BS' (Female or Male) Some Questions

[herenow]

Often times the BS is not really in the picture, it's like she/he is almost just a ghost of sorts. I know that sounds weird but it's like when you are in that moment this person's feelings do not come into play. For me it was very different I felt tremendous guilt and disgust when the EA started and I faught it within myself for very long, and with him hence the cutting all contact with MM. but once he left and I fell hard for him, it's like she didnt exsist any more she only existed when I reminded myself that he was not 100% free yet. So in retrospect at that point I did not feel like I was doing harm TO her.

 

I think that is true. I know that the OW in my case wanted to believe that I didn't exist. In everything I read and heard in messages she left for my H before and after D-day, I was referred to as "she". Never once as his "wife". I do think she was in such denial and really wanted to believe that he loved her.

 

I have said this before, but I'm sure it's hard for an OW to accept the fact that they were used by a man who was looking for a quick fix for a problem HE has. Affairs are rarely about the OW or the wife, but they are about something missing in the MM. If the MM doesn't address his own problems, he will never be able to be honest with anyone including himself.

[herenow]

Clearly you don't know my story, but you could see it in back posts, I don't expet you to read all my posts so let me clarify things before you misunderstand what happend.

 

 

My MM was going to councelling with her when he broke it off with me (months ago) because he felt guilty about not giving the marriage a fair chance to be saved, this is what SHE told him, he knew in his heart he was not into the marriage anymmore but was plagued with guilt, so he dumped me and went back. I went NC for a month and let him do what he had to do and a month after that he came looking for me to tell me it had not worked out that no amount of councelling would save them because he was in love with me and did not want the marriage anymore, had wanted out for long. It was a mistake to go back to try to save the marraige. It was a this point that he told me everything she had asked, he told me about all the process of opening up that takes place when you are trying to save the marriage after the affair, and he opened up in everything he told a lot truths in what she wanted to know but in certian things he could not bring himself to tell her the complete truth he did not want to hurt her even more though he was trying to do what's best and follow the rules to see if he could save the marriage he could not be 100% honest if it meant hurting her even more. When he tried to save the marriage and go to councelling he broke complete contact with me, he obliged by the rules set by his W and the therapist.

he just found out later that he could not go through with trying to save the marriage.

 

So, I guess that means he is getting a divorce.

[Tomcat33]

Don't mean to sound harsh and it's not directed at you, just a general statement, but that's called "justifying your actions" for the affair. To depersonalize the betrayed spouse, like they don't exist, so one doesn't feel any guilt of what they are doing.

 

I see what you are sayng buit when he moved out and in a few months we started dating I did not feel much guilt other than the fact that I knew she was very upset because theri marriage was over. It was at that point that she was like a ghost. It was not my fault their marriage had failed and I was now dating this man. It was not my fault she was off being a workaholic and neglecting this man and now I had him. I didn't pursue him, he pursued me. Once he proved to me he was serious about starting a relationship with me and he moved out I started dating him.

[Tomcat33]

So, I guess that means he is getting a divorce.

 

I really couldn't tell you either way. We are broken up because he needed to be alone, absolutely alone due to all the arguing that was happening between us because of the divorce and I want to see advances re. the divorce and so we were just getting in too many heated arguments.

 

I know he is still living on his own but have no clue if there is any advance on that. My guess is that after the last time he tried to go back and bailed on the councelling and on the marriage after promising her he would stick it out for a few months, she wants nothing more to do with him. And I applaud her if that's true. If he did that to me I would NEVER take him back, well I would have never taken him back after the cheating period. I've been cheated on in the past and I ended it then and there. And to this day that man asks about me and how my life is going regreting his every day he cheated on me (it was a one time fling) but I never looked back. I dont care what the reason is I don't forgive and move on, sorry.

Anyway my ex MM told her he did not love her anymore many times and she was determined to win him back.

I don't get how you do win someone back after they no longer love you and stab you in the back? Why would you want to spend another day of your life trying to win THAT back?

[whichwayisup]

I don't get how you do win someone back after they no longer love you and stab you in the back? Why would you want to spend another day of your life trying to win THAT back?

