No Contact? I WISH I had that luxury!

[Sk8away]

My original reason for joining LS was complicated and painful, and I had to face up to ALOT of home truths.

I wasn't too embarassed or overwhelmed to share it with my friends and family, quite the contrary, however LS gave me MANY different points of view, and I found that fantastic.

And I have healed, and moved on with my life, and have just as much right to offer my POV in this forum as anyone else. So thanks for judging me!

 

I apologise re: divorce mistake, the post was so long, it was tough to remember all the details without going back thru it again. I do remember you saying you had parted ways with your husband am I right?

 

Hey SB,

 

I don't know your story, but I'm genuinely sorry for your pain.I'm glad you've healed and moved on, and that LS helped you along the way. I admire your candidness for posting what you wrote above.

 

Please don't think I was judging you. I guess I felt your remarks were a little harsh and therefore got a little defensive.

 

And yes, my husband and I have separated.

[Sk8away]

A few more more things-

 

You are new, so you might not know, but there have been cases of people making up elaborate stories on here, getting a whole lot of sympathetic people on board for weeks (me included) and then it turns out it was all a big hoax, and the OP laughed at all of us for being sucked in.

 

And "trolls" happen now and then, who post once, get everyone else arguing, and never come back to post. So that wasn't an insult per se.

I can see you aren't a troll now.

 

Also- POV that can be perceived as judgemental is par for the course here. You do have to accept that not everyone will see it as you do, and others may say things you think to be harsh.

 

Finally, if you read some of my other posts, you will see that I can empathise as well as the next person. Its all there laid bare for you to see- so maybe do that before you judge me.

 

I hope the situation comes to a satisfactory conclusion for you.

 

Thanks for clarifying, SB. I think I can understand some of the earlier skepticism I encountered in these posts. It's funny, but when I posted my situation, it never crossed my mind that anyone would think I'd made it up.

What would be the point of making up such a bizarre story--or my equally bizarre reaction to the whole situation?

 

Any yes, I did expect to see harsh and even some unsympathetic comments. I just never expected that people would think I'd made it all up!

[Sk8away]

Original poster, the problem here is that you are extremely jealous that he found someone to date that he wants to spend significant time with and it's driving you crazy. You say it's weird that he walks in and out of the building....well there's no way he can plan that,hon. He's not stalking you, he's living his life. If he runs into you, whatever, he's not going to change his day to arrange to not run into you, why should he, you're a married woman who just happens to live in the same bldg. as his girlfriend. He's not dating her to get you jealous or anything, you are deluding yourself that his actions of dating her and being around the building to be with his girlfriend have anything to do with you and they don't. You are not the center of his world, she is, sorry, get over yourself.

 

Whoa! Well, you certainly have attributed the meanest and most nefarious motives to me. Just the same, I don't think I need to defend myself to someone who likes to post on these boards only because they enjoy kicking other people to the curb!

[sb129]

Hey SB,

 

I don't know your story, but I'm genuinely sorry for your pain.I'm glad you've healed and moved on, and that LS helped you along the way. I admire your candidness for posting what you wrote above.

 

Please don't think I was judging you. I guess I felt your remarks were a little harsh and therefore got a little defensive.

 

And yes, my husband and I have separated.

 

Understood! Its easy to get defensive, don't worry I have done it too!!!

 

 

Thanks for clarifying, SB. I think I can understand some of the earlier skepticism I encountered in these posts. It's funny, but when I posted my situation, it never crossed my mind that anyone would think I'd made it up.

What would be the point of making up such a bizarre story--or my equally bizarre reaction to the whole situation?

 

Any yes, I did expect to see harsh and even some unsympathetic comments. I just never expected that people would think I'd made it all up!

 

I know! Innocent me couldn't believe that people could be BOTHERED to construct such elaborate hoaxes on here. Get a life is what I say to them!

 

I wouldn't like it if I saw my ex every day, it would definitely give me the creeps. But short of moving out I guess you just have to be the better person and hold your head high on this one.

[JCD]

Your problem was that you got involved with a guy that wanted more than a casual relationship. There are two types of guys. Ones that don't care about the woman and want only sex with her and the other type wants a meaningful relationship leading to marriage. You got the second guy while wanting the first guy. The long stares you exchanged might have mislead you into believing you got the first guy.

