOID that.

 

So I would like to ask how that fits into your dynamic. Bottom line, in the end, I will not be happy to just get along in a civil manner, hooray for respect and maturity but I want a confidante and lover. Have you thought about or discussed this with your H, or do you feel that you already have that, in the spaces between blowups?

 

Keep posting about your counseling and I will too if it isn't an intrusive thing to do...let me know!!

[Sheba]

DDL -

 

This has become a bit like a diary for me, but a diary that answers back - something I really appreciate.

 

I wish I were not so skeptical but I feel I must be "on guard" at all times. I know that feelings of contrition can be replaced with resentment as people do a little mental editing of history. I can't allow things to return to the way they were and I believe a lot of time will have to pass before I will feel as if the danger is gone.

 

DDL & Luvstarved, it is probably not clear from my posts, however, but I do have reasons to stick around besides the 10 years. We do have good times, interspersed throughout the bad. Repeatedly my husband has shown me he values my opinions and judgments by seeking me when he is in a moment of crisis. He tells me he finds my presence comforting, he tells me I am beautiful, he is very generous with me and my children, he can be very loving and affectionate. Like a friend, he comes to me immediately to share any good or bad thing that happens to him.

 

Others support our relationship too. My husband's sister-in-law has told me many times that my husband is happier with me that he has been in the 40 years she has known him. His children like me. The counsellor has told me that she believes I am "the woman he has looked for all of his life".

 

So, yes, I want civility and respect but, like you, I want more.

 

In my case, I have the "more" - the friend and lover - but also this dark and angry person. If the angry was gone, I would be left with a very good relationship.

 

Luvstarved - yesterday my husband agreed with the counsellor that the lack of love shown to him by his parents may have left him feeling perpetually fearful. Fear translates easily to anger. I don't know what created your husband, but I do see how the coldness and criticism my husband encountered as a little child may have invented an defensive and resentful adult.

 

Last night my husband said that he was going to keep going to the counsellor until he and I learned to solve all of our issues. He said he felt she knew what she was talking about. He sounded hopeful.

 

I feel that my story MIGHT (still hedging my bets) be a success because we have found a counsellor who really makes an impression on my husband. She elegant and ladylike and I believe that a big part of what is going on is my husband's wish to live up to her expectations.

 

Luvstarved, perhaps that is what you need? How far are you into your counselling? Perhaps you need to find a counsellor who is a person your husband would admire? A strong masculine or very feminine person? If you have been with your husband for over 8 years, you can probably guess what sort of person your husband responds to and interview counsellors with this in mind.

 

Luvstarved - your husband's outrageous behaviour about the cell phone incident is similar to the type of thing that I have been dealing with. A small offense or inconvenience becomes a huge insult to these men, who respond by unleashing a whole lot of anger that no one deserves. Sometimes I have felt as if my husband gets full of rage for no known reason and that he is just looking for a reason to explode. I must say, however, that your husband's remarks to your children and about your children would have me on the doorstep. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read dropdeadlegs' posts. Her story is very important.

 

Perhaps you need to separate but continue counselling while apart?

[luvstarved]

Hi Sheba, Thanks for response. It really does sound like you are making excellent progress and have lots of reasons to be hopeful, I hope things continue along that path for you.

 

Funny you said your husband's lack of love from parents made him fearful. I think in my H's case, it was TOO MUCH LOVE. Strangely, there was not much physical affection, his parents don't "hug" relatives, even though their own siblings (his aunts and uncles, etc) do. However, he lived with them until we were married and I realize that he was in full control of the house - never asked to do anything, always given anything he wanted. If he yelled, he was apologized to, etc. Whenever I have tried to talk about this dynamic, he sees it as putting down his parents and says that I am "just jealous". Far from it.

 

If we separate, we are done. When I get distant and he worries about the marriage, he gets more attentive, but once he feels reassured, he goes right back to neglect and rage, happily doing what he wants to do and having a "why should I?" attitude about doing anything he doesn't want to do.

 

He is very supportive about things external to "us". He listens about work, etc and always tells me that I need to make time for myself. However, if that means asking him to pitch in more, that's a different story. Do less for the teenagers. Get the teenagers to do more. He will not do ANY indoor housework, for example. I also pay all bills, do all shopping (even for my own presents), am Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and all of that. I do handling of all home improvement and repair. I help with the homework. I do the reading at night. I go to the doctor's appointments. He does the fun stuff. Going to the softball games. Going to the daddy-daughter dance. Hanging by the pool.

