You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Mz. Pixie]

But getting back to the original poster for a minute... I have to say I'm REALLY disappointed in the way this guy keeps getting 'nailed to the cross' every time he posts a problem or a vent regarding his recovery process.

 

Yeah... he f*cked up. And spectacularly too. But he's done EVERYTHING we've asked of him to try to rectify that. And while there's been times when he's clearly impatient or confused in the process... he's STILL in the game.

 

There is absolutely NO REASON why he shouldn't be able to come here and ask a question, or vent off some emotion, without getting his head chewed off every time he makes a post. To be honest... I'm frankly disgusted that this keeps happening over and over and over again.

 

I'm so glad to see you post this LJ!!!!!!

 

I'm in total agreement with the above.

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't usually stop outside until dark, I then shower, and I eat afterwards.

 

By then Mrs. Moose is usually already in bed. This is a typical week for us, unless there's a function at School we need to go to.

 

 

Why does she need to go to bed so early?? I mean she can't take 30 minutes out of a day to please her husband??

 

Moose- I see this as something that's going to cause major resentment on your part eventually. Your wife doesn't work outside the home and you provide for her very well- she shouldn't have to go to bed so early EVERY night.

 

I work outside the home- and I have three children in my combined family. Since my husband works two jobs I try to do almost all of the household stuff so that he doesn't have to help me. I can't imagine being too tired to make love with my husband more than once every once in a while!!!

 

I hate to see you posting this kind of stuff because I have always thought you and Mrs. Moose had such a great marriage....and I know you're saying you do- but sexual fufillment is a big part of marriage.

[Scrivdog]

Gunny,

 

You kidding? I think she was already like this before the A. That's why he had an A! He's just an ambivalent guy, like Moose. I guess it's better to suffer the devil you know than the one you don't .. or something like that.

 

In any case, it's sickening. These same women will later lament the loss their guy and how unfair that he ran off with a younger woman when the whole time, the writing was clearly on the wall. The assume that because society gives them a free pass on sexlessness, that they're entitled to live that was an an option.

 

I think both Moose amd H2T worry too much about what others may think of them. I say have the A, and do it with conviction.

 

Moose, I have this question. If God himself were to come down and give you permission to leave your wife .. would you?

[Gunny376]

Gunny,

I think she was already like this before the A. That's why he had an A!

 

Oh no doubt ~ and that's why if it were me? I wouldn't be going ~ I'd be GONE!!!!!!!!!

Life's too freaking short!

 

My day's of just being some old gal's meal ticket and free ride through life are over! I know a guy that's on his second marriage of one year ~ and he didn't even get anniversary sex!!!!!! His wife told him he should go get him a woman on the side!

 

I know another guy that got told on his wedding day ~ "Oh NO! There won't any more of that ~ we're married now!"

[Guest]

Moose! I want to help.

 

Was your wife this way before you got married? Have you been married a very long time? Did you work through your affair(s) with her or did you just not deal with it? Affairs are like a cancer. You have to cut it out of your relationship. Understand what happend, tell her honestly why, and allow her time to grieve.

 

I think alot of long term marriages (I'm guessing that's what you are from the ages of your children) suffer from what you describe. You've grown apart. You don't connect anymore really. Been there, done that myself. We're married 24 years.

 

Here are some thoughts: Make a concerted effort to spend time together that is not sexual. Your wife needs more than an occasional hug. She needs you to spend time with her and want her company. Even if it's just a video and some popcorn together.

 

Also, how long has it been since you wined and dined her? Taken her out and made her feel like you still find her sexy despite the years? Taken her dancing? One of the advantages of having teens and older children is you can finally get out alone for awhile.

 

What about a weekend trip to a bed and breakfast? We have sex all weekend when we book one of these. No kids. No cleaning. No cooking. Dinner at a nice restaurant and a massage beforehand so you can both relax.

 

Let go of the resentment, and stop over-doing for her, Moose. Maybe you're trying to make up for the affairs by doing housework? Just a guess. Don't do so much if it makes you resentful. Just STOP doing it. If you don't feel like cleaning or cooking, plop yourself on the couch next to her. Do your 50% of the chores - no more. You may not have as clean a house as you like, etc., but so what. You will adjust.

