BS's who became OW...

[whichwayisup]

You can't compare choosing to cheat on someone you love, knowing you're going to hurt them for your own selfish reasons to PROTECTING someone you love, ie family, or your own child - TO self defense, murder. It's apples and oranges!!

Re-read HN's original response to this, she puts it together better and it makes more sense.

 

Anyway, I am done on this. You still don't get it and obviously in your eyes, I don't get what you're saying - Agree to disagree.

 

Have a fun evening everyone!

[herenow]

REad the first part of your quote, you just answered your own question. GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCE we are capable of not crossing the boundaries that are deemed morally wrong by society. That is my philosophy, which is why I adhere to the thought of NOTHING is 100%.

Just because one cannot imagine being in a certain situation it does not mean it cannot happen.

 

There is no circumstance that will ever make me cross the line into an EMA. Why can't you understand that? No one can make me have an affair. NO ONE, that would be my choice and I will always say NO. No if ands or buts about it! As there would be gain in protecting someone you love, there is no gain in getting involved in a deceitful relationship. Not for me anyway.

[herenow]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am simply stating my personal point of view, you are asking me to explain it and I am. Then you turn around and tell me that I am closed minded!?!? LOL

If I were closed minded I would tell you that you are wrong, and I am right, but I never said that nor do I feel that.

.

 

 

Go back and read your own posts. Here is a quote from one on them:

 

"I just love blanket statements, it just shows how closed minded some people really are."

 

 

You called us closed minded. When I say what my intentions are as far as affairs are concerned. I'm speaking about something I know about myself and you are telling me I'm wrong. How would you know?

[serial muse]

This is an interesting discussion.

 

I have to say, I agree that I can't say for certain I wouldn't consider self-protection (or protection of my loved ones) as a valid reason for killing someone. But, after some reflection, I can't think of any similar life-threatening reason that would allow me to justify cheating to myself.

 

I understand the extreme cases that Tomcat has raised - perhaps the most poignant one, which someone else raised here a few weeks back, is the one about a SO in a coma. (Anybody else suddenly have the Smiths song in their heads?? "girlfriend in a coma". heh.)

 

Aaaanyway. The coma thing is the only scenario that gives me pause...but still, no. I think it just comes down to a choice - one that, unlike the self-defense choice, has no life-or-death consequences. Yes, it's a lifestyle choice - but then, that would be the precise basis on which I'd say no. I wouldn't judge someone else for making that particular choice, however (unless it were my spouse, of course. )

 

I think that I can honestly and safely assert that I'd say no because I have been in a situation where, as the BS after D-Day, I was tempted. (To go back the the original question of this thread!!)

 

At the time, I was hurting and despairing and feeling very very vulnerable, and I had a friend with a long-term girlfriend (5+ years) that I found myself almost overpoweringly attracted to. At the time, it felt like a force of nature, like this was my way out of this unhappiness, like fate had arranged it, like a lifeline. He made me feel good about myself, and at the time, that was love. I fell almost violently in love.

 

I agonized over acting on it for months. But I couldn't do it, I just couldn't. Whether he would have responded or not, I don't know - I believe he was also attracted to me, there was intimacy and charge between us, and we spent a lot of time alone together. It could have gone that way. But to tell the truth, as much as I needed that validation of my self-worth and sexiness and attraction at that time, and as much as I thought all the things we're hearing Fun2BeMe say in that other thread over there, there was a part of me that just couldn't bear the thought that my friend might be just as shallow as my exH. And that part of me really, really didn't want him to do it. Even though I also really, really did. And there was another, stubborn part of me - which I tried to squash, because I was very bitter - that felt ashamed that I might have sunk so low as to willingly hurt another person just because I was hurting and desperate to escape my own hurt.

 

So ultimately, I just decided - yes, I really did decide - that that is not the way I want to feel about myself. It took a lot of things to bring me there - therapy, friends, family, journal-writing. But I felt it was right, so I created distance, spent time away from my friend, changed the tenor of our conversations when we did talk, backed off from the intimacy I was tempted to encourage. I cried a lot.

 

But the good news is, now, three years later, he and I are still good (platonic!!) friends - and he's about to get married and I'm in a happy relationship. And yeah, I know it sounds self-aggrandizing, but I truly do feel like I managed to keep my integrity intact when I was at my lowest. And that is worth something to me. It helps contribute to my newly discovered sense of self-worth. And I would not want to jeapordize that. So that is why I can say, Tomcat - no, I wouldn't cheat. It's not worth it.

[herenow]

This is an interesting discussion.

