BS's who became OW...

[Tomcat33]

Let's re-visit what I said:

 

They why is it that some people who are hit on all the time by MM never cheat no matter how attractive they find the MM to be? They know they can attract the MM because the opportunity is right there, but for some reason, they never do it. Could it be that the reason is they are not, as you say, destructive? Is it possible that some people do have a boundary that they will never cross because it's not in their nature?

 

I don't know where you got that other quote from, but it sure wasn't mine. So, can you answer the question or do you just want to attack me? Do you think that it's not possible for a person to have a boundary that they know they will never cross?

 

I'd rather just ignore you, your thought doesn't even make sense. Learn to read what others write and then try to give your own interpretation.

[herenow]

I just love blanket statements, it just shows how closed minded some people really are.

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I am tired of reading posts of both cheaters, and OW/OM who say "I never thought I could do this..." In this thread alone there are a few...so c'mon!

 

For the most part, people don't seek it out, it happens and they may they fall into temptation, THAT's the 1% I speak of. And those very same people are human beings, who at some point would have said I will NEVER...

 

But they do cheat. What about the ones who say never and they stick to it? I'm sure you will find many of them. However, this is probably not the best forum for those people.

 

Why do you have such a problem with someone saying that they will NEVER cheat? It's a matter of choice.

 

And yes, I'm closed minded to affairs. Absolutely!

[Tomcat33]

But they do cheat. What about the ones who say never and they stick to it? I'm sure you will find many of them. However, this is probably not the best forum for those people.

 

Why do you have such a problem with someone saying that they will NEVER cheat? It's a matter of choice.

 

And yes, I'm closed minded to affairs. Absolutely!

 

I have a problem with people who think that things could NEVER happen to them, choice or no choice, you just don't know what life has in store for you...I think it's natural to be 99% sure of your convictions it's healthy and it's an aspiration worth having. I just don't think it's possible to be 100% sure of something...other than death of course. That was my point.

[herenow]

I'd rather just ignore you, your thought doesn't even make sense. Learn to read what others write and then try to give your own interpretation.

 

 

Of course you would rather ignore me.

 

Since you don't seem to be able to understand the question. I will make it easier for you:

 

Do you think it's possible for human beings to set personal boundaries and stick to them?

[herenow]

I have a problem with people who think that things could NEVER happen to them, choice or no choice, you just don't know what life has in store for you...I think it's natural to be 99% sure of your convictions it's healthy and it's an aspiration worth having. I just don't think it's possible to be 100% sure of something...other than death of course. That was my point.

 

That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I can tell you with no doubt that I will NEVER be a willing part of an affair. NO question about it. 100%. I have had many chances and I know myself enough to know that I can make that statement with complete certainty.

[Tomcat33]

That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I can tell you with no doubt that I will NEVER be a willing part of an affair. NO question about it. 100%. I have had many chances and I know myself enough to know that I can make that statement with complete certainty.

 

What if your H ended up in jail because he commits a crime and he is put away for 10yrs, you find out he was lying to you about his other life that made him go to jail? you wouldn't cheat then? you would wait for him to come out and be with you again? Or he goes into a coma, or he goes away on a trip mysteriously dissapears and never comes back?

[whichwayisup]

What if your H ended up in jail because he comits a crime and he is put away for 10yrs, you find out he was lying to you about his other life that made him go to jail? you wouldn't cheat then

 

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read!

 

Or he goes into a coma, or he moves or he goes away on a trip mysteriously dissapears and never comes back?

 

And so is this!

[Tomcat33]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read!

 

 

 

And so is this!

 

Well if she answers you'll see where I am going with it....and why I chose those "ridiculous" examples.

 

Just because you don't understand it, it doesn't mean it's ridiculous.

[herenow]

What if your H ended up in jail because he commits a crime and he is put away for 10yrs, you find out he was lying to you about his other life that made him go to jail? you wouldn't cheat then? you would wait for him to come out and be with you again? Or he goes into a coma, or he goes away on a trip mysteriously dissapears and never comes back?

 

Based on whatever the situation is, I would have a choice to divorce him or stick with the marriage. No, I wouldn't cheat and I certainly wouldn't have a relationship with a MM if I was ever to leave my H for whatever reason.

[Reckless]

I don't think its a question of attraction - as long as you are alive you will be attracted to other people and people will be attracted to you. Its chemical, mental sprititual.. its a force as strong as anything I've know - its what god uses so ensure the planet doesn't empty out. Whether or not you feel an overwhelming attraction to someone is neither here not there. Acting on that attraction requires circumstances and a degree of forthought.

 

Being married (or in an exclusive relationship) is not a matter of never feeling a strong attraction to another human being for as long as you live(that is ridiculous). You WILL one day meet someone for whome the attraction is as much or greater than for your partner. If you're married sooner or later you will meet someone MORE suitable for you than your partner. If you had been free you would have maybe made a BETTER couple, been happier...

