BS' (Female or Male) Some Questions

[herenow]

HN, I don't think TC can accept the possibility that her MM has pulled the wool over her eyes here and there...She really needs to believe all that he says IS the truth.

 

You are right, facts (and actions) tell a different story.

 

I know how hard it was for me to accept the fact that my H who I loved so much had lied to me in the most devastating way. But, I needed to face the truth so that I could begin to mend the pain.

 

Maybe she has found her own way to mend her own pain. Or, maybe she has hopes that they will be together and for that reason, she can't see the truths hidden in this story. I have to say, there are some parts of her story that don't make sense and usually when something doesn't make sense, there is a lie in there somewhere.

[Tomcat33]

Maybe she has found her own way to mend her own pain. Or, maybe she has hopes that they will be together and for that reason, she can't see the truths hidden in this story. I have to say, there are some parts of her story that don't make sense and usually when something doesn't make sense, there is a lie in there somewhere.

 

Well there is absolutely no need to talk about me as if I am not present, I amd very much a part of this discussion. You can direct any concerns or questions you might have as to where you feel I am lying, and I will gladly answer your questions.

 

usually when something doesn't make sense, there is a lie in there somewhere.

 

Is that a fact? When something doesn't make sense it means there is a lie? Or could it be that if something doesn't make sense, you might not be comprehending it? Hence ask all the questions you need to so that we can be on the same page, THEN you can decide if you are being lied to.

 

I find it hard to take you lady's suggestions/opinions/comments seriously when you talk in absolutes yourselves. When you make blanket statements yourselves. If you read your language, it does not profess what you preach. The bit about not making judgements, not forming false opinions etc....

 

Maybe she has found her own way to mend her own pain. Or, maybe

 

Or maybe I am just trying to balance out all the options. I've done my share of speculating, mistrusting etc. given my situation and maybe now that I am away from it I can see things from different angles.

[herenow]

OK Tomcat, here is where I'm confused. You say that you did not have anything to do with the break up of their marriage. You say that their marriage was over when "she" decided to become a workaholic. Then you say that she wanted to save her marriage and you only gave him a reason to move out (your words). I don't get it. How can you say that the marriage was over when you admit you knew that it wasn't for the wife, but you had nothing to do with it since you only gave him a reason to move out???

 

I was answering a post from WWIU, so I wasn't intentionally not talking to you. BTW, I said "usually" when something doesn't makes sense there is a lie involved. It's not a fact, it's a statement.

[Trialbyfire]

TC33, you want to believe so badly that your MM had some integrity towards relationships. Most often, they do not. While they're "in the heat of the moment", whether it's with the OW or the BW, they lie to themselves as well, which is what convinces both OW or BW. Look to car salesmen, as an example...

 

Reality for you is what the MM makes it. Same goes for the BW. In actuality, reality is something completely different. Both women live in the fantasy world that the MM has created for them.

 

When D-day arrives. The MM has to pick which fantasy world he's created. Is it about panic or is it about reality crashing in?

[herenow]

Also Tomcat, no one ever said YOU were lying. I "think" that the MM is lying to you MORE than you think he is. I DON"T doubt that what you say is happening to you is truly happening.

[Tomcat33]

OK Tomcat, here is where I'm confused. You say that you did not have anything to do with the break up of their marriage. You say that their marriage was over when "she" decided to become a workaholic. Then you say that she wanted to save her marriage and you only gave him a reason to move out (your words). I don't get it. How can you say that the marriage was over when you admit you knew that it wasn't for the wife, but you had nothing to do with it since you only gave him a reason to move out???

 

I never said their marriage was over when she decided to become an workaholic, that may be what you interpreted. Those are not my words. What I did say was that I can see why he felt neglected when she was travelling for work two months at a time and that when I met him he would ALWAYS attend functions on his own and was alone 24/7 he was completely available for 5 months COMPLETELY and this is before I even knew anything about how he felt this was just looking from the outside what I saw. That to me looking at it from the outside does not seem like a marriage that is functioning or that spends quality time togther. They both wanted children but had put it off...too many things that don't make sense. I don't know EXACTLY what happend in their marriage and never will, but what I do know is that for a marriage to break down it takes two people. It takes two people to wear a relationship down.

I blame him 100% for not confronting he in time and telling her I am thinking of leaving and cheating instead, but I blame them both for letting the marriage wear down. THAT is why don't feel I am to blame for their breakdown. I did not make the decision to cheat HE did, I did not pursue him HE pursued me once he left home. I did not make my life vows to her for better or worse, he did. When you vow to be for each other for better or worse, you do not choose your career over your loved one. That to me is also a vow broken, my partner is not my #1 priority anymore, my career is.

They are all choices.

[herenow]

I never said their marriage was over when she decided to become an workaholic, that may be what you interpreted. Those are not my words.

