Why does god say that....

[Ladyjane14]

I agree with the others who have told you that God doesn't interfere with free will. In my philosophy, corporeal life is a testing ground, experienced for the purification of the soul. You can't perfect yourself if your behavior is mandated.

 

It's a difficult thing sometimes to have faith. But that's why we call it "faith" and not "proof", right?

 

I kind of look at it this way... If I KNEW beyond a shadow of doubt that there was life beyond, if I'd SEEN it with my own eyes and observed it to be WONDERFUL.... then what happens here on Earth is of little consequence. It's like a phase we go through, as the larva stage is to an insect. Why would I be afraid of that?

 

The fact that I have NOT seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I lose NOTHING in having faith. If I die and there's nothing there, what the heck...I'll never know it.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Then he proceeded to ask each child if they believed in god. Every child who answered "yes" was shot, those that said "no" were spared. Why would god allow this? Here are people specifically asking for his help, and professing belief in him, and that got them killed. In this instance, god could and should have intervened given the promises made in his very own book, but he did nothing.

 

Matthew 24:9

 

"Then you will be arrested, perscuted and killed. You will be hated all over the world because of your alliance to me"

 

 

 

 

Why jump through impossible rhetorical hoops to maintain a belief for which there is no evidence?

 

Its called faith.

 

 

 

As hard as it is for me to accept this free will, I have no choice. I have struggled with this ever since I accepted Christ back into my life. I wonder WHY we, me, have to endure suffering. As humans, we all suffer at some point or another. But I believe now its due to our OWN FREE WILL that he gave us.

 

He know in the beginning that humans could not help but sin. He made us in his image....which IMO is not what we consider our looks. I believe that HIS IMAGE is the spirit or soul with in us...our conscience so to speak.

 

God has free will and he gave it to us. He gave it to us so that we have the tools to do the right thing. The problem is, we take the free will and do what ever we want.

 

Thats the crux isnt it? We gave us the rules to live by, but also said, oh here is some free will....but I hope you do the right thing.

 

The fact is God isnt going to stop earthquakes, he set the world in motion and his design allows for the surface of the earth to move around which happens to lead to earthquakes.

 

He wont stop wars, becasue he gave us the free will to stop them ourselves.

 

Hes not going to stop the student from shooting 30 people, becasue he gave that student free will to do what he wants. And if that student choose to murder inocent people, then that student will be held accountable.

 

Now the inocent students that died....yes its unfortunate and sad. I really feel horrible for the families. BUT we nor He could have stopped what one single person was going to do.

 

 

IMO....the purpose of God is to give us LOVE, HOPE and FAITH. Thats it.

 

If we have love within us, but we dont give it to others, then whos to blame.

 

If we know, through the spirit/conscience that murder is wrong and against his will of LOVE, but we choose to murder anyway, that was our choice do to free will. Of course he doesnt want us to murder...but he aint going to stop us either because he gave us the tools to do the right thing...but we can do the opposite if we choose too.

 

yeah, it sounds F-ed up, I know. I struggle with it believe me.

 

But everyday, we have a choice....follow the gifts of LOVE HOPE and FAITH....or follow our own selfish desires.

 

its not easy being a human with free will and faith in Christ. Everyday i tell myself this:

 

ITS NOT ABOUT ME. ITS ABOUT WHAT I CAN DO FOR OTHERS

[quankanne]

And before you ask, yes, I do believe it was God's will that these people lost their lives. I may not know the why's or how come's......but I believe EVERYTHING happens for His purpose......

 

this is so true. I don't know why someone had so much hatred that they created the IED that took my nephew's life, but I like to think that because of Willy's devotion to his job as a soldier, a lot of Iraqi people got to live a little bit more safely that day.

 

Did God kill my nephew? No, that was the bonehead who created that bomb.

 

Could He have saved him from death? Possibly, but that could only have happened through a conversion of hearts in the people who perpetuate acts of fatal violence.

 

I don't blame God for my nephew's senseless death, because how can someone who is capable of giving our family such a precious gift as Willy want to harm him?

[ThumbingMyWay]

The fact that I have NOT seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And I lose NOTHING in having faith. If I die and there's nothing there, what the heck...I'll never know it.

 

exactly

 

not sure of the verse...but

 

"blessed are those who have seen and believe. But blessed are also those who have NOT seen, yet still beleive.