 

Once maybe twice in my life I've met men and KNOWN, just known we would be good together and also know it was completely mutual. With some people the "chemistry" is such that you know that if you spent any time alone with that person things would get complicated. If you build a friendship it WILL lead to love. If you fall in love you WILL have sex.

 

At those instances, when you sat in a car or looking across a crowded room, or across a dinner table you know, you just KNOW that you cannot have a friendship with this person because more is inevitable. THERE for me is when you make your decision about affairs, at the moment when you say I cannot be alone in a room with this person. I cannot go over and babysit his kids, I cannot agree to a weekend with the four of us go skiing...

 

As for the "creeping up on ya" same deal applies. I know myself and I know my heart and I know when its being encroached upon. As some moment you realise that this person is firmly inside the space reserved for your partner - nothing has been said or done but from that moment, AT that moment you make your decision about affairs.

 

I judge no one - I'm just saying I have had those moment and THOSE are moments when I've decided not to have an affair.

[Herzen]

Is cheating a matter of voluntary choice, free will? At the outset, it is a matter of choice. In my case and that of the MW, most definitely yes. While alcohol (at a Holiday party) greased the skids, we both pushed that sled down that very long hill. And what a joyride it was, too.

 

The trick is not to place yourself in a position where there's a substantial risk for an affair: making an attractive opposite sex colleague at work your best friend and confidante; sharing personal matters with this person that you don't share with a spouse; beginning to lead a separate emotional and affective life with a non-spouse and having those needs increasingly met outside of marriage.

 

A work friendship is a very slippery slope.

 

But once the affair goes full steam, and the endorphins and oxy start flowing, all bets are off. A love affair is the crack cocaine of romance.

[Tomcat33]

Based on whatever the situation is, I would have a choice to divorce him or stick with the marriage. No, I wouldn't cheat and I certainly wouldn't have a relationship with a MM if I was ever to leave my H for whatever reason.

 

In the case of the coma and that he left and dissapeared you could not because he could not agree to the divirce.

 

But in the case if the incarceration, you could yes. Question is WOULD you divorce him or wait for 10yrs?

[Tomcat33]

The trick is not to place yourself in a position where there's a substantial risk for an affair: making an attractive opposite sex colleague at work your best friend and confidante; sharing personal matters with this person that you don't share with a spouse; beginning to lead a separate emotional and affective life with a non-spouse and having those needs increasingly met outside of marriage.

 

 

EXCELLENT point and this is where I was headed with my intial point. It is fine to think that one will avoid any sort of temptation 100% of the time to avoid falling into the A trap, but there is always the 1% chance that we could let our guard down and given the circumstances we might not even realize we are letting the guard down. UNLESS of course we feel that no one will EVER be attracted to us, or no one will ever be attracted to our spouses/siginificant others, then that's the only time one need not worry about that guard because it's not physically possible for anyone to engage in any sort of romantic relationship with them anyway.

 

THAT'S why I have great problems with the 100% theory.

 

A work friendship is a very slippery slope.

 

But once the affair goes full steam, and the endorphins and oxy start flowing, all bets are off. A love affair is the crack cocaine of romance

 

Another excellent point so well put! I have to remember that last quote

;-)

[herenow]

In the case of the coma and that he left and dissapeared you could not because he could not agree to the divirce.

 

But in the case if the incarceration, you could yes. Question is WOULD you divorce him or wait for 10yrs?

 

In the case of a coma, I would be way to devastated to even think of another man. If he disappeared, I would do everything in my power to find him. If he was incarcerated because he lied about a secret life (or whatever it was you said), yes I would divorce him and move on with my life. I will never cheat on my husband.

[Tomcat33]

In the case of a coma, I would be way to devastated to even think of another man. If he disappeared, I would do everything in my power to find him. If he was incarcerated because he lied about a secret life (or whatever it was you said), yes I would divorce him and move on with my life. I will never cheat on my husband.

 

Well it's a good idea to aspire to, but if you were really honest with yourself you would at least accept the notion that you really never know how you will handle a situation unless you are in it, yes you may have all the willingness in the world to NEVER cheat but you don't REALLY know how you will behave in extreme situations until you are in said situations.

 

So the purpose of my "ridiculous" example was to demonstrate extreme cases of how people might give in to fail their own convicitions given the circumstances at hand. I gave extreme example so that everyone can relate to the breaking point. For many who have visited LS their convictions were as strong, but when faced with life's challenges and in THAT particular moment in time, they reached their breaking point to do the unthinkable. In their lives in their ideal to NEVER do something they broken a moral conduct which they had set for themselves.

Does that make them weak, dispicable, wortheless? or does that make them human?

[herenow]

Now Tomcat. I have answered your questions. Can you answer mine? Do you think it's possible for a human being to set personal boundaries and stick to them?

[Tomcat33]

Now Tomcat. I have answered your questions. Can you answer mine? Do you think it's possible for a human being to set personal boundaries and stick to them?

 

 

Given the right circumstances, yes.

[whichwayisup]

TC, why is it so hard for you to accept that HN's choice that she would never cheat bug you so much? We're not talking about temptation, or feeling attracted to someone else outside of the marriage, we're talking about ACTING UPON IT and she keeps telling you NO. That she would divorce first, before testing the other side of the fence.

