You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Ladyjane14]

I'm beginning to suspect that with all the trouble you go through to defend this dude, you may have developed a teensy little crush. Hmmmmm?

 

It ain't bashing, baby. Those are the facts.

 

What facts? All I see here is a smarmy attempt to malign another person's character. And frankly, it says more about you than it does about me.

 

Interesting screen-name for somebody who's willing to sink to that level though.

I very much doubt that there's any celestial mystery to karma. It's just a matter of people reaping what they've already sown.

 

What you have sown here today is disrespect. If that's the kind of energy you bring to your daily life... I don't think you can be surprised if you find yourself disrespected in turn.

[Scrivdog]

I'm beginning to suspect that with all the trouble you go through to defend this dude, you may have developed a teensy little crush. Hmmmmm?

 

It ain't bashing, baby. Those are the facts.

 

 

 

She spends alot of effort helping tons of other people here. A crush? What .. are you 12 years old?

[Scrivdog]

Of course it matters. It matters A LOT.

 

You don't think it's important for H2T to understand WHY he was ready to divorce his wife, and why he claimed he couldn't live without the OW (his 2nd OW, btw, and yes, that's important too), and how, at the first sign that OW does something he doesn't like, he instantly falls out of love with her and back in love with his wife JUST LIKE THAT?

 

I think understanding that behavior is the key to his problems. I don't see how anyone can dismiss his feelings and behavior WRT the OW as not mattering.

 

 

At the first sign? Too bad that first sign was dropping a 1000 megaton nuke on him.

[Impudent Oyster]

At the first sign? Too bad that first sign was dropping a 1000 megaton nuke on him.

 

That's right, instead of massaging his ego (among other things) the OW DARED to be shown some respect from the man who lied to her (and his wife, and his first OW), a man who told her he was leaving his wife and loved her intensily.

 

I in KNOW WAY condone what she did, hey, she knew he was married when she started sleeping with him, she should've expected to be the one left out in the cold, but while I find cheating reprehensible, I find toying with people's emotions even more so. The minute she stopped being what he wanted her to be he threw her under the bus like yesterdays trash.

 

This guy is playing with people's lives like they're nothing. It's all about HIM.

[NoIDidn't]

Still no apology? I didn't mean it is NOT the same as saying "I apologize". Can't do it?

[NoIDidn't]

I agree with whomever said it was a BIG problem that when she brings up the A, he bolts.

 

You will never regain her trust if you aren't willing to talk to her about what hurts right now.

 

I also agree that there is more than ONE problem in your M. You should hear her out or you are WASTING her time.

 

And while I have a lot of respect for you LJ, truth is, you too are ignoring the big elephant in these posts. His W is not the only problem here. Her attitude is not the only problem here. She can't go forward into the future until the past is dealt with. H2T has put the A behind him because he doesn't want to acknowledge the hurt that he has caused. The OW is forgotten, so the A should be too? Not so.

 

The other posters have brought up many valid points. Just because they aren't the same ones that you are bringing up does not invalidate them. I do not know where the alcoholic parents thing came from though. If that's the case, then yeah, H2T has far more problems than this forum can fix.

 

I want to help as much as the next person, but I am not going to ignore what is plainly put before me just because it doesn't fit my diagnosis.

[whichwayisup]

You should hear her out or you are WASTING her time.

 

But the whole problem now is, his wife is NOT willing to talk, discuss or open up about ANYTHING. She has shut him out completely in every way. So, he has to take it slowly and do baby steps to get her to open up.

 

I do agree, the A shouldn't be forgotten, but neither should HIS reasons for choosing to have an affair. Something led and pushed him away, yes he chose to cheat, that was wrong, handled the wrong way definately, but i think if they can sit and talk, really talk, and listen to eachother - Other doors might open a crack to make it easier on BOTH of them. Until she's ready to deal with this, nothing will change unless he throws in the towel and gives up.

 

You gotta give him credit for sticking around, waiting. And for asking for help.

[Ladyjane14]

But the whole problem now is, his wife is NOT willing to talk, discuss or open up about ANYTHING. She has shut him out completely in every way. So, he has to take it slowly and do baby steps to get her to open up.

 

Exactly! THAT's the current problem.