[smile95]

so When bad things happen, now we think about God!!!! - Everyone can agree that the murder of 33 people is wrong. Your god does nothing about it and has never done anything constructive that is verifiable. Maybe he's asleep?

 

Maybe you think the above, but 90 something % of the world does not think of God when bad things happen.

[Moai]

so When bad things happen, now we think about God!!!! - Everyone can agree that the murder of 33 people is wrong. Your god does nothing about it and has never done anything constructive that is verifiable. Maybe he's asleep?

 

Maybe you think the above, but 90 something % of the world does not think of God when bad things happen.

 

The number of people who believe something does not make it true. That is what is known as an Argument Ad Populum fallacy.

[smile95]

I was not saying it was true bcz so many believe, I was saying she is one of very few that look to God and blame him for bad things.

[pricillia]

I believe that you can not have good without evil...

 

This thread is just mocking religion in a way to control reactions and get attention.

 

If the original poster is honestly pondering why this happened then she needs to find more about the shooters background and what led up to his horrible decision reguarding killing 20 people.

 

What is this persons religious BR and even if he did have "GOD" in his life the result could have been the same, he could have used religion as an excuse.

 

The gunmans mind was not healthy or he would have not rationally done what he did.

[nittygritty]

Enema, I can't distinguish from your posts whether your trying to sound like your an athiest or an agnostic but if you truly do not believe there is a God, why are you so angry with him?

 

Your trying to blame a God you say doesn't exist for not preventing a human from killing 32 people and then committing suicide yesterday. Rather than the possibility that God saved 32 people yesterday from a human shooting at them and they are with him now and no longer suffering from the things we endure in our lives on earth.

[boshemia]

This issue can be debated until the end of time (and probably will be) and there will never be a clear winner. Everyone has their own moral compass, and as such their own "true north" even if you can come to an agreement on what map to use, nobody is going to end up in the same place starting with different points.

 

We have no solid answers, only more questions, and each one of us must come up with our own answers based on what we believe. When someone asks a question about how God can allow innocent people to die, you will end up with a multitude of answers.

 

1. That there is no God and the death of 32 innocent people proves this.

2. That there is no God and the heroism and kindness that took place in the midst of tragedy proves there is no need for one.

3. That there is no God, and no significance in anything, life itself is random.

4. That there is a God, and he led people to exactly where he needed him to be that day. Some overslept, some couldn't get their car started, some managed to escape in time, and some gave their lives to save others. Still others were called home for reasons only God understands.

5. That there is a God, and this was somehow a judgement from him against the immorality of College Life or some other moral violation.

6. Enter your belief system here...

 

It could go on and on and on... I can't tell you right or wrong, I have no direct line to God that will allow me to give you an explanation of his will in this or any other situation. All I know is what I believe...

 

If I were to imagine God in heaven at this very moment I would see him through my own eyes.

 

As a parent I know that I want the very best for my children, I want nothing more for them than to be happy and healthy. To live long full and joyous lives. In order for them to grow into a mature adulthood I must give them both roots and wings. I must allow them the freedom to make their own choices, and allow them to experience the consequences for those actions. As much as I want to keep them from harm, I have very little control over their choices in life. All I can really do is hope that my influence on them has equipped them to deal with things properly when the time comes.

 

As a parent one of the most frustrating things I have come across isn't raising my own children, but the influence of other parents on their children and those children's influence on my own. I can teach my children not to drink and drive, but I can't stop another child from driving drunk and causing an accident that can hurt or kill my children. I can teach them to stay away from guns, but I can't keep another child from picking up a gun and shooting them.

 

So as I stop and imagine God in heaven at this very moment I can't help but see a parent. Not mourning the loss of 1 child, but of 33. Some of those children listened to him and lived their lives by the guidance he provided. Others had gone their own way and were trying to figure things out on their own, they just didn't need him anymore. Some of them never knew him as their Father, but he loved them no less. And one... One of them he saw sneaking into a building with a gun in his hand.

 

Did he cry out to this child, beg him to stop? I would have.

Did he hide his eyes when the first shot rang out? I would have.

Did he whisper to his other children and try to get them out of harms way? I would have.

Can I stop one of my children from doing something dangerous and stupid? I wish I could, but I can't. Like screaming at a toddler running into the street as a semi speeds towards them, in the end they are in control and all we can do is watch in horror.