 

Lady Jane's suggestion is VITAL: DO consider her sexual time clock and whether it is compatible with yours. I peak sexually in the afternoon, He peaks at 5 or 6 in the morning! We have both learned the lovely benefits of making love during the right time of day. Don't be afraid to ask her what time of day works best for her. She may not have ever even considered it, in which case, experiment.

 

Also.. please forgive my candor, but what about a few toys? A small not scary vibrator (we have a little bullet sized one - wow the things you can do). Some light bondage (tying the hands loosely to the bedpost, a light blindfold, taking your time to savor her. Stop if she tells you to stop and NOTHING painful. We took a "field trip" to the local sex store and bought some stuff before our last trip. A large soft feather to stroke each other with; some tasty stuff to use on each other.... Make it special. Keep your toys in a "treasure chest". My husband is a macho type. He did not like the idea of toys at first thinking his you know what was golden or something. Now, he loves little toys because I love them. Give the girl something new and different. Be her lover again.

 

Affairs destroy trust. For me, truly great sex is based on trust. Trust is the sexiest thing. If you can get her relaxed enough to trust you again, she may surprise you.

 

There's a good book for couples in a sexual rut: "101 Nights of Great Sex" by Laura Corn. She may find it exciting to pull out a page of her choice and have you do what it describes. There are pages for you to pull out as well. We tried this for a bit, but it was too soon after the infidelity and I was so resentful I couldn't get into it, but I did see the potential. I still have it... hmmm....(light bulb).

 

My point is... maybe you just need to spice things up a bit?

 

I hope this helps. I know how lonely it can be. Good luck to you.

[hotgurl]

Mrs. Moose gets up first at 6:00 to wake the kids up for School, I usually stay out of the way on purpose since there's 5 of them trying to get ready at once.

 

They leave for the bus right at 7:00, by that time, I'm already up getting my coffee and heading to the bathroom to get ready for work. Mrs. Moose is on the couch watching Good Morning America.

 

I finish getting ready, give her a kiss goodbye, we exchange, "Love you's" and "Have a good day's" and I'm on my way to the office.

 

I'm here by 8:00 and leave at 5:00 pm.

 

During that time, Mrs. Moose is home either washing clothes, or cleaning the house, taking her fru fru dog to the vet......again.....or shopping with her Mom, (who's recently retired......yeah....), or just laying around doing nothing at all. (to which she openly admits to doing, it's not an assumption).

 

The kids get home at 3:45. When I walk in, about 5:30, the first thing I usually see is the 17 year old on the computer, the girls on the video games, the youngest boy in his room watching cartoons, and Mrs. Moose on the couch.

 

I usually get tackled by the girls at the door, and they help with taking my laptop and coat to my office. Mrs. Moose greets me with a, "Hey Baby", and gives me a kiss. We hug everyday about this time for a few minutes and talk about how our days went.

 

Depending on how things went, that could take an hour or so while I change into my yard clothes. I've gotten into the habit of asking Mrs. Moose if there's anything she needs me to do before I start on the outside duties. Usually it's a no, but now and then she'd ask me to do something she'd like to see done.

 

I then go outside and work on feeding the animals, mowing, welding, changing oils, whatever needs to be done.....Mrs. Moose is usually preparing supper, or depending on what day of the week it is, she's at Church or at a Bible study. At least 2 evenings of the week is, "Fend for ourselves" night.

 

I don't usually stop outside until dark, I then shower, and I eat afterwards.

 

By then Mrs. Moose is usually already in bed. This is a typical week for us, unless there's a function at School we need to go to.

 

Saturdays we all try to sleep in, then we do something as a family. Either the nature center, lake, or just working and playing in the yard.....

 

Sunday's are a no brainer. It's Church all day and night.....then it's back to the ole' routine.

 

Sounds boring.....but I just wanted to illustrate, there is no dominance on my part anywhere in our relationship.

 

I do think that there is some truth to her physically not being healthy in that area, or like a4a mentioned, she's using this as her leverage for whatever reason......

 

Before the next person says it, WE HAVE talked about this, millions of times, it gets better for a month, then it's back to the same ole, same ole......

 

So I guess I'll take some advice, and I'll just stop my whining now.