 

If they have children and a long history together, then yes, I can understand why a BS would want to give their CS another chance...

 

The thing is, the same could be said about the OW/OM wanting their MM/MW back too...How many times does the MM/MW have to hurt OW/OM before THEY wake up and say enough? SO MANY on here stay and take all the crap, the hurt, the back and forth, wait and wait and wait...

[Tomcat33]

I have said this before, but I'm sure it's hard for an OW to accept the fact that they were used by a man who was looking for a quick fix for a problem HE has. Affairs are rarely about the OW or the wife, but they are about something missing in the MM. If the MM doesn't address his own problems, he will never be able to be honest with anyone including himself.

 

I agree 100% with this (not so much the used part). So many times I told him that what he needed was to refind himself within his marriage, he should rediscover his wife and her needs and they should rekindle their love for one another, but he really did not seem to want that. he would tell me it was not something he wanted to do. He would tell me the reason he had not been happy for so many years was because he realised he married out of "the next step" The way he described it was " she was a good woman, she has a good heart, is very responsible, and hard working so what if I never fell head over heels in love with her that probably doesn't exist" They drifted into a relationship rather than there being an initial strong attraction, and so the friendship lead to more. They postponed having kids because he had been feeling like he had made a mistake for years now (married 4yrs) But then he met me and he assures me he never thought he would fall in love, he never thought he would feel that passion and in love feeling until he met me. He never wanted a child from a woman before until he met me. And to him THAt is what true love should feel like!?!?

I dunnow I still think he may have been feeling temporary madness. A mid life crisis of sorts. By the way I am the same age as him in case any of you think it was one of those young girls with the older MM scenario. We,are both in our mid 30's

 

The thing is, the same could be said about the OW/OM wanting their MM/MW back too...How many times does the MM/MW have to hurt OW/OM before THEY wake up and say enough? SO MANY on here stay and take all the crap, the hurt, the back and forth, wait and wait and wait...

 

I agree. Had mine not moved out I would not have started something with him. BUT I still put up with a ton of crap, with him flip flopping back and forth. I don't know how some of the women on her do it having the MM living at home with their W's. I know how difficult it was for me dating a seperated man let alone one who still lives with his W. FORGET IT!

[serial muse]

It was not my fault their marriage had failed and I was now dating this man. It was not my fault she was off being a workaholic and neglecting this man and now I had him.

 

oh lordy. this is the sort of thing that is guaranteed to get an angry response, because it's a line of crap that the guy was feeding you. i'm sorry, i can see that you're very attached to the story he told you and i honestly don't know who he loved, whether it's either or both of you. but even if he loved you with all his heart and never wavered on that for an instant, the one thing that you really, really need to accept is that this, right here, is just his bullshyt. you don't know this to be true, except that it's how he justified his actions to you. and you bought it.

 

but please think. first, he made it sound to you like he was crystal clear about how he felt about you and her. then he dragged his feet on the divorce. clearly, things aren't so crystal clear, and clearly, you knew that on some level because you got angry with him about it, called him on it and he walked away from the fighting.

 

this is not a man who knows with a certainty that you're the love of his life and she isn't. this is a very confused, selfish man. whether you want to wait and see if he gets it together is your choice, of course, but please stop buying into his spin doctoring about what was wrong with her. why would you even believe that, except that you just plain want to? that's just not a good enough reason with a proven liar.

[Tomcat33]

oh lordy. this is the sort of thing that is guaranteed to get an angry response, because it's a line of crap that the guy was feeding you. i'm sorry, i can see that you're very attached to the story he told you and i honestly don't know who he loved, whether it's either or both of you. but even if he loved you with all his heart and never wavered on that for an instant, the one thing that you really, really need to accept is that this, right here, is just his bullshyt. you don't know this to be true, except that it's how he justified his actions to you. and you bought it.

 

but please think. first, he made it sound to you like he was crystal clear about how he felt about you and her. then he dragged his feet on the divorce. clearly, things aren't so crystal clear, and clearly, you knew that on some level because you got angry with him about it, called him on it and he walked away from the fighting.

