You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Ladyjane14]

"PS - H2T, I hate talking "about" you or your W on your thread. We might take it to PM to not change the subject too much."

 

No, go ahead. Much of what is being said resembles me and my marriage so little that it doesn't feel like you're talking about me anyway

 

But that's okay - carry on -!

 

Tell us how it really IS then, H2T.

 

I suspect what you're objecting to most is the supposition that you're a "needy" individual. But you know what? ... in comparison to some folks, you are.

 

ENs vary. Different strokes for different folks. In my own marriage, for example, my husband has a MUCH wider array of ENs than I do. He NEEDS more conversation than I do. He needs more attention. More backrubs. More sandwiches. More sex. Compared to me... he's "high maintenance".

 

Does the fact that he needs MORE mean that he shouldn't have his NEEDS met? I don't think so. It's kind of like the difference between a tropical plant and a desert plant. One needs more watering than the other. I married a "tropical", so my best bet is to keep my watering can handy! That said, it took me a long, long time to realize and accept that.

 

You've mentioned before that you're an only child. Depending on how attentive your parents were, it might be difficult for you to cope with an inattentive wife. You could be predisposed to need more "watering".

But at the end of the day... we each need what we need.

 

To be perfectly honest, I would much prefer to see you make some NOISE about all this, rather than go the divorce route. That way, you could give it a bit more time. Women can be incredibly stubborn about holding on to their mindset regarding sex and affection. There's almost a social hypnosis in place that seems to prevent them from grasping the emotional importance of a healthy sex life within the marriage. And unfortunately, you've inadvertently reinforced that hypnosis through your affairs.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that Silk and I are on the same page with this. We're both enjoying recovered marriages and we both SEE our own former hypnosis for what it was. So yeah... "Yell it at me, scream it at me, draw me a map, send up smoke signals, whatever it takes to help me see the light. I am blind, but I don't KNOW it."

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, please explain your issues. Are you looking solely for an ear to listen to your point of view or do you honestly want other opinions thus potentially some help towards either fixing your marriage or taking the step to get free?

 

As you are aware, each poster will give you a different perspective. I'm of the belief that once a cheater, always a cheater, because it's the easy way out for someone to get a fix, without having the responsibility upholding their portion of the relationship. It's far easier to control your environment by not telling your wife and at the same time getting your neediness addressed through a third party who will always stroke your ego for fear of losing you. I also believe that most people who stray want to use the children as the excuse to stay. While I believe they love their children and want to have continuous contact with them, it's solely for their own needs, instead of honest concern for the needs of the children.

[Hard2Think]

LadyJane,

 

Actually I awasn't referring to that comment in particular. It was prompted more by the assumptions that people made such as me being a controlling individual who hates the fact that his wife does something outside of the house and has her own friends, or that she went with my daughter to New Orleans so they could both participate in drug-filled orgies - well you get the idea.

 

I don't even want to take the time to address those because they're so plain outlandish.

 

As to me being needy, I didn't think that was over the top at all. I thought about that for awhile, but I have to say - I just don't see myself as being that needy at all. You mentioned the fact that your husband needs "more" backrubs, which made me laugh because I don't get ANY. I really have gotten used to very little in this relationship, but quick sex once 2 or three times a fiscal quarter just doesn't cut it for me. I don't think that makes me especially high maintenance. It would take surprisingly little to keep me happy.

 

I've already told you all how it is. But when I have, I think many people reacted with suspicion because it all seemed so one-sided. I seemed to paint myself in such a favorable light and my wife in such an unfavorable one, that I must be trolling.

 

But let me illustrate some anectodes to better explain:

 

My wife works on Sundays and some Saturdays, but gets back at about 2:00 PM most days. Because she teaches fitness, she eats very little until she gets home. When she does, I have ready for her every time a full brunch with 4 eggs, turkey bacon, onions, peppers, home-made salsa and of course whole wheat toast, coffee, and fresh squeezed OJ. Why do I do it? Because I love her, and I know she enjoys it.

