Big Dilemma!

[TTT]

Here is my dilemma. I am a man, 30 years old, who has been married for 7 years. My wife and I have a 5 year old girl and a 3 year old boy. I have a good job. The problem is, my wife and I have had problems for years. One of the problems is that we are no longer "friends" like we used to be. We have trouble talking to each other about our feelings, dreams, desires, etc. We have sex only occasionally, and it is very monotonous and mechanical. We only do it because we feel like we need to in order to save our marriage. One of the problems is that her libido is much lower than my own. She never feels like having sex, but she will do it on occasion because she thinks our marriage will end if she doesn't. She usually enjoys it once we get going, but it is very infrequent.

 

A little bit of background information will help you understanding some of the sources of our problems. Since I was about 15 or 16 I have enjoyed looking at pornography. This has continued into adulthood. I thought that when I got married I would no longer want it, but I was wrong. I eventually told my wife after a few years of marriage and she was devastated. I stopped looking at porn, but this only lasted for a few months. I continue to look at it, and my wife has no idea. The reason I haven't told her is that I am positive she will leave me if I do. She was devastated the first time I told her, and I have now been lying to her for many years. The main reason I don't want her to leave me is because I don't want to lose my children. I do desire to be single again, though. I have been with my wife since I was 18, and I feel like I have really missed out on life as far as dating. I would never cheat on my wife, but I have strong desires to be with other women. I know this is selfish, but I'm trying to be honest here.

 

Even though I am an adult, I feel like I am being forced to live like a child. One of the reasons my wife and I got married was because of our religion and our upbringing. This is the thing we most had in common. I have since realized that my church isn't what it has claimed it is, and I have been living under a veil of lies. Many of you can probably guess what church this is. My wife won't tolerate R rated movies, let alone some mild erotica that I think could spice things up a little. In addition, I told her I may want to start drinking socially down the road, which I have never done, and she said she'd leave me if I ever drank alcohol. This may sound stupid to most of you, but if she knew I have secretly been drinking coffee for a year or so, she would shed many a tear and likely leave me for that reason alone. The grip this church has on its faithful members is tremendous! I just don't think I can continue to live like this--like a child being shielded from the outside world! I feel like I am still young and there is a lot I would like to do in life. But my current situation is holding me back.

 

If my wife did leave me, she would likely move to the east coast where her parents live. We live on the west coast, so this would be horrible for me if the children go with her. I would at least have a good support system since my parents live nearby, and I have a lot of friends. But I can't imagine only being able to see my children a few times a year.

 

What should I do? Has anyone been in a similar situation? Please give me any advice you can think of!

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[melodymatters]

Tim,

 

I am sorry, but not having participated in a religious community or relationship, I honestly have NO advice. I just figured better to get an answer and a virtual hug, than nothing !

 

I do understand feeling so constricted, not only by your marriage, but by the made up " rules" in your religion. ( didn't jesus drink wine ? Don't little kids dance, just naturally ? and recent studies prove coffee is actually good for you !)

 

Perhaps..... you could agree to " double" counseling, One with a church leader to appease her, and one with a secular counselor ? It sounds like SOMETHING needs to be done for sure !

 

MY best wishes !!!

melody

[Storyrider]

You have to ask yourself how badly you want the divorce, and whether you're willing to make sacrifices to keep your children healthy in the process. I know this is going to sound like Dr. Laura talking, but it is your responsibility to move back east to be near your children if you choose to divorce your wife. She would have every right to want to be near her parents for support. And your own children would still need you.

[TTT]

You have to ask yourself how badly you want the divorce, and whether you're willing to make sacrifices to keep your children healthy in the process. I know this is going to sound like Dr. Laura talking, but it is your responsibility to move back east to be near your children if you choose to divorce your wife. She would have every right to want to be near her parents for support. And your own children would still need you.

 

True, it all comes down to what sacrifices I'm willing to make, which creates the biggest catch 22 of my life--I feel like I can't live according to my wife's lifestyle, and I can't live without my children. But I have to choose one or the other, which totally sucks!

 

Yes, I'd have to move. It would be hard to give up my job, but I'd be willing to do it for my kids. I've always been there for my children, and my wife considers me to be an exceptional father.