 

I figured out your problem moose. You guys have no intamacy in your relationship. No couple time. There is not one minute in your day except the quick good bye kids in the am that you and Mrs. Mosse have any time alone as a couple.

 

it's all kids & work. I know it would be difficult for me in this situation to have a lot of passion for my BF because I wasn't connecting with him as a romantic partner during the week.

 

Maybe just 1/2 hour of convo at night after the kids go to bed. Maybe if she is so tired she could take a nap during the day so you guys can have some time together later in the evening.

[Scrivdog]

Guest,You forgot the warm bubble bath and the rose petals making a path from the kitchen to the tub.

[hotgurl]

Guest,You forgot the warm bubble bath and the rose petals making a path from the kitchen to the tub.

 

your kinda bitter. That being said I would be over the moon if my BF ever ran me a bath with rose petals.

 

ps guest moose didn't have an affair h2t did.

[Moose]

Was your wife this way before you got married?

No, she was in a back slidden party mode when we met.....we were very VERY sexual together. So much so, she was pregnant when we married.

Have you been married a very long time?

Almost 19 years.

Did you work through your affair(s) with her or did you just not deal with it?

lol.....although there have been plenty of opportunities, my honor is more important to me than a piece of tail......never had an affair, and God help me, I never will....

 

I do appreciate your suggestions though. I've used most of them already, and I try my best to spend just, "you and me", time as much as our schedules allow.

 

Reality is, we are a very busy couple. Raising all of these kids has been a challenge for us. But we've loved, and still are enjoying every minute of it.

 

Sometimes I have to remember that we were just kids when we married ourselves. I was 19 and she was 20. She was sheltered throughout her life with a family that showed absolutely no affection, and sex was a damndable sin. (of course, this was taught by her parents in regards to pre-marital sex)

 

So imagine the stress that caused her with her parents when they learned she got pregnant at 20 and unmarried??

 

My life was a hard one that I don't want to get into right now. But let's just say that from what I've learned, seen, and experienced caused me to vow never, never, never put my kids what I had to go through, and I won't.

 

I know there's no magical pill, (yet), that'll turn this around.

 

Thanks to all that have been supportive with your suggestions. Some of you have said some things that are eye opening, and are helping to see this in other ways.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm whining or complaining, and I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread.

 

I just think it's important, and pertinent to this thread to see similiar situations so people might AVOID having an affair before it's too late.

 

Mrs. Moose and I are still very happily married, and with that said, this story ain't over yet.....it may turn out great afterall.....

[Gunny376]

H2T (And Moose and the other SD ~ Sexually Deprived) maybe this will help? I dunno know?

 

Dr. Hellen's Kreidman's "How Can We Light A Fire When The Kids Are Driving Us Crazy" (of the "Light Her Fire" fame) ISBN 0-679-41575-0, Villard Book, $19.95.

 

And yea this gets into the whole "Draw-the-bath-rose-petals-while warming-a-towel, and back-rub" rub deal and more. I've read and applied the principals and it works ~ almost too well! There's not been a woman yet that it doesn't work with ~ trouble is I don't want to get married again ~ or at least not just yet.

[Ruby Tuesday]

Dont forget the romantic music playing in the background!

 

Watching every motion

In my foolish lover's game

On this endless ocean

Finally lovers know no shame

Turning and returning

To some secret place inside

Watching in slow motion

As you turn around and say

 

Take my breath away ....

[Ruby Tuesday]

Wow... what a difference a day makes! We seem to be on a whole different (albeit somewhat related) topic.

 

But getting back to the original poster for a minute... I have to say I'm REALLY disappointed in the way this guy keeps getting 'nailed to the cross' every time he posts a problem or a vent regarding his recovery process.

 

Yeah... he f*cked up. And spectacularly too. But he's done EVERYTHING we've asked of him to try to rectify that. And while there's been times when he's clearly impatient or confused in the process... he's STILL in the game.

 

There is absolutely NO REASON why he shouldn't be able to come here and ask a question, or vent off some emotion, without getting his head chewed off every time he makes a post. To be honest... I'm frankly disgusted that this keeps happening over and over and over again.