 

I cannot for the life of me remember when she's ever made a meal just for me - and I'm going back years. There were several nights I came home to find that everyone already ate because they were so hungry and there's nothing left for me. It's not like I come home later than 6 PM very often, either. I complained about that and so she started with the tired face and saying "ok do I have to make you something now?". So I decided to stop complaining. I don't need to feel that indebted to anyone for my food. So a couple of times I just walked right out the door and got something to eat outside. Oh and I cook 2 dinners a week on average and we eat out 2-3 times a week on average. Just so nobody gets the idea I'm making her sweat over a stove all day.

 

If I ever ask for a backrub, I have a 25% chance of getting one. The other 75% - she's too tired. And the times that she does give me one, she groans, rolls her eyes and I get a 45 second effort. So I ask no more. I'll do without. That despite the many long, deep-tissue back, neck, and foot rubs I've given her. Of course that sounds like I'm making this up, right?

 

As for her work, I'm the one who designed and set up her website. I got her the computers, the software, and all the tools she needs to do what she does. I've taken countless late-night trips to the 24-hr Kinkos to get her posters printed and whatnot. I regularly burn 20 CD's a week for her music repertoire she uses for her aerobics classes. And I print her envlopes, format her Publisher documents and spice it up with graphics for her. I stopped burning her CD's one day when she started yelling at me that it was taking too long. She was being sarcastic, abusive, and insulting. She wouldn't let up, so I just handed them to her and told her "You have a burner - you do it." Of course you must be thinking I did something to provoke this, right? I mean nobody would give their husbands a hard time while they're doing them a favor, right?

 

The needs situation reminds me of a joke my dad told me once :

 

---------------------

A man walks by a beggar with a cup of pencils on the way to work. It says, "Pencils, 25 cents".

 

The man drops a quarter in the hat but doesn't take the pencil. This goes on every day. The man keeps putting a quarter in the hat and never takes the pencil.

 

About 6 months later, the man puts in the quarter in the hat and starts walking on. The beggar yells to the man "Hey mister!"

 

The man stops and replies "Yes ..?"

 

"Pencils are 35 cents now!" the beggar says

--------------

 

Basically her actions just say to me that she doesn't care for me enough to put me very high on her list of priorities. I don't mean because I'm especially needy, I don't think. I just her to meet basic needs of a husband. She hasn't for a long time. I do believe I'm meeting hers unless she finally tells me otherwise.

 

I'll grant you that having an affair was not the solution, but it was not the cause of outr present situation. That situation existed, unfortunately well before the A.

[Ladyjane14]

I cannot for the life of me remember when she's ever made a meal just for me - and I'm going back years. There were several nights I came home to find that everyone already ate because they were so hungry and there's nothing left for me. It's not like I come home later than 6 PM very often, either. I complained about that and so she started with the tired face and saying "ok do I have to make you something now?". So I decided to stop complaining. I don't need to feel that indebted to anyone for my food. So a couple of times I just walked right out the door and got something to eat outside. Oh and I cook 2 dinners a week on average and we eat out 2-3 times a week on average. Just so nobody gets the idea I'm making her sweat over a stove all day.

 

Okay, okay, okay... You had me at "she won't feed me". :lmao:

 

Truly, I think yours is such a sad story. It seems pretty obvious to me that you really DO love your wife and would choose to stay with her if she'd give you some hope. But if she's consistently so careless with your feelings... my next question is 'WHY"? What's lovable about her that keeps you in the game?

 

Look, if this is all about just staying in it for your children... I'm going to remind you that at your first posting, you had ALREADY made a determination that you would seek divorce. You were okay with it then, but you're not okay with it now. So, what's the difference between 'then' and 'now'? We'll bear in mind that you were under-the-influence of the affair addiction, but what else was at work that made it a tolerable idea at the time?

[Horse]

H2T: Man I hope you aren't the future me!... but I can see that as a possibility.

 

She works 6 days a week and you make most of the money? I say get the best lawyer you can afford, get custody of your kids and get a new life.

[whichwayisup]

wife works on Sundays and some Saturdays, but gets back at about 2:00 PM most days. Because she teaches fitness, she eats very little until she gets home. When she does, I have ready for her every time a full brunch with 4 eggs, turkey bacon, onions, peppers, home-made salsa and of course whole wheat toast, coffee, and fresh squeezed OJ. Why do I do it? Because I love her, and I know she enjoys it.

 

This is just what spouses do for eachother. It's great that you do that for her.