 

I can appreciate what you're saying, NID, but when you combine the total posts of H2T's four threads... the count is 1,355 now. And so much of the time... we're just covering the SAME OLD GROUND over and over again.

 

Actually, I think he'd do well to change his screen-name at this point. Or to take his questions up with other members by PM. He spends more time talking about things that have been hashed, and rehashed, and rehashed again, here at LS then he does about anything else.

[Hard2Think]

Glass, Thankf for the long post! I want to just clear a few things up, though. I realize that in an effort to keep it short, I left out the details:

 

1) I have listened to her feelings about the affair non-stop since D-Day. She's free to bring it up anytime and when she does, I listen and answer any questions she may have. I never ask her to stop, nor to "get over it". I've avoided discussing my own issues with her all this time, in large part in deference to her feelings. But my impression was that she brought up the A at this time to deflect from what I was saying at that moment. She may have felt under attack and so by bringing up the A, I was being asked to put aside the issue at hand and go back to discussing the A and be on the defensive. In fact, during that discussion I told her that we can talk about the A later if she wants, but that right this minute there is something we need to discuss. Again, this is the only time in our whole marriage I ver really put the screws to her about this.

 

2) I think she gets that. In fact, that's what I was starting to tell her. But I don't want to over-dramatize the language. Yes, it's about sex and intimacy. I guess maybe I didn't want to bring up 5 things and make it all seem confusing. It basically boils down to sex. Sex=intimacy and closeness. If we can get that far, I'm willing to bet that the rest will be ok too.

 

3) Yes, I do agree. I'm trying to walk the fine line and not have her feel forced. As I mentioned before, I'd rather do without sex than have her feel forced into it. In fact, during that discussion, as I mentioned, I told her she didn't have to have sex with me if she didn't want to - I just wanted to draw the line on the abusive behavior, which existed long before and OW.

 

4) Again, I paraphrased. What she said was more that I have alot of complaints. She made it sound like I have some laundry list of issues when in fact it all boils down to one for me. But I wasn't speaking for her. I'm more than willing to hear what problems she has with me that she needs me to change.

 

5) Yeah, we've been to MC three times. She opted out. I went one more time on my own and that's been it. I've tried to encourage it, but I think she views going to MC as doing me a favor as opposed to doing it for us.

 

for some positive reinforcement on my part. I think you handled this very well. You got your feelings across and so did she. I don't think she let off steam, I think she really addressed what was wrong with her. But, here is what I noticed, and if I'm wrong tell me...

 

1.) When your wife begins elaborating on the affair, you are ready to leave. Not a good sign bro, even if you were not meaning to be hurtful, it seems like you don't care what she has to say. Are you sure that YOU'RE

not the one avoiding MC? If it is your W, then why is she? You can only go up from here.

 

2.) Your W could tell what was wrong with you- the sex. But I don't think that's it. It's not just sex; it's what you just told us. You want her to be more a lover than a roommate but sexuality is not the only thing that matters. Intimacy, compatibility and compassion too. Just make sure she gets that point as well. I also figured that if your W knew it was sex that bothered you, then why hasn't she tried to fix it before the argument? The only answer I could give is because she's afraid to invest again (I would be).

 

3.) Again, the issue of forcing. I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle. You can't force your W to do anything she doesn't want to do. Even God can't do that (at least in my Bible ). This is her decision; she wants to make you happy so she's doing it for you. It's not about her being threatened or shouldering a burden, she wants this to work out. I am sure my W would like to believe that I don't force myself to listen to her job rants everyday, but I do and I do it because I want to be attentive because I would want the same.

 

4.) If your W says she thinks we have alot of problems, you probably do. You just don't recognize them. You should not have told her it was only one; you should ask her what does she think the problems are. To list them. Again, it seems H2T that you don't care what your W says, and you should. I think your W is ready to talk...

 

5.) Did I suggest MC yet? Just making sure.

 

I'm not too sure what my xOW has to do with anything anymore - ?

 

If I had come off as bashing in my first post, I had not meant to, but we all know you do something you hadnt meant to do. This is just my opinion.

 

Have you spoken to a professional about yourselfand do you have some male friends you can talk to? I talk to some of my guys from church. I also think you should not disregard the other half of the argument from other posters about your BS/exOW.

