You know what? I'm $@!& tired of it ..

[Mr. Lucky]

Forget it. Nobody is going to read all those posts. Besides half of the responses you got were from looney women. Very few men post here and only one woman here can even relate to your situation, which is Mz. Pixie.

 

I'm hoping that women here understand how easy it is to keep your guy if you treat him right. If these ladies would get the message, I bet divorce rates would downright plummet. But as we have all seen here, they seem almost without fail to become sexless nags.

 

The worst part is guys seem to take it as it being their fault (see Moose). So they try and are egged on by feminazis to do even more. Not only do they have to bring home the bacon, but they need to do the dishes, make dinner, and then on weekends take them out on some excursion. And maybe if all this wonderful efforts combined with the perfect alignment of the moons of Jupiter come together just right, then maybe she'll be intimate with him. But if she doesn't, the he needs to try again .. harder!

 

Very few of you come down on Moose's wife. Those that you that have were mighty weak about it. This is a woman that has a husband that gives it his all in this marriage. A good guy who sticks to his moral principles. And yet 99% of the messages he gets here point to deficiencies in his manhood, his sexual technique, his flair, his effort, etc.

 

But hardly anyone has pointed out that she's the problem. Not him. She is breaking the vows of their marriage. And I guarantee you that most men would have already been cheating. And THEN, all of the sudden, he would be a scumbag and she would be the poor, sniveling victm.

 

I'm beginning to think some women like this role. It's like the Munchausen by Proxy syndrome, which oddly enough is only perpetrated by women. They sicken their own kids so they can appear to all as a devoted mother who stays strong in such "adversity". I think some women do the same to their own marriages. They can then join the elite club of betrayed wives, and hold a badge of moral superiority over their husbands in front of everyone. This of course, has the added benefit of dispensing them of any responsibilities after that. She may not have been nice to him before, like H2T's wife, but at least now she has a good reason! She doesn't have to have sex, engage in a relationship, or even make dinner. But she does get to demand more from her husband, you know, as "reparations"

 

I hope that women will see where their runining their own marriages. The men here have offered you ladies a detailed glimpse into the mechanics of an affair. Don't blow it by losing out on the lessons the men who have posted have given you.

You know Scriv, you've become the male equivalent of Jersey Shortie, who posts endlessly that "men are lying, cheating, porno-addicted scumbags". We get it - you hate women. But I'll ask you the same question I asked her - after women, what is your second choice gender-wise for sexual partners? Unless you're ready to go Lance Bass on us, you will at some point have to move beyond anger and bitterness in your dealings with the fair sex. Otherwise, we'll be in complete agreement on one thing - they won't want to have sex with you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[whichwayisup]

WWIU, Did you not see what he has done to the women in his life, when they dont act accordingly he chooses to bail on them. In between he puts them down and destroys their minds. He is the adult child of alcolholic parents as well and he has no life skills (or coping skills) and the real help he desperately needs is beyond these messageboards.

 

Im sorry but this man is a very sick individual.

 

I love how you can make that diagnosis online.

 

Anyway, I guess you've missed parts of their marriage where his wife wanted H2T's dying father OUT of their house.

 

This isn't JUST about his affair, the problems were there waay before he chose to cheat. It takes TWO to create problems in a marriage...And it takes TWO to fix it.

 

Bottomline - Together, H2T and his wife have to come to some sort of conclusion about fixing their marriage or divorcing - Life as it is now is unfair to EVERYBODY involved.

[Ruby Tuesday]

You can laugh at me and mock what I say, it doesn't bother me. It's childish. You're just another victim of H2T. It's not too hard to manipulate a good natured person. I think it's sick. It's quite obvious to me and many others before me that this man does have serious mental problems and that his problems are far beyond the marital bedroom.

 

Yes, I read the whole story. H2T re-writes history and demonizes his wife, that fact isn't lost on me, or on her. The dad is/was an alcolholic. Theres alot you don't know about this story. I wouldn't have it in my house either, especially with kids around. I don't care what relation he was to H2T.