 

From his perspective, going from being treated like a prince - really, like royalty, to being expected to be a true partner - and with two stepkids to boot, was enormous and I realize that. On the other hand, I need a true partner.

 

What galls me the most is how he is just unable to see it from any other point of view. He thinks that his being here is all that he needs to do...and if I want more, it is because I have "emotional issues".

 

If he were able, like your husband, to acknowledge his rage instead of blaming others, and to listen to my needs instead of telling me what I think and what I need, then there would be some hope. But...it just isn't there and I am stuck with the question of whether this is better than no relationship at all. 'Cause I am 48 years old, and I don't see another big romance in my future. It was hard enough finding him.

[Sheba]

Luvstarved

 

You worry me more than I worry me.

 

Your husband seems to have been raised a tyrant. It is hard to imagine what sort of parenting philosophy would result in a child ordering their parents about at any age. Maybe he never learned how to set a limit for himself because none were ever set for him?

 

In any case, you have more to lose than this man: you have your children. And, losing them would be a bigger loss than losing even a good man.

 

If you read this thread, you will read DDL's story of loss.

 

I feel I was on the brink of a similar loss, and that I and my husband have a long way to go before I will feel safe. I don't want my marriage to end, but even more than that I want my children safe in every way.

 

Speak to your daughters, luvstarved. Assess for yourself how your husband is affecting them.

[luvstarved]

Ya know, Sheba, it isn't a real comfort to hear that my mess is bigger than your mess ! If you really want to cement that thought, check out my thread about the sexual peccadilloes!!

 

Actually, my girls are incredibly sensible and I don't think it affects them nearly as much as it could have. Of course it did - they did not get raised with a positive male role model, their own bio father was just neglectful and weird while also thinking himself to be father of the year whenever he did the least little thing for them...

 

But they are like, he's got anger issues and we don't really respect him because of it, but if he makes you happy, whatever. When he goes off or gets testy/demanding with him, they generally just ignore and take up reality with me later...it is actually rare that there is a blowup involving them, it is usually just him and me

 

Honestly,I worry more about my 8 year old because he and his parents are giving her the same power that he had, and she is starting to use it. When I am around I keep her more grounded but his mom has babysat her a lot especially during summer vacation and I can see how he must have been raised ("whatever you want", "you're the best", "you're the boss", "let me buy you something because,after all, we did enter a store", etc...) When she barks orders, it is somehow "cute"...but not to me and I don't let her do it with me. She is sensible too though in her way.

 

In the last counseling session he complained that he got angry because he felt "powerless" and "excluded" and "disrespected" as the stepfather. Why he thinks vein-popping nutties had nothing to do with creating that situation and are somehow...warranted if not helpful, well, I just don't know.

[Sheba]

Luvstarved

 

I don't really mean your situation is worse than mine. Mine is plenty bad! My children have urged me to "get help". My daughter even phoned her father, my exhusband, and told him what was going on and I had to put up with the embarrassment of his expressions of sympathy and concern for me.

 

I do worry that you seem sort of resigned to the idea that at 48 maybe you are "stuck" with your current relationship or none. I can honestly say that it has not crossed my mind that if I got rid of my husband I might end up alone.

 

I might end up alone, but it is not on the list of reasons to try to make this marriage work.

 

I would like this relationship to work because my husband's "good side" is very, very good. As good as his bad side is bad. If I can't make it work, being alone would be ok. Certainly being alone would be better than the abuse and worry and shame. I would have my kids!

 

I don't know a thing about you other than what I have read here, but from that you are obviously a bright and competent woman. I am willing to bet that you could find another man. I know several people who have found their love interests via the internet with great success. There are nice people out there, and some of them are sitting at computers hoping to meet someone like you.

 

You are not stuck with that man, luvstarved.

[luvstarved]

Hi Sheba, Thanks for the very kind words. I needed them. Feeling just very despondent today. We have a counseling appointment on Tuesday and I feel like I can't wait, but at the same time, I just want to curl up into a little ball and have someone "there, there" me, and still at the same time, I just want to take the kids, get in the car and drive very very far away.

