Salvation is one time deal?

[lonelybird]

I think there are many Christians, who were water baptised when they were babies, THINK they get the soul salvation.

 

Maybe many of them think it is one time deal: get water baptised, then go their own merit ways, and stop reading Bible, stop listening to God, stop obeying the commandments. or even don't know what are commandments of God!

 

Maybe some even think born in a Christian family can bring salvation to them?

 

Well, according to Bible, one must be spiritual born-again to get the soul salvation. and should obey Lord's commandments, and led by spirit on a daily basis

 

After baptised by Holy Spirit, we still sin from time to time, Lord knew this and would forgive us, but we have to decide to obey Lord and Holy Spirit, and decide NOT to continue to sin. Sometimes people say "Jesus died on cross for us, so we can do whatever we want". Well, that's not true.

 

Matthew 7:21 Self-Deception

"Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father in heaven.

 

So, were you baptised by Holy Spirit? and constantly obey Him?

It is time to return to Lord again.

[quankanne]

I think there's a huge misunderstanding about infant baptism, which is what Catholic and mainline Protestant (like Lutheran) churches practice. It's not that we dip a baby then leave it to it's own defenses ... infant baptism rinses the stain of original sin from the child and bring him or her into full communion with the Body of Christ, all based on the stong faith the family and the church community has in the risen Lord.

 

not sure if these Protestant churches who do this also have other sacraments similar to what we do in the Catholic faith, but when a Catholic child is baptized, he is catechized in the faith, learning about God and Jesus and the Church. Age seven is considered the age of reason, and in the normal course of things, this is when said child begins preparing to make reconciliation for the first time, then will receive the Eucharist – which Catholics believe is the Body and Blood of Christ. The child still undergoes faith formation, and when he is about 12 or 13, he begins preparing for Confirmation, another sacrament which, I'm guessing could be understood by Protestants as a kind of altar call, where the child confirms his belief in Christ and dedicates his life to Christ.

 

sadly, we often lose them after Confirmation, because the parents have a mindset that it's a "graduation" of sorts from catechism, but the truth is, learning about your faith is a lifelong thing ... there are a number of cradle Catholics who really don't participate in their faith until they've married and started families of their own, and they realize just how important it is to impart the faith to their kids, and get their babies baptized.

 

so really, infant baptism isn't invalid, even though it would seem that it's being chosen for the child – Catholic parents and church community do their best to prepare him/her for the ultimate meeting of Christ in the Eucharist, for which there is no limit to receive once the child has made his/her first Communion.

 

does this mean a baptized infant isn't saved, even though God promises salvation is for all? There's a Bible passage, I don't remember where it is, but it deals with the man who asks Christ to heal his servant, who is deathly ill. Even though the servant isn't present, Jesus still heals him, because the man's faith was strong enough to act as intercessory for the servant. Infant baptism is like that – the strength of faith of the community serves as intercessory for that baby.

[quankanne]

it worries me when people of faith DON'T baptize their babies. Because if we do this to wipe away the stain of original sin AND to bring those little ones into to communion with the Body of Christ, what does it mean when they're left to float all their lives? What happens when a child of seven or 13 dies without making that profession of faith? Is there a grandfather clause that assures them the grace of heaven? If you have faith in that GF clause, why is it so wrong to have the same faith when we baptize babies?

 

these questions aren't to invite argument, but to better understand why people would leave their kids spiritually unprotected, all in the name of "free will" ...

[nittygritty]

lonelybird, your adding your own personal beliefs and interpretations of the bible and stating it as fact.

 

I am a christian, I have attended churches that try to bring people to christ by focusing on peoples fear of being eternally damned to hell and I have attended churches that bring people to christ by focusing on God's love and forgiveness.

 

I use the bible as my guide but I also understand that it has been translated from other dialects and sometimes translated words can change the meaning of the text.

 

I personally believe that the inspired writings were sometimes the interpretations of people in a more primitive time and that harsh examples were used so that future generations could try to have some understanding. But I think that God did not expect people to stay primitive, that he created primitive beings capable of evolving and that he gave us a brain capable of learning and questioning and I think that he expects us to use are minds for the good of society.

 

I also believe what is written as Jesus's word in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life." but that is my personal religious beliefs.

 

What you call speaking with the Holy Spirit, I might call a conscience and even though I have never spoken in tongues or been knocked down or filled with the Holy Spirit and it all just looks like a freakshow to me if I see it on TV it doesn't mean people don't experience it or believe its happening.

 

Just because I don't worship at a church or share the same beliefs as you or someone else does not make me or you right.

 

I would never assume to know who is going to heaven or hell and I don't believe that you know either.