 

I have to say, I agree that I can't say for certain I wouldn't consider self-protection (or protection of my loved ones) as a valid reason for killing someone. But, after some reflection, I can't think of any similar life-threatening reason that would allow me to justify cheating to myself.

 

I understand the extreme cases that Tomcat has raised - perhaps the most poignant one, which someone else raised here a few weeks back, is the one about a SO in a coma. (Anybody else suddenly have the Smiths song in their heads?? "girlfriend in a coma". heh.)

 

Aaaanyway. The coma thing is the only scenario that gives me pause...but still, no. I think it just comes down to a choice - one that, unlike the self-defense choice, has no life-or-death consequences. Yes, it's a lifestyle choice - but then, that would be the precise basis on which I'd say no. I wouldn't judge someone else for making that particular choice, however (unless it were my spouse, of course. )

 

I think that I can honestly and safely assert that I'd say no because I have been in a situation where, as the BS after D-Day, I was tempted. (To go back the the original question of this thread!!)

 

At the time, I was hurting and despairing and feeling very very vulnerable, and I had a friend with a long-term girlfriend (5+ years) that I found myself almost overpoweringly attracted to. At the time, it felt like a force of nature, like this was my way out of this unhappiness, like fate had arranged it, like a lifeline. He made me feel good about myself, and at the time, that was love. I fell almost violently in love.

 

I agonized over acting on it for months. But I couldn't do it, I just couldn't. Whether he would have responded or not, I don't know - I believe he was also attracted to me. But to tell the truth, as much as I needed that validation of my self-worth and sexiness and attraction at that time, and as much as I thought all the things we're hearing Fun2BeMe say in that other thread over there, there was a part of me that just couldn't bear the thought that my friend might be just as shallow as my exH. And that part of me really, really didn't want him to do it. Even though I really, really did. And there was another, stubborn part of me - which I tried to squash, because I was very bitter - that felt ashamed that I might have sunk so low as to willingly hurt another person just because I was hurting.

 

Ultimately, I just decided - yes, I really did decide - that that is not the way I choose to see myself. It took a lot of things to bring me there - therapy, friends, family, journal-writing. But I felt it was right, so I created distance, spent time away from my friend, changed the tenor of our conversations when we did talk, backed off from the intimacy I was tempted to encourage. I cried a lot.

 

But the good news is, now, three years later, he and I are still good (platonic!!) friends - and he's about to get married and I'm in a happy relationship. And yeah, I know it sounds self-aggrandizing, but I truly do feel like I managed to keep my integrity intact when I was at my lowest. And that is worth something to me. It helps contribute to my newly discovered sense of self-worth. And I would not want to jeapordize that. So that is why I can say, Tomcat - no, I wouldn't cheat. It's not worth it.

 

It is possible to make a choice because of what you believe and who you are as an individual. No one expects anyone to say that they would have done the same. This is proof that it is possible to say, that no matter the situation, some people just don't cheat for whatever reason.

 

This is the perfect post to end on. Thank you very much Serial Muse.

[Trialbyfire]

I understand that you are 100% in control of your decision and your decision is to not make a right with two wrongs. understood! However what if your H was not trying, what if you took him back and he was not putting the effort needed to make you feel like you are # 1 again, could you not see how it might be tempting to feel an attraction towards someone that is willing to notice you and make you feel good, especially given the anger you already feel for what he did to you?

No. If it got to the point where I felt he wasn't where I wanted him to be, I would leave him first before indulging in something new. Case in point, what I'm going through right now. While I'm still in love with the person I thought he was, the person he really is doesn't even hope to match up. Without this synchronization of person, it's my choice to discontinue the relationship, hence our pending divorce.

 

While life is rarely simple, why not drill down to the core components of it instead of running around gaslighting yourself? I had a marriage that was based on lies upon lies. Time to fix that situation to the level where I can look myself in the eyes, in the mirror.

[Tomcat33]

No. If it got to the point where I felt he wasn't where I wanted him to be, I would leave him first before indulging in something new. Case in point, what I'm going through right now. While I'm still in love with the person I thought he was, the person he really is doesn't even hope to match up. Without this synchronization of person, it's my choice to discontinue the relationship, hence our pending divorce.

 

 

 

So could you rule out 100% feeling something for someone else? Cirumstance permitting that a man that you find extremely attractive both mentally and physically and who really takes special interest in making you feel great, could open the door to an EA? I am not saying that you would engage in full blown A, but that the beginnings of an EA could start given the state that you are in and your current circumstances? Is it THAT far fetched that something like that could happen in a 1% chance?