 

She might miss all the little things that you do for her, stuff that she takes for granted. I hope atleast she notices and says Thanks...

 

I cannot for the life of me remember when she's ever made a meal just for me - and I'm going back years. There were several nights I came home to find that everyone already ate because they were so hungry and there's nothing left for me. It's not like I come home later than 6 PM very often, either. I complained about that and so she started with the tired face and saying "ok do I have to make you something now?". So I decided to stop complaining. I don't need to feel that indebted to anyone for my food. So a couple of times I just walked right out the door and got something to eat outside. Oh and I cook 2 dinners a week on average and we eat out 2-3 times a week on average. Just so nobody gets the idea I'm making her sweat over a stove all day.

 

Reading this is incredibly sad. For so many reasons...I don't know where to start...

 

If my H works late, (which is alot) I always make sure he has a meal for when he gets home. Sometimes I'll whip together something at 10pm, knowing he'll be home in 20 mins, whether it be a BBQ burger, salad or some pasta with sauce.

 

It pisses me off that she can't go out of the way for you, and DO that little extra thing.

 

Not only that but not pick up on doing little things like bringing you a cup of coffee or tea for no reason. Or getting that back/foot rub. It's like you're NOT on her mind at all. Yet, with everything that has happened, it seems you're continually trying and she's on your mind alot....And she hasn't picked up on that. Duh! No wonder you're fed up.

 

Yeah, turn on your PM options k. I tried to PM you something earlier but it wouldn't let me...

[theapathy]

You had an affair and almost left her for the OW before OW went psycho last summer, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't your only affair. There were actually two OW, am I right?

 

You expect people to feel sorry for you, but it is her that I feel sorry for. I really do. Why? Because if I was your wife and I read what you wrote here last summer about your love for the OW, I'd never look at you the same again.

 

I'm sorry, but, the way you have demonized and dishonored this woman (BW) and justified your actions for the last year and a half on this board, it makes me wonder what she even sees in you anymore.

 

To me, it looks like she is trying to rebuild a life without you, just like you did to her. I think you are getting what you deserve, Hard2Think.

 

You didnt care when she went away on her trip on the last thread you posted. You were just glad she was gone. You didnt miss her. You didnt want her... but now you want her? Sounds like fuzzy FWS logic to me.

 

Ditto to this.

[enoughisenough]

My opinion is that she was hurt about your affairs. Who isn't? She decided that she wanted to work out, look good for her own personal self-esteem and is possibly even looking for someone else. I really know this is what I would do if I was cheated on. I would be going to the gym every day, looking my best and making my man jealous until someone better came along. I'm sorry, I don't know why you cheated in the past but it is kind of irrelevant... since you should have voiced your concerns prior to an affair and made her WELL AWARE that you were thinking about looking outside of the marriage if she didn't fulfill her end of the bargain.

GL anyways, but looks like she has became disinterested in you.

[Hard2Think]

Okay, okay, okay... You had me at "she won't feed me". :lmao:

..

 

Hey I'm glad that's so funny. Not getting fed isn't the point. I can feed my own self without anyone else's help. It's just not very nice to leave nothing of the meal for your husband and then just tell him to make a sandwich or something. I sure as hell would never do that to her. In fact I doubt too many of you here would.

 

But that's the thing, when men say they're not getting their needs met it seems as though they're being "needy" and overly demanding. Nobody would be laughing if it was a woman complaiing that she gives her 100% and her husband does nothing for her -!

 

Why have I stayed. That's a great question. Up to now it has been because I didn't want to be away from the kids. As to why I was willing to leave the kids before - I don't know that I would have succeeded in the end. Like I mentioned in another thread, I know now that I would have had a high probability of being one one those schlebs who crawls back home after a month. I think the OW knew this, and that was one of her irritations with me.

 

It's also because I love her. But I'm sure the reasons are more complex than that. Maybe I lack any self respect.

 

In any case - there has been a new development - I'll explain later when I have a few minutes later today.

[Ladyjane14]

Hey I'm glad that's so funny. Not getting fed isn't the point. I can feed my own self without anyone else's help. It's just not very nice to leave nothing of the meal for your husband and then just tell him to make a sandwich or something. I sure as hell would never do that to her. In fact I doubt too many of you here would.