 

So, once you lured him in then rejected him he was trying to get back at you by ignoring you. That was when he got cold. At the same time he wanted you so he got hot. Seeing that this wasn't working well he tried to get you by getting a girl to drive you jealous. She also served another purpose and that was to get his mind off of you. I suspect this hot/cold behavior drove him mad.

 

My view is that the longer he stays with his new girl the better he will feel and will start to forget you. Sure, once he sees you his feelings will come back up but for a day or two and he'll be back to normal again. I also think he craves intimacy and understanding so what he couldn't get from you on the roof that night, he is probably getting from this new girl which will further make him forget you because she offers it to him and you're not.

 

Now, if he loses that girl he will start thinking about you again and he'll be at square one again. Several days ago on LS we had a discussion about limerick or some such. I think before he met his new girl, you were his limerick. Now he transferred it to his new girl. That's just my hypothesis based on how strong his feelings for you were, almost if not beyond obsession and the way he tried to get you back. Or maybe it was his inexperience with girls that made him be like this. His naivity towards girls thinking that when you stare at him it means you love him, etc.

[Sk8away]

Hi JCD,

 

>>Your problem was that you got involved with a guy that wanted more than a casual relationship. There are two types of guys. Ones that don't care about the woman and want only sex with her and the other type wants a meaningful relationship leading to marriage. You got the second guy while wanting the first guy. The long stares you exchanged might have mislead you into believing you got the first guy.<<

 

I think you're right in that Heathcliffe IS the second type of guy, but I think it was pretty clear he could only be the first kind of guy--in fact, I don't know how he could have thought it could ever be anything else, knowing my situation and the age difference and all.

 

>>So, once you lured him in then rejected him he was trying to get back at you by ignoring you. That was when he got cold. At the same time he wanted you so he got hot. Seeing that this wasn't working well he tried to get you by getting a girl to drive you jealous. She also served another purpose and that was to get his mind off of you. I suspect this hot/cold behavior drove him mad.<<

 

Although some of your reasoning rings true, I didn't "lure" him and reject him. In fact, I was stupid enough in the beginning not to "get" that he was blanking me and kept making friendly overtures, thinking he just hadn't seen me (until he started walking right by me, close enough to brush against me, yet completely ignoring me).

 

It did occur to me when the blanking started that he might have misread something I said or did as rejection, but after a lot of soul searching, I can honestly say there was nothing I could have said or done to set off his insecurities like that. In fact, I was very kind and friendly whenever we spoke. I don't tend to hold grudges, and I never held his weird behavior that second night on the roof against him.

 

There's no question that we shared a serious crush--and probably at the same level of intensity. And I was always nice and friendly and approachable, until I realized I was being blanked and started trying to give myself as much distance from him as possible.

 

I don't know if Heathcliffe is that scheming, i.e., getting a girl to drive me jealous. I'm sure she DID serve the purpose of getting his mind off of me in some way, although how he can do that by hanging around my building every night I don't know.

 

>>My view is that the longer he stays with his new girl the better he will feel and will start to forget you. Sure, once he sees you his feelings will come back up but for a day or two and he'll be back to normal again. I also think he craves intimacy and understanding so what he couldn't get from you on the roof that night, he is probably getting from this new girl which will further make him forget you because she offers it to him and you're not.<<

 

I don't have an issue with that. What disturbs me is that he is HERE in my building again, every day, after breaking his lease early to move out two months ago. What disturbs me even more is that he is not only coming here every night, straight after work at exactly the time he knows there's a good chance of running into me, but he's also been going in and out of the building--alone--during the hours he knows I'm likely to be going in and out too (remember, this guy had my schedule down to a science right at the beginning). Two weeks ago, he was actually standing outside the building (waiting, I presume, for his girlfriend to get home--waiting like a dog) when I left for my tennis lesson (exactly one week earlier, he was walking back from the store at the same time I was heading out for tennis lessons, so he probably knew there was a good chance I'd be coming out of the building at the same time).

 

Remember, this is the same guy who was doing absolutely bizarro things just to go out of his way to avoid me--and now he's hanging out in front of my building only steps from where I'm unlocking my bike! This has resulted in me changing my routine and going to extremes yet again to avoid him--and I feel like I just cannot escape this guy already!