 

I caught him in another lie, too. It just never ends. If he really wanted help (even annonymously) then he should at least try a little harder to be honest with us. If you even bothered to read my quotes from H2T, the OW didnt come back to the house because she wanted to be with him, she came back to confront him. She said, quoting a quote, "Tell him to leave me alone."

 

It's no wonder the BW is trying to avoid his touch. To give in to him to keep him from blowing up. Instead of blaming her, consider the source.

 

All roads lead back to H2T.

[NoIDidn't]

Thanks for the support, LJ. I know what you mean. I couldn't post for two days - and I don't even recognize this thread!

 

But I always expect this to happen even before I start a thread now. It's no problem. Most of the people who get angry at me nowadays I think are BS's who still have tender wounds from what they went through and let's face it - I'm just the perfect target to go after -! I doesn't bother me. If they get any peace by using me as an effigy to all WS's, then fine ...!

 

Its really hard to try to be supportive when you give backhanded insults. Many who support you have also been BSs, so please stop with the patronizing "tender wounds" talk. If you cared about the wounds at all, you wouldn't bring it up like you are twisting a knife as it were.

[NoIDidn't]

LJ and WWIU

 

While I have been supportive in regards to giving H2T helpful commentary and advice, I don't agree with most of what you are saying to others who are simply posting their honest opinions.

 

H2T has painted a complex and conflicting picture of his W and M. I feel for him, but not in the sense that I think his W is wrong for everything. I feel for him in that he is not doing ALL that he can to rectify the problem. Venting about it only makes you angrier.

 

My last post was that he needs to support change in her. He also needs to nurture change in himself.

 

I know he is venting, but even you guys gotta know when constantly venting reveals that there is an endless supply of hot air from somewhere.

[Hard2Think]

Your facts are wrong. She said that the first time when she confronted my wife. But then, if you remember, my wife went on the planned vacation with the kids and asked me not to come. The day after they left, 2 days after D-Day, she came back knowing I was there by myself. That's when OW wanted me to come with her. I posted all of that long ago.

 

I think you're pulling quotes out of context and I'm not too sure why ..

 

 

I caught him in another lie, too. It just never ends...OW didnt come back to the house because she wanted to be with him, she came back to confront him. She said, quoting a quote, "Tell him to leave me alone."

 

[Hard2Think]

I never meant that as an insult -

 

Its really hard to try to be supportive when you give backhanded insults. Many who support you have also been BSs' date=' so please stop with the patronizing "tender wounds" talk. If you cared about the wounds at all, you wouldn't bring it up like you are twisting a knife as it were.[/quote']

[sapphire0903]

H2T,

I just wanted to tell you that I really appreciate you posting and being honest. It gives me a some insight of your situation, ......some similarites and some not to mine, but helpful none the less.

I have followed your threads, and with all the replies and thread jacking, I hope you don't stop posting.

[NoIDidn't]

I never meant that as an insult -

 

 

Well, that isn't actually an apology either -

[Ruby Tuesday]

Alright, assuming you didn't call her and break NC, tell me then, how did she know you were alone?

 

Why would you call the police on someone who loved you and wanted to be with you?

 

She's someone you knew for over a year (correct?) and someone you had been intimate with and treat her like she was a total stranger?

 

I guess I don't get it, because you said YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE WITH HER and that's what she honestly believed was true. Maybe the last time she was there, she thought you were putting on an act with the BW there. Maybe she really expected you to divorce, ummm, becuz you told her thats what you wanted and you still are saying that.

 

Your stories just don't add up my friend. Theres just so many inconsistencies it's hard to take it in all at once, but don't tell me I'm wrong. You're the messed-up FWS, not me. I think you should see a psychiatrist, get some IC before this whole thing blows up in your face.

[whichwayisup]

I still don't see how bashing H2T is actually helping him. But anyway, if that is how you want to support him, then go ahead...

 

Everyone who posts deserves advice, bottomline.