 

this is not a man who knows with a certainty that you're the love of his life and she isn't. this is a very confused, selfish man. whether you want to wait and see if he gets it together is your choice, of course, but please stop buying into his spin doctoring about what was wrong with her. why would you even believe that, except that you just plain want to? that's just not a good enough reason with a proven liar.

 

It's not what I want to believe it's what I he told me plus what I saw. When I met this man he was always alone, every function he would attend alone. his wife would travel for business 2months at a time. I know we live in a life of modern ambitious women but c'mon what woman leaves her husband behind for a job that is not even fulfulling for her (it was not her passion but the job she was doing paid very well) to be away from the house 1-2 months at a time? Look I know that I can't judge looking from

the outside I don't REALLy know what went on there. BUT I do know that when I met him I met a man that was ALWAYS available, we were working on a project together (that's how we met) he was always avaialble always away from home and had I not known he was married due to the wedding band I would have thought he was wearing it for fun, because he did not appear married at all he had more time than most single people I know. his time was always on his own. This is why I found it easy to believe that the marriage was in trouble that he was not happy and lonely. He NEVER spoke ill words of his wife NEVER. I had to pry info out of him to asses whether he was a player or simply a man who was lonely and unhappy.

 

Im not saying he is a saint, trust me he is NOT. and yes indeed he is VERY confused but when I posted my comment earlier about not feeling guilty about having him or not feeling like "I was the reason" hios marraige deteriorated, it's because it was already a mess when I met him. All I did was give him a reason to move out. To see what he really wanted. and yeah maybe he used me to figure out what he wanted out of life but he had a chance to go back and work it out with her and he could not do it. he could not go back. There are other reasons that have to do with finances that I can't get into here, that I feel are the reason he dragged his feet about the divorce, but in my heart I feel the love for her was done. I really feel that. you don't do what he did to someone you still love. Plain and simple.

[serial muse]

tomcat, come on.

 

a - you don't know how she felt about her job, you know how he told you she felt about her job.

b - you don't know why she didn't come to functions, you know why he told you she didn't come to functions.

c - you don't know why they didn't spend more time together - how much of that was him, too? all you know was that seemed to be always alone - and then, after you pried it out of him (to determine whether he was playing you or not) he told you something that made an affair sound reasonable to you. think about that, please. it sounds like you have strong opinions about how a relationship should be and what his wife's responsibility was there, and that was probably fairly easy for him to read.

 

and yes, he did speak ill of her. what you've just said is proof of that. he was just very sly about it, but it's possible to passive-aggressively accuse someone of neglect without coming out and saying, "she's a bytch". all you have to do is say, "she's a strong woman and she's never home." yes, that is an implied accusation.

 

i'm certainly not saying his marriage's demise is all your fault! i'm saying it's really not all hers, and your comment unfortunately sounds rather a lot like repeating verbatim what he might have said about why it all fell apart. and it rings false.

 

like i said, i'm not accusing you of breaking up their marriage. but i'm saying please don't parrot back stuff about what she did wrong. you have no proof of that, and it sounds ugly.

[Guest]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc). I had niggling little odd feelings, this led me to check up on things like cell phone records, time spent away from home, supposedly working etc.

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A? The OW didn't contact me first, I contacted her, and no, she lied about everything after first refusing to even consider talking with me. It was only after several months of me repeatedly finding her cell and home numbers on the cell bills that she finally decided to come clean with me, and even then lied about some things. She was married also.

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

No, he never once came completely clean with me. And yes, he did minimize, unfortunately, I could never regain my trust so I divorced him and listed her as a correspondant in my divorce filings, meaning she had alot of questions to answer from her own husband when court came and she got served with the subpeona to appear. Yes, I wanted details no matter how much it hurt.

 

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him * I tried to work it out, tried to stay and save my marriage but once the trust is broken it never returns for some of us. Irrepairable damage done by the broken trust and the lies that never stopped. But yes, I checked everything, and yes, there were rules and restrictions with severe consequences if they were broken by either my h or the OW, one of which was me going to her husband and letting him know what the two of them were doing behind his back also, and I was armed to the teeth with documented proof, pictures, cell bills, etc.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

OW showed up at my door several times, ranting and raving and throwing fits because by this point my H was trying to save his own ass and was casting all of the blame over onto her. No, I never did fear her but this greatly affected my well being and peace of mind so I did take out a restraining order/order of protection which she ignored and went to jail because of her actions, my H also filed one on her as well to keep her away from him at work and at our home. OW really paid a great price for not letting him go.

