FAT: What no one is telling you.

[a4a]

Eating healthy does not cost more...... buying prepared food is expensive.

 

I can whip up a healthy meal for 2 people for $3.99

 

rice tofu and fresh veggies.....

 

stuffed portabella mushrooms for 2 $5.99

 

People are too lazy to cook and plan meals and save money. People drink way way too much soda........ which is just as bad as smoking IMHO.

 

And organic is quite different in flavor and appearance Alpha. I grow my own veggies all organic...... I have only organic eggs..... huge difference.

 

As for organic milk..... not sure what that(organic) means since the majority of cows are injected with antibiotics to fight mastitis (pus teats). I drink Soy milk.

[josie54]

my point is that the huge cost is not worth the minimal taste/health benefits. actually most studies have shown there are zero taste/health benefits to organic produce over regular.

 

The higher cost of organics is like the higher cost of a flat-screen television. When a new development first enters the market, it's going to be more expensive. The more it enters the mainstream, the more prices come down. So, the more people consume organics, the less expensive they'll be. I buy organics when I can not only for the health benefits, but also so I can support organic farmers and bring prices down across the board.

 

As to the nutritional content, I've read studies that say just the opposite: That the nutritional content of organic fruits, vegetables, and milk is higher than that of nonorganics. Statistics and d**m statistics and all that. I can't ascribe to either one because I have no way of knowing which one is true. I do know the organics taste better (because I can test that for myself). I'd rather have a locally grown organic tomato from the farmer's market--or from my own garden--than a commercially produced tomato any day.

 

However, as far as pesticides go, I do "buy into the organic/local produce 'propaganda'" because it makes sense to me. I KNOW pesticides are used in nonorganics, but not organics. I know pesticides are in the flesh of the fruit, as well as the surface (the root system picks up the liquids in the soil and takes it right into the fruit.) I just want to try to minimize my exposure to that. Quite frankly, we've been exposed to "hog manure" and similar fertilizers for thousands of years, so that doesn't bother me so much. THAT'S why we wash produce. But we've only been dealing with weird health problems for the last 75 years. Something new is going on, and I can only guess that it's chemical in nature.

 

Yes, because of modern medicine, we're living longer and better. But something is causing the higher rates of autism, cancer, and other similar health issues (I have a cousin diagnosed with lymphoma, and a friend diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer in her early 30s--no family history in either case). Something is causing the frog populations to wig out. Something is making the honey bees disappear (something like 30 percent). And no one knows what. And these are the stories I've heard on the mainstream nightly news in just the last six months--I didn't read about them on some fringe Web site.

 

So many populations are affected, suggesting something fairly widespread and subtle. No one knows what the heck it is. Pesticides are just one area of speculation. But until someone knows, I've just got to take my best guess and act accordingly. I know I'm probably getting "it" from other sources--drinking water, etc. I just do what I can.

 

And then I have to try not to think about it so much. Otherwise, I'll worry myself silly.

[Fun2BMe]

oh come on don't be so naive F2BM....stop listening to that pro-organic propaganda.

 

 

my point is that the huge cost is not worth the minimal taste/health benefits. actually most studies have shown there are zero taste/health benefits to organic produce over regular.

 

I'm not naive.I can taste and see the difference, and to me it's huge enough to the point I can't eat it. Also, check to see who funds those studies you're talking about! Also, if you have any local farmer's markets that sell real produce (I think the organic makes you see $$$ and you are losing sight of the real issue of real produce vs. mass produced/pesticide flooded/genetically engineered produce) You will easily see a big difference. I think you're just used to the variety you are eating. Yes, it will save you money so that's good, and I guess you don't know the better version to know what you are missing out on and I hope you don't get cancer.

[a4a]

There is interesting studies now available about the floral industry as well.... many are going organic.

 

google it..... the pesticide you get up your nose when you sniff a bouquet of roses....

 

pesticides and chemicals also effect the farmers and workers. Seeing how the male sperm count and quantity has dropped quite a bit in the last 30 years makes you wonder about some things as well....... google it.