 

As to his girlfriend, I'm not even mildly interested in knowing who she is or lurking about to "check out the competition" (I've only seen him with her once and only caught a glimpse of her from a distance--she's probably someone I've said hi to a million times on my way in and out of the building). I'm neither jealous nor harbor any negative feelings toward her--I'm just not like that.

 

I don't begrudge him having a girlfriend, but I can't help but wonder if her living in the same building as me has an extra attraction for him. Call me vain or delusional or both, but the guy seems to want to run into me now--and I feel like I have to be on my guard every time I step into the elevator or go in or out of my building! He has a new apartment--why don't they ever seem to hang out there?

 

 

>>Now, if he loses that girl he will start thinking about you again and he'll be at square one again. Several days ago on LS we had a discussion about limerick or some such. I think before he met his new girl, you were his limerick. Now he transferred it to his new girl. That's just my hypothesis based on how strong his feelings for you were, almost if not beyond obsession and the way he tried to get you back. Or maybe it was his inexperience with girls that made him be like this. His naivity towards girls thinking that when you stare at him it means you love him, etc.<<

 

"Ugh" to your first sentence. I think that if he loses her, especially if she's the dumper, it's more likely that he'll be lurking in the neighborhood again, stalking her (so you see, I can't win no matter what!) I do think his feelings (or obsession?) for me was strong, and I do think he's naive, although I doubt he mistook my friendliness and interest for "love." In fact, I think it's more likely he has wondered how really interested I was in him, if at all (I don't wear my heart on my sleeve, and I never chased him).

 

In one way, I'm glad he's seeing so much of her because I'm hoping it will burn out and she will get tired of him and dump him--and then maybe I can breathe a sigh of relief and put this weird, disturbing chapter behind me at last. It looks like he's given up his hobbies and his interests (the few I knew of) just to spend every waking moment with this girl. I think he's needy and pathetic (pathetic was the word that kept going through my head when he stood outside my building, waiting like a dog that night) and that she will tire of his clinginess before long. Mean as that sounds, that's what I hope. I feel like I'm living under siege!

 

Thanks for your insights, JCD!

[Sk8away]

>>I wouldn't like it if I saw my ex every day, it would definitely give me the creeps. But short of moving out I guess you just have to be the better person and hold your head high on this one.<<

 

Thanks for that, SB. Of course, he isn't my ex but it is creepy just the same. I wish it didn't bother me, but it does. I guess I'm still emotionally connected (even though I want like hell to break the connection once and for all). But there's really no way to completely avoid having to see him (unless I hole up in my fortress like a hermit).

 

I do hold my head up high and with dignity. But this situation is almost overwhelmingly uncomfortable for me and I feel like heading for the hills anytime I see anyone who remotely looks like him in my neighborhood (and to think I used to look forward to bumping into him:(!)

 

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I am obsessed with understanding this guy's behavior. Why the blanking and extreme avoidance for no apparent reason? Why the hanging out at my building all the time after he broke his lease early to move to another one, and why doesn't he hang out at his own place? I can't remember anyone acting so bizarrely toward me for seemingly no reason!

[JCD]

OP wrote:

 

*************************

I meet him at the appointed time and everything started off great. He starts by telling me how he’d cleaned his entire apartment right after he came home and found my note, and right before he called me—even the refrigerator. Then he kept saying, “This has been a really great day.” When I asked him why, he just kept smiling and repeating, “It was just a really great day.”

 

I'd been thinking about him nonstop for two weeks, weighing the pros and cons of taking things to the next step. He didn't drink, smoke, or do drugs, didn't sleep around, didn't have a girlfriend, lived only one floor below me, was as attracted to me as I was to him. I was determined that we would share at least a first kiss that night, then move on to the inevitable slowly and unhurriedly, savoring every moment along the way. The conversation was going well until suddenly, he made a complete 180 and started to freak out on me.

 

”What are you looking for?” he asked--and I was taken aback by the abrupt change in the conversation and his tone. I told him that I'm not looking for anything--I'm just enjoying a beautiful summer night on the roof with him.