 

Sorry Tomcat, you are correct. This is what you said:

 

Post #36

 

"Yeah no kidding I didn't break up their marriage, HE broke up their marriage. I don't feel responsible in the LEAST for that. Sorry. That marriage was broken the moment the two of them decided to pursue their time apart rather than work on the problems they were having."

 

I will look for the workaholic comment and see where I went wrong.

 

What I'm trying to say is that you decided the marriage was over based on what you saw and what the MM told you, but in reality (and we all know this is a fact) it wasn't over as far as the wife was concerned. Just because you think it's wrong for a woman or man to put such importance on their career, doesn't mean that the marriage had to end. In my opinion, you were instrumental in ending the marriage (if it's indeed really over).

[Tomcat33]

What I'm trying to say is that you decided the marriage was over based on what you saw and what the MM told you, but in reality (and we all know this is a fact) it wasn't over as far as the wife was concerned. Just because you think it's wrong for a woman or man to put such importance on their career, doesn't mean that the marriage had to end. In my opinion, you were instrumental in ending the marriage (if it's indeed really over).

 

I decided tha marriage was over because he showed me by moving out that it was. You are missing the point. I didn't decide the marriage was over HE decided it was, which is why he moved out. I don't have that kind of power, it was not MY decision to make because I was not part of THAT marriage. whether he discussed this with his W or not is not really my issue. I was not a part of that marriage only he and she were. So how am "I" responisble for the way in which the marriage ended? What I did decide, given what I saw, what I heard from him, from his family is that that the marriage was indeed in some kind of trouble it was not a good one looking at it from the outside. And yes I beleived him that he wanted out.

 

It didn't HAVE to end because they drifted apart, it ended, because one party or both was not willing to salvage what he/she had. I suppose the love was not deep enough to try to win the marriage back. Does that not speak volumes in and of itself? He is still living alone he has not gone back so obviously someone there wants the marriage ended.

So I don't know why you are taking this so personally and insisiting it on it being my doing. I don't feel it was my doing at ALL, in that respect my conscience is clean and beating a dead horse due to your own issues caused by your own situation is not going to make me change my mind. We can discuss our situations, and compare stories and views but let's remember they are SEPERATE situations, let's not take things personally.

[FireandIce]

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

 

I had a feeling that he was but I didn't want to admit it to myself. I never thought he'd do something like that to me. Now looking back I see that all the signs were there. The marriage was in the crapper for a very long time due to intamacy issues and how I felt about myself and he finally had enough.

We had already separated by the time I found out due to other issues. Then I found out from one of his friends girlfriends.

 

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

 

While I didn't hear the news from her she did end up contacting me when my husband and I were trying to work things out. This was about 2 months after we originally split up and he came to me saying how much he missed being here with me and the kids. He loved me but said he we needed to work on our problems if we're going to work. I agreed. We spent the next three days talking more than we ever had about pretty much everything (we've been married for 9 years). During one of those nights I saw a car stop in front of our house and then take off really fast. Then I saw it again when he was in the room and he confirmed that it was her. He had been telling her that he wanted to make the marriage work but she had a hard time accepting that.

The next day she called my house asking for him (he still wasn't living here at the time so she could have just called his cell phone if she wanted to talk. I still to this day feel she only did it to piss me off and let me know she wasn't going to give up without a fight). Well the first time she called my kids were in the room so I didn't say much other than he'd be here all night and that I'd think about giving him the message (yeah right, I went right up to him and said "WTF is she doing calling MY house?" yeah, I was a little ticked off). She then called again but this time my kids were outside so I lost it on her. She kept telling me that he didn't love me anymore (obviously what he had told her at the time) and then I informed her that he had "loved" me multiple times as of late. She was upset and I loved it. Screw her! I should have told her how he was still wanting me after he left when she thought she had him 100%. Stupid little girl, what did she expect when she got involved with a MM? The thing that ticks me off the most is the fact that she was dating someone else and we invited them over to our house about a year ago. I found out later that she's wanted him since then although they didn't start anything until last summer. The phony little cow kissing my butt while she was here.

 

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

 

 

I know the reasoning behind the affair and in my own way I understand why he did it. When we decided to work on things I made it clear that full honesty was needed and he gave me just that. The only things he kind of backed off telling me were the "details" that I asked. I wanted to know everything minus a few things and felt that it was the only way I could heal from this. When, where, how much were things that I needed to know and although he said "why do you want to know this when you know it will hurt you?" I still had to know. Some of the stuff I actually wished I didn't know but I'm the type of person that needs full disclosure of everything.

The hardest thing I heard was him telling me that he had told her that he loved her. I think that was worse than actually knowing they had sex. She was everything I was not at the time (young, no kids, single, etc) and that hurt. I know he loves me but it still hurts that he could give that love to someone else so easily. Our relationship was such a mess at the time (we are working on it now) and he felt we were at the point of no return. He had tried for so many years but I constantly pushed him away. It wasn't until he was actually gone (before I knew about the affair) that I realized what I was missing. Then I heard about the affair and it killed me. I was so angry, hurt, disgusted, etc. but I knew deep down why he did it. One can only be pushed away for so long before they finally give up. Lots of issues that I haven't even explained here so it's hard to understand what was going on but trust me, it was very hard for quite a few years.