 

I cannot tell you what God was doing and thinking at the time. If you don't believe in God, I can't change your mind... all I can really do is offer you my belief. My belief is that God is mourning this tragedy along with us, if he could have stopped it he would have. I believe he cried out that morning, some heard him and others did not.

 

I believe that there has been enough pain and suffering for now, and in the end it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves what we do and don't believe about God or a lack of. I don't think it matters what any of us believe at this moment in time, as long as we can agree that a tragedy is a tragedy and that nobody deserved to die in such a horiffic manner.

[DutchGuy]

Are you kidding? You really think nothing good happens? And he has no influence? WOW...I can tell God is not in your life.

 

Do you know how many wonderful things go on each day in this world? Just bcz they are not headline news does not mean they do not happen?

 

it is not that he does not do anything bcz he wants us to have free will. He GIVES us free will and it is up to us to make the right choices. Clearly this man was disturbed and needed help.

 

Why would god stop bad things from happening? How would we learn? Again, he never promised ANYONE that bad things would never happen.

 

So if a christian has a wonderfull relationship it's a blessing from god and if a tsunami kills thousands of people it's to make us be more appreciative towards god?

[lonelybird]

So if a christian has a wonderfull relationship it's a blessing from god and if a tsunami kills thousands of people it's to make us be more appreciative towards god?

that means IN SPITE OF bad things happen, we still can have hope, God give us hope, we still can see good stuff and positive things. rather than complain and blame. NOthing can effect our destiny! we are going to heaven where is much better than here. Here is a test field where refine us spiritually. flesh is temporary, but soul is forever. Heaven is very beautiful.

[DutchGuy]

that means IN SPITE OF bad things happen, we still can have hope, God give us hope, we still can see good stuff and positive things. rather than complain and blame. NOthing can effect our destiny! we are going to heaven where is much better than here. Here is a test field where refine us spiritually. flesh is temporary, but soul is forever. Heaven is very beautiful.

 

I think religious people aren't critical enough.

You read the good as blessings and the bad as destiny.

The same things that happen to religious people, happen to atheists.

It's pretty easy to regard your god as omnipotent if he doesn't do anything.

Look at religious countries like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Israel, can you honestly say that all their devotion accounts for something?

If any, it accounts for the negative.

[lonelybird]

I think religious people aren't critical enough.

You read the good as blessings and the bad as destiny.

The same things that happen to religious people, happen to atheists.

It's pretty easy to regard your god as omnipotent if he doesn't do anything.

Look at religious countries like Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Israel, can you honestly say that all their devotion accounts for something?

If any, it accounts for the negative.

No, when I say destiny, I meant we are children of God, after we die here, we go to heaven. as believers we know this. and Holy Spirit communicate with us daily. Do you know Holy Spirit?

 

I didn't mean all religions are right one, most of them mislead people

[Moose]

You read the good as blessings and the bad as destiny.

The only time this statement is brought up is when there is a loss of life.

 

To a believer, we know that this life is, "but a vapor".

 

What we're experiencing, in the 80-90 some odd years a healthy person has on this Earth..... is nothing compared to eternal life.

 

We'll also understand ALL of the why's, and how come's once we pass from here to there.

 

I'm sure there were many saved and unsaved that lost their lives in the shooting. And I also think of those kids who were killed for professing Jesus, and those spared.

 

The ones who were saved and lost their lives are better off at home with Christ.

 

The ones who were lost and died, are eternally seperated from Christ.

 

BUT, those who are lost, and lived through this horrible tragedy, may come to know Him, and that is one of the ways God can turn a terrible act into an opportunity of a lifetime.

[a4a]

No, when I say destiny, I meant we are children of God, after we die here, we go to heaven. as believers we know this. and Holy Spirit communicate with us daily. Do you know Holy Spirit?

 

I didn't mean all religions are right one, most of them mislead people

 

 

Yes indeed.... perhaps you should really really think about that.

[Enema]

No no, she chose the one out of thousands of religions that doesn't mislead people.

 

Sheeshk!

[DutchGuy]

Yes indeed.... perhaps you should really really think about that.

 

They all prey on the desperate, the sick, the lonely, the suffering, the weak, the retarded.

Everytime I read religious topics on fora I hear people about god, lot's of 'em ex-junkies, criminals, screw-ups.

Those people need to tell themselves that god has forgiven them, and that for anything they are now even better than most people because of their beliefs.