[Ruby Tuesday]

I'm not bashing him. You shouldn't tell people they can't post, everybody has a right to post, WWIU. The proper care and feeding of a WS/FWS is not so uncommon anymore but it is always this hard.

 

They have to actually WANT help, not just mouth the words. He has to be honest with imself and others, he has to set things right with his wife before he can reconcille with her. She doesnt trust him, and it's a horrible thing to be afraid of your own husband that he is setting you up all the time. I know more about this than you give me credit for. I've lived it. I've shared alot with other BW's and I'm not that ignorant, besides I'm not even talking to you. If you disagree, fine you made your point. I had some questions for H2T that I would like to hear from him, alright. Thanks.

[IpAncA]

Ruby, why are you focusing on the OW so much? The A is over.

 

This is a sad situation. Their back to the way things were before the A and either his W doesn't care or is blind. Even if the A didn't exist I'm guessing things would still be the same.

 

Things would run better if she would engage in the marriage. But that's only if she wants to. If not then she's doing the marriage no good by sticking around.

[whichwayisup]

I know. In his mind the OW doesn't exist anymore, and that's how it should be. I don't see how bringing up her is helping him now - All that was dicussed and picked apart when he first came to LS. The focus SHOULD be more in the present and future, how he can get his wife to open up more, and work on the marriage with him...

 

I do agree with one thing RT has said, his wife doesn't trust him...Until his wife is ready to trust him, and put effort in, nothing will progress in a positive way in his marriage.

 

Focussing on the OW and how all that went down really doesn't matter anymore.

 

He is trying to fix the problems that were there in marriage BEFORE the affair, and that are STILL there now.

[Ruby Tuesday]

The BW is still focused on the affair. I can guarantee that, she wouldnt say it if she wasn't still afraid and unsure as he is about reconcilliation. It's not over because she is still afraid of him, and given the statements he has made about divorce I can understand why she would not share intimacies with him.

 

It would help him (to help her) to finally realize this about his BW.

 

Stop ignoring the white elephant in the room.

 

But he is incapable of taking care of himself, let alone another person right now. The WS/FWS is in a messed up state of mind and he is still in the past as well, as he keeps repeating the past, making the same mistakes with his wife, over and over again.

 

Once a FWS can be honest again and take responsibility for the affair and make the right changes, never giving up, never bashing the BW, throwing fits and blaming her for everything.

 

Even for the AFFAIRS alone he should be trying harder to make that up to her. The pilates and the P/T job is an escape and trying to find control of the situation, her life, just so she can deal with this guy because of the fair amount of hurt she was dealt.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm not bashing him.

 

...You expect people to feel sorry for you...

 

...I think you are getting what you deserve, Hard2Think....

 

...You didnt care when she went away on her trip on the last thread you posted. You were just glad she was gone. You didnt miss her. You didnt want her...

 

...That is so arrogant. It's all about you H2T...

 

...He is hardly remorseful....

 

...He didnt really put anything in the marriage before or after the affair, except for ending the affair...

 

...Then later he was only too glad she was gone when she was away from him...

 

...He is narcisstic and it shows how much he only cares about himself...

 

...he doesnt feel nothing for no one except for himself...

 

...nothing is going to change him...

 

...He is still stewing in his own resentment. Blaming his wife for his own unhappiness...

 

...He hasnt changed at all since last year...

 

...His focus is soley on himself and his needs...

 

...I'm hugely disappointed that all this effort is wasted on H2T...

 

...I just see a really hateful man that has caused alot of pain towards his wife...

 

...He is a passive agressive, narcissistic man, bent on divorce...

 

...He is always going to choose to dump her, or dump everything on her to resolve his conflict...

 

...There is nothing to help here...

 

...he is making the pretenses of reconcilliation...

 

...H2T has found just more resaons to blame, hate and resent her for no reason...

 

...H2T has tirades and she gives in just to avoid it and then he turns it around on her too, because she isn't doing enough...

 

...You are out of your mind, hard2think...

 

...YOU ARE A FICTIONAL CHARACTER...

 

...The man is a psychopathic emotional manipulator...