 

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

 

Sort of. I check his cell phone but I haven't told him that I've been doing it. I figure if he really wants to make this work (he's the one that came to me) then it's up to him to make the right choices. I'm doing everything that I said I would so if that's not enough for him then so be it. I can't run around behind him 24/7 because honestly, I shouldn't have to. I check the cell phone once a week and that's about it.

I have a new saying though-- we're now part of the "You go, I go Club". If he's going out then I'm going with him. That was one of our big problems. We never did anything together and that has now changed. He always wanted me to come out with him and enjoy the things he did but I was so caught up in my own problems that I didn't even consider it. Sure we'd go camping and such but that was about as far as it went.

 

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

 

I never feared for my own safety (I could take her...lol) but I was worried that she would get her rather large family involved and go after my husband. I figured he got himself into the mess so it was up to him to get out of it.

Other than a few nasty phone calls she has made to me and a few drive bys it has been relatively calm. The biggest joke was her telling me that she hated me over and over again on the phone. Like I was the one who stole her man. That's what ticks me off the most about her. She's a real piece of work and I can't stand her. I can't stand the fact that I was nice to her when she was in my home while the whole time she was interested in my husband. I found out later that she had been pursuing him for two years. She's trash and I will never, EVER feel sorry for her. No, my husband is not innocent and I know that but I have such a hatred for her because of the history that I now know. She's a liar, backstabber, whore, etc. She had no thoughts about our children and didn't care what happened to them. I found out from one of my husbands friends girlfriends that this "thing" actually tried to talk my husband into selling our house so they could buy one together. When he said that he didn't want to do that because he wanted the kids and I to stay in the home she actually freaked out saying that he shouldn't care what happens to me or the kids because he is with her now. When he told her that we were going to work things out and that we used to love each other deeply and we owe it to ourselves and our kids to try and find that love again she actually said "I'll give you kids if that's what you want." I'm still shaking my head at that one. I can't understand how a woman can be so selfish and not give a damn about the kids.

Anyways, that pretty much answers your questions I think. It's a very, VERY hard thing to deal with and I still think about it constantly. I don't think this pain of his betrayal will ever go away. I feel that I can forgive him in time (not for awhile) but I will NEVER forget. It will always be in the back of my head anytime he's late or anytime he's not where he says he's going to be and I hate that. We are trying to work things out but we have a very long road ahead of us and it won't be easy. As long as he remains faithful then I think we can do it but then again, I never thought he'd cheat in the first place.

[herenow]

I decided tha marriage was over because he showed me by moving out that it was. You are missing the point. I didn't decide the marriage was over HE decided it was, which is why he moved out. I don't have that kind of power, it was not MY decision to make because I was not part of THAT marriage. whether he discussed this with his W or not is not really my issue. I was not a part of that marriage only he and she were. So how am "I" responisble for the way in which the marriage ended? What I did decide, given what I saw, what I heard from him, from his family is that that the marriage was indeed in some kind of trouble it was not a good one looking at it from the outside. And yes I beleived him that he wanted out.

 

It didn't HAVE to end because they drifted apart, it ended, because one party or both was not willing to salvage what he/she had. I suppose the love was not deep enough to try to win the marriage back. Does that not speak volumes in and of itself? He is still living alone he has not gone back so obviously someone there wants the marriage ended.

So I don't know why you are taking this so personally and insisiting it on it being my doing. I don't feel it was my doing at ALL, in that respect my conscience is clean and beating a dead horse due to your own issues caused by your own situation is not going to make me change my mind. We can discuss our situations, and compare stories and views but let's remember they are SEPERATE situations, let's not take things personally.

 

Ok, Tomcat, you had nothing to do with their marriage. You are just an innocent bystander. BTW, I don't take this personally at all, your situation is not like mine in any way. I just have a little issue with people who don't take responsibility for their actions. But, obviously that's not you because you are not responsible for anything that happened in the marriage of the man you were having great sex with. Forgive me for thinking that you were at all guilty, I now know the truth. Thank you for opening my eyes. Carry on.

[Tomcat33]

I know the reasoning behind the affair and in my own way I understand why he did it. When we decided to work on things I made it clear that full honesty was needed and he gave me just that. The only things he kind of backed off telling me were the "details" that I asked. I wanted to know everything minus a few things and felt that it was the only way I could heal from this. When, where, how much were things that I needed to know and although he said "why do you want to know this when you know it will hurt you?" I still had to know. Some of the stuff I actually wished I didn't know but I'm the type of person that needs full disclosure of everything.