 

I am going to TM that phrase if it has not been done yet "just google it"

[milvushina]

I just "googled it" and learned organic milk has to meet 4 USDA requirements: 1) the cow can't have growth hormones that up milk production 2) No antibiotics; if it gets sick it has to leave the herd for 12 months 3) No food that has been grown using pesticides and 4) the cow has to have access to an open place to graze for part of each year. (MSNBC)

 

It pointed out conventional milk basically has to meet the same standards. For example, milk from cows treated with antibiotics has to be tested and until it is antibiotic-free, can't be sold.

 

I think that we have the USDA to secure safety requirements for food. They are not going to allow pesticides and chemicals that are known to be carcinogenic. The vegetables taste different, but that does not mean they have more nutrition. What is natural is not necessarily what is best, either. Organic pesticides can be dangerous.

 

To me, the main reason to buy organic is ethical. I believe food animals should not be tortured while they are being used for food. The cows should have room to move, the chickens should not be packed like sardines. I don't like pesticides not because the trace amounts on my food hurt ME but because I think excess use hurts the environment.

 

If you buy organic stuff because you believe in holistic farming, better treatment for animals, and because it is yummier, then you are not getting taken for a ride. All wholesome food is good for you, but organic is better because it is more ethical.

[a4a]

I just "googled it" and learned organic milk has to meet 4 USDA requirements: 1) the cow can't have growth hormones that up milk production 2) No antibiotics; if it gets sick it has to leave the herd for 12 months 3) No food that has been grown using pesticides and 4) the cow has to have access to an open place to graze for part of each year. (MSNBC)

 

It pointed out conventional milk basically has to meet the same standards. For example, milk from cows treated with antibiotics has to be tested and until it is antibiotic-free, can't be sold.

I think that we have the USDA to secure safety requirements for food. They are not going to allow pesticides and chemicals that are known to be carcinogenic. The vegetables taste different, but that does not mean they have more nutrition. What is natural is not necessarily what is best, either. Organic pesticides can be dangerous.

 

To me, the main reason to buy organic is ethical. I believe food animals should not be tortured while they are being used for food. The cows should have room to move, the chickens should not be packed like sardines. I don't like pesticides not because the trace amounts on my food hurt ME but because I think excess use hurts the environment.

 

If you buy organic stuff because you believe in holistic farming, better treatment for animals, and because it is yummier, then you are not getting taken for a ride. All wholesome food is good for you, but organic is better because it is more ethical.

 

 

In bold above....... NO, that is not true.... antibiotics are found in milk their is a standard level of antibiotic allowed ppm.... do a google on LIQUAMYOCIN 200...... that may reveal some interesting info.

 

BTW I do work with dairy and beef farmers. Organic and Production. Cows are not pulled from the lines..... I am sorry but I don't have time to detail exactly how a dairy farm works - losing one cow and fielding it or selling it is not productive.

 

As for organic pasture time - that is BS. You would need to google the regulations on that subject as well. They are not getting real pasture time.

 

As for what is in your beef just google veterinary supplies for catte, cows, beef cattle, bovine...... I can order this stuff online it is not regulated.

 

You can google recent articles on USDA inspections on meat....

 

If you want clean meat buy it direct from your farmer...... you will pay more but at least you know it was not eating sawdust/chicken poo/ dead chickens while standing on a heap of poo pumped with drugs in a feedlot.

[milvushina]

If you want clean meat buy it direct from your farmer...... you will pay more but at least you know it was not eating sawdust/chicken poo/ dead chickens while standing on a heap of poo pumped with drugs in a feedlot.

 

Ewww... I would LOVE to buy direct from a farmer but I don't know how; I should look into it. Here is the url for the NBC article...just so people know I did not pull that incorrect information out of my butt

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14458802/

 

I believe you, a4a. I don't really eat beef. Maybe once a month we eat read meat. But I bet poultry and pork is probably just as bad huh?

 

You know what else I have always wondered- those whole chickens at the grocery, why are they all floppy? Why don't they get stiff with rigor mortis?

[milvushina]

As for organic pasture time - that is BS. You would need to google the regulations on that subject as well. They are not getting real pasture time.

 

Yea I did read that. The grazing time can be in a feed lot with no grass, and there is no particular minimal time period. I guess I figured even that is better than what you see in those PETA ads where they are chained in a little box laying in their own excrement.