 

Then he starts rambling about how, if we had slept together the first night, he thinks "it would've been pretty good" (as if he would even know) but that it would have been only a one-night stand. He implied that I had tried to lure him into my apartment—and my jaw nearly dropped. HE had tried to lure ME to HIS apartment and I had turned him down! The idea of inviting him into my place would have been unthinkable and distasteful to me, since my husband had once shared it with me and it would’ve felt just plain wrong!

 

By now, I was beginning to feel offended. I asked Heathcliffe what he wanted, since he was the one who had invited me up to the roof that night. "I just want a friend that I could sit up here with and talk to once in a while," he replies (oh, fine, I thought, you mean you want someone to be your shrink and listen to YOUR problems all night). Then he whines that I'm older and more experienced than he is, and that he's "picky." I decide I've had enough--the night is ruined, the mood spoiled, how things went so wrong, I still don't know--and I was starting to get upset. I very calmly told Heathcliffe that he was out of line and had no right to talk to me like that. I wished him good night, turned on my heel and left, leaving him sitting alone on the roof. He never even tried to follow.

 

Back in the quiet safety of my apartment, I felt like someone had sucker punched me. What the hell just happened up there? I kept wondering. I replayed the evening over and over again, trying to figure out what I’d said that set him off. I was pretty sure I hadn’t said anything. I was completely baffled, angry and hurt by his behavior. I didn’t deserve to be talked to like that!

 

I didn't bump into Heathcliffe again until two days later, on the street. He acted cool, asked me how I was, and pretended like nothing had happened and I did the same. But I felt deflated.

 

The coolness continued for a few weeks, then I started bumping into him again, like old times. Only now he would alternate between smiling deeply into my eyes, being cold and curt, or totally blanking me altogether. Nothing was ever said again about that night on the roof. If we happened to be in the elevator together or waiting at the bus stop, he would act extremely uptight and uncomfortable.

*********************************

 

Right there is your answer. Somehow he built an image of you in his head of an ideal woman for him and you shattered it. When you said to him that you're not looking for anything you basically rejected his image of you in his head. At this point he was in love with you. Remember how he smiled and said his day went great? Anyways, after the rejection he needed to get you out of his head. But as days progressed he realized that you aren't as bad or maybe didn't meant what you said to him so he went hot for you again. But then seeing how you avoided him he went cold.

 

You are dealing with a highly sensitive and emotionally mature guy who wants a simple straight forward relationship and who fell for a girl that wants anything but that. He's bitter about that and mad at himself for falling for someone like you. It's not your fault but his misinterpretation of you that he is battling.

 

It's like you seeing this handsome man and falling in love with and later him telling you that he wants nothing serious and when you freak out he tells you that it's over between you. You then want him to love you so you turn hot and when he does things to avoid you you turn cold on him, to hate him. But that only lasts couple days and when you see him again, you forget all the bad things about him and start to love him from afar again but then he does something to put distance between you and you turn cold on him again. It's a never ending cycle and only way to break it is to talk to each other and figure out what to do next or to go complete NC.

 

But when she doesn't want to talk to you like my ex the only thing left is complete NC by either you or him moving out. Even if he sees you for a second it screws up his day or two. If he sees you longer then he becomes more attached again and the cycle repeats. He might even try to convince himself that he can be a friend with you but he's fooling himself and later becomes cold again.

[Sk8away]

...some of what you said has a ring of...familiarity? Although I do think you read overmuch into some of his motives and mine.

 

And I wouldn't describe his feelings as "love" --infatuation or limerance, perhaps, but how can you "love" someone who you know so little about? Remember, HE did all the talking that night, and I did all the listening.

 

I think he is highly sensitive but immature (most likely from lack of experience with women), and the hot and cold cycles you describe would explain the ambivalent behaviors acted out on both sides--at least in the beginning. I think I can relate to that.

 

You said: >>Even if he sees you for a second it screws up his day or two. If he sees you longer then he becomes more attached again and the cycle repeats.<<

 

I think I intuit what you're trying to say here. Part of the reason why I went into complete avoidance mode is because I realized I needed to break the "attachment" you speak of. For a while, I thought he was probably doing the same, but since he's moved out of my building, it seems like he's done a 180 and I keep encountering him around the building almost always without the girlfriend (although he's obviously still dating her as he needs someone to buzz him inside). If I was always bumping into him with her on his arm, I would probably shrug it off as an unfortunate accident. But that isn't the case. Is this part of the cycle you described? I have no way of knowing, but I will continue to change and vary my routine to reduce the probability of a chance encounter.