 

You want people to hear and understand your points, yet you refuse to try to ease up and do the same thing for HN and others. For some reason you seem to personalize her answers, twisting it into something bigger, then if you don't get the answers you don't want, you get irritated with her, then threaten to ignore her.

 

I mentioned it before, but there is an ignore feature in your profile (the add/ignore buddy list).

[whichwayisup]

Given the right circumstances, yes.

 

Can you explain what you mean by "given the right circumstances."

 

See, it still all comes down to choice. CHOOSING to put oneself in a situation that could lead to cheating. Self control - CHOOSING to not let yourself get carried away... Respect - CHOOSING to respect the vows, CHOOSING to respect one's spouse.

[herenow]

Given the right circumstances, yes.

 

OK, so I'm sure you know that I will now ask you why you find it so hard to believe that someone can say with 100% certainty that they know themselves well enough to know that they would never knowingly cross the line into an EMA?

 

I can't say with 100% certainty that I would never kill anyone. I'm sure if it was self defense for me or my family, I would consider it. But, there is nothing that could make me have an affair.

[herenow]

TC, why is it so hard for you to accept that HN's choice that she would never cheat bug you so much? We're not talking about temptation, or feeling attracted to someone else outside of the marriage, we're talking about ACTING UPON IT and she keeps telling you NO. That she would divorce first, before testing the other side of the fence.

 

You want people to hear and understand your points, yet you refuse to try to ease up and do the same thing for HN and others. For some reason you seem to personalize her answers, twisting it into something bigger, then if you don't get the answers you don't want, you get irritated with her, then threaten to ignore her.

 

I mentioned it before, but there is an ignore feature in your profile (the add/ignore buddy list).

 

Right WWIU, it's my choice. I choose to not have affairs. I have control of what I do, so I can say 100% no way will it ever happen. Why would I want to self inflict that kind of pain? Ask me if I would ever stab myself in the heart and you will get the same answer.

[Tomcat33]

OK, so I'm sure you know that I will now ask you why you find it so hard to believe that someone can say with 100% certainty that they know themselves well enough to know that they would never knowingly cross the line into an EMA?

 

I can't say with 100% certainty that I would never kill anyone. I'm sure if it was self defense for me or my family, I would consider it. But, there is nothing that could make me have an affair.

 

 

That's interesting, you can't say 100% you won't kill someone but you can say 100% you won't have an affair.

 

 

Again, as I said before given the right circumstance, I think we can all stick to our guns an achieve what we want morally.

[whichwayisup]

That's interesting, you can't say 100% you won't kill someone but you can say 100% you won't have an affair.

 

I understand that. If I had a child, and my child was about to be stabbed by someone, I would not think twice about going in to protect my child -And if that meant I killed the person, so be it. I think ALL MOM'S (and DAD'S) would do this to if that situation were to ever happen. Once again TC, you want everyone to see and understand YOUR ways of seeing things yet you won't even attempted to see anyone else's point of view. And, then if someone disagrees with you, you take it personally, go into attack mode and become argumentitive.

 

Again, as I said before given the right circumstance, I think we can all stick to our guns an achieve what we want morally.

 

Again, what do you mean, "given the right circumstance".

[herenow]

That's interesting, you can't say 100% you won't kill someone but you can say 100% you won't have an affair.

 

 

Again, as I said before given the right circumstance, I think we can all stick to our guns an achieve what we want morally.

 

Yup, that's right. I can't think of a circumstance that could make me cross the line into an affair. But I think if it was a life threatening situation for me or any member of my family, I could (in self defense) kill a person who is going to fatally harm someone I love. Wouldn't you? Or would you just let them do what they want?

[Tomcat33]

I understand that. If I had a child, and my child was about to be stabbed by someone, I would not think twice about going in to protect my child -And if that meant I killed the person, so be it. I think ALL MOM'S (and DAD'S) would do this to if that situation were to ever happen. Once again TC, you want everyone to see and understand YOUR ways of seeing things yet you won't even attempted to see anyone else's point of view. And, then if someone disagrees with you, you take it personally, go into attack mode and become argumentitive.

 

 

 

Again, what do you mean, "given the right circumstance".

 

REad the first part of your quote, you just answered your own question. GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCE we are capable of not crossing the boundaries that are deemed morally wrong by society. That is my philosophy, which is why I adhere to the thought of NOTHING is 100%.

Just because one cannot imagine being in a certain situation it does not mean it cannot happen.

 

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am simply stating my personal point of view, you are asking me to explain it and I am. Then you turn around and tell me that I am closed minded!?!? LOL

If I were closed minded I would tell you that you are wrong, and I am right, but I never said that nor do I feel that.

 

So go back and re-read my original point about how 100% can only apply to when someone does not feel they can attract someone else because otherwise the temptation factor is always there, but given the right circumstances one can stick to one's guns and follow the moral conduct they have chosen for themselves.