[ThumbingMyWay]

So, were you baptised by Holy Spirit? and constantly obey Him?

 

 

I was baptised as a baby...so IMO that counts for me. Have I been "born again" later in my life, meaning, have I done a second traditional NEW baptisism. No I havent. BUT I did have a VERY moving spiritaul moment when I SCREAMED out for Christ to help me in my time of need.....and he came into me again....or should I say....i was humble enough to let him take over....

 

Do I obey him constantly? No I dont....but he's always in my ear makeing sure I a TRY to do the right thing. There is NO ONE CHRISTIAN ON THIS EARTH that can say they obey all the time.....just wont happen....this free will is WAY to powerful for the human NOT to go against His will in heaven. We try, but the human being likes "things" and "sex" too much... but we try....we try every day to walk the straight path....

 

Well, according to Bible, one must be spiritual born-again to get the soul salvation. and should obey Lord's commandments, and led by spirit on a daily basis

 

So what do you have to do to be re-born again?. I thought that its as simple as asking Jesus to come into you heart and lead you. You give youself to him....become humble and let go.

 

After baptised by Holy Spirit, we still sin from time to time, Lord knew this and would forgive us, but we have to decide to obey Lord and Holy Spirit, and decide NOT to continue to sin. Sometimes people say "Jesus died on cross for us, so we can do whatever we want". Well, that's not true.

 

Yes we still sin...and we all will, everyday...I know i do....but it doesnt mean I am using Jesus as a "get out of Hell free card". I know i sin....I tell white lies....I take pens and paper from work....I have lust in my mind on a hourly basis...

 

BUT...what I also have is constant council from the Holy Spirit. He lives with in me...its almost like...my conscience is more in control of me than my brain is...Meaning...its like I have my body, my brain....but the 3rd party who has taken up residence has great influence on the choices my brain and body choose to do.

 

Am I perfect.....*** no...Sometimes my human attributes slip one by the big man.....hence I sin.....but i always have to fess up internally....

 

 

I guess I look at it this way. When I die and go meet my creator and hear my jugdement.......I know that my sins will be brought up in the meeting and I am sure we will need a coffee break before we get to the end...

 

But i also know...that my judgement will be power weighted by what He thinks the attitude of my heart is. I may sin....but I will be judged on the attitude of my heart....and IMO....I think I am on the right path....I got a long way to go....and by no means am I in the fast lane to heaven....But I think by being humble and letting the Spirit advise my choices...I think i am at least heading in the right direction to heavenly salvation....

[quankanne]

So what do you have to do to be re-born again?. I thought that its as simple as asking Jesus to come into you heart and lead you. You give youself to him....become humble and let go.

 

myself, I've always thought that the spiritual journey was constantly filled with conversions of heart, ever leading back to God. Those would be considered re-births, wouldn't they, because you're casting aside your sinful ways to follow Christ?

[ThumbingMyWay]

[myself, I've always thought that the spiritual journey was constantly filled with conversions of heart, ever leading back to God. Those would be considered re-births, wouldn't they, because you're casting aside your sinful ways to follow Christ?

 

I agree....being a Christian (to me) means I accept that fact that I will sin....its quite ineveitable...but I also know that I will always comeback for guidance....its a daily way of life....I screw up everyday...

 

 

 

like the other day when leaving an establishment....I was in a hurry, i walked out the door.....i got 2 steps out and was going to the right.....now in the corner of my eye, I see a handicapped man about 7 steps from the door....he had a hard time walking, but he managed. Now in that instant in time...that split second...I first thought of myself and my schedule....but in an instant.....the spirit stepped in....

 

I stopped, turned around and went back to hold the door open for this guy. took him 10 seconds to make the few steps....but he was appcrciated of it.

 

I guess what I am saying is....in the past....i could care less about holding a door open....people have arms right?..but now....its like i dont even have control....its like its becoming automatic to help people just becasue i can....

[corazoncito]

it worries me when people of faith DON'T baptize their babies. Because if we do this to wipe away the stain of original sin AND to bring those little ones into to communion with the Body of Christ, what does it mean when they're left to float all their lives? What happens when a child of seven or 13 dies without making that profession of faith? Is there a grandfather clause that assures them the grace of heaven? If you have faith in that GF clause, why is it so wrong to have the same faith when we baptize babies?

 

I am not really the right person to answer this because although I was raised in the Catholic tradition (sort of) I was never baptised, and I have never been a religious person.