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

 

When your spouse betrays you and when you find out, there is nothing that can ever make it any better. It never stops hurting, you never stop having doubts or questions that go unanswered usually. No offense here but I just wish more OW would stop and think about the destruction that is caused because they and the mm cannot exercise a little self control and uphold morals that definately apply to all marriages. Bottom line: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime!

[Tomcat33]

tomcat, come on.

 

a - you don't know how she felt about her job, you know how he told you she felt about her job.

b - you don't know why she didn't come to functions, you know why he told you she didn't come to functions.

c - you don't know why they didn't spend more time together - how much of that was him, too? all you know was that seemed to be always alone - and then, after you pried it out of him (to determine whether he was playing you or not) he told you something that made an affair sound reasonable to you. think about that, please. it sounds like you have strong opinions about how a relationship should be and what his wife's responsibility was there, and that was probably fairly easy for him to read.

 

and yes, he did speak ill of her. what you've just said is proof of that. he was just very sly about it, but it's possible to passive-aggressively accuse someone of neglect without coming out and saying, "she's a bytch". all you have to do is say, "she's a strong woman and she's never home." yes, that is an implied accusation.

 

i'm certainly not saying his marriage's demise is all your fault! i'm saying it's really not all hers, and your comment unfortunately sounds rather a lot like repeating verbatim what he might have said about why it all fell apart. and it rings false.

 

like i said, i'm not accusing you of breaking up their marriage. but i'm saying please don't parrot back stuff about what she did wrong. you have no proof of that, and it sounds ugly

 

Yeah no kidding I didn't break up their marriage, HE broke up their marriage. I don't feel responsible in the LEAST for that. Sorry. That marriage was broken the moment the two of them decided to pursue their time apart rather than work on the problems they were having.

 

On the other hand I never said it was HER fault. All I said was whatever was there could not have been that good when the man was alone 24/7.

My comments are MY comments, he never ONCE blamed her for anything he took full responsibility for his part in drifting apart.

 

To me a marriage cannot survive when one of the partners are away for work at months at a time. Those are no one's words but my own. I stand firm on that idea. he did a terrible thing in looking outside instead of confronting the issues at hand, I have no doubt about that. But he assured me that there was no love left and I believed him. I also spoke to his family, they told me themselves that they could not see why the got married in the first place. And he didn't "seem to be alone"he WAS alone. For whatever the reason may be. If that were me it would not take me almost a year to clue in that my husband was off trying to start a rel. on the side, I would have got to the nitty gritty of it when I saw the drifting occur in the first place but that's just me.

 

Everyone has opinions just as you have opinions but only the people involved in said situations know how and why they come upon the opinions that they do.

[herenow]

I agree 100% with this (not so much the used part). So many times I told him that what he needed was to refind himself within his marriage, he should rediscover his wife and her needs and they should rekindle their love for one another, but he really did not seem to want that. he would tell me it was not something he wanted to do.

 

When I say that the MM needs to figure out what is missing in himself, I'm not referring to the marriage, I talking about the man himself. MM who have affairs for the most part do it because of something they are missing.

 

It is possible for couples to discuss and work on (or not) problems within the marriage without one of them going out to find the fix in another person. He cannot rekindle anything in his marriage or any relationship until he faces his own problems.

 

If the MM is unable to fix the reason in that caused the behavior in the first place he will be unable to be honest in any relationship. This has nothing to do with the marriage or whether or not the MM stays or leaves.

[Tomcat33]

When I say that the MM needs to figure out what is missing in himself, I'm not referring to the marriage, I talking about the man himself. MM who have affairs for the most part do it because of something they are missing.