 

For example: Tonight, he arrived at the bus stop ten minutes after I did (this was after work). The buses were running late and I had looked up from the paper I was reading just as he was approaching. He was staring straight at me, so I quickly looked away. I guessed he was probably heading back to my building again to see his girlfriend so I walked 4 1/2 blocks to a different bus route just to avoid having to encounter him getting on and off the bus--or worse, during the two-block walk from the bus stop to my building!

 

This is only the third time I've ever seen him at the bus stop after work, otherwise I would avoid taking that bus line entirely at the end of the day, just to...well, you know. .:::sigh::::

 

And at the same time I know my avoidance behavior is self-defeating because the effort I am putting into it actually is keeping me attached. I'm so screwed (up!) But what other options do I have, other than move? (and I've been actively looking for two weeks now)

 

I'm sorry about the way your ex treated you. Ignoring someone is one of the most hurtful things one person can do to another!

[JCD]

I think because he is inexperienced with women he takes your friendliness toward him as a notion that you love him. I have a woman friend that is very touchy. She always gives me hugs and puts her head on my shoulder. At the same time she always talks to me about her husband and what they did. At first, because of my inexperience with women, I thought that she secretly loved me. Overtime I came to realize that she just wants a very close friend who she can connect with. We talked about her and me and she said if she wasn't married that she most likely would be dating me. I believe her and now when a girl hugs me I take it as friendly gesture instead of analyzing it and finding hidden meanings in it.

 

I think your guy thinks that you love him and are playing games with him. I know you tried to stay distant and all that but it is coming across to him like a game or something. Maybe he thinks you are testing him by playing hard to get. So I would suggest one of two things. Either go talk to him and explain to him that you are only his friend and that being nice to him does not mean that you love him. Tell him that at one time you were in love with him or at least found him attractive but that now you don't. Be certain that he understands this and that you follow your words with actions that reflect this. Or go complete NC on him by moving away to another city. That might not be realistic so I would go with the first option.

 

I'm a close friend with my touchy woman friend and perhaps you can too become a close friend with this guy if you explain things between you two.

 

In my case, the problem was that while I talked to my girl about her and me, she still sent me wrong signals after the talk and during the talk I knew she was partly lying to me about how she felt about me. She wanted me out of her life but at the same time kept staring at me and giving me attention. I almost went crazy because of this but I realized that her sister is crazy and some of that craziness no doubt was passed down to her by her mother.

 

Hopefully, your words and actions will be in synch.

[Sk8away]

Hi JCD,

 

Work and personal issues have kept me away from these boards for a while, but I wanted to thank you for your last response. I'm sorry about your "touchy" friend--but I sense you would like this to be more than just friends?

She sounds very conflicted,which would be understandable if her marriage is in trouble (which is what it sounds like).

 

The latest chapter in this weird saga--can anyone offer me insights into this guy's behavior, please?

 

I didn't see Heathcliffe again until two weeks after my previous encounter with him, which was about five or six weeks ago. Three weeks ago, I was skating on the bike path after work as usual and fiddling with my I-pod when suddenly he darted across the path right in front of me, heading in the opposite direction, and smiling and WAVING at me, after weeks--no months--of pretending that I was invisible!

 

Somehow I kept my composure, DIDN'T smile or wave back and even managed something like a grimace. The only reason I didn't flat-out ignore him was because he took me completely by surprise!

 

Anyway, it was a real WTF moment for me and left me even more confused than ever about his bizarre behavior. It was obvious he wanted to make damn sure I saw him and he probably knew he'd catch me off-guard (which he did). I hadn't seen him around my building for a couple of weeks so I assumed he might have broken up with the girl he'd been dating, which was all well and good. Another week went by and still I didn't see him around. I started to relax and started going in and out of the building more often. Still no sign of Heathcliffe, and now I felt I could begin putting this whole fiasco behind me. Another week passed, then another--still no sign of Heathcliffe. Good, his building romance must be over.