 

But I dated a Baptist at one point. I talked to him a little about the practices in his church and he said that although each individual must ask for baptism himself, almost all parents bring their infants to the church for a ceremony that "dedicates" them to the church and to God. This happens at the same time a christening would occur for Catholic babies. I'm not really sure of the details, other than that the parents speak for the child (I'm not sure if there are godparents). I don't know if this ritual assures them the grace of heaven since they aren't actually baptized, but I gather that's the point. So I guess they do have something similar(ish) to the sacraments of baptism and confirmation, but they do them in the reversed order (if that makes sense).

[ThumbingMyWay]

What happens when a child of seven or 13 dies without making that profession of faith? Is there a grandfather clause that assures them the grace of heaven?

 

Matthew 18:3

 

And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

 

Matthew 19:13-14

 

Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them. Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

 

 

I think all children who die BEFORE they understand what He is...will go to heaven....

[quankanne]

if this is a universal hope/belief, then why is infant baptism, based on that same strength of belief, such a bad thing? :confused:

[ThumbingMyWay]

if this is a universal hope/belief, then why is infant baptism, based on that same strength of belief, such a bad thing? :confused:

 

I dont think it is a bad thing. Even if you DONT believe....I would still baptise the child.....I mean what will it hurt? if there is no afterlife, its not like being baptised would change that.

 

 

The issue with baptism is......we as the parents and the god parents make a verbal promise to teach the child about Christ. The sad thing is...most parents have there kids baptised but dont follow through on the promise....its easier for them to say go play your PS3 so I can be a kitchen chicken and bash your father for not changing the light bulb.

[quankanne]

:lmao: kitchen chicken!

 

though in all honesty, people tend to think one dip'll do, instead of realizing that faith education is an ongoing thing ...

[lonelybird]

lonelybird, your adding your own personal beliefs and interpretations of the bible and stating it as fact.

 

I am a christian, I have attended churches that try to bring people to christ by focusing on peoples fear of being eternally damned to hell and I have attended churches that bring people to christ by focusing on God's love and forgiveness.

 

I use the bible as my guide but I also understand that it has been translated from other dialects and sometimes translated words can change the meaning of the text.

 

I personally believe that the inspired writings were sometimes the interpretations of people in a more primitive time and that harsh examples were used so that future generations could try to have some understanding. But I think that God did not expect people to stay primitive, that he created primitive beings capable of evolving and that he gave us a brain capable of learning and questioning and I think that he expects us to use are minds for the good of society.

 

I also believe what is written as Jesus's word in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life." but that is my personal religious beliefs.

 

What you call speaking with the Holy Spirit, I might call a conscience and even though I have never spoken in tongues or been knocked down or filled with the Holy Spirit and it all just looks like a freakshow to me if I see it on TV it doesn't mean people don't experience it or believe its happening.

 

Just because I don't worship at a church or share the same beliefs as you or someone else does not make me or you right.

 

I would never assume to know who is going to heaven or hell and I don't believe that you know either.

I don't think baby baptise is a bad thing IF people don't mistakenly think they get salvation only because they was baptised as a baby. It is the misunderstanding of these kind which make people fall. What if they embrace this idea in their whole life and after death they found they aren't in heaven?

 

Quote: I think that God did not expect people to stay primitive

 

This is people's imagination or excuses to not follow the Bible.

So many Holy Spirit filled people keep saying "God doesn't change, Bible doesn't change, commandments are today same as yesterday". No one can add and remove any words in the Bible. Do you think God adapt to our standards or we adapt God's stantard? God's commandments do NOT change, if change, it will be higher, not lower:p Think about that, after thousands of years, people are same, human natures are same, then why commandments change?

 

Quote: I also believe what is written as Jesus's word in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not parish but have eternal life." but that is my personal religious beliefs.

 

Jesus said many things, shouldn't we give them same weight, and not ignore others?

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and don’t do what I tell you?

 

6:47 “Everyone who comes to me and listens to my words and puts them into practice – I will show you what he is like:

 

6:48 He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep, and laid the foundation on bedrock. When a flood came, the river burst against that house but could not shake it, because it had been well built.

 

6:49 But the person who hears and does not put my words into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against that house, it collapsed immediately, and was utterly destroyed!”

 

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, “If you continue in my word, you are really my disciples

8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

John 8: 51 Very truly, I tell you, whoever keeps my word will never see death."

 

John 13:15 For I have given you an example – you should do just as I have done for you.

13:16 I tell you the solemn truth, the slave is not greater than his master, nor is the one who is sent as a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

13:17 If you understand these things, you will be blessed if you do them

 

14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.

14:24 The person who does not love me does not obey my words. And the word you hear is not mine, but the Father’s who sent me.

 

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven – only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

 

I don't know who can go to heaven, but I know HOW TO, just do as Bible says, and DON'T just pick one smart part out of it:

Accept Jesus Christ as our savior in our heart and believe in Him, baptised by Holy Spirit

 

REPENT (means not want to continue the old way, change into Lord's way, .....)

