You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Hard2Think]

No, you definitely have got it. It's not all about the sex. She takes and takes from me and couldn't be bothered to return anything. I'm beginning toi think it's because she feels entitled to it.

 

And I'm finally just tired of making the effort any more. I've hit the end of the road.

 

 

 

I don't know your whole story. Really that doesn't matter. I was for many years in the same situation. My now ex was having a great time doing what she pleased when she pleased without much consideration for me and my feelings. The lack of sex might be the most prominent part of your dissatisfaction . But isn't more her total lack of care for you? She just does not think of you or your feelings. Does it seem like she just does not want to send any time with you? It seems like she doesn't have any love for you and might not have much respect either. It is said that men need sex to feel loved and woman need love to have sex.

Go talk to a Lawyer. Find out exactly what your options are. Once you have established how you stand. Now get your ducks in a row. Once you have done that give her awake up call. Let her know that you have gone to a lawyer. You are ready to file. Don't yell don't get angry. Be cool and collected and calmly tell her how you feel.

[Trialbyfire]

You've both checked out intellectually and emotionally from your marriage. Time to check out physically, as in a divorce. Your children are an excuse. Deal with it.

[VinaAmez]

And I'm finally just tired of making the effort any more. I've hit the end of the road.

 

Then do something about it.

[silktricks]

It's not that I necessarily want to avoid conflict per se. My issue is that I would view any further attempts at affection for me as being the result of her bending to my will out of fear of another outburt from me.

 

While that probably makes sense for behavioral issues, I don't know that it does in the case of love. If I went postal because she tapped out our credit cards, or if she gambled all day, then I can see where this would be effective.

 

But what am I going to do? Demand that she act happy when I come home? Demand that she enjoy sex with me?

 

As to counseling, I think that will be effective only if she decides she wants to go on her own to resolve something she recognizes as a problem. But if she is coerced into going under threat of expulsion from the house, then I suspect that the sessions will be a waste of time.

 

So bottom line is that I agree that she may behave differently if I strong-arm her, I just don't think I want sex under duress. Sorry if I seem picky

You don't seem "picky", you seem tired. Obviously you can't demand that she act happy, or that she enjoy sex. But that's not really what I was talking about. What I was talking about was making her realize that HER comfort zone is not YOUR comfort zone - change doesn't happen by talking about change, and if she doesn't know - down deep in the bones KNOW that you are unhappy - deeply irrevocably unhappy - there's no reason for lasting change. It's way easier to fall back into a known comfortable way of life.

 

Talking doesn't usually solve much, it feels like it does when it's happening, but permanent change rarely happens because it was "talked about". How many people do you know who have an ingrained habit that they talk their way out of? Doesn't work, does it? Your wife's got an ingrained habit of assuming that whatever she wants to do is OK.

 

I personally would be unleashing. But maybe TBF is right and you've both just checked out of the marriage. If that's so, then it's so. I just keep remembering all of the things you wrote last year, when you seemed so very NOT checked out. But sometimes divorce is simply the only option.

[Mz. Pixie]

But what am I going to do? Demand that she act happy when I come home? Demand that she enjoy sex with me?

 

 

This statement kinda broke my heart. My H works two jobs and sometimes comes in after I've been asleep for a couple of hours- I'm always glad to see him. Always ready to give him a kiss, even if I go back to sleep.

 

Don't you think you deserve that kind of relationship?? Or are you punishing yourself for wanting more and having the affair??

[Ladyjane14]

You don't seem "picky", you seem tired. Obviously you can't demand that she act happy, or that she enjoy sex. But that's not really what I was talking about. What I was talking about was making her realize that HER comfort zone is not YOUR comfort zone - change doesn't happen by talking about change, and if she doesn't know - down deep in the bones KNOW that you are unhappy - deeply irrevocably unhappy - there's no reason for lasting change. It's way easier to fall back into a known comfortable way of life.

 

Talking doesn't usually solve much, it feels like it does when it's happening, but permanent change rarely happens because it was "talked about". How many people do you know who have an ingrained habit that they talk their way out of? Doesn't work, does it? Your wife's got an ingrained habit of assuming that whatever she wants to do is OK.

 

I personally would be unleashing. But maybe TBF is right and you've both just checked out of the marriage. If that's so, then it's so. I just keep remembering all of the things you wrote last year, when you seemed so very NOT checked out. But sometimes divorce is simply the only option.

 

Exactly... particularly in that "Her comfort zone is not YOUR comfort zone".

 

This is the same old tired argument. Men use it for sex. Women use it for romance. "If I have to tell him/her what I need, then it's not coming from the heart and it's not valuable." {...whine, whine, whine...ad nauseum}

 

Codswallop.

Half the time the other guy is CLUELESS regarding the seriousness of their situation. THEY are already comfortable enough.