 

No, I for one would not. I'm not laughing at you.. I'm giggling at my own twist on the Jerry Maguire line... "You had me at Hello". Means I'm convinced.

 

Look... I cook a meal for my family EVERY night. Going out to eat is reserved for special occasions around here, birthdays, anniversaries, and an occasional slice of pizza if we're out shopping together as a family. What's more... while I'm cooking that meal, I make sure that my husband has a plate set aside if he's not available for dinner. Sometimes he NAPS through dinner and STILL he manages to get fed. I also cook extra so he can take leftovers for lunch every day. That way he doesn't have to scrounge for nutritious food.

 

(That may sound a bit 1950's to some folks, but I assure you... he makes up for it in LAUNDRY service. )

 

But that's the thing, when men say they're not getting their needs met it seems as though they're being "needy" and overly demanding. Nobody would be laughing if it was a woman complaiing that she gives her 100% and her husband does nothing for her -!

 

This isn't about "women". This is about cheaters. And I believe that if you re-posted every bit of this WITHOUT including your history of infidelity... you'd be getting a much different response. I'm kind of disgusted by that to tell you the truth.

To suggest that a person tolerate neglect from their spouse in a consistent manner both before and after the infidelity suggests that the neglect is deserved. And it isn't. No matter WHAT the circumstances.

 

As far as "neediness" goes... we're ALL needy for certain things. The best course of action is to make an honest appraisal of what those things are, and then make sure you're sharing this information with your partner. But... don't act like you're not "needy". That would make you the ONLY person on the planet who isn't. Besides that...if you weren't needy at all, none of this would have ever happened.

 

I've told you that in many ways, my husband is MORE needy than I am... but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's got it easy every day in meeting the needs I do have. One of my more important ENs is to NOT be criticized by my partner. Assuming that I do everything right on a daily basis, that wouldn't be much of a problem. But... that's not quite how it is.

So, that leaves this poor guy finding nice supportive ways to convey his message without stepping on my toes. All in all... I reckon he'd find it easier to make me a sandwich. (!!!!)

 

Everybody's got there own hill to climb, right?

 

Why have I stayed. That's a great question. Up to now it has been because I didn't want to be away from the kids. It's also because I love her. But I'm sure the reasons are more complex than that. Maybe I lack any self respect.

 

My question is 'why' do you love her. What's special about her? What makes her "lovable"?

 

Anyway.. give us an update on your new "developments" when you can.

[NoIDidn't]

H2T

 

I feel for you. I feel completely guilty when I don't cook SOMETHING for my H. Even if we eat or order out, I feel guilty. And I am a thoroughly YOUNG woman that believes in being able to use your own hands. But I can't do that to my H.

 

I think you should make some noise too. And be prepared for any possible outcome. She doesn't see it. She can't just "get it" without having some consequences.

 

But unlike, LJ, I do think that your cheating factors in here. No one wants to put themselves out there emotionally with someone that cheated on them. And almost everyone is going to take her side on that, for a few years anyways. Now 5 years out, we'd tell her "Sh*t or get off the pot".

 

This is still fresh on her mind and obviously in the minds of those on this forum. I know that hindsight is 20/20, but if you didn't want it to figure in you should have either D'd or not cheated.

 

I feel for you. I hate that you basically handed her an excuse to continue neglecting you (cheating on her more than once, at that), though. The only thing that is likely to open her eyes is a vision of you walking out the door. And even that's not likely to work right off as you have done that before and you keep going back (for the kids). You gotta go and stay gone for a period of time longer than the last time. You gotta be willing to see this through to actually D'ing if you want change in your M.

 

I know it sounds like manipulation, but it really isn't. If you are willing to go all the way to D and make that clear to her, she might just see what and whom she is losing. Some of us women are really hard to reach, especially the ones with lots of girlfriends. The cheating just made it much harder to reach her, so its good you are not planning to do that again.

[Hard2Think]

Last Saturday, my wife came back from her work at 2 PM as usual and she was in a bad mood (again). She barged in, barking orders, pushing me away when I went to give her a kiss hello and once again placing a huge dark cloud in the house.