[Trialbyfire]

So could you rule out 100% feeling something for someone else? Cirumstance permitting that a man that you find extremely attractive both mentally and physically and who really takes special interest in making you feel great, could open the door to an EA? I am not saying that you would engage in full blown A, but that the beginnings of an EA could start given the state that you are in and your current circumstances? Is it THAT far fetched that something like that could happen in a 1% chance?

I am currently separated and dating lightly. Dating lightly as in no sex or emotional attachments, more hanging with opposite gender friends, than anything else.

 

Why would I want to put myself out there in an EA or PA, when I know I'm not ready yet? As I've stated more than once, I'm still in love with the man he pretended to be and also am still angry at the boy he is. Talk about a recipe for disaster entering into a rebound relationship when I know I'm emotionally unavailable.

 

Btw, I don't do rebound relationships. I have to be whole to emotionally invest in anything else, otherwise it's unfair to the other person.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

TC,

 

I've quickly read through the above posts and don't have much time AND as you know I have a memory like a sieve. But you keep saying IF someone didn't do this or that ... there is a possibility that one would cheat. I DO NOT BLAME OTHER PEOPLE FOR MY ACTIONS.

 

Also, as serial muse pointed out (in an excellent post by the way) that no matter how in love or attracted to someone I might be, the fact that they might even entertain the thought of an inappropriate relationship with me (a married woman) , would make me not want them. I do not value nor respect that, no matter what. Now that said, I am married to a man who hasn't taken his vows seriously at all, and justifies any wrong by blaming others. That still doesn't make it ok (in my mind) for me to cheat. I would be no better. So even if prince charming walked in to my life tomorrow, I would have to pass that chance up. FOR ME! I do not respect nor want someone who doesn't value the same things that I do. So any man who would cheat with me, I wouldn't want.

 

I KNOW THIS! That is under MY control. I am not so spineless that I would blame my actions on another persons misbehavior or even an unfortunate circumstance. There are things I do not have control over, those things I can freely admit. I cannot control my gag reflex when even smelling creamed corn. I can control my actions and choose to set my own boundries and take great pride in adhering to them. THAT IS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT ME, not giving it up for anything or anyone!

[NoIDidn't]

What I don't get it why TC doesn't understand that some people just don't cheat? Everyone doesn't cheat. Just because your boundaries are permeable doesn't make everyone elses the same.

 

There is a manager at Mickey D's not too far from my home. I take my kids for after school snacks or treats there regularly. He started flirting with me about three weeks ago. I am naturally quite flirtatious, but have started to move away from being so as it gets me unwanted attention.

 

I stopped going to this store for a few days to avoid seeing him. He IS muy attractivo/guapo (and Puerto Rican). But I shut anything that I might have been feeling down.

 

I simply REFUSE to do it. Regardless of what my M is like. When men used ot ask me was I happily M'd, I told them it was none of their business. When my friends would push for the details of my sex life, I told them it was none of their business.

 

If your answer (general You, here) to the boundaries question is "depends", then You don't have any boundaries beyond your own instant gratification and selfishness.

 

I was offered free cable from the cable man, no one would have known but me and him. I turned him down. Stealing, even stealing cable, is wrong to me. I was offered free food from my manager friend, but I turned it down because I don't want him to think I am willing to engage him beyond the small talk of placing an order or basic friendliness.

 

I don't say any of this to paint myself as some sort of saint, cause I AIN'T!!! I have MANY vices, but my boundaries are non-negotiable.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

NID,

 

I honestly think that the answer lies somewhere in what you are motivated by. I call it "what fills you up". I agree about taking free things, that shouldn't be free. I told a friend, I wouldn't go through my neighbors garbage on the street even if there was something that I could use in the trash. It isn't mine. I don't want what isn't mine, and I do not want someone elses trash!

[Tomcat33]

What I don't get it why TC doesn't understand that some people just don't cheat? Everyone doesn't cheat. Just because your boundaries are permeable doesn't make everyone elses the same.

 

 

I do understand some don't and even won't I also understand we are all capable of it. There is that % chance within all of us (some people more %) that they could do the unthinkable. That's all.

[Zona76]

*Wonders if I'm the only one that doesn't know what BS and OW is*

[Tomcat33]

BS = Betrayed Spouse

OW/OM = other woman other man

A = affair

CS = cheating spouse...

WW WH WS =wayward wife, husband, spouse

[whichwayisup]

 

Nice of you to pass on that info for Zona, who asked a question, but what is with the ?? You don't even know her, and you're being rude to her.

[Tomcat33]

Nice of you to pass on that info for Zona, who asked a question, but what is with the ?? You don't even know her, and you're being rude to her.