 

The hardest thing I heard was him telling me that he had told her that he loved her. I think that was worse than actually knowing they had sex. She was everything I was not at the time (young, no kids, single, etc) and that hurt. I know he loves me but it still hurts that he could give that love to someone else so easily. Our relationship was such a mess at the time (we are working on it now) and he felt we were at the point of no return. He had tried for so many years but I constantly pushed him away. It wasn't until he was actually gone (before I knew about the affair) that I realized what I was missing. Then I heard about the affair and it killed me. I was so angry, hurt, disgusted, etc. but I knew deep down why he did it. One can only be pushed away for so long before they finally give up. Lots of issues that I haven't even explained here so it's hard to understand what was going on but trust me, it was very hard for quite a few years.

I have a new saying though-- we're now part of the "You go, I go Club". If he's going out then I'm going with him. That was one of our big problems. We never did anything together and that has now changed. He always wanted me to come out with him and enjoy the things he did but I was so caught up in my own problems that I didn't even consider it. Sure we'd go camping and such but that was about as far as it went.

 

Wow this sounds EXACTLY like the situation with my exMM except there were no kids in his picture. I guess not every situation is cookie cutter like some here were trying to preach earlier in our discussion.

 

The biggest joke was her telling me that she hated me over and over again on the phone. Like I was the one who stole her man. That's what ticks me off the most about her. She's a real piece of work and I can't stand her.

It seems like that woman is trully sick, how could she hate you? How could any OW who's MM opts to go back to the marriage hate the W? That is ridiculous, on the other hand I don't blame you ONE bit for hating her.

When my MM decided to go back home to try to work out the marriage I hated HIM for leading me on never HER? In fact before we were even caught people would tell me, you should call her and tell, her I could not bring myself to do such a thing. How could that even feel remotely good?

[Tomcat33]

Ok, Tomcat, you had nothing to do with their marriage. You are just an innocent bystander. BTW, I don't take this personally at all, your situation is not like mine in any way. I just have a little issue with people who don't take responsibility for their actions. But, obviously that's not you because you are not responsible for anything that happened in the marriage of the man you were having great sex with. Forgive me for thinking that you were at all guilty, I now know the truth. Thank you for opening my eyes. Carry on.

 

Look Herenow, I HAD nothing to do with their marriage, I was not married to his W he was. I started dating this man when he promised me he wanted out of the marriage, and proceeded to get his own place, so I trusted (foolishly or not) that he was ready to seperate he wanted out. When he showed me this in his actions I reconveined contact with him we started to get to know one another even deeper emotionally and within months of this we started dating. But as far as their marriage goes I don't feel responsible at all. HE PURSUED ME. HE ASSURED ME HE HAD THE TALK with his W and was done with the marriage. I was not the one off travelling for months at a time not knowing what my husband was up to.

 

What I DO feel responsible for and I will take 100% responsibility for is all the pain and suffering I brought on to myself for putting trust in someone and allowing myself to speak of building a future with someone who was not emotionally available to do so. THAT is what I take full responsibility for, my own stupidity for believing a man who I should have had more caution in trusting and which I ALLOWED to hurt me. I am responsible for my own pain in the end.

 

As far as THEIR marriage goes, it's NOT my responsibility.

There are PLENTY of seperated people all over, plenty who have been seperated for yrs and are still married and they date and have no intention of going back to their marriages or at least it appears this way. This man came into my life by chance, I took a huge gamble on him because I thought we were soul mates. Call me stupid but it felt, and still feels that way. He insists that for him it did as well. If your marriage is doing fine and it's the OW's fault that it breaks up why did it feel like he had met his soul mate? why was this feeling mutual? we had tremendous amount of commonalities more so than he could ever have with his W, his own MOTHER told me this. Why did he come back to me every single time he tried to salvage the marriage?

 

I'm sorry tell me that the guy is a liar, that he does things completely ass-backwards, that I am a gullible fool, that I am stupid, fine I'll accept all those things. But tell me that I was the reason their marriage could not be saved....sorry I just don't see that at all.

[whichwayisup]

Why did he come back to me every single time he tried to salvage the marriage?

 

Because you kept the door open and continued to give him an out. Who knows, if you had told him goodbye forever and shut him out of your life, maybe he would have been FORCED to face his wife and deal with their problems. Maybe all his focus would have been on her, his wife, instead of still having two women in his life.

 

Don't know how ANYONE could fix a marriage when the OM/OW is still around. The marriage wasn't given a real chance to see if it could be fixed because you were still in his life.

[Tomcat33]

Because you kept the door open and continued to give him an out. Who knows, if you had told him goodbye forever and shut him out of your life, maybe he would have been FORCED to face his wife and deal with their problems. Maybe all his focus would have been on her, his wife, instead of still having two women in his life.

 

Don't know how ANYONE could fix a marriage when the OM/OW is still around. The marriage wasn't given a real chance to see if it could be fixed because you were still in his life.