 

Also, I don't think I'd ever choose to leave my wife. She would leave me, however, if I decided to live a "normal" life, so I guess its my decision in a round-about way.

[annabelle75]

As some one that went through a divorce not to long ago, I’m curious as to why you believe she can just take the kids and run. In most states you have to work out a custody agreement. In the agreement I and my ex signed it was court ordered that neither of us could take the child and leave the state without consent from the other parent. As long as you are not a bad father, you do have a say so in where your kids live, unless you were planning on giving up custody and only having visitation rights. You may want to talk to a lawyer and find out what your options are on this matter. You may be surprised about what rights you have.

 

And as to the “religion” you speak of …….. I have first hand experience in that area. As far as I am concerned they are nothing but a very large wealthy cult. I see nothing wrong with you wanting to get out. If your wife says she’ll leave you if you leave the church, then let her go. Its sad when a church is more important than a spouse. I’m probably not the person to be taking advice from about this matter since I have such strong opinions on it, but I in no way look down on you for leaving your wife for this. I normally believe that you should fight for a marriage at all costs (I’m a minister’s daughter), but in this case I understand. Living such a stifled life is a waste. You deserve more out of life than that.

[TTT]

In most states you have to work out a custody agreement. In the agreement I and my ex signed it was court ordered that neither of us could take the child and leave the state without consent from the other parent. As long as you are not a bad father, you do have a say so in where your kids live, unless you were planning on giving up custody and only having visitation rights. You may want to talk to a lawyer and find out what your options are on this matter. You may be surprised about what rights you have.

 

Yes, you make a good point. However, I would feel so badly for my wife in this situation. I would probably let her go be with her parents so she has more support. It would be really hard for her to continue to live where we are without any support. She only has a few friends here and no family. And I think the kids would be better off with her since she is the primary caregiver. I'd like to maintain joint legal custody, though. I guess I should see an attorney, if it comes to that. Maybe my best option would be to follow the children and find a new job.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts or advice for me?

 

-Tim

[a4a]

Yes, you make a good point. However, I would feel so badly for my wife in this situation. I would probably let her go be with her parents so she has more support. It would be really hard for her to continue to live where we are without any support. She only has a few friends here and no family. And I think the kids would be better off with her since she is the primary caregiver. I'd like to maintain joint legal custody, though. I guess I should see an attorney, if it comes to that. Maybe my best option would be to follow the children and find a new job.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts or advice for me?

 

-Tim

 

 

I don't know about them being better off with her. Sounds like for their own mental and emotional health they may be better with you.

[TTT]

Would counseling even help in our situation? It really comes down to lifestyle differences--I cannot live the current lifestyle she desires me to live, and she will leave me for sure if I don't; and she would rather die than live the lifestyle I want, or permit me to do harmless things like drink a cup of coffee or watch "Little Miss Sunshine." Although a counselor could convince me that staying together would be best for our children, I can't continue to live in this bubble. It is restrictive, depressing, and boring. I would love to stay with my wife if she could tolerate even a little more than she does, but I don't think that will ever happen.

[melodymatters]

Well, your probably right, but if she's so religious that coffee is a sin, isn't divorce a BIGGER sin ? Maybe if whe see's how serious you are, she will be willing to compromise a bit more, and maybe some counseling could help that along. Couldn't HURT anyway !

[a4a]

well use her convictions against her to convince her to obey you.

 

I would imagine that in this church there are guidelines for women to follow.

 

Tell her she is going to a counselor of your choice.

 

a freakin' cup of coffee is a sin?...... unreal.

[annabelle75]

I don't know about them being better off with her. Sounds like for their own mental and emotional health they may be better with you.

 

Exactly. Do you really want your children growing up under that influence? I'm undertsanding that based on your religious background you see the woman as the primary caregiver, but you need to wake up and realize that you are capable of raising your children as well. Your kids deserve better than to be raised like that.

 

You say you would feel bad for her, why? She would be the one choosing to leave you becasue her church is more important than you. That's not right. If she is not willing to compromise, then she has no one to blame but herself. Don't feel bad becasue you are removing the blinders from your life and seeing a world beyond what you were raised to believe.