 

 

Well that's certainly one school of thought. there are many many reasons sited why people have affairs. Some even say that a man starts to look elsewhere when he feels unappreciated, when he feels that he is no longer admired by their partner. Others site that the reason people cheat is because they feel resentment toward their partner. Others because they are bored, or because they are insecure. We can't site ONE particular reason as the blanket reason for cheating. Every case and every individual is different. So while your thoughts are good and I would agree that in a particular case where the person is going though some personal crisis this may apply, neither you nor I know what the reason was for my MM man to do it, only he knows.

 

But what I do know that this man was not a familiy man whom I stole away from a cosy family. he was a man who was married who appeared to be single. I am a firm believer that actions speak louder than words.

 

I dunnow... if there is one thing this whole experience has taught me and probably one of the most valuable lessons I've learned is that in life there are not black or whites there is a ton of grey that some of us don't even know we are capable of seeing until we live it.

 

If the MM is unable to fix the reason in that caused the behavior in the first place he will be unable to be honest in any relationship. This has nothing to do with the marriage or whether or not the MM stays or leaves.

 

I agree 100% and that is why he is on his own now and I am in strict NC and he is going to therapy (he has been for months) because he is no good to me broken. Yes I love him yes it did feel different yes I did feel like he is my soulmate but I need to bee 100% certain that this was a one time deal, and the learned what he needed from it to be the best he needs to be. I am also about to embark in therapy so I feel that I am well open to the idea that this was wrong from the get-go. And though I may have lost myself in the situation compromising my own morals and beliefs I too want to ensure that I can grow the most possible from a very painful experience.

[outofdarkness]

Sorry guys, but it just hurt to read any more posts on this subject....I respect each and every one of you for being so honest..I just still don't understand how anyone..OW/OM/MM/MW can cheat! I just think it's so hurtful to the BS and family...It destroys family..AND I don't think it's too healthy for OW either...If future OW/MM could feel the pain that I feel now, mabey it would prevent it from every happening in the first place. No, this is not realistic...it's a dream, but it helps to write out your feelings sometimes.

[Tomcat33]

Outof darkness - I know sweetie I know exactly how you feel, I know it's the most horrible thing a person can do to someone they say they love. I'm sorry for your pain, Im sorry for my exMMs wife's pain. I really am.

I don't understand it either. I don't and I know it may be hypocritical of me given that I did end up doing the unspeakable and got involved with a married man but I could NEVER EVER do that to anyone I was with. I never have and now that I have seen just how horrible the whole thing is first hand it just solidifies everything I have always thought about it, But then I am the type of person who would rather confront a situation dead on than to let it fester to the point of no return. If I thought there was room for a wandering eye I would just as soon get out.

[Trialbyfire]

How did I miss this thread? I'll bite...

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

I had a gut-feeling and went with it. I found out on my own.

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

Nope, I contacted her. Yes and yes.

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

He tried to minimize and lied through his teeth but...I eventually got most of it...

 

There were some details.

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

It was a strangle-hold for a very short period and then I kicked him to the curb. I know for fact there was no contact between him and his ex-OW during the balance of our marriage and even to this day. He hasn't even dated since. Maybe I neutered him.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

I had/have absolutely no fear of the OW, especially after our little "meeting". Since it will never happen, I'm not concerned. If it ever did happen, my ex would bear the brunt of the blame with enough blame left over for the OW.

[SoxPrincess]

Sorry guys, but it just hurt to read any more posts on this subject....I respect each and every one of you for being so honest..I just still don't understand how anyone..OW/OM/MM/MW can cheat! I just think it's so hurtful to the BS and family...It destroys family..AND I don't think it's too healthy for OW either...If future OW/MM could feel the pain that I feel now, mabey it would prevent it from every happening in the first place. No, this is not realistic...it's a dream, but it helps to write out your feelings sometimes.

 

OOD, I've read all of your posts here and on the infidelity forum, but I didn't want to respond on the infidelity forum because I know how hurtful it can be to have an OW or exOW in my case respond to something so personal for you. I just wanted to say how sorry that I am that you're in so much pain and although I cannot relate, I do sympathize with you greatly.

[woe_is_me]

Why..when and if a marriage is so miserable..dont they separate for a while, at least to re discover themselves and possibly, if they're lucky what was lost in their relationship or M?