 

LOL this is interesting so now it's MY fault for staying in the picture AFTER i fell in love with this man, who's W who gave two f#$%s about him neglected him too such point that the guy moved out to be with another woman, and months after the fact when she found out about this she desperately wanted him back? Don't you think she had her chance? C'mon you want to tell me she had no CLUE that her marriage was on the rocks? When our EA started he would call me from the house while she was upstairs doing work she would come into the room and interrupt him on the phone he would talk to her and then she would be off again. He would come to meet me for work for hours and hours at a time on weekends, and I would ask him "doesn't your wife ever call you?" the answer was always no she is off doing her thing. I asked him many times we have to stop talking like this from your house (when the EA started to get going) I don't want problems what if she finds out. his answer was always, trust me she doesn't care.

 

It took him moving out and 5 months after he moved out and we were full on dating to clue in that there was someone else? C'MON There is no worse BLIND than he who does not want to see. Talk about denial!

 

 

 

I kept the door open because we were in love. And by keeping the door open I mean I accepted him when he wanted to come back to me. I never went after him because he was no good to me confused. He assured me the only reason he would go back was out of guilt, to prove to her that the marriage was not going to work because HE DID NOT WANT it to work. But as the weeks went on he could not stop thinking about me and it drove him nuts knowing that we could not be together.

 

Now if according to some of you all he wanted was sex it's not about love, couldn't he get that from anyone else? Why come back to me?

[herenow]

Look Herenow, I HAD nothing to do with their marriage, I was not married to his W he was. I started dating this man when he promised me he wanted out of the marriage, and proceeded to get his own place, so I trusted (foolishly or not) that he was ready to seperate he wanted out. When he showed me this in his actions I reconveined contact with him we started to get to know one another even deeper emotionally and within months of this we started dating. But as far as their marriage goes I don't feel responsible at all. HE PURSUED ME. HE ASSURED ME HE HAD THE TALK with his W and was done with the marriage. I was not the one off travelling for months at a time not knowing what my husband was up to.

 

What I DO feel responsible for and I will take 100% responsibility for is all the pain and suffering I brought on to myself for putting trust in someone and allowing myself to speak of building a future with someone who was not emotionally available to do so. THAT is what I take full responsibility for, my own stupidity for believing a man who I should have had more caution in trusting and which I ALLOWED to hurt me. I am responsible for my own pain in the end.

 

As far as THEIR marriage goes, it's NOT my responsibility.

There are PLENTY of seperated people all over, plenty who have been seperated for yrs and are still married and they date and have no intention of going back to their marriages or at least it appears this way. This man came into my life by chance, I took a huge gamble on him because I thought we were soul mates. Call me stupid but it felt, and still feels that way. He insists that for him it did as well. If your marriage is doing fine and it's the OW's fault that it breaks up why did it feel like he had met his soul mate? why was this feeling mutual? we had tremendous amount of commonalities more so than he could ever have with his W, his own MOTHER told me this. Why did he come back to me every single time he tried to salvage the marriage?

 

I'm sorry tell me that the guy is a liar, that he does things completely ass-backwards, that I am a gullible fool, that I am stupid, fine I'll accept all those things. But tell me that I was the reason their marriage could not be saved....sorry I just don't see that at all.

 

OK, Tomcat, no problem. I said you are right. Why is it so important to you to try and change my mind? I'm not trying to change yours, you told me not to and I'm listening. Let's just agree to disagree shall we.

[FireandIce]

Wow this sounds EXACTLY like the situation with my exMM except there were no kids in his picture. I guess not every situation is cookie cutter like some here were trying to preach earlier in our discussion.

 

 

 

Well I wouldn't say it's exactly like your situation with the W of the MM. I wasn't a workaholic and I did want to spend time with him. I just didn't want to go out and socialize due to some issues I was having. I felt horrible about myself and ended up taking it out on him. It just snowballed from there to the point where I was constantly rejecting him. He dealt with it for a very long time trying to talk to me and work on things but because I hated myself so much I was unable to work on anything. I'm not a psycho or anything (LOL) I was overweight and I felt horrible about myself. It wasn't until he left that I started looking back at how I had been acting. I wouldn't have wanted to be in the situation either if I were him. I'm not giving him an excuse for what he did but I can understand why he did it.

 

I don't know (and really, neither did you) what the wife of the MM was thinking or going through. He was just telling you that she wasn't there for him. Well I think my hubby was probably saying the same thing but left out the fact that I was dealing with some personal issues regarding myself and how I looked and that's why the intimacy wasn't there and why I never wanted to go out and socialize.

 

It seems like that woman is trully sick, how could she hate you? How could any OW who's MM opts to go back to the marriage hate the W? That is ridiculous, on the other hand I don't blame you ONE bit for hating her.

When my MM decided to go back home to try to work out the marriage I hated HIM for leading me on never HER? In fact before we were even caught people would tell me, you should call her and tell, her I could not bring myself to do such a thing. How could that even feel remotely good?