 

 

What's with the happy face? I smiled at her as a welcome gesture!?!

Since when is smiling at someone rude??!?!

 

Look WWIU. Go to sleep and give it a rest already will you? You get funny late at night...

[whichwayisup]

What's with the happy face? I smiled at her as a welcome gesture!?!

Since when is smiling at someone rude??!?!

 

Look WWIU. Go to sleep and give it a rest already will you? You get funny late at night...

 

<---Smiley face

<----sarcastic face.

 

Sorry, maybe you didn't know that.

[Tomcat33]

<---Smiley face

<----sarcastic face.

 

Sorry, maybe you didn't know that.

 

I honestly did not. thanks for pointing that out.

 

not

[NoIDidn't]

I do understand some don't and even won't I also understand we are all capable of it. There is that % chance within all of us (some people more %) that they could do the unthinkable. That's all.

 

TC

 

I can say this much in complete honesty.

 

I am completely turned off by MM that approach me and I know or notice that they are married.

 

But....

 

And this is where a BIG But comes in.....

 

In a situation where it is an old friend, the MM, and circumstances are ripe for an A, who knows?

 

I know that I want to not put my family through the drama and pain of betrayal. I know that I don't want to hurt another family by thinking only of myself and my needs and desires at the moment. I would fight it with all my strength. I would run like hell.

 

But I can't say with 100% certainty that I would be successful. That's being honest with myself and with you.

[Tomcat33]

TC

 

I can say this much in complete honesty.

 

I am completely turned off by MM that approach me and I know or notice that they are married.

 

But....

 

And this is where a BIG But comes in.....

 

In a situation where it is an old friend, the MM, and circumstances are ripe for an A, who knows?

 

I know that I want to not put my family through the drama and pain of betrayal. I know that I don't want to hurt another family by thinking only of myself and my needs and desires at the moment. I would fight it with all my strength. I would run like hell.

 

But I can't say with 100% certainty that I would be successful. That's being honest with myself and with you.

 

Fair enough NID I appreciate your honest response. And I can also appreciate there are those people who are convinced they will never ever cross the line, but will they? Probably not. Possibly might?

I dunnow everyone has their philosophy on how they view their life and how they want to live it and we aspire to stick to our own philosophy and to be true to who we are but in my life I don't believe in 100% there is no 100%, you can be most certain of something but not a 100% that's what I believe at least..well except for death that's a 100% ;-)

 

And especially when it comes to cheating I know that no matter how hard I try to think that my partner may never cheat on me, if I know that he is capable of attracting another human being (and I don't mean in a physical sense only I mean in every sense) then there is always a chance that he could cheat. I don't beleive in trusting blindly, and ironically I am loyal to a fault. Trusting blindly I find, makes you throw in the towel a bit...not trusting blindly keeps you on your toes.

[whichwayisup]

if I know that he is capable of attracting another human being (and I don't mean in a physical sense only I mean in every sense) then there is always a chance that he could cheat

 

The thing is, everyone is capable of attracting someone else. Everyone at some point notices someone new, whether it be a fleeting moment of "wow, he's cute or wow, she's hot" kind of deal - It's a natural thing and just because one is married or in a long term relationship, doesn't stop that from happening. If you feel attracted to another person, so what? It's what you DO with those feelings of attraction that counts. Many people will ignore it and leave it alone. Some may want to explore it, but know it's wrong so they don't. Some let it rule their emotions and let it take over so they DO act upon it. Some don't think and just go for it. Some try it and realize WTF am I doing....Bottomline, it still comes down to a CHOICE to act upon that attraction.

 

If you don't trust yourself, how can you trust someone else?

[Zona76]

Well thanks... but I didn't know rolling eyes was being sarcastic. Simply indifference. Is that the same thing?

Okay yeah! When my kids did it sure! But I'm 55 and I recall my boss yelling at me once when she was talking at me and I rolled my eyes.

She was acting like she was my mother. Treated me as if I were a 4 year old. She thought I was giving her incorrect answers and I rolled my eyes... she called me on it with such disrespect I thought *why do I even bother*

So now I have learned... as my children learned to look straight ahead with a stony expression. Give off NO body language. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ha ha ha ha-SO THERE!!!

[Tomcat33]

Well thanks... but I didn't know rolling eyes was being sarcastic. . :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Neither did I Zona, I was trying to give you a friendly smile, since I went the extra mile and gave your all the acronyms possible that you might encounter on this board, I though I'd end it with a welcome smile.

Had it not been pointed out for me I would have never known the other happy face was a sign of sarcasm. (a winky face is still the universal sign for comradery, yes?)