[a4a]

Ewww... I would LOVE to buy direct from a farmer but I don't know how; I should look into it. Here is the url for the NBC article...just so people know I did not pull that incorrect information out of my butt

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14458802/

 

I believe you, a4a. I don't really eat beef. Maybe once a month we eat read meat. But I bet poultry and pork is probably just as bad huh?

 

You know what else I have always wondered- those whole chickens at the grocery, why are they all floppy? Why don't they get stiff with rigor mortis?

 

pork industry is really nasty..... cruel..... factory farming sucks for the animals and for the consumer.

[alphamale]

I think that we have the USDA to secure safety requirements for food. They are not going to allow pesticides and chemicals that are known to be carcinogenic. The vegetables taste different, but that does not mean they have more nutrition. What is natural is not necessarily what is best, either. Organic pesticides can be dangerous.

exactly! My point was that people aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables anyways so what good is organic? Organic prices are much higher and will deter people who need it from eating them. I mean organice is fine for the rich people who can afford $4 per apple but the average Joe won't be able to afford organic. So we want to keep the cost of fruits and vegetalbes down so more people will eat them, and that means non-organic.

[milvushina]

exactly! My point was that people aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables anyways so what good is organic? Organic prices are much higher and will deter people who need it from eating them. I mean organice is fine for the rich people who can afford $4 per apple but the average Joe won't be able to afford organic. So we want to keep the cost of fruits and vegetalbes down so more people will eat them, and that means non-organic.

 

But the non-organic produce is still the majority at the grocery. I do support food everyone can afford. I'm not rich and I can afford and prefer organic. It's not really as bad as $4 an apple. Then again I live in Texas so stuff is probably cheaper here in general. Also I don't spend a fortune on cigarettes and liquor anymore.

If you are arguing solely about price and nutrition then all things are equal, if you consider more factors, organic is better.

[a4a]

exactly! My point was that people aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables anyways so what good is organic? Organic prices are much higher and will deter people who need it from eating them. I mean organice is fine for the rich people who can afford $4 per apple but the average Joe won't be able to afford organic. So we want to keep the cost of fruits and vegetalbes down so more people will eat them, and that means non-organic.

 

:lmao: :lmao: trust the old USDA and FDA :lmao:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/business/ci_5683270

 

do you really think they check everything? Some dude stands around and takes milk samples out of every lot that comes to the plant? Meat inspectors?

 

I can dig up more articles without imports involved..... peanut butter..... spinach.....

 

how did this stuff get by our mighty inspection team? :lmao:

 

oh thats right because they don't want everything tested! Nor do most producers.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070417/kyodo/d8oi3pf80.html

[milvushina]

I think we have all heard that the government has a list of how many parts of any disguisting thing you can think of are allowed in food.

 

Like, so many insect parts, rodent hairs, rodent feces, etc., per x pounds of wheat or whatever, is acceptable. It's just something we have to live with. It's gross when you think about it, but at least the USDA tries to keep it down to trace amounts. It is better than no rules at all, right?

 

Just because you believe that national standards are a good thing, does not mean you blindly trust the government. I think that probably the government fights tooth and nail against any standards that help consumers against the corporations that lobby it (the government).

 

It makes me so mad! (especially that first link) It is important...we should devote more resources to inspection.

[alphamale]

I think we have all heard that the government has a list of how many parts of any disguisting thing you can think of are allowed in food.

 

Like, so many insect parts, rodent hairs, rodent feces, etc., per x pounds of wheat or whatever, is acceptable. It's just something we have to live with. It's gross when you think about it, but at least the USDA tries to keep it down to trace amounts. It is better than no rules at all, right?

Right MILVUSHINA....and those things are going to be present in both organic and regular produce or food products.

[josie54]

exactly! My point was that people aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables anyways so what good is organic? Organic prices are much higher and will deter people who need it from eating them. I mean organice is fine for the rich people who can afford $4 per apple but the average Joe won't be able to afford organic. So we want to keep the cost of fruits and vegetalbes down so more people will eat them, and that means non-organic.

 

And my point is--well, it's your point. Those who feel they can't afford to buy organics don't have to. There are plenty of nonorganic options available. And those who want the benefits organics offer, and are willing to pay the price, can purchase organics when they want to.