 

Yeah she's a real piece of work alright. She's young (23) so I have a feeling she felt like she had the world by the balls. She went from one Canadian manager to another. The reason I say that is because she is not a citizen of Canada yet and IMO that's what she was after. Well that and the money. Why else go after two different managers at the same company? Doesn't even get rid of one before starting on the other.

 

I think that's why she was so desperate when he broke it off with her. She said the nastiest things about me and our kids. "I'll be here waiting for you when she's not ******* you anymore", "I'll give you more kids if that's what you want", "She won't change because she's too old to change" (yeah, I'm 31...lol It's not like I'm 70!). She said all of this when he finally confronted her about driving by and calling the house (she actually got her sister to call and tell me that my husband was with another woman "right now". Too bad she didn't realize he was still at work and I was talking to him on the other line. LOL Dumbass!). She destroyed the place he was staying and he just let her vent. It wasn't until she grabbed pictures of our kids and was going to smash them that he realized what type of person she was. I wasn't surprised that she would do that considering everything else she has said and done but he thought she was just venting and didn't actually mean the things she was saying. That was pretty hard to deal with, having him tell me that she wasn't really a bad person, just young and she loved him so that's why she was doing what she was doing. I kept telling him that no, she's just a freakin' psycho and that's why she was doing and saying what she was. She dug her own grave and I really didn't have to do or say anything.

[Tomcat33]

FireandIce

 

You're right my situation was not like yours in that the OW in your case sounds truly psycho. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I know that there is always another side to all these situations, that being of the W. It's not the Ws fault he decides to take it to the next step and deposit his time and even (love in some case) with another woman. There is no excuse for that. And we have to put the blame where the blame is due.

 

Having said that, at least you acknowlege where you might have made some mistakes in contributing to your share of what went wrong in your relationship, that was my point all along. Solely speaking from a relationship stand point, there are many factors that contribute to the breakdown of said union. Because I am neither psycho nor that insensitive or oblivious to what I was getting involved in, was I ever one to pressure him to leave his wife. The pressure in my case started once he assured me there was no turning back. after many flip flops and attempts at him trying to save the marriage did I put my foot down and say, you have to decide. This back and forth stuff cannot go on, I will not allow for myself because if you have come this far in coninving me that there is no turning back I need to see that it is indeed what you want. I let him go off to do what he had to after assuring me that he wante to be with me only, resigning to the fact that it was all lies and that he really didn't know what he wanted but he would always come back, until finally coming back for good only to need his own space to figure out what it all meant. And that is the point I'm at now. I can't say I don't wish we could pick up again and give it another go (I think!!?!) , but in order for that to happen he has to be 100% sure that there is no turning back I don't believe in pressuring someone to be with you, yes I pressured him for the divorce but after seeing that he needed his time all I could do was back off and believe me he is subltly trying to break the NC but I am not interested.

 

If this was a one time deal, if he acted out of line and did things terribly wrong once in his lifetime then time willl only tell. I believe that in life things are meant to be, so if he does decide to work things out with his wife then it was not meant to be for me to be with him and I fully accept that. On the other hand if he does decide to come back to me I also believe that it was meant to be and me being there for him (should I be if he decides to and if I decide to) is no more a contributor to his marriage not being saved than it was for him to look outside to fall in love again. I am not responsible for his heart, for what he feels and how he handles that. I would feel guilty and like a homewrecker if I pursued him after he had asked me to back off because he did not want to leave his marriage, but that never happened therefore I do not feel responsible for his inability to work on the marriage.

 

TOO bad for him that he fell in love with me, too bad for him that his heart is mixed up now (if it is) that he is confused and does not know what hid did. TOO bad for him. He made his bed now he should lay in it. TOUGH! I didnt force him to love me, he çhose to, his heart chose to. As much as I love him, he has to reap what he sows, and if it means eternal confussion that's just tough for him. He should not have made so many promises, so many castles in the air if he did not mean it. I believe that his inability in working out his marriage is his own, that's why I don't feel responsible for that.

 

At the end of the day, given how I am feeling today, and how far I've come even in the past few weeks I'm not even sure I would want to take him back. There would have to be a LOT on his part in order to prove to me that this was the right thing to do.

 

You know sometimes BWs fight to the bone to have their cheating H's back not realising that perhaps seeing them in such a horrible situation as it is to have your spouse cheat on you, could have been a blessing in disguise. Better to lose him than to get him back.

 

Oh and to those who use the children card, spare me, no child deserves to be brought by a pair of parents that don't love each other, children are smart and v impressionable. better to have two sets of parents that love each other than to have one set of parents that dispise one another nothing hurts a child more than to see the loveless relationship of their parents.(these last comments were in general Fire, they were not intended for you in mind since I don't know what your situation is)

[BentSpine]

Tomcat, I share your points of view. I look forward to reading your next post.