 

Ordinarily, I'd just get out of the way in my office or something knowing that the whole day was going to be a huge drag. But this time I just got out of the house and ran some errands. But the whole time I was gone I kept getting angrier and angrier.

 

When I got back she tried to be all sweet and went to give me a "let's forget it" hug. Ordinarily I would have gone with that. But every time, we're back to the same all bs again soon after. This time I waved her off. I've never done that before to her. She ran to the door and shut it to keep me from leaving the bedroom and wanted to know what's up.

 

I let loose and told her I was sick of that crap she's pulling all the time. I told her that if she doesn't want to have sex with me or otherwise be intimate with me, then fine - don't!. But I won't be putting up with the spoiled brat routine anymore. This also is the first time I've done that.

 

Needless to say, this led to a whole drawn out discussion. I was angry as hell the whole time and so she pulled the usual "well this marriage is a sham" routine and "if this isn't working for you, then maybe we need to separate". Basically it's her "take it or leave it" spiel. She kept saying how it seems like we have "all of these problems". I kept reminding her that it's always been only ONE problem not several - just one.

 

She then tried to get the heat off of her by bringing up the A. I guess she was thinking that was gearing up for another one. But she went on about the A and at that point I was ready to end the argument. I could see we were getting nowhere.

 

But then she asked me if I loved her and I said yes. She then asked me what it is that I wanted. I said something about her being more of a lover to me and less of a roommate. And then after awhile she interrupted me and asked me if this was about wanting more sex. I said yes. She asked if everything else was ok besides that. I said yes, pretty much.

 

For some reason that made us both laugh.

 

So we went out that night with some friends and had a great time. Things were fine yesterday - but things felt a little weird last night and this morning. Like she was forcing herself - like a forced smile. I don't want to read too much into it. But time will tell.

[jmargel]

Definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over & over expecting different results.

 

IMO she still harbors anger, upsetment, resent and disappointment in you having the affair. So she further isolates you from affection not because she is punishing you but because she is still licking her own wounds. However you stated you had the affair because of her lack of affection, love, etc..

 

She is dealing with the affair by keeping her mind occupied with everything else, thus avoiding having to deal with it. However it is coming out in other ways directed towards you, unintentionally.

 

You two really need to see a marriage counselor and be able to deal with the past and let it go. Start to work on the future together. This is one problem that you two won't be able to solve on your own.

 

The communication between you two is severly lacking, which is the foundation of any good relationship.

[Hard2Think]

Jmargel,

 

Yeah I can see that - except that she was just like this before the A. That's what pisses me off so much. If she used be be nice and loving and she turned this was since the affair, then I could understand perfectly and I wouldn't hassle her about it.

 

But I get the feeling that we're getting back to where we were before the A. What I'm living now is me back to square 1 except I'm a couple of years older now.

 

And again, marriage counseling won't happen unless she thinks there is a problem. For all I know, she may be doing what I'm doing - waiting until the youngest leaves the house so she can cut loose.

[Mz. Pixie]

And I wonder why it is that MsPixie only talks about how important sex is to a man (as in' date=' does she know what's important to a woman? - no offense, she just always harps on that like its the only thing going on in a M/R). [/quote']

 

The reason I talk about it is because it's true and it relates to H2's topic here- he's sexually unsatisfied!!!

 

In most cases sex is a man's #1 emotional need. If you don't believe me take a poll and let some of the men on this board answer.

[Ladyjane14]

Last Saturday, my wife came back from her work at 2 PM as usual and she was in a bad mood (again). She barged in, barking orders, pushing me away when I went to give her a kiss hello and once again placing a huge dark cloud in the house.

 

Ordinarily, I'd just get out of the way in my office or something knowing that the whole day was going to be a huge drag. But this time I just got out of the house and ran some errands. But the whole time I was gone I kept getting angrier and angrier.

 

When I got back she tried to be all sweet and went to give me a "let's forget it" hug. Ordinarily I would have gone with that. But every time, we're back to the same all bs again soon after. This time I waved her off. I've never done that before to her. She ran to the door and shut it to keep me from leaving the bedroom and wanted to know what's up.

 

I let loose and told her I was sick of that crap she's pulling all the time. I told her that if she doesn't want to have sex with me or otherwise be intimate with me, then fine - don't!. But I won't be putting up with the spoiled brat routine anymore. This also is the first time I've done that.