 

Obey his commandments, (led by Spirit, not flesh)

 

After baptised by Holy Spirit, we still fail Lord from time to time, yes, we all do. But to keep close personal relationship with Lord can very ensure us on right track, we may fail, but we will come back again BECAUSE Lord is with us. He knew we will sin. He forgive us, but we should listen to Him and obey Him

 

we shouldn't think we can continue to sin without taking any responsilities because Jesus died for us:eek: . Many people do think this way. Sometimes the sin and our attitude can effect our salvation. Check out the verses.

[Island Girl]

God has already decided who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell in your religion lonelybird.

 

Romans:

 

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

 

9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

 

9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

 

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 

9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

[lonelybird]

God has already decided who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell in your religion lonelybird.

 

Romans:

 

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

 

9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

 

9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 

9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

 

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 

9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Do you remember the woman who cried out to Jesus to save her daughter? Did she know if she was chosen by God or not? no, she didn't know. if she think like you, probably she would not do anything. but she had strong faith in Jesus, so her daughter got healed.

This point you mentioned before again and again, it is an exuse. Hope we don't start it again.

[Island Girl]

Do you remember the woman who cried out to Jesus to save her daughter? Did she know if she was chosen by God or not? no, she didn't know. if she think like you, probably she would not do anything. but she had strong faith in Jesus, so her daughter got healed.

This point you mentioned before again and again, it is an exuse. Hope we don't start it again.

 

I quoted the bible lonelybird.

 

It is not what I think.

 

It is the word of your God written in your book.

 

Like it or not that is what HE says --- not me.

[lonelybird]

I quoted the bible lonelybird.

 

It is not what I think.

 

It is the word of your God written in your book.

 

Like it or not that is what HE says --- not me.

You believe whatever you want to believe. I hope you have no regret

[Island Girl]

You believe whatever you want to believe. I hope you have no regret

 

Again --- it is not my belief.

 

It is what the bible says.

 

If you don't believe in the whole book, you don't get to pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and what parts you don't. At least according to your God.

 

-- I am not the one you have to worry about am I?

 

Didn't God have something to say about that as well? --- Adding to and taking away from the bible is not to be done by anyone. I think that would include you.

 

You want to believe -- you're the one that has to swallow the whole pill - not just the parts you like.

 

Those are His rules. Not mine.

[lonelybird]

Again --- it is not my belief.

 

It is what the bible says.

 

If you don't believe in the whole book, you don't get to pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to believe and what parts you don't. At least according to your God.

 

-- I am not the one you have to worry about am I?

 

Didn't God have something to say about that as well? --- Adding to and taking away from the bible is not to be done by anyone. I think that would include you.

 

You want to believe -- you're the one that has to swallow the whole pill - not just the parts you like.

 

Those are His rules. Not mine.

Yes, I believe the whole Bible.

 

Other than that I have nothing say to you

[Island Girl]

Yes, I believe the whole Bible.

 

Then why do you disagree so vehemently with the quote from the bible that I posted?

 

Must not know it all -- study it all -- or you presume to take what you want and blow by the things you don't.

 

God says not to do that.

 

I hope you don't have regrets. tsk tsk.

[lonelybird]

John 6:37 ...and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away

[nittygritty]

lonelybird, Luke 23:32-43 doesn't mention any baptism of the criminal.

 

I don't know the significance of whether a baptism should take place at birth, the age of reason or if it is even necessary at all in order to go to heaven.

[lonelybird]

lonelybird, Luke 23:32-43 doesn't mention any baptism of the criminal.

 

I don't know the significance of whether a baptism should take place at birth, the age of reason or if it is even necessary at all in order to go to heaven.

Jesus has direct authority to say who go to heaven. If he said the criminal go to heaven, then the criminal went. But nowadays we cannot like that criminal face to face with Jesus, we know we get saved by FAITH and by being slave of Holy Spirit who is sent by God.

 

I don't know if water baptism is essential or not, but Holy Spirit baptism is essential, just like the Bible said (born above). They are different. Cleansing is a inward thing rather than a outward thing.

[Love Hurts]

Quickly adding my most probable unvalued opinion; with out reading all…

We can be baptized in earthly water and still end up in hell.

 

Jesus baptized not of water but of the Holy Spirit.

 

We can be baptized of Holy Spirit and go to Heaven.

 

We can be baptized of earthly water and go to hell.

 

One saves one does not…

 

 

 

God Bless

[Fun2BMe]

infant baptism rinses the stain of original sin from the child

 

I forget where in the bible it says that babies are born with sin. Can someone site it?