Enema Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 ... these 33 people should die? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266374,00.html Link to post Share on other sites
smile95 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I'm confused...why do you think God said they should die? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Well, he can either stop this sort of thing happening and show that evil deeds are not something he supports, or... he can let it happen and show that he doesn't care about 33 innocents being murdered. So either he doesn't care, or he thinks that they should die. Which is it? Link to post Share on other sites
smile95 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 neither. Most likely, the gunman was not a person that had God in his life. God gives everyone free will to do what they want. he cannot control what we do. This person chose on his own to do this. It has 0 to do with God and 100% to do with this gunmans choice and bad decisions. God did not send him to do this? God never promised us we would live forever or nothing bad would happen to us. He DOES promise that if something does happen, and we are beleivers, we will go to heaven with him and live forever. PS God cannot stop anything from happening? PPS. Do you ever thank God when good things happen on this earth? Or do you just blame him when bad things happen? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 It's quite apparent that god has no influence on anything that happens in the world. Why would I thank him for contributing nothing? If god truly were an omnipotent force of good in the universe, he would stop bad things from happening. That he doesn't do anything because he wants us to have free will seems a very poor way to excuse his inability to have any real effect in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 The better question is this, what are we doing wrong as a society? Why is it that our young men are turning to such violent acts? Is there something wrong in our society that contributes to this kind of horror? My heart goes out to all those that suffered today. Link to post Share on other sites
smile95 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Are you kidding? You really think nothing good happens? And he has no influence? WOW...I can tell God is not in your life. Do you know how many wonderful things go on each day in this world? Just bcz they are not headline news does not mean they do not happen? it is not that he does not do anything bcz he wants us to have free will. He GIVES us free will and it is up to us to make the right choices. Clearly this man was disturbed and needed help. Why would god stop bad things from happening? How would we learn? Again, he never promised ANYONE that bad things would never happen. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 You can't claim one without taking the other. ie. You can't say god is responsible for good things happening without also accepting that god is responsible for bad things happening, as it is in his power to stop them. To quote a cheesy movie line "With great power comes great responsibility". To have the power to stop anything bad from ever happening and to stand by and do nothing, is cruel. If god does exist, he's a twisted bastard masquerading as loving and caring. Link to post Share on other sites
smile95 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I just pointed out the good bcz I am sure you would never start a thread about someting good happening and giving credit to God. But when something bad happens everyone asks "How could He let this happen?" IMO, he IS responsible for the good. He does not promote or encourage or create the bad things. He is not responsible for the bad. The people who do these horrific things are the ones responsible. The people do do wonderful things are responsible for the good things that happen. God works THRUOGH people. Not for bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 That sounds like a cop-out. If god works through people to make good things happen, he should work through people to stop bad things happening. Oh that's right, Free Will? Well, why does he need to work through people to make good things happen? Isn't it their Free Will doing it? Or does god only come into the picture when there is glory to take credit for? Link to post Share on other sites
smile95 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I can tell this is going no where fast. I am sorry you blame God. I guess everyone always needs someone to blame. If I did not have God in my life and I was not aware of the things he has done for me, I would imagine I would feel the same as you do right now. Link to post Share on other sites
LaughMachine Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 God gave us free will and this free will was taken upon the killings of 32 students. This isn't a perfect world, and things like this will always happen. Were screwed from birth, and so were these poor people and their families... But these victims are all in a place in peace.. I'm still sickened by hearing those shots:-( man these poor people and families...such hell Link to post Share on other sites
LaughMachine Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 That sounds like a cop-out. If god works through people to make good things happen, he should work through people to stop bad things happening. Oh that's right, Free Will? Well, why does he need to work through people to make good things happen? Isn't it their Free Will doing it? Or does god only come into the picture when there is glory to take credit for? It's difficult to believe that there is a god controlling all of this. God made man, man sinned from the get go. BLAH BLAH BLAH And sin such as these acts have gotten worse over the years. These acts that keep on happening at schools keep happening because we as a society haven't made any real changes that god wants us to change? that could be another way to look at it.... Link to post Share on other sites
lonelybird Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Who did tolerate perverted porn and agree "as long as they do it behind the door, it is oK", and ignore God's commandments? Who will suffer the consequences? not our own children and own decendants? Who did tolerate the violent media and agree they have their own rights to do so, and ignore God's commandments? Who did all things that only please themselves, and ignore God's commandments? so When bad things happen, now we think about God!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Who did tolerate perverted porn and agree "as long as they do it behind the door, it is oK", and ignore God's commandments? -The "wrongness" of this is debatable Who did tolerate the violent media and agree they have their own rights to do so, and ignore God's commandments? -The "wrongness" of this is debatable Who did all things that only please themselves, and ignore God's commandments? -The "wrongness" of this vague comment is debatable so When bad things happen, now we think about God!!!! - Everyone can agree that the murder of 33 people is wrong. Your god does nothing about it and has never done anything constructive that is verifiable. Maybe he's asleep? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Your god does nothing about it and has never done anything constructive that is verifiable.This is a VERY uneducated hypothesis..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Educate me. Show something constructive god has done that is verifiable. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Educate me. Show something constructive god has done that is verifiable.He allowed you to wake up this morning for one...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Sorry, this time in bold: Show something constructive god has done that is verifiable. Prove it was him and not me. Link to post Share on other sites