 

Better to say it until it gets HEARD. If it doesn't get heard at one decibel... then by all means, say it at another. And if it becomes apparent that it will NEVER be heard... your choice is to either keep butting your head on the same old wall or move the hell on down the pike. But if you choose to keep "butting your head", ultimately.. who's fault is that?

 

This is YOUR life. Not hers. Not your children's. YOURS.

Be responsible for it. Don't just be carried away by life's currents as if you had no will of your own. Because if you end up a victim of your own ambivalence... YOU are the only one you can blame for it.

[Scrivdog]

Yeah 'cause the fact that he told her a thousand times this wasn't working for him, and he had an affair isn't a strong enough message. I'm sure she thinks he's suddenly ok with almost no sex now .. Nah. She knows, she just takes him for a patsy.

[Ladyjane14]

Yeah 'cause the fact that he told her a thousand times this wasn't working for him, and he had an affair isn't a strong enough message. I'm sure she thinks he's suddenly ok with almost no sex now .. Nah. She knows, she just takes him for a patsy.

 

Who's fault is that then? ... his or hers?

 

Sorry, but if you stand around ALLOWING somebody to, say... kick you in the nuts repeatedly... it's kind of hard to feel sorry for ya. Doesn't it make better sense to make a choice to NOT get your nuts kicked?

 

Nobody can MAKE you into a "patsy" without your permission.

[Scrivdog]

Definitely his fault. But some people don't want to abandon their kids.

[Hard2Think]

Yeah, that has been my problem. If I knew they would be OK, I'd proceed with confidence with divorce. I've been doing some research on that to get a better idea of what to expect.

 

Definitely his fault. But some people don't want to abandon their kids.

[Hard2Think]

Yeah that's what I've essentially done. This may be tough, but that's what I'm going to have to resort to.

 

Who's fault is that then? ... his or hers?

 

Sorry, but if you stand around ALLOWING somebody to, say... kick you in the nuts repeatedly... it's kind of hard to feel sorry for ya. Doesn't it make better sense to make a choice to NOT get your nuts kicked?

 

Nobody can MAKE you into a "patsy" without your permission.

[Trialbyfire]

Definitely his fault. But some people don't want to abandon their kids.

Oh come now. Kids grow up fine if both adults are mature enough to suck it up. Don't fool yourself.

[Scrivdog]

Yeah they do fine in divorce. As long as you consider tatoos, nose piercings, drugs and promiscuity to be fine.

[Trialbyfire]

Children with mature parents do well. Children with parents that use them, don't do so well...

[Ladyjane14]

Definitely his fault. But some people don't want to abandon their kids.

 

It's not necessary for him to 'abandon his kids'. Divorce isn't equal to desertion of children unless a parent CHOOSES to make it so. There are TONS of divorced parents who raise perfectly well-adjusted children to adulthood. Don't tell me that I am emotionally defective due to my parent's divorce because I know I'm not. And hell... they didn't even do a particularly good job of it.

 

This is a chickensh*t argument if you ask me.... a defensive argument for not stepping up to the emotional plate.

 

Now, I do think it's a moral imperative to make EVERY effort possible to keep the family intact... but when you can't, you work with what you've got left.

 

IMHO, H2T and his wife have NOT made every effort. Because without counseling the marriage is doomed... and he hasn't forced counseling. There's a big white elephant in the room with them, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

[Hard2Think]

Well, here's my plan. I'm going to initiate divorce proceedings. In my state, there is a mandatory 6 month separation that has to happen before divorce is final. I will hope that she'll see that as a sufficient wake up call to go ahead and do something about it - such as go to counseling.

 

If she chooses to do nothing, then so be it. But if I force or berate her to get her to go to counseling, then she'll just do it to shut me up and then say "See - I went!".

 

 

 

It's not necessary for him to 'abandon his kids'. Divorce isn't equal to desertion of children unless a parent CHOOSES to make it so. There are TONS of divorced parents who raise perfectly well-adjusted children to adulthood. Don't tell me that I am emotionally defective due to my parent's divorce because I know I'm not. And hell... they didn't even do a particularly good job of it.

 

This is a chickensh*t argument if you ask me.... a defensive argument for not stepping up to the emotional plate.

 

Now, I do think it's a moral imperative to make EVERY effort possible to keep the family intact... but when you can't, you work with what you've got left.

 

IMHO, H2T and his wife have NOT made every effort. Because without counseling the marriage is doomed... and he hasn't forced counseling. There's a big white elephant in the room with them, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, here's my plan. I'm going to initiate divorce proceedings. In my state, there is a mandatory 6 month separation that has to happen before divorce is final. I will hope that she'll see that as a sufficient wake up call to go ahead and do something about it - such as go to counseling.

 

If she chooses to do nothing, then so be it. But if I force or berate her to get her to go to counseling, then she'll just do it to shut me up and then say "See - I went!".

 

I've got no problem with that plan, H2T. You're putting her feet to the fire and breaking the chain of ambivalent, passive/aggressive behavior.

 

You have my blessings for whatever they're worth to you.