 

By this time though the unhappiest spouse is usually so happy...happy beyond belief.. and wouldn't fathom the thought of co habitating with someone who made them so sad all over again.. JMO

 

OOD i read a lot of your posts..they are heart wrenching .. you deserve better and should use the time he isn't with you to gain strength ..it took me 3 years to finally get my exH to leave after his one night stand ..i think that the thought of sleeping/living alone was the reason it took so long to separate...as well as him really not wanting to leave..but he was a control freak..and a cheat ..why is it that he was the suspicious one yet was the one who ended up cheating??? Ironic.

 

I had a lot of fun after he left finding out that i wasn't all the things he said i was .. til i met MM lol and so began another chapter.

 

I realised the other day that it was just under two years between splitting with my exH and meeting MM..not long enough!

[outofdarkness]

OOD, I've read all of your posts here and on the infidelity forum, but I didn't want to respond on the infidelity forum because I know how hurtful it can be to have an OW or exOW in my case respond to something so personal for you. I just wanted to say how sorry that I am that you're in so much pain and although I cannot relate, I do sympathize with you greatly.

That was a very kind and compassionate post..Thank you so very much!

[outofdarkness]

Why..when and if a marriage is so miserable..dont they separate for a while, at least to re discover themselves and possibly, if they're lucky what was lost in their relationship or M?

 

By this time though the unhappiest spouse is usually so happy...happy beyond belief.. and wouldn't fathom the thought of co habitating with someone who made them so sad all over again.. JMO

 

OOD i read a lot of your posts..they are heart wrenching .. you deserve better and should use the time he isn't with you to gain strength ..it took me 3 years to finally get my exH to leave after his one night stand ..i think that the thought of sleeping/living alone was the reason it took so long to separate...as well as him really not wanting to leave..but he was a control freak..and a cheat ..why is it that he was the suspicious one yet was the one who ended up cheating??? Ironic.

 

I had a lot of fun after he left finding out that i wasn't all the things he said i was .. til i met MM lol and so began another chapter.

 

I realised the other day that it was just under two years between splitting with my exH and meeting MM..not long enough!

I really enjoyed reading your post. Although I do not persnally agree w/ A's for obvious reasons, I find it refreshing that you have found happiness after your ugly experience. Thanks so much for your post

[serial muse]

Yeah no kidding I didn't break up their marriage, HE broke up their marriage. I don't feel responsible in the LEAST for that. Sorry. That marriage was broken the moment the two of them decided to pursue their time apart rather than work on the problems they were having.

 

On the other hand I never said it was HER fault. All I said was whatever was there could not have been that good when the man was alone 24/7.

My comments are MY comments, he never ONCE blamed her for anything he took full responsibility for his part in drifting apart.

 

To me a marriage cannot survive when one of the partners are away for work at months at a time. Those are no one's words but my own. I stand firm on that idea. he did a terrible thing in looking outside instead of confronting the issues at hand, I have no doubt about that. But he assured me that there was no love left and I believed him. I also spoke to his family, they told me themselves that they could not see why the got married in the first place. And he didn't "seem to be alone"he WAS alone. For whatever the reason may be. If that were me it would not take me almost a year to clue in that my husband was off trying to start a rel. on the side, I would have got to the nitty gritty of it when I saw the drifting occur in the first place but that's just me.

 

Everyone has opinions just as you have opinions but only the people involved in said situations know how and why they come upon the opinions that they do.

 

My point, if you reread my posts to you, is exactly this: I said I am NOT blaming you, but that you ARE blaming her. Period. Which I find ridiculous and judgmental. You do NOT know what the true situation was between them, all you have are your OPINIONS.

 

That is why it makes NO sense for you to say, "I don't feel responsible, sorry" or whatever. Because I never said you should feel sorry for anything. I said that you should stop blaming HER and stop being so judgmental - she shouldn't feel responsible for him cheating either. Sorry.