 

I also think you should enter couseling yourself. making these kind of chnages in your life style are not going to be easy and you will probably feel alot of guilt. Its normal.

 

And one more thing, staying togteher for th esake of the children is never a good idea in any situation. I did it for 8 years and it did more harm than good.

 

Hang in there.

[TTT]

I appreciate all the comments so far. It is strange to have people understand things from my point of view, because I feel like I'm going to be totally alone in this, as everyone in my family, my wife's family, and most of our friends, are members of this church and they will all think of me as an apostate and a sinner, and likely place all the blame on me. I think most of the blame should be on the church for its lies and control, and some of the blame on my wife for her blindness. Sure, I can accept some of the blame for my contributing actions, such as viewing pornography and lusting after other women. I could change in this respect, though. I think I'd be content with my wife if she were a little more liberal. I just want to be normal!

[annabelle75]

I appreciate all the comments so far. It is strange to have people understand things from my point of view, because I feel like I'm going to be totally alone in this, as everyone in my family, my wife's family, and most of our friends, are members of this church and they will all think of me as an apostate and a sinner, and likely place all the blame on me. I think most of the blame should be on the church for its lies and control, and some of the blame on my wife for her blindness. Sure, I can accept some of the blame for my contributing actions, such as viewing pornography and lusting after other women. I could change in this respect, though. I think I'd be content with my wife if she were a little more liberal. I just want to be normal!

 

You’re right about being alone in this when it comes to your friends and family. Sadly you will be viewed as the sinner and wrong in your choices. You need to find people to support you in this. Perhaps another church group that you feel more comfortable with their beliefs. If only you lived in Idaho or California I would be glad to put you in touch with people that could help you through it. Having support is important. Even just posting here will be good for you.

 

As to your marriage, you are going to have to be honest with her that you no longer share the beliefs of the church. And you have to be honest with yourself, do you want to save your marriage? If you do, you will need to tell her that and tell her you are willing to go to counseling (not by her church). You need to make it clear to her that you are not leaving her, you are leaving the church. If she leaves with out doing everything she can to save the marriage, than she is the one breaking up your family. I would think this would give her second thoughts before walking out the door. If she is willing to listen, there may be a chance you can salvage the marriage and maybe even open her eyes to what you have come to realize.

 

I’ll keep you both in my prayers.

[a4a]

I appreciate all the comments so far. It is strange to have people understand things from my point of view, because I feel like I'm going to be totally alone in this, as everyone in my family, my wife's family, and most of our friends, are members of this church and they will all think of me as an apostate and a sinner, and likely place all the blame on me. I think most of the blame should be on the church for its lies and control, and some of the blame on my wife for her blindness. Sure, I can accept some of the blame for my contributing actions, such as viewing pornography and lusting after other women. I could change in this respect, though. I think I'd be content with my wife if she were a little more liberal. I just want to be normal!

 

 

well normal may or may not be porn ogling and lusting after other women.... but you deserve some happiness for sure, a cup of coffee or having a beer on occassion is not the end of the world.

 

I saw Little Ms. Sunshine...... it was good. I did enjoy it.

 

I also love my hazel nut coffee....... of course I am evil.

 

find a good councelor today..... do it, do it now. Make an appt. today.

 

go by yourself if you think you need to get some of this out to set some goals first....... then ask your wife to join you.

 

do it today!

[bkz]

Yes, you make a good point. However, I would feel so badly for my wife in this situation. I would probably let her go be with her parents so she has more support. It would be really hard for her to continue to live where we are without any support. She only has a few friends here and no family. And I think the kids would be better off with her since she is the primary caregiver. I'd like to maintain joint legal custody, though. I guess I should see an attorney, if it comes to that. Maybe my best option would be to follow the children and find a new job.

 

Anybody else have any thoughts or advice for me?

 

-Tim

 

Tim, first let me say im sorry for what your going through, but im MORE sorry for what your children may be about to go through.

 

First, what makes you think your children would be better off moving away from THERE home? Even to benifit your wifes social life and support system? Arent we supposed to be doing whats right for our children? Moving them to the other side of the country after they've just watched there family fall apart doesnt seem to be in there best interest?