And if it helps you any that some anonymous poster out in the world is proud of you for 'pulling on your big boy pants'... you can be welcome to that little bit of knowledge too. Keep us posted... and don't give away the farm out of guilt. You've done your best, so don't let anybody take that away from you.

 

:bunny:

[silktricks]

Yeah they do fine in divorce. As long as you consider tatoos, nose piercings, drugs and promiscuity to be fine.

 

Yeah, they do SOOO much better living in a home where their parents don't love each other, have affairs, spend money like water to try to make themselves feel good. Yup, that's a really fine solution.

 

Parents living in the same household when the marriage is a failure is no better and often times far worse then divorce. How the kids fare is dependent far more upon the examples they see. The responsibility shown by both parents. The love the parents show to the children. For example, which is the better example to give a child or teen:

 

1. Lie to get what you want and show no responsibility for your actions, always blaming the situation you're in on someone else.

 

2. Stand up and say that the situation is not workable for you, take responsibility for yourself and your happiness while showing that you care enough about both yourself and the people around you to be honest.

 

I dunno, I'd sure rather have a kid that followed path number 2.

[Ladyjane14]

Think about getting some IC. It might help you to feel a little more supported in your decision. Get super-good legal too.

[silktricks]

Well, here's my plan. I'm going to initiate divorce proceedings. In my state, there is a mandatory 6 month separation that has to happen before divorce is final. I will hope that she'll see that as a sufficient wake up call to go ahead and do something about it - such as go to counseling.

 

If she chooses to do nothing, then so be it. But if I force or berate her to get her to go to counseling, then she'll just do it to shut me up and then say "See - I went!".

Praises from me, too. It's time to "fish or cut bait" for both of you. Please, as LJ said, do keep in touch. Your children mean very much to you, that is obvious. Do what you can to keep custody. Regardless of what many seem to believe, there is no longer an automatic "Mom get's 'em", especially when the children are past the infant stage, as yours are.

[Batman7]

I'm in the same boat, unable to leave my kids, missing out on the day to day things in their lives. Just going to Disney every few months won't do. My wife had a three year affair several years ago, and has lied about it everyday, but laughs about it with her sisters. My point is, there is always someone out there who feels your pain and may have it a little worse. It sounds to me like there still may be hope if you can get your wife to talk about things at some point, and really listen to you. I would suggest total honesty about the way you feel in a loving manner As far as sex goes, I have sex with my wife about once every 3 months becasue I just don't find her attractive from an emotional stand point. She says that I'm punishing her. Now who got punished in this whole deal, me. Anyway, don't do anything drastic until you consider the consequences. Whatever you decide will have a direct impact on you children good or bad for the rest of their lives. Others may tell you something different, this is just one mans opinion. I will tell you I am not happy and focus myself in my work and kids. But for me I would feel worse without my kids in my life everyday. That's just me.

[whichwayisup]

Yeah they do fine in divorce. As long as you consider tatoos, nose piercings, drugs and promiscuity to be fine.

 

Teens do stuff like that, drinking and experimenting with drugs etc, even when they live in happy households...It's part of growing up. I do see your point, but in all honesty, if H2T and his wife do decide to call it quits, together they can still make the transition as easy as possible for their children. IT doesn't have to turn into an ugly war and screw the kids up. MANY people unfortunately get divorced, and yes, it's so unfair for the kids, but somehow people manage. With the help of therapy, family therapy, alot of love and patience.

[Trialbyfire]

If your kids are honestly a priority for you, make sure you have joint custody where you both share equal time with the kids. I have friends who have done this and their child is excelling, both in school and socially.

 

Both parents have sucked it up and remain friends for their child's sake.

[JustBreathe]

Wow. He had an affair and almost left her with the OW and it wasn't his only affair. Now why in the world would his wife not feel so hot for his bod anymore? Please. What do people expect when they f&k around on their spouses?

[Ladyjane14]

Wow. He had an affair and almost left her with the OW and it wasn't his only affair. Now why in the world would his wife not feel so hot for his bod anymore? Please. What do people expect when they f&k around on their spouses?

 

The original deficits in the marital relationship still persist. The betrayed wife has refused counseling and has made no effort to address the issues.

 

It's unreasonable to expect a WS to live in the doghouse for the rest of his life. If forgiveness isn't authentic, it's not really forgiveness, is it? And while I would agree that 'it takes as long as it takes' for a betrayed spouse to reach healing... I would NOT agree that a previous history of a partner's infidelity should be a free pass on meeting one's own marital obligations.

 

If she were making an effort... I'd be the first to encourage H2T to stay in it for as long as it takes. But as things stand, I couldn't in good conscience consign him to a life-sentence in recompense for his past indiscretions.

 

The cheater is 100% responsible for his decision to cheat, but he's only 50% responsible for the deficits in the marriage existing BEFORE the infidelity took place. It's this 50% that his wife needs to address. And she has utterly refused to do so.