 

Anyway... on an aside to Moose. Have you tried getting a little "afternoon delight"? If she's tapping out at 9:05 every night, you might have better luck working around her sleep schedule. Also, while I understand her reticence at having the kids lurking around... that's what bedroom doors are for.

 

I mean seriously, you don't have to advertise that you're "doing it"... but I think there's something to be said for kids knowing that Mom and Dad have a close relationship and that they sometimes want to be ALONE.

 

 

Well I disagree with you LadyJane.

 

Frankly, I'm rather disgusted listening to him rag about his wife 24/7 when HE is the cheater times two. He is hardly remorseful. He was all ready to leave her for the second OW.

 

He didnt really put anything in the marriage before or after the affair, except for ending the affair, but then again it was the OW who made that decision for him, wasn't it?

 

Then later he was only too glad she was gone when she was away from him. He is narcisstic and it shows how much he only cares about himself. I doubt nailing him to the cross would effect him one little bit because he doesnt feel nothing for no one except for himself. Don't think for a minute the BW hasn't picked up on that.

 

I'm sure he felt guilty for a little while after the fact, mostly though I think because of the kids and their perception of him, but I guess that nothing is going to change him. He is still stewing in his own resentment. Blaming his wife for his own unhappiness. He hasnt changed at all since last year.

 

His focus is soley on himself and his needs. He resents his wives outside interests that don't include him. Well guess what? The world doesnt revolve around H2T.

 

It takes as long as the affair(s) went on to recover from infidelity and I think you know that. He caused alot of pain and grief for this woman and hardly takes accountablitiy for any of his wrongdoing, lies, deceptions and manipulations. Its a huge character flaw and the BW here will pick up on that about him in no time.

 

I'm hugely disappointed that all this effort is wasted on H2T. You cant change somebody that doesnt want to change. You cant change other people.

[whichwayisup]

Frankly, I'm rather disgusted listening to him rag about his wife 24/7 when HE is the cheater times two. He is hardly remorseful. He was all ready to leave her for the second OW.

 

Look, the man is reaching out and came here for help. So, ofcourse he is going to open up and speak his mind. We shouldn't be bashing him for that! GOOD for him for atleast TRYING to fix this marriage. He wants to stay married. He is sorry for his part and mistakes, and for choosing to cheat on his wife. HE is doing something to better himself and to try to get his wife to go to marriage counselling with him.

 

If you don't like what he is saying or how he is handling HIS life, then don't reply to him anymore. Bashing him and saying how sick he makes you feel, is not helping, it's a waste of time.

 

Maybe take a step back and be abit more objective...His wife isn't the one posting, H2T is! So, yes, as long as he is posting, asking for help, MANY of us are going to help him as much as we can. maybe you don't believe he's genuine in his answers, that's your choice, but I believe he is...

 

NOone is perfect, and he's admitted MANY times he is far from perfect, but he IS trying to get life back on track.

[Ruby Tuesday]

I did stop replying to him and my response was to LJ. I don't think H2T is seeking help as much as he is seeking validation, a reason to divorce and people to validate his feelings. Sorry, I dont care if you disagree with me, if I disgust LadyJane. Call it constructive critisizm if you will but I am not wrong because my answers are different from your own.

 

It is my opinion that if H2T wants to resolve his marriage he really needs to take a long hard look at himself, and he should re-read his own posts (all the way from the beginning) and see what he gets out of it.

 

I just see a really hateful man that has caused alot of pain towards his wife. He is a passive agressive, narcissistic man, bent on divorce. He is always going to choose to dump her, or dump everything on her to resolve his conflict. There is nothing to help here. Its something he is going to have to figure out for himself.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mrs. Moose and I are still very happily married, and with that said, this story ain't over yet.....it may turn out great afterall.....

Sounds like you have a great family life

 

I think it's unfortunate that your W doesn't understand that inaction impacts a marriage as much as action. In other words, she may feel that as long as what she "does" is kind, loving and positive, she is off the hook for what she "doesn't". I'm sure she probably even wonders why you are upset about it when, in her eyes, everything else is so good. It's a neat little trick for compartmentalizing those things we don't want to face.

 

Mrs. Moose greets me with a, "Hey Baby", and gives me a kiss. We hug everyday about this time for a few minutes and talk about how our days went.