[ThumbingMyWay]

but i think if they can sit and talk, really talk, and listen to eachother

 

 

I once heard the right way to listen.

 

 

You dont listen with you ears. You listen with your mouth. You do that by keeping it shut so your ears can hear whats being said......

[Hard2Think]

That's not true at all. Again the facts are wrong here. I've never ever bolted when she discussed the affair. Not once. If she brings it up, I let her talk. And if she wants to ask me the same old questions she's asked me 100 times already, I go ahead and answer. This is in spite of what the MC said. He asked her to set a time of 3 weeks where she could ask me everything she wants and I answer. After the 3 weeks no more questions. That was over 6 months ago. I still answer her questions .I never have asked her to get over it already nor acted offended nor exasperated at her discussions about the A.

 

I am however, starting to draw the line on using the A as a free pass for abuse. If she starts on the "you're just an scumbag after a piece of ass" crap, then I'll stop the discussion. That was fine during the first 6 months, but I don't think it's necessary anymore.

 

Yeah so alot of people grow up with alcoholic parents. Big deal. I don't think that has any bearing on my self now. I'm sure people have been through tougher childhoods than I without being dysfunctional.

 

I agree with whomever said it was a BIG problem that when she brings up the A, he bolts.

 

You will never regain her trust if you aren't willing to talk to her about what hurts right now.

 

I also agree that there is more than ONE problem in your M. You should hear her out or you are WASTING her time.

 

And while I have a lot of respect for you LJ, truth is, you too are ignoring the big elephant in these posts. His W is not the only problem here. Her attitude is not the only problem here. She can't go forward into the future until the past is dealt with. H2T has put the A behind him because he doesn't want to acknowledge the hurt that he has caused. The OW is forgotten, so the A should be too? Not so.

 

The other posters have brought up many valid points. Just because they aren't the same ones that you are bringing up does not invalidate them. I do not know where the alcoholic parents thing came from though. If that's the case, then yeah, H2T has far more problems than this forum can fix.

 

I want to help as much as the next person, but I am not going to ignore what is plainly put before me just because it doesn't fit my diagnosis.

[Moose]

I'm sure people have been through tougher childhoods than I without being dysfunctional.

I'm living proof of that.....sorry you're getting so much flack H2T......

[hotgurl]

H2T,

I think the bottom lin is that you both need to on board to fix the marriage.

Which includes getting past the affiar & working on all the problems that led up tot he affair.

 

It has only been since Sept (d day) so that's 7 months. Perhaps your wife is still unsure as to whether or not she really wants to work on the marriage.

 

But you should both be in MC or else you guys are going to be stuck in this cycle. If you wife is unwilling to help work on your marraige. Perhaps it is time you cut your losses.

 

Also I think some IC might be helpful in determining why you choose to have an affair as a coping mechanism to the problems in your marraige.

 

As one poster said if you don't address the issues within yourself you are at risk for repeating the behaviors.

 

Maybe IC would also help you decide what you want to do in the event that your wife continues to not be an active partner in your marriage.

[hotgurl]

Moose another poster brought this up a couple of pages ago.

 

If it's too personal feel free to ignore the question. But since you guys are so religious are you not using birth control?

 

That could be a huge reason why your wife isn't interested in sex. I mean if I ran the risk of getting pregnant every time I had sex. Well I wouldn't have sex.

[Hard2Think]

Not split hairs or anything, but d-day was July 31st. We're getting on 9 months now.

 

And maybe you're right. Maybe she doesn't want to work on the marriage. She didn't before the A, so she may want to even less now.

 

I think I know why I had the affair. In fact the MC even figured that one out pretty quickly. But for many reasons I would not repeat the behavior. I don't want to go through any of it again.

 

H2T,

I think the bottom lin is that you both need to on board to fix the marriage.

Which includes getting past the affiar & working on all the problems that led up tot he affair.

 

It has only been since Sept (d day) so that's 7 months. Perhaps your wife is still unsure as to whether or not she really wants to work on the marriage.

 

But you should both be in MC or else you guys are going to be stuck in this cycle. If you wife is unwilling to help work on your marraige. Perhaps it is time you cut your losses.