[silktricks]

I am an exOW, so I hope that it is OK that I am asking these questions and hopefully none of them are offensive as they are not meant to be. I'm trying to understand the "other side", as in not the OW and not the MM and I'm hoping some of you are willing to share your experiences. Maybe we all (OW's and BS') can learn from each other

 

(1) Did you have an inkling that your H was involved with someone else or did it come as a complete surprise? Did your H tell you about his A or did OW (or someone else, like a friend, family member etc).

I did have an idea something was going on, and in fact asked him about it. Of course, he lied. But I had my own issues going on at the time, and had in fact left him. So as he was busily attempting to convince me to come back to him, he was also getting his ego stroked elsewhere.

 

(2) If the OW contacted you, what was the conversation like for you? Do you feel like she was honest with you about the A and did you want to know everything about the A?

She never contacted me to have a conversation. She made numerous harassing hang-up phone calls, but no genuine ones.

 

(3) Do you feel like your H came clean to you about the entire A or just gave you snippets and tried to minimize the A? Again, if H told you about the A, did you want to know everything or did you not want to hear any "details"?

Yes, I do feel that he came clean to the extent that he was able. He didn't ever attempt to minimize. And yes, I did want to know everything. I think that's pretty much human nature, the need to know.

(4) If you decided to stay in your M, did you place "restrictions" on your H and require him to check in often? Did you ask to see his cell phone records, check his email, etc? *This question is one that I am particularly interested in seeing answered as exMM has continuously tried to contact me recently and I wondered if his W placed any sort of rules/restrictions on him *

I would never place restrictions on my H. He made himself totally available, offered up e-mail, cell phone records etc. If he had not done that willingly we may not have healed, but I am not his mother, and I will never put myself in the position of ensuring his good behavior. His behavior is his choice. What I do as a result of his behavior is mine.

 

(5) If you knew the OW or knew she lived close to you, did you ever fear that she would flip out and show up on your doorstep or inflict any personal harm upon you or H once H decided to return to the M? If something like this did happen, how did you handle it and did you blame H for bringing someone like that into your lives or did you place the blame solely on OW?

I did not know her, and though I did see her once (when she tried to hit me with her car) I wouldn't recognize her if I saw her again. She didn't live close, but came to this area to visit fairly often. My H was worried that she would attempt to harm one or both of us. I blame the woman. Her actions are her responsibility.

 

If anyone answers, thank you, I hope to have an open, healthy discussion and again, hopefully none of these questions come across as offensive, I am truly just inquisitive.

Hope these answers add to your knowledge of BS. (We're all different, yet still all the same.)

[serial muse]

Please point out where I blame HER for everything? I re-read what I wrote and every time stated both sides of what I thought went wrong. Of course her side it was sited from what he told me and what I saw, but are you not doing the exact same thing? Stating an opinion based on what you see infront of you?

Be careful not to be the one calling the kettle black....

 

Already did that. Could do it again if you like. But why bother? You know what you think about who's responsible.

As for stating an opinion...I'm telling you not to determine what went wrong in their relationship based on what he said. How is that judging anyone's relationship a la pots and kettles? Makes no sense, sorry.

 

I'm not accusing you BUT... Sounds accusitory to me...If you are not accusing then you might want to end it with a period. Not a BUT blah blah blah. It implies you ARE in a round about way accusing.

 

Allow me to rephrase. I am not accusing you of breaking up a marriage BUT I AM accusing you of placing the blame on his wife and not on him. Get it now?

 

 

 

It makes perfect sense that I would clarify that I DON'T feel responisble for their marriage break-down. THEY are responsible for it. It's 50/50% my friend. Yes HE cheated, but they BOTH let the marriage go to hell. So when I site her faults, of my impression of what her faults were I base it on what I saw and all the information I gathered both from him and his family.

 

Yes, my sarcastic "friend," and it also makes perfect sense that I would keep trying to point out to you that you're clarifying something that has nothing to do with what I said. I guess I should just say it again then? I have nothing to say about you and their relationship, and am not blaming you. Please stop responding to what you expect a BS to say and respond to what I'm actually saying.

 

Yes, you have said multiple times, on multiple threads, that you think it's the BS' fault for not paying enough attention to her husband. You also, in another thread, said that you think other BS are responsible, in a general sense, for the same reasons. Oy vey. Why not just own up to your own words? You think it's the BS' fault for neglecting him. You've said it umpteen times. I think that's judgmental and rude. That's the gist of my point here and I don't know why you're arguing with it.

 

Because in a past relationship I was cheated on, my partner at the time had a fling with a co-worker it was a weekend sexual thing. I suspected an emotional thing happening she had started working with him a month prior and he would talk about her alot. I got rid of him and never forgave him, but that's irrelevant the point is at that time and in that particular relationship I was taking him for granted I was emotionally starving him from a healthy connection because I was not 100% about him, i was young and my priorities were different and took him for granted. I know what my part was in pushing him away. He did it to spite me, he told me himself, it was to get back at me for depriving him of my love and though I would NEVER admit to it to him I know what I did to push him away. That doesn't excuse what he did and that's why I never forgave him but I am well aware of my part in it.