 

I actually think we're all making the same point, oddly enough.

[alphamale]

And my point is--well, it's your point. Those who feel they can't afford to buy organics don't have to. There are plenty of nonorganic options available. And those who want the benefits organics offer, and are willing to pay the price, can purchase organics when they want to.

Buying and consuming organic produce is just another way the "haves" seperate themselves from the "have nots". Which is find and dandy as far as i'm concerned. The fact remains that if you want to pay a lot more for something that is marginally better for you then go right ahead and waste your money.

 

Its like shampoo. The $1.29 bottle of Suave will clean your hair just as well as the $7.00 bottle of expensive stuff. But if you need to spend more to feel better about yourself then be my guest.

[allina]

Buying and consuming organic produce is just another way the "haves" seperate themselves from the "have nots". Which is find and dandy as far as i'm concerned. The fact remains that if you want to pay a lot more for something that is marginally better for you then go right ahead and waste your money.

 

Its like shampoo. The $1.29 bottle of Suave will clean your hair just as well as the $7.00 bottle of expensive stuff. But if you need to spend more to feel better about yourself then be my guest.

 

No, not all products are created equal. This goes for food products, shampoo, cars, anything.

 

And you're a man w/ short hair, no way is a $1 bottle of shampoo even close to the stuff I use. And I like quality not to feel better about myself, it's because some things are worth a few extra $, like my body.

[josie54]

Buying and consuming organic produce is just another way the "haves" seperate themselves from the "have nots". Which is find and dandy as far as i'm concerned. The fact remains that if you want to pay a lot more for something that is marginally better for you then go right ahead and waste your money.

 

Its like shampoo. The $1.29 bottle of Suave will clean your hair just as well as the $7.00 bottle of expensive stuff. But if you need to spend more to feel better about yourself then be my guest.

 

I've tried Suave shampoo and it makes me look like a poodle. From your posts, I know you don't care if I look like a poodle as long as I'm buying the least expensive product on the market, but I'd rather look human.

 

I don't know why you've turned this into a socio-economic battle. If my buying organic is causing these problems, then it doesn't stop there. How about this: I'll sell my house, my car, my good clothes, and all my possessions not intrinsically related to my physical survival. I'll buy only generic brands of all foods and goods. By your argument, I can never go to a restaurant, because well, the have-nots can't afford it, and it's only "marginally better" for me to have it. For good measure, I'll give up my current job and my college diploma, because that may separate me from the "have nots." I'll work for minimum wage. I'll give up my health insurance, so I'm more equal to those who don't have it. I'll stop giving to charity, because, well, only rich people do that. I guess I can't subscribe to cable or Internet service either, since that only makes my life "marginally better" and it separates me from the "have-nots." And so on, and so on.

 

Does that level the playing field enough for you? I'm certainly not wealthy, but by your own argument, I must be a snooty millionaire who cares about no one but myself. I must vacation on the Riviera and look down upon anyone who buys Suave shampoo.

 

I'll only buy your argument if you yourself don't spend your money on a single item outside the basic essentials. But if you do--if you have an ipod, or a laptop, or a leather jacket or Starbucks coffee or whatever it is you might purchase because you PREFER HAVING IT--then you might want to rethink your "those who buy organic just want to separate themselves from the have-nots" theory. Sometimes we purchase something because we find it important. It doesn't mean that everyone has to find it important. And I resent the implication that I'm somehow elitist because of something I find important to me.

 

I can't afford a plasma television, annual European vacations, or a renovated kitchen but I'm not going criticize those who might choose to purchase those things because they decide to spend THEIR MONEY on something they want in their lives. I may have more in the bank that some, but others have more in the bank than I do. I won't deny that economics has a part to play in obesity and general health. But what on earth do you want me to do about that, alphamale?

 

I buy what I budget for. I don't buy what I don't budget for. If that makes me an elitist "have," so be it.

[Fun2BMe]

exactly! My point was that people aren't eating enough fruits and vegetables anyways so what good is organic? Organic prices are much higher and will deter people who need it from eating them. I mean organice is fine for the rich people who can afford $4 per apple but the average Joe won't be able to afford organic. So we want to keep the cost of fruits and vegetalbes down so more people will eat them, and that means non-organic.