 

Perfect example. Your wife would see this as a loving "action". She chooses these actions to express her feelings for you. So I think Moose, the question you have to ask her is what feeling is she expressing when she chooses "inaction" in response to your stated intimate needs?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Moose]

Actually sounds like my life with my H. Work, more work, obligations, some more work, gotta do this and that, work, and back at it in the morning.

See, we'd make a pretty lucritive team if you ask me!

Are you ever freaking spontaneous?

HOW do you be spontaneous when you've been practically everywhere and have done just about everything?

 

If you mean do I try to break this boring cycle? Hellzya I do. I draw a 1% bonus every 3 months just so we can go and play. I throw in my ideas about what I'd like to do, (just her and I), but it always seems that she'll lobby for the kids to go with, or one or two that haven't gotten to do anything lately, or sometimes we'll just donate to people we know who are struggling.

Do you have it in you to send the kids away for a weekend and surprise her?

You know I do.....what a silly question....I'm all for that!

Skip church, skip the nature trip with the family..... you seem to lack an intimate life with your wife.

Skip Church???? Are you crazy!!! She'd rather throw herself under a bus....

 

In my best Clinton voice, "Describe the meaning of the word, "intimate"...."

 

Intimate to Mrs. Moose is spending a few hours watching the tube together on the couch.....sometimes she'll even lay on my lap.....lol

[Moose]

Sounds like you have a great family life

 

I think it's unfortunate that your W doesn't understand that inaction impacts a marriage as much as action. In other words, she may feel that as long as what she "does" is kind, loving and positive, she is off the hook for what she "doesn't". I'm sure she probably even wonders why you are upset about it when, in her eyes, everything else is so good. It's a neat little trick for compartmentalizing those things we don't want to face.

 

 

 

Perfect example. Your wife would see this as a loving "action". She chooses these actions to express her feelings for you. So I think Moose, the question you have to ask her is what feeling is she expressing when she chooses "inaction" in response to your stated intimate needs?

 

Mr. Lucky

THIS is actually a LOT to chew on.......thanks bunches Mr. L.....I appreciate this insight!!

[a4a]

See, we'd make a pretty lucritive team if you ask me! ;)HOW do you be spontaneous when you've been practically everywhere and have done just about everything?

 

If you mean do I try to break this boring cycle? Hellzya I do. I draw a 1% bonus every 3 months just so we can go and play. I throw in my ideas about what I'd like to do, (just her and I), but it always seems that she'll lobby for the kids to go with, or one or two that haven't gotten to do anything lately, or sometimes we'll just donate to people we know who are struggling.You know I do.....what a silly question....I'm all for that! :cool:Skip Church???? Are you crazy!!! She'd rather throw herself under a bus....

 

In my best Clinton voice, "Describe the meaning of the word, "intimate"...."

 

Intimate to Mrs. Moose is spending a few hours watching the tube together on the couch.....sometimes she'll even lay on my lap.....lol

 

Don't ask her to go..... have it all arranged..... pack a bag, throw her in the car....

 

what is more important to her church or her marriage?

[Moose]

what is more important to her church or her marriage?

Good question a4a.

 

And in all honesty, I will tell you what her exact answer to this question would be, (I've heard it a thousand times):

 

"Church is more important. God first, others second, yourself last. Put God first and all will fall into place"

 

Which is a great philosophy......however....it ain't a workin' and I'm afraid she doesn't know where to draw that very, VERY fine line between God/others....do you know what I mean?

 

This is why I'm leaning more towards her having a chemical imbalance or something......

[Ladyjane14]

I did stop replying to him and my response was to LJ.

 

Hey, WWIU knows she can answer for me anytime. GMTA, right?

 

Look, the man is reaching out and came here for help. So, ofcourse he is going to open up and speak his mind. We shouldn't be bashing him for that! GOOD for him for atleast TRYING to fix this marriage. He wants to stay married. He is sorry for his part and mistakes, and for choosing to cheat on his wife. HE is doing something to better himself and to try to get his wife to go to marriage counselling with him.

 

If you don't like what he is saying or how he is handling HIS life, then don't reply to him anymore. Bashing him and saying how sick he makes you feel, is not helping, it's a waste of time.