 

You've really got hold of this stereotypical "if he were MY man, I'd NEVER let him feel unappreciated" that is the worst kind of judgment because it's based on a bunch of lies and deceit and one-sided storytelling by a guy who is a proven liar. Every now and again I'll read an OW on this board say something like that and it's just plain ridiculous, and feels like justification. Nobody can say anything for sure about what goes on between two other people. You're being kind of crazily judgmental of another person's relationship, in other words. How about cut it out?

[Tomcat33]

My point, if you reread my posts to you, is exactly this: I said I am NOT blaming you, but that you ARE blaming her. Period. Which I find ridiculous and judgmental.

 

Please point out where I blame HER for everything? I re-read what I wrote and every time stated both sides of what I thought went wrong. Of course her side it was sited from what he told me and what I saw, but are you not doing the exact same thing? Stating an opinion based on what you see infront of you?

Be careful not to be the one calling the kettle black....

 

 

like i said, i'm not accusing you of breaking up their marriage. but i'm saying please don't parrot back stuff about what she did wrong. you have no proof of that, and it sounds ugly.

 

I'm not accusing you BUT... Sounds accusitory to me...If you are not accusing then you might want to end it with a period. Not a BUT blah blah blah. It implies you ARE in a round about way accusing.

 

That is why it makes NO sense for you to say, "I don't feel responsible, sorry" or whatever. Because I never said you should feel sorry for anything. I said that you should stop blaming HER and stop being so judgmental - she shouldn't feel responsible for him cheating either. Sorry.

 

It makes perfect sense that I would clarify that I DON'T feel responisble for their marriage break-down. THEY are responsible for it. It's 50/50% my friend. Yes HE cheated, but they BOTH let the marriage go to hell. So when I site her faults, of my impression of what her faults were I base it on what I saw and all the information I gathered both from him and his family.

 

 

You've really got hold of this stereotypical "if he were MY man, I'd NEVER let him feel unappreciated" that is the worst kind of judgment

 

Because in a past relationship I was cheated on, my partner at the time had a fling with a co-worker it was a weekend sexual thing. I suspected an emotional thing happening she had started working with him a month prior and he would talk about her alot. I got rid of him and never forgave him, but that's irrelevant the point is at that time and in that particular relationship I was taking him for granted I was emotionally starving him from a healthy connection because I was not 100% about him, i was young and my priorities were different and took him for granted. I know what my part was in pushing him away. He did it to spite me, he told me himself, it was to get back at me for depriving him of my love and though I would NEVER admit to it to him I know what I did to push him away. That doesn't excuse what he did and that's why I never forgave him but I am well aware of my part in it.

 

So I "judge" from experience...50/50%. I have learned from my past mistakes and would not do that ever again to a man, I should reach out and communicate rather than deprive him of what he deserves, OR get out of the relationship.

[herenow]

Tomcat, I can see in your posts that even if the MM told you his marriage was over, it obviously wasn't over as far as his wife was concerned. The fact that she wanted him to go to therapy and try to work things out proves that she wanted to save the marriage.

 

You are basing your belief about this from what he tells you, but the facts tell a different story. You have no idea what is really going on in their relationship. You only see what he wants you to see and he only tells you what he wants you to know. And it's very possible that neither of those are the real truth.

[whichwayisup]

HN, I don't think TC can accept the possibility that her MM has pulled the wool over her eyes here and there...She really needs to believe all that he says IS the truth.

 

You are right, facts (and actions) tell a different story.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat, I can see in your posts that even if the MM told you his marriage was over, it obviously wasn't over as far as his wife was concerned. The fact that she wanted him to go to therapy and try to work things out proves that she wanted to save the marriage.

 

I never denied that? I was well aware she wanted to save the marriage. I don't see your point? I never denied he lied to me about it bieng 100% over either...what's the point?

 

HN, I don't think TC can accept the possibility that her MM has pulled the wool over her eyes here and there...She really needs to believe all that he says IS the truth.

 

You are right, facts (and actions) tell a different story

 

I just find it really amusing that YOU who did not live my situation can state your opinions as facts, as truths but my opinions based on what I lived, are just speculation? C'mon ladies!!

And are you kidding me OF COURSE I know he pulled the wool over my eyes!?!? Read my past posts!!