 

So I "judge" from experience...50/50%. I have learned from my past mistakes and would not do that ever again to a man, I should reach out and communicate rather than deprive him of what he deserves, OR get out of the relationship.

 

Ah, okay, NOW it makes sense. So your relationship went a certain way and you blamed yourself (seems to me like you could potentially be being rather harsh on yourself there, but many BS do that because blaming ourselves for what went wrong is actually a way of feeling like we have some power over the situation). However, you've come to terms with it, so great.

 

But, how do YOUR past relationship issues have jack to do with someone else's relationship that you were not directly involved in???

 

And yes, I'm all for the reaching out and communicating when things are rocky. It'd be great if the MM did that.

[NoIDidn't]

Wonderful post SM.

[Tomcat33]

Already did that. Could do it again if you like. But why bother? You know what you think about who's responsible.

As for stating an opinion...I'm telling you not to determine what went wrong in their relationship based on what he said. How is that judging anyone's relationship a la pots and kettles? Makes no sense, sorry.

 

 

 

Allow me to rephrase. I am not accusing you of breaking up a marriage BUT I AM accusing you of placing the blame on his wife and not on him. Get it now?

 

 

Yes, my sarcastic "friend," and it also makes perfect sense that I would keep trying to point out to you that you're clarifying something that has nothing to do with what I said. I guess I should just say it again then? I have nothing to say about you and their relationship, and am not blaming you. Please stop responding to what you expect a BS to say and respond to what I'm actually saying.

 

Yes, you have said multiple times, on multiple threads, that you think it's the BS' fault for not paying enough attention to her husband. You also, in another thread, said that you think other BS are responsible, in a general sense, for the same reasons. Oy vey. Why not just own up to your own words? You think it's the BS' fault for neglecting him. You've said it umpteen times. I think that's judgmental and rude. That's the gist of my point here and I don't know why you're arguing with it.

 

 

 

Ah, okay, NOW it makes sense. So your relationship went a certain way and you blamed yourself (seems to me like you could potentially be being rather harsh on yourself there, but many BS do that because blaming ourselves for what went wrong is actually a way of feeling like we have some power over the situation). However, you've come to terms with it, so great.

 

But, how do YOUR past relationship issues have jack to do with someone else's relationship that you were not directly involved in???

 

And yes, I'm all for the reaching out and communicating when things are rocky. It'd be great if the MM did that.

 

 

My past relationships have everything to do with my present, my experiences and what I have lived I use as a roadmap for my future destinations. If I made certain mistakes in the past that I KNOW contributed to the breakdown of said relationships, it is safe to say that if x=y I better damn well not do X unless I wanted to see Y again. I take responsibility for my past mistakes and what I did to contribute to my rel .breakdown.

 

And I don't blame myself to have some power over my past situation I blame myself because I was the contributing factor that pushed the man away, so much so that he acted in the most resentful manner possible, he cheated on me. I had more power in the situation than you wish to give me credit for, after all I WAS with him, that would make me the other half of the equation, no?

 

Yes this may have NOTHING to do with my current MM's marriage, but I've seen enough to be the judge of that myself. moreso than you can see from a computer in god knows where.

 

instead of spending your time arguing nonesense you might try taking the intiative yourself and ask you MM/H why you are not communicating. Instead of waiting around for things to fix themselves you might want to try to lead by example instead of waiting for the change to come from someone else.

[NoIDidn't]

instead of spending your time arguing nonesense you might try taking the intiative yourself and ask you MM/H why you are not communicating. Instead of waiting around for things to fix themselves you might want to try to lead by example instead of waiting for the change to come from someone else.

 

 

Deflected by inserting something into the conversation that has NOTHING to do with what SM was saying.

 

I do love it when an OW that blames the W tries to give marital advice though.

 

[Trialbyfire]

Isn't it usually the responsibility of the one who's dissatisfied, to effectively communicate their level of dissatisfaction? It makes no sense to me that there would be expectations from someone who either doesn't know the problem or doesn't know the level of the problem.

[SoxPrincess]

I didn't want to start another thread asking a new question since all I seem to do is ask questions LOL, but I do have a new one. exMM has continuously tried to get in touch with me the past few weeks; I blocked his email and he PM'd me on a website we used to post on together; I turned off my PM option on that board and he came to a board that only I post on and he PM'd me there; turned off my PM option there and he tried calling and text messaging a few times, so I changed my phone number. I have had zero contact with him from my end in 8 months and I don't plan on it, but as a BS, would you want to know your MM was "at it" again? Is it his responsibility to be honest with his W (yeah right in exMM's case) or is there something I should do or should I keep on doing what I'm doing and just stay out of it completely?