 

Also I think some IC might be helpful in determining why you choose to have an affair as a coping mechanism to the problems in your marraige.

 

As one poster said if you don't address the issues within yourself you are at risk for repeating the behaviors.

 

Maybe IC would also help you decide what you want to do in the event that your wife continues to not be an active partner in your marriage.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks, Moose, but it's really no problem at all.

 

.....sorry you're getting so much flack H2T......

[hotgurl]

Not split hairs or anything, but d-day was July 31st. We're getting on 9 months now.

 

And maybe you're right. Maybe she doesn't want to work on the marriage. She didn't before the A, so she may want to even less now.

 

I think I know why I had the affair. In fact the MC even figured that one out pretty quickly. But for many reasons I would not repeat the behavior. I don't want to go through any of it again.

 

sorry earlier in the post someone said Sept.

 

Do you think your wife is happy? because you aren't. I understand not wanting to leave you kids but do you want to live like this for the next

10-18 years?

 

Maybe talk to your wife. You could get seperated I wonder if the space could help. I am sorry H2T it's a sucky situation.

[NoIDidn't]

Actually, I think he'd do well to change his screen-name at this point. Or to take his questions up with other members by PM. He spends more time talking about things that have been hashed, and rehashed, and rehashed again, here at LS then he does about anything else.

 

Now THAT I can completely agree with.

[Moose]

Moose another poster brought this up a couple of pages ago.

 

If it's too personal feel free to ignore the question. But since you guys are so religious are you not using birth control?

 

That could be a huge reason why your wife isn't interested in sex. I mean if I ran the risk of getting pregnant every time I had sex. Well I wouldn't have sex.

Yes, we are on birth control. Our faith doesn't prevent us from using it.

 

Things have been a little better in our sex life, we're working it out.....slowly.....I'm learning to be more, "gentle".....

[NoIDidn't]

That's not true at all. Again the facts are wrong here. I've never ever bolted when she discussed the affair. Not once. If she brings it up, I let her talk. And if she wants to ask me the same old questions she's asked me 100 times already, I go ahead and answer. This is in spite of what the MC said. He asked her to set a time of 3 weeks where she could ask me everything she wants and I answer. After the 3 weeks no more questions. That was over 6 months ago. I still answer her questions .I never have asked her to get over it already nor acted offended nor exasperated at her discussions about the A.

 

I am however, starting to draw the line on using the A as a free pass for abuse. If she starts on the "you're just an scumbag after a piece of ass" crap, then I'll stop the discussion. That was fine during the first 6 months, but I don't think it's necessary anymore.

 

Yeah so alot of people grow up with alcoholic parents. Big deal. I don't think that has any bearing on my self now. I'm sure people have been through tougher childhoods than I without being dysfunctional.

 

I don't know why you think what the MC said was Gospel. It wasn't. You aren't M'd to the MC, so if your W wants to talk about the A it doesn't matter the time period the MC put on it. I still bring up my H's A. I have NEVER called him names about it though. If she is disrespecting you, yes, you should draw that line in the sand with her. She will NEVER get over it, but you can help her to ACCEPT it.

 

But in regards to alcoholic parents, you simply don't know how much it affects you until someone not close to it points it out to you. I am not close to you, but I know what to look for. The "big deal" is another sign. There is a lot of pain in growing up in any kind of dysfunctional family. We do all that we can to show that "we are okay". But we live by our defense mechanisms and that makes it hard for us to truly get close to another or to let them get close to us. But that conversation is for PM, if you are interested.

 

And if I am way off, I apologize (sound familiar?). I can only go by the impressions that I get and as I am not all-knowing, I can be and probably am many times WRONG. Everyone here is going based on their own personal experiences and influences. So as you are also WAY off on claiming the desenters are probably NEW BSs, they may be wrong that you are what they say you are.

[Mz. Pixie]

Very few men post here and only one woman here can even relate to your situation, which is Mz. Pixie.

 

I'm hoping that women here understand how easy it is to keep your guy if you treat him right.

 

I think this is the case in alot of marriages but not in all of them. Sometimes you're dealing with someone who is going to cheat anyway.

 

But yeah, for the most part I agree with you. Usually it's easy to keep your guy happy.