 

...Did you not see what he has done to the women in his life, when they dont act accordingly he chooses to bail on them...

 

...In between he puts them down and destroys their minds...

 

...He is the adult child of alcolholic parents as well and he has no life skills (or coping skills)...

 

...Im sorry but this man is a very sick individual...

 

...It's quite obvious to me and many others before me that this man does have serious mental problems...

 

...he is incapable of taking care of himself, let alone another person...

 

 

Bashing, unfounded assumptions... it don't matter what you call it. It's still RUDE.

 

(This is why we have an "Ignore User" feature, H2T.

Don't feel bad about using it. )

[Horse]

Bottom line:

There are no martyrs or saints in marriage. You basically do get what you give.

 

I so wish that were true... Imagine a world where all you have to do is love, respect and be faithful to your spouse and they will do the same for you.

 

Nice dream.

 

If you aren't feeling loved or appreciated enough consider how loved and appreciated you make your spouse feel. If you feel you do so much for your spouse and get nothing in return, then do LESS so that way you don't feel resentful. Do only what you think is fair so you don't feel angry.

 

So... if the wife isn't working on the relationship, the husband shouldn't even try?

 

Despite the frustration I prefer to do more; to do everything that I can, rather than just sit back and watch my marriage fall apart because neither one of use are working on it.

 

If I find something that works.. Woo hoo! If I fail, I can at least move on knowing that I did my best.

 

Some of the things posted about women here have been full of hatred and loathing. I wouldn't want to sleep with a man who views women this way. I like sleeping with men who like me. Imaging sleeping with a woman who doesn't like men? It is no wonder your marriages are sexless.

 

Get well soon.

 

I think you and a few other people here have confused frustration with anger and hatred.

 

He is frustrated because he loves his wife, but feels that no matter what he does, his wife does not love him in return.

 

If he hated her, he would just leave.

[Glass]

This time I waved her off. I've never done that before to her. She ran to the door and shut it to keep me from leaving the bedroom and wanted to know what's up.

 

I let loose and told her I was sick of that crap she's pulling all the time. I told her that if she doesn't want to have sex with me or otherwise be intimate with me, then fine - don't!. But I won't be putting up with the spoiled brat routine anymore. This also is the first time I've done that.

 

Needless to say, this led to a whole drawn out discussion. I was angry as hell the whole time and so she pulled the usual "well this marriage is a sham" routine and "if this isn't working for you, then maybe we need to separate". Basically it's her "take it or leave it" spiel. She kept saying how it seems like we have "all of these problems". I kept reminding her that it's always been only ONE problem not several - just one.

 

She then tried to get the heat off of her by bringing up the A. I guess she was thinking that was gearing up for another one. But she went on about the A and at that point I was ready to end the argument. I could see we were getting nowhere.

 

But then she asked me if I loved her and I said yes. She then asked me what it is that I wanted. I said something about her being more of a lover to me and less of a roommate. And then after awhile she interrupted me and asked me if this was about wanting more sex. I said yes. She asked if everything else was ok besides that. I said yes, pretty much.

 

For some reason that made us both laugh.

 

So we went out that night with some friends and had a great time. Things were fine yesterday - but things felt a little weird last night and this morning. Like she was forcing herself - like a forced smile. I don't want to read too much into it. But time will tell.

 

for some positive reinforcement on my part. I think you handled this very well. You got your feelings across and so did she. I don't think she let off steam, I think she really addressed what was wrong with her. But, here is what I noticed, and if I'm wrong tell me...

 

1.) When your wife begins elaborating on the affair, you are ready to leave. Not a good sign bro, even if you were not meaning to be hurtful, it seems like you don't care what she has to say. Are you sure that YOU'RE

not the one avoiding MC? If it is your W, then why is she? You can only go up from here.

 

2.) Your W could tell what was wrong with you- the sex. But I don't think that's it. It's not just sex; it's what you just told us. You want her to be more a lover than a roommate but sexuality is not the only thing that matters. Intimacy, compatibility and compassion too. Just make sure she gets that point as well. I also figured that if your W knew it was sex that bothered you, then why hasn't she tried to fix it before the argument? The only answer I could give is because she's afraid to invest again (I would be).