 

Most cities have local growers who sell their produce such as at a market held once a week, that costs no more than the sci-fi version. It depends how much you care for your health the extent you'll go to find the organic (ie real) foods.

[Fun2BMe]

And how would you all feel about eating meat from cloned animals and milk from cloned cows? The food industry is fighting to not be required to label the foods as such, the same way they got away with not being mandated to label 99% of artificial ingredients on food packages.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_sc/cloned_food

 

Alpha, what's your theory as to why more people than ever have been getting cancer in the past 50 years, including those countries that import our foods. The rate of cancer in the other "third world" countries who eat their own foods is very low as it used to be in the US in the recent past.

[Pyro]

Most cities have local growers who sell their produce such as at a market held once a week, that costs no more than the sci-fi version. It depends how much you care for your health the extent you'll go to find the organic (ie real) foods.

 

Detroit Michigan was once named the fattest city in America. The joke that went around was the fact that detroit was picked to host Superbowl 40 (XL)

 

Its common around these parts to see people not caring about what they eat, so perhaps that is why he feels how he feels about organic foods.

 

As for me, I always read the labels on stuff before I purchase it at the store, and my fastfood is limited to Subway and Jimmy Johns.

[Pink Amulet]

What is Jimmy Johns?

[Pyro]

What is Jimmy Johns?

 

http://www.jimmyjohns.com/

 

My new favorite sub.

 

It must not be global yet, but you just wait.

[Fun2BMe]

http://www.jimmyjohns.com/

 

My new favorite sub.

 

It must not be global yet, but you just wait.

 

Jimmy looks like a knockoff of Subway's Jared:confused:

[Gunny376]

A little background ~ I was raised as an only child by my paternial grandparents on a long dirt road back in the pine thickeets of Alabama.

 

They had also raised seven children through the Great Depression. We had one fireplace in a four room house, a wood burning stove, and yes for many a year and outhouse, but later added a bathroom on to the house.

 

My GM cooked everything on that wood burning stove. We raised most of our our food, raised and slaughtered a hog each year, chickens etc. We went to town once a month to buy coffee, sugar, flour, corn meal, stuff we couldn't raise on our on for one reason or the other. My GM would riase vegetables and fruits, and "can" them herself in Mason Jars.

 

When on occassion we would go to the local country store, I could have all the apples, oranges, tangerines I wanted ~ but never any candy. As a kid, I never dranked a soda. At our house you had five choices, milk, buttermilk, water, sweet tea, and coffee. The milk came from a milk cow we had on the place, which I had to get up and milk each morning. My GM made cheese, butter from the milk (or I should say ~ once I got old enough, I did)

 

I leanred how to cook ~ from scratch from my GM, who to keep me out from underfoot during the cold winter months would give me something to do and keep me busy.

 

To this day, I don't eat "sweets" ~ pies, cakes, etc, nor candy, nor drink sodas, etc. I never acquire a taste for it. I do eat a lot of vegetables both cooked and un-cooked. I'm not a vegian ~ its just that we only ate meat once or three times a week. Mostly it was vegetables and cornbread.

 

Most people these days don't know how to cook. I'm not talking about the microwave this or that, nor what comes in a can. I'm talking about cooking something from scratch. Then there's the convience foods.

 

Give me a space of about the size of an average apartment's bathroom, and I can plant a garden. (Ref: Reader's Digest book "Back To Basics") even in a city. Just need access to good water and sunshine.

 

Snack foods for me are "trail mix" and jerky that I make myself.

 

A lot of people just don't know how to shop either? I know how and can make my own yogurt ~ but I've acquired a taste for Yoplait. The six pack of individual containers of Yoplait yougurt at the local WalMart is $2.65 ~ the quart size of Yoplait is? $2.65 but you get like 5X's the amount.

 

I also get the family size pack of meat. Its like .20 a pound cheaper than the convience packaging. With a vaccumn food sealer ~ you've got a three years sheld life in the frezzer, as compared to a six month shelf life.

 

I also make my own banana chips from fresh bananas ~ although it took me a long time to find a good recipie that made them taste like the store bought brand, (I was using my food dehydrator ~ when I should have been using my counter top toaster oven ~ )