 

Maybe take a step back and be abit more objective...His wife isn't the one posting, H2T is! So, yes, as long as he is posting, asking for help, MANY of us are going to help him as much as we can. maybe you don't believe he's genuine in his answers, that's your choice, but I believe he is...

 

NOone is perfect, and he's admitted MANY times he is far from perfect, but he IS trying to get life back on track.

 

I wouldn't change a word.

 

You might do well to give the TOS another read, Ruby. It'll give you a better understanding of the spirit of the forums here at LS.

 

Believe me, I bite my own tongue nearly in half every day I read threads here, so I definitely understand the frustration. I refrain from comment on ALOT of threads because of it, and that fact notwithstanding... I'm STILL not always successful in consistently offering something helpful.

 

But we're not here to persecute people.

 

The fact is... unless you KNOW this guy personally, you can't vouch for his mental health, his intentions, or his state of mind. Unless you KNOW this guy... you've been judgmental and unfair to him.

[Ruby Tuesday]

You were the one saying you were "disgusted" by what you read. You are putting down others opinions and advice because they conflicted with your less than stellar views on reconcilliation.

 

I find protecting and sheltering a WS/FWS and giving him validation for his behavior disgusting. All he has ever said since day one how much he wants to divorce his wife. It was the plan all along. The OW #2 was the exit affair. He wasnt honest about OW#1, in fact, BW doesnt know there was a OW #1.

 

And you'll see that, now that he is not in the affair and he is making the pretenses of reconcilliation, it isnt working out so he can divorce and still be the good guy.

 

Let me tell you what it is like for a BS.

 

So, H2T and his wife went out and had a brilliant time together. The next few days she starts pulling back. She isn't sure about him, can't trust him with her heart to fully open up to him. It is so damn hard to GET OVER an affair. You wouldn't know that unless you were a BS.

[Impudent Oyster]

Moose and his wife have FIVE CHILDREN and he doesn't understand why she doesn't want to have sex anymore?

 

I would understand PERFECTLY well why she'd never have sex again.. Since she's so religious, I'm guessing you don't use birth control?

 

Maybe she'll come around after menopause, when the coast is clear.

[Impudent Oyster]

And you'll see that, now that he is not in the affair and he is making the pretenses of reconcilliation, it isnt working out so he can divorce and still be the good guy.

.

 

Agree. H2T cannot accept responsibility. The bad marriage is his wife's fault, the affair is his wife's fault, the OW is a "psycho" but H2T? He's just a victim. The victim of an unnattentive wife and several crazy OW. A great father and good husband who was forced to sleep with other women, and he wants everyone to love him. He has to be seen as the good guy.

 

Sorry but I took the time to read all 425 of his posts, and he's a master at deflecting blame.

[Impudent Oyster]

I notice that H2T does not address posts or posters he doesn't agree with, but enthusiastically responds to posts and posters that give him pats on the back....that is very telling, and selfish. He wants the "atta boys" and "It's not your fault, clearly your wife is a neglectful shrew, you're doing everything the right way".

 

It would be nice to acknowledge everyone who takes their time to help you (even though he doesn't see everyone's opinions as help).

[Ladyjane14]

I notice that H2T does not address posts or posters he doesn't agree with, but enthusiastically responds to posts and posters that give him pats on the back....that is very telling, and selfish. He wants the "atta boys" and "It's not your fault, clearly your wife is a neglectful shrew, you're doing everything the right way".

 

Not true. C'mon. He's taken ALOT of intense criticism from quite a few posters... me included at times.

But we're pretty far down the pike now, and quite a bit of comment that's been offered lately is no longer pertinent to the timeline. He already KNOWS that he escalated the marital problems by cheating. This is OLD NEWS. The question now is what should he do next?

 

Frankly, I can't blame him for ignoring posters who only want to attack him. Hell, that's what the "ignore user" tool is for. He'd be wise at this point to utilize it, IMO. But still, I've observed him on several occasions responding to posters that most people in his position wouldn't have bothered with.

 

It would be nice to acknowledge everyone who takes their time to help you (even though he doesn't see everyone's opinions as help).

 

It would ALSO be nice if those people honestly did want to "help" him. Sadly though, there are more than a few who don't. That's the problem.