LaughMachine Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I know how you feel, I know the bitterness. God can't control what we do as a society he can only give us the gift of free will. This is a physical world where anything can happen. We as people have not taken proper precaution to the safety of students. How can god help mend these crazy physcos. When their thoughts are already made up to kill, with no conscious to feel other wise. God did things to help. A 80 year old teacher held the door shut for a while , while the guy kept trying to come in. She let students escape through the window and got her own life taken away when she could have tried to jump out the window. There is good and evil, and this is just apart of life. You already know this, from 9/11 and all other traumatic things that have happend in this world. For once I kinda think lonelybird had a point haha just playing. Now we talk about god though? Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 You can't claim one without taking the other. ie. You can't say god is responsible for good things happening without also accepting that god is responsible for bad things happening, as it is in his power to stop them. To quote a cheesy movie line "With great power comes great responsibility". To have the power to stop anything bad from ever happening and to stand by and do nothing, is cruel. If god does exist, he's a twisted bastard masquerading as loving and caring. Imagine a world where god DID take an active role in things. Nothing would operate in any way that would could predict. Will this experiment work? Well, I don't know, because if a competitor prayed that mine would fail I'm screwed, or if it worked I wouldn't know if it was because of the phenomena I was testing ro if my prayer was answered. The gas you just bought could turn to sugar. The weight of things would change erratically, cell phones would sometimes work and sometimes not--in essence, the it would be a wacky-cartoon world that you'd never be able to make sense of. And what about all the prayers that counter-act each other? Imagine two boxers, both deeply believing Christians. Each is praying for victory. According to the Bible one need but ask and it will be granted. Both men winning would be impossible. Human beings can be dangerous creatures, obviously. You never know when some guy is going to wig out about his ex-girlfriend, losing his job, or what have you. The only circumstance I could see that would be a problem for believers in this most recent horror is if the shooter maintained that god told him to do this. Believers would say that is impossible, that god would never tell someone to do something like that, but in point of fact other believers think he does, and he has done exactly that in the Bible. That would make things a bit more sticky. As far as god doing good things, he doesn't. It is true that he gets the credit when something "good" happens, but that doesn't mean anything. For example, a woman may be very excited and take it as evidence of god's goodness and blessings when she finds her lost dog, all the while ignoring the believers who starve to death every day, all the while praying for food. To paraphrase Sam Harris, picture the poor old woman who retreated to her attic during Katrina, praying to her invisible friend to save her even as the water rose and drowned her. The question is, why punish the innocent along with the guilty? Does god really think, "Kill'em all, let my son sort them out?" I recall a shooting instance that does make me wonder about the decisions god makes, were he to exist. Several years ago, a man walked into an elementary school and started shooting. One of the teachers was a devout Christian, and was praised for her kindness and deep religious faith by all who knew her. The man came to her room, had all the children sit under the window against the wall, and confronted the teacher, who was praying (and encouraging her students to do the same.) The man put a shotgun to her head and blew her brains out. Then he proceeded to ask each child if they believed in god. Every child who answered "yes" was shot, those that said "no" were spared. Why would god allow this? Here are people specifically asking for his help, and professing belief in him, and that got them killed. In this instance, god could and should have intervened given the promises made in his very own book, but he did nothing. Now, I know that the explanation is that god doesn't exist so there was no presence or being or force that COULD have done anything. It was a horrible, sad thing and try as we might, there is no planning for someone's mind snapping. Isn't that a much easier conclusion? Why jump through impossible rhetorical hoops to maintain a belief for which there is no evidence? Link to post Share on other sites
Reckless Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Enema, If a hijacker took over a plane and flew it into a building would you blame Boeing? Mankind has been given free will, we can do wonderful things or terrible things - often times we do terrible things. R Link to post Share on other sites
Author Enema Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Enema, If a hijacker took over a plane and flew it into a building would you blame Boeing? Mankind has been given free will, we can do wonderful things or terrible things - often times we do terrible things. Why would I blame Boeing? They only made the plane, they didn't have the ability to prevent the crash. God on the otherhand is an awesomely powerful being capable of creating the universe. If anyone could stop it, he could. But he chooses not to. Evidence of free will "gifted" to mankind? Or, as Maoi suggested, does god never do anything simply because he doesn't exist? Isn't the simplest answer most often correct? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Show something constructive god has done that is verifiable.God won't allow me to do that for you. Even if I raised someone from the grave, you wouldn't believe me. BUT I do hope that you'll believe me when I say that YOU, and only you will one day have that verifiable evidence that will convince you, and you will not be able to deny it then. (Same goes for Moai)god could and should have intervened given the promises made in his very own book, but he did nothing. AGAIN, taking things out of context. It has to be God's WILL when we ask Him for intervention. And before you ask, yes, I do believe it was God's will that these people lost their lives. I may not know the why's or how come's......but I believe EVERYTHING happens for His purpose...... Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 holy cow!!! somebody got God to stand still for an interview? all kidding aside, I imagine God is grieving as greatly as the rest of us when one of his beloved children dies ... Link to post Share on other sites
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