 

Needless to say, this led to a whole drawn out discussion. I was angry as hell the whole time and so she pulled the usual "well this marriage is a sham" routine and "if this isn't working for you, then maybe we need to separate". Basically it's her "take it or leave it" spiel. She kept saying how it seems like we have "all of these problems". I kept reminding her that it's always been only ONE problem not several - just one.

 

She then tried to get the heat off of her by bringing up the A. I guess she was thinking that was gearing up for another one. But she went on about the A and at that point I was ready to end the argument. I could see we were getting nowhere.

 

But then she asked me if I loved her and I said yes. She then asked me what it is that I wanted. I said something about her being more of a lover to me and less of a roommate. And then after awhile she interrupted me and asked me if this was about wanting more sex. I said yes. She asked if everything else was ok besides that. I said yes, pretty much.

 

For some reason that made us both laugh.

 

So we went out that night with some friends and had a great time. Things were fine yesterday - but things felt a little weird last night and this morning. Like she was forcing herself - like a forced smile. I don't want to read too much into it. But time will tell.

 

 

BRAVO!!! :bunny:

Good for you, H2T. Well done.

 

I know you were worried that you would be exerting pressure, but look what happened when you did. You unveiled her insecurity...."Do you love me? Are you going to cheat on me again?"

Having unveiled it, you were able to address it. This is GOOD STUFF.

 

Now, you've mentioned that you feel like her good will is a bit "forced", but please don't make assumptions about that or internalize her perceived discomfort. It could just be that she's reminding herself as she goes along. New behaviors are difficult to become accustomed to, and sometimes they don't come naturally. Often, we have to 'retrain' ourselves and it takes a bit of effort to get that done.

 

Keep the dialog open on this... but don't push too hard. Give her time to absorb the new information. It won't hurt to remind her when the subject comes up that it's not just about sex, it's about feeling emotionally intimate with your partner. If it was just about orgasms... heck, you could do that for yourself.

[LakesideDream]

H3T, I can relate to much of what you are writing, although I must admit that a man having an affair, or affairs does put a spin on the situation.

 

In my case... I did the cooking for the last 12 years of the marriage, except meatloaf, she did a great meatloaf. I had a very good income from a home business. She worked in an office outside the home (her choice, more freedom). We were not hurting for money after the kids left home. I made sure a coffee was there when she arrived home in winter, or a wine cooler, or cocktail in the summer. There was a bubble bath with a 30 plus minute massage waiting at least once a week.

 

What's all that mean...? Nothing. What was I hoping for?

 

I was starving for a little positive reinforcement. A "great job" after closing a big deal (usally 50% of her yearly income or so), a genuine (not profunctory) thank you for a special meal... you get the idea. Instead I got the usual "that's nice", when are you going to start/finish this or that project.

 

I know how you feel.

[NoIDidn't]

BRAVO!!! :bunny:

Good for you, H2T. Well done.

 

I know you were worried that you would be exerting pressure, but look what happened when you did. You unveiled her insecurity...."Do you love me? Are you going to cheat on me again?"

Having unveiled it, you were able to address it. This is GOOD STUFF.

 

 

I was going to say that!!!

 

Seriously. In my MC sessions, my H and I talked about my triggers to the whole is he going to cheat again thing. My triggers came on from things he did or him shutting down on me instead of talking to me, or even conflict of any sort as he doesn't like to argue.

 

I finally said " to h*ll with this triggering BS". It took too much from me emotionally to be worried about what he was or wasn't going to do. I spoke to him in counselling and in private about my concerns, and that was that. But I have a receptive H, I don't know if your W is ready for that yet.

 

Its good that the two of you laughed. Give her time to master what she is trying to do. In fact, tell her how you would like it done. I can give you a partial list that works wonders for putting emotional and intimate connection back into a M.

 

1. Kiss good bye and hello - nothing long and drawn out unless you want to

 

2. Greet each other after being apart with a hug and quick kiss before you discuss ANYTHING else

 

3. Make an effort to get some skin to skin time (without sex) And touch those areas that others aren't allowed to touch like the waist or the head or the thigh (they recommend this for bonding with babies and it comes naturally to most moms, but its the same for all people as I saw it online on a pick up artist website to get a woman to feel connected to you LOL)

 

4. Come up with a rule for how and when to discuss grievances. It sounds stifling, but its really liberating to have a place and time for it. That way you can avoid the whole walking in the house yelling thing if its not a life or death matter.