 

I tried to talk with him yesterday. He "felt better" afterward. I didn't. He tried to talk up how he wanted what I wanted - an intimate close relationship, but again he talked about "focusing on the positive" "being himself" and trying to steer everything in the direction of basically being my fault. I told him that I became emotionally distant (and I do) for one of three reasons: he just had a nutty, I feel resentful about the lack of intimacy, and I am trying to curb my feelings for him in the face of his apparent lack of interest in me. He said at those times it was "impossible to like" me and he very seriously considered leaving me at those times. He blamed his lack of sexual interest on my failure to show him sufficient affection and opined that I am incapable of showing real affection. Which is horsecrap, frankly.

 

When we talked about sex directly, I began by saying that since he did not seem to think there was any problem, perhaps I should talk with someone separately. Rather than take any part of the ownership, he just heartily agreed.

 

He has a point lately about the emotional distance. I am so boiling over with resentment and frustration that I cannot help but feel kind of...removed and unloving toward him. But note that he is talking about me being "cordial" vs "warm". I pointed out that I had been working on trying to correct the intimacy issue for years, and had spent months at a time consciously trying to give him the "warmth" he says he needs. And nothing changed other than he had fewer nutties. So, like what, I have to keep it up for YEARS? And then MAYBE...??? At such times, I have said very flattering, loving things and he would respond with "that is very sweet of you", never any real reciprocity. But *I* lack warmth.

 

This is a man who is offended if you are balancing 12 other things and ask him to wait a minute when he asks something, or if your response is not quick enough or long enough or cheerful enough. In fact, when I told him how frustrating it was to want him sexually and not be able to have him, he was like "well that's very flattering, but we HAVE been having sex, what is the problem". Sheesh. And when I talked about my lack of satisfaction with the sex, it was "so you want me to give you oral, is that it?" Talk about not getting it!!

 

Also, as usual, I tried to sort out contradictory things he has been saying and he denied, denied, denied. I told him I had kept a journal and had written things down when they were fresh so I was sure I was not mistaken. Then that offended him, and he seemed to take that as me trying to garner "evidence" against him. I told him I was trying to understand him, not trap him. Sigh.

 

Anyway in the end he was like, I really love you and I want the same relationship you do and we just have to work on being better friends and then the rest will follow. And I accepted that for the moment and felt temporarily better. But thinking about it later:

 

He basically blamed our crappy sex life on the notion that I am not nice enough to him. He skirted and denied when it came to any effort to discuss sex in detail, and agreed (when my intention was to try to NOT blame him) that it is MY problem, not our problem. He again tried to imply that I was being negative and demanding to not appreciate what we DO have. I told him that I wish I had no sexual needs. That I could just forget it and be thrilled to have a house, a cat, a dog, a husband, 3 kids and a steady job. But that I couldn't and I would be a liar to pretend that I could.

 

As far as he was concerned, we ended on a positive note. Then comes Mother's Day. He had said he would do all the cooking and I would not have to lift a finger (except to make my famous macaroni salad). Then last night, whoops! He has a baseball game in the morning. He can't POSSIBLY get the cooking done on time!! Would I mind just...??? So I spent the morning in a mad frenzy, cooking for HIS family, rushing out to buy a present, card, etc for HIS mother while he played baseball. Then he sits there and eats like a pig, doesn't say anything like nice job, wrt leftovers: "we can just throw all this away, right?", then takes a nap. I beg off and leave early with a headache (oh because his Dad hasn't been feeling well I had to carry all the food to his folks house BY MYSELF), he calls me and tells me he's going to the gym. By the time he gets home, I am once again feeling not so warm.

 

He bought me a card and a rose bush. HE is the one into gardening so I hope he enjoys it.

 

I gave him a present, too. I probably shouldn't do this, I doubt it well help, but I could not resist. I found a pair of my very sexy black lace panties and put them in his drawer with the rest of the collection. I can't wait for him to tell me that was an emotionally disturbed thing to do. I can't decide whether I am going to use his "deny deny" tactic ("I have no idea how they got there, no I don't NO I DON'T THAT NEVER HAPPENED") or the "twist things around to be about HIS faults" ("I only put them there because YOU put some there first") or the "you have mental issues" ("most men don't prefer panties to women, you know"). As I am typing this, I KNOW that it is not going to make things better and will just cause another blowup. But things couldn't be much worse, what's one more mind game in the mix?