 

Until tonight. As I was returning from my usual evening skate, a newbie stumbled out from a side path and onto the main bike path in front of me. As I veered around her and her partner, who was practically jogging in place to keep pace with her, I recognized the familiar profile of Heathcliffe! There he was, leading this poor girl who obviously hadn't been on skates more than once or twice before onto the busy bike path (she nearly tripped and fell as I skated around her--thankfully, she was wearing protection gear). I saw him look at me, then pretend he didn't see me (again).

 

I only glimpsed the back of her head (didn't look back, naturally) but even though I'd only glimpsed the girl in the building only once before (from behind and at a distance), the newbie skater didn't look like that girl--at least not from the back of the head, lol. I wondered if he had a new girlfriend (which was fine, as long as it wasn't someone in my building), or if it was the same one.

 

I have to confess to doing something a little silly and undignified here: I skated back to my building, knowing that it be at least 20 minutes to a half hour before they returned (IF it was the same girl) My car was parked just down the street across from my building entrance, so I climbed into it, skates and all, and waited.

 

Sure enough, Heathcliffe turned into the street exactly 20 minutes later with newbie skater in tow. Even though it was almost dark by then and my car wasn't under a street lamp. I fumbled around in the glove compartment with some CDs (didn't want to get busted being that obvious, lol), and when I glanced up a moment later, Heathcliffe was standing directly across the street from the driver's side, locked in an embrace with this girl. Don't know if he knew I was sitting in the car, or if he even knows what my car looks like, but I think it's funny that he just happened to stop directly across from where I was sitting to do that. I didn't dare look up again until they were in the building and I was certain they were already in the elevator. I never did get a look at the girl, but then my objective was to confirm that Heathcliffe was still hanging around. And sure enough, he is (and he must still be dating that same girl--I mean, what are the odds he'd be dating another woman in my building?)

 

Anyway, JCD, when you said below that my keeping my distance seems like a game to him, I would have thought that was ridiculous if not for the smiling and waving incident three weeks ago.

 

I would love to follow your advice, but we never had a relationship and besides, he's in another relationship now (even more reason to go out of my way and keep my distance). And while I am still physically attracted to him--against all logic and my better judgment--you'd have to pound wooden splinters beneath my fingernails to get me to admit it--least of all to HIM.

 

Anyway, I'm really bummed now that he's STILL around the building and once again I have to feel tense every time the elevator doors open. And I'm also confused (again) by his behavior. My first reaction was anger. How can this guy just expect that I'm going to smile and wave back after he's been BLANKING me for months? Did he REALLY think that was going to happen? What was he thinking?!

 

Can anyone offer me any insights into this kind of behavior? What is up with this guy?!!

 

Moving away to another city isn't an option, JCD, but it sure sounds tempting right about now!

 

I think because he is inexperienced with women he takes your friendliness toward him as a notion that you love him. I have a woman friend that is very touchy. She always gives me hugs and puts her head on my shoulder. At the same time she always talks to me about her husband and what they did. At first, because of my inexperience with women, I thought that she secretly loved me. Overtime I came to realize that she just wants a very close friend who she can connect with. We talked about her and me and she said if she wasn't married that she most likely would be dating me. I believe her and now when a girl hugs me I take it as friendly gesture instead of analyzing it and finding hidden meanings in it.

 

I think your guy thinks that you love him and are playing games with him. I know you tried to stay distant and all that but it is coming across to him like a game or something. Maybe he thinks you are testing him by playing hard to get. So I would suggest one of two things. Either go talk to him and explain to him that you are only his friend and that being nice to him does not mean that you love him. Tell him that at one time you were in love with him or at least found him attractive but that now you don't. Be certain that he understands this and that you follow your words with actions that reflect this. Or go complete NC on him by moving away to another city. That might not be realistic so I would go with the first option.

 

I'm a close friend with my touchy woman friend and perhaps you can too become a close friend with this guy if you explain things between you two.

 

In my case, the problem was that while I talked to my girl about her and me, she still sent me wrong signals after the talk and during the talk I knew she was partly lying to me about how she felt about me. She wanted me out of her life but at the same time kept staring at me and giving me attention. I almost went crazy because of this but I realized that her sister is crazy and some of that craziness no doubt was passed down to her by her mother.

 

Hopefully, your words and actions will be in synch.