 

3.) Again, the issue of forcing. I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle. You can't force your W to do anything she doesn't want to do. Even God can't do that (at least in my Bible ). This is her decision; she wants to make you happy so she's doing it for you. It's not about her being threatened or shouldering a burden, she wants this to work out. I am sure my W would like to believe that I don't force myself to listen to her job rants everyday, but I do and I do it because I want to be attentive because I would want the same.

 

4.) If your W says she thinks we have alot of problems, you probably do. You just don't recognize them. You should not have told her it was only one; you should ask her what does she think the problems are. To list them. Again, it seems H2T that you don't care what your W says, and you should. I think your W is ready to talk...

 

5.) Did I suggest MC yet? Just making sure.

 

If I had come off as bashing in my first post, I had not meant to, but we all know you do something you hadnt meant to do. This is just my opinion.

 

Have you spoken to a professional about yourselfand do you have some male friends you can talk to? I talk to some of my guys from church. I also think you should not disregard the other half of the argument from other posters about your BS/exOW.

[IpAncA]

Do you and your W even have converstations?

 

Reason I'm wondering is it seems like it would be hard for you to even talk to her without some sort of anger or being short tempered.

[Impudent Oyster]

Your facts are wrong. She said that the first time when she confronted my wife. But then, if you remember, my wife went on the planned vacation with the kids and asked me not to come. The day after they left, 2 days after D-Day, she came back knowing I was there by myself. That's when OW wanted me to come with her. I posted all of that long ago.

 

I think you're pulling quotes out of context and I'm not too sure why ..

H2T CAN YOU BLAME YOUR WIFE for not wanting you to come on vacation? A few days earlier you were pledging your love for another women and planning your divorce! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I would've told you a lot worse than "don't come on vacation with me"

And OW wanted you to go with her? Of course she did, didn't you tell her you loved her? Wanted to be with her forever? Wher leaving your wife for her? Or was all of this in her head? I think not, it's the same thing you posted here.

She's not a psycho, you told her just like you told us that YOU LOVED HER, you couldn't imagine living without her!

I think you lie so often and so easily you don't even know what the truth is anymore...

It doesn't matter how long ago you posted this (actually, it was less than a year ago, not long at all). You aren't a patient man, you planned to leave your wife less than a year ago and you expect her to do a 180 and turn into the perfect, loving wife so you won't go out and fall in love with someone else again?

What are you waiting for? Honestly, I think if you clued your wife into this website and she read all your posts (even those ancient one's from all of 8 months ago) she'd make your decision for you.

[Impudent Oyster]

Focussing on the OW and how all that went down really doesn't matter anymore.

.

 

Of course it matters. It matters A LOT.

 

You don't think it's important for H2T to understand WHY he was ready to divorce his wife, and why he claimed he couldn't live without the OW (his 2nd OW, btw, and yes, that's important too), and how, at the first sign that OW does something he doesn't like, he instantly falls out of love with her and back in love with his wife JUST LIKE THAT?

 

I think understanding that behavior is the key to his problems. I don't see how anyone can dismiss his feelings and behavior WRT the OW as not mattering.

[Karma24]

Bashing, unfounded assumptions... it don't matter what you call it. It's still RUDE.

 

(This is why we have an "Ignore User" feature, H2T.

Don't feel bad about using it. )

 

I'm beginning to suspect that with all the trouble you go through to defend this dude, you may have developed a teensy little crush. Hmmmmm?

 

It ain't bashing, baby. Those are the facts.

[Hard2Think]

Whoa. This thread has gone completely insane.

[Karma24]

Indeed. I can hear the circus music in the background.

 

After all, isn't this what you set out to accomplish?

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm beginning to suspect that with all the trouble you go through to defend this dude, you may have developed a teensy little crush.

Just what H2T needs, a 3rd OW...

 

Mr. Lucky