 

I said the same thing about my H's behavior changes when he started working on them (they seemed forced). But give her time and reward her greatly to encourage her to continue trying. Without reward from you (as in excitement, many thank yous, kisses and/or hugs), she will feel that its not worth the effort. So put away those feelings of it being forced, and force yourself to reward her. You both need to support and reward and respond to each other in this.wq

[Guest]

There aren't any martyrs or saints in a marriage. You actually do get what you give. If you don't feel loved enough or appreciated enough, look in the mirror and ask yourself how loved and appreciated you make your spouse feel. Giving is doing something without expecting anything in return. So why harp on about it if she doesn't shower you with thank you's?

 

If you TRULY feel you're giving too much and not getting enough in return, there is a simple solution --- give LESS so you won't be resentful and be tempted to do something stupid like sleep around on your spouse. Give only as much as you feel is fair so you won't feel taken advantage of when she does not express her appreciation to your satisfaction.

 

Oh, she's bringing a cloud over him, the whole day is ruined because of her. Well her whole future is ruined. She planned to spend the rest of her life with him, had kids with him, and now her marriage is in a shambles because he couldn't keep his pants on. He was going to leave her for someone else, for petes sake. How would he feel were the situation reversed? Content? Cheerful?

 

She appreciates nothing. Won't try to save the relationship. She is there, right? She is sharing the home with him and letting him father his children 24/7 -- which is more than alot of women would do in her situation. She actually sounds very depressed and no wonder. She sounds like she loves her children and wants them to have a dad 24/7 and it is a tough spot she is in now.

 

She tries to take the "heat off herself" by bringing up the affairs - hey, you don't suppose she actually feels bad about it and needs to talk about it? Ya think? Maybe she's trying to find a solution to what seems to her a hopeless situation?

 

An affair is a gift that keeps on giving. The betrayed party is left with two unenviable choices: Stay with this person who cheated you, whose very presence is a constant reminder of his infidelity and sacrifice your self respect and your dignity - but save your children from having to suffer over a divorce (you get the Wonderful Self-Sacrificing Mommy award); OR leave the person who cheated on you, gain back your self-respect and dignity, but watch your children suffer over the divorce - you get the Don't Tread on Me 90's Woman award. And please do not tell me that divorce does not affect children because it does, still many women do make that choice, because the find the alternative THAT intolerable and unbearable.

 

Anyway - it is not HER job to make YOU happy. If you aren't happy, then it's up to you to change that. It's not your job to make her happy either. Happiness comes from within yourself.

 

I agree with those people who say a separation might be order here. For both your sakes. So that she can clear her head and stop reeling from it all and see her way clear to make a decision about her marriage. So that you can figure out why you want to stay with this sullen, disagreeable, unappreciative, frigid witch (yes, that's how you paint her). Maybe it's just too damaged and it would be best for you both to move on.

 

Sorry, I do not mean to be harsh but I know that's how I'm coming across. I just so hate it when men demonize their wives for being depressed or angry they slept around on them. I still say, what did you expect? Did you think your marriage would improve if you slept around and then decided to stay with your partner?

[Hard2Think]

LJ, NID,

 

Great advice, both of you. Thanks! The perspective you gave the situation is very helpful-!

[Hard2Think]

LakesideDream,

 

Thanks! Judging by what you describe, I agree with you - you do know how I feel.

[Ladyjane14]

;)

 

Hang in there, fella.

[Karma24]

*Yawn* Good morn---

 

Oh God, not this again.

[Karma24]

Yeah they do fine in divorce. As long as you consider tatoos, nose piercings, drugs and promiscuity to be fine.

 

Right. Because you never see children who come from intact families doing this.

[Karma24]

Wow. He had an affair and almost left her with the OW and it wasn't his only affair. Now why in the world would his wife not feel so hot for his bod anymore? Please. What do people expect when they f&k around on their spouses?

 

You better watch it, you think-for-yourselfer. The others do not like this sort of rhetoric.