When I read the comments of non-believers they are often well-read, enlightened people, succesful in life.

They don't need the pathetic-mans-heroin: "god".

 

It also amazes me how people can claim they believe in god and laugh away the greek gods, the roman gods, the celtic gods and so on.

[Moose]

They all prey on the desperate, the sick, the lonely, the suffering, the weak, the retarded.

I wouldn't call it, "preying". I would call it sharing. Most of the people you've listed are reaching for something that will save them from their situation. 99% of the time, THEY, are the ones SEEKING. Most believers don't go out, "huntin'" for these people. 9 times out of 10, (if we're doing our jobs right), they'll seek us.

Everytime I read religious topics on fora I hear people about god, lot's of 'em ex-junkies, criminals, screw-ups.

And why do you think that is? They're trying to point out to the rest of the world what, or more accurately, WHO changed their lives.

Those people need to tell themselves that god has forgiven them, and that for anything they are now even better than most people because of their beliefs.

A true believer would KNOW that he/she is NO better than the next guy......

When I read the comments of non-believers they are often well-read, enlightened people, succesful in life.

Until they lose everything. Then they just curse God. A God that they didn't even believe in before they were stripped of their wealth, or problems hit close to home.

They don't need the pathetic-mans-heroin: "god".

So I'm a pathetic man? Well......many would beg to differ my friend.

It also amazes me how people can claim they believe in god and laugh away the greek gods, the roman gods, the celtic gods and so on.

I don't see why. Don't you understand, there is, and can be only ONE TRUE God.

[DutchGuy]

Don't you understand, there is, and can be only ONE TRUE God.

 

And what makes your god the true one then?

 

And please don't claim you've spoken to the guy.

[Enema]

Is that Buddha or Allah?

[Moose]

And what makes your god the true one then?

Ummm let's see......because HE said so.....didn't you listen to what I just typed? I believe there IS only one God. There is no, "my" God, or, "your" God. There is just God.

And please don't claim you've spoken to the guy.

Of course, why not ignore the OBVIOUS??? What would be funny is if I had claimed God has spoken to me......

Is that Buddha or Allah?

I prefer Elohim.....thank you very much!

[Topper]

Moose are you a Canaanite? Elohim has one definition that refers to the whole Parthenon of Canaanite gods.

It is also a common word used by the Mormons they define it as God the father. could also mean Creator God. It can also mean Sons of God. or even many gods. It is one of those old hebrew words that needs to be defined by the words around it. In the Hebrew Bible Moses and Aaron are refered to as Elohim. In the context I would take that to mean son of God.

Not being a jerk here just pointing out one of the many names used to define God in the Hebrew Bible. It is no wounder that Rabbies have been studiing these text for thousands of years and debating their meanings.

[Moose]

Moose are you a Canaanite? Elohim has one definition that refers to the whole Parthenon of Canaanite gods.

It is also a common word used by the Mormons they define it as God the father. could also mean Creator God. It can also mean Sons of God. or even many gods. It is one of those old hebrew words that needs to be defined by the words around it. In the Hebrew Bible Moses and Aaron are refered to as Elohim. In the context I would take that to mean son of God.

Not being a jerk here just pointing out one of the many names used to define God in the Hebrew Bible. It is no wounder that Rabbies have been studiing these text for thousands of years and debating their meanings.

Over-analyzing causes fallacies, BUT here is the context in which I am referring to: 'ELOHIM; 'AH_VAH is the ONE TRUE GOD OF ETERNITIES, the MOTHER*FATHER OF CREATION, ETERNAL PARENT-CHILD, CHILD/APPARENT, the DIVINE NO*THING , the DIVINE IT, called, in the proper frame of understanding and spirit, as "THOU", virtually beyond all human grasp, comprehension, and understanding, the ONE ETERNAL TRUTH, the CREATIVE THOUGHT underlying everything, the ETERNAL MIND of universes and beyond, WHO / THAT which brings forth all things living, WHO belongs to ETERNITY and brings forth all LIFE in every thing.

[Love Hurts]

... these 33 people should die?

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266374,00.html

 

Don’t tell me God told and tells our soldiers to torture innocent inmates in a hell called Abu Graib.

 

Your statement is a copout of human flesh and mental insanity at work.

As depicted in the shootings of these students and the torture of Abu Graib.

 

This is the work of human flesh encompassing a black heart and a sick mind....period!