 

We move to were I live when my STBX was pregnant with our first son to be in a smaller town thats better for raising kids close to HER family and away from were I grew up with my family. When she decided to have an affair and end our marriage I fought for 50% custody of our 3 children (and got it) and stayed here were ive only lived for 6 years. I wasnt about to try and pick my kids up and haul them off to another aria because I didnt feel comfortable here, thats not whats best for them. Oh and my STBX didnt seem to feel real bad about me being here on MY own and I dont blame her for that, I wasnt her concern anymore after she chose to end our marriage. Its only about doing whats right for your kids.

[bkz]

You say you would feel bad for her, why? She would be the one choosing to leave you becasue her church is more important than you. That's not right. If she is not willing to compromise, then she has no one to blame but herself. Don't feel bad becasue you are removing the blinders from your life and seeing a world beyond what you were raised to believe.

 

Im thinking this is a very odd way to look at things. Why should she have to change anything? Shes done nothing wrong here really? Like he said himself, "One of the reasons my wife and I got married was because of our religion and our upbringing" He went into the marriage sharing in these views/beliefs and now shes gonna get blamed for breaking up there family because he's change his mind about them? Because he feels he's missed out on dating, wants to look at porn and chase other women?

 

Im not here to attack anyone for wanting to do what they want to do but you do need to take resposability for the choices you make, not pawn them off on someone else.

[annabelle75]

Im thinking this is a very odd way to look at things. Why should she have to change anything? Shes done nothing wrong here really? Like he said himself, "One of the reasons my wife and I got married was because of our religion and our upbringing" He went into the marriage sharing in these views/beliefs and now shes gonna get blamed for breaking up there family because he's change his mind about them? Because he feels he's missed out on dating, wants to look at porn and chase other women?

 

Im not here to attack anyone for wanting to do what they want to do but you do need to take resposability for the choices you make, not pawn them off on someone else.

 

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the particular "church" he is dealing with. It s like telling him he is at fault for wanting to leave a cult.

 

Right now he needs our support, not our judgement.

[TTT]

Let's take the porn and lust out of the equation for a minute. Yes, I admit its a problem, but I believe I can change in that respect, even if it means professional counseling. My real concern, as annabelle75 pointed out, is that I want nothing more to do with the church and its teachings. There is a lot more in this world I want to learn about and a lot I want to experience. Plus, I find myself becoming agnostic now, and there is a lot of truth I need to seek. I don't want to commit crimes, or do anything to make me less than an exceptional father. I just want to live and learn. I don't blame my wife for not seeing things the way I do. That's what happens with being brainwashed from birth. If somehow we can come to a happy compromise, and have an improved sex life, I think I can be content. But if I cannot drink coffee, try beer, wear boxers, and watch any movie I want, I will revolt and I just hope my children don't suffer too much because of it. We both really love our children, and if it weren't for them we would have been divorced years ago when I started learning more and doubting my religion.

[annabelle75]

I’ve focused most of my replies to you based on the religious problems in your marriage, but I also wanted to let you know that your problems with sex and intimacy are also major issues. Thos alone can kill a marriage. My husband lost interest in me sexually with in the first year of our marriage. For the last 7 years of it, we had sex on average once every two months and even then he made me feel like he was doing me a favor. I would have left sooner if I had not gotten pregnant. Over time the lack of intimacy took its toll and the love I felt for him began to fade.

 

I’m not a psychologist but I would think your interest in porn and wandering eye may have a lot to do with not feeling fulfilled in your relationship. If you want to continue to make your marriage work, this is something that needs to be addressed. I think you both really need to get to a counselor and work through these problems.

 

Now I understand that if she leaves you because you choose to leave the church this is all a mute point, but I just wanted to put it out there incase you get the opportunity to make things work.

[TTT]

I’m not a psychologist but I would think your interest in porn and wandering eye may have a lot to do with not feeling fulfilled in your relationship. If you want to continue to make your marriage work, this is something that needs to be addressed. I think you both really need to get to a counselor and work through these problems.

 

This is a problem...I find my wife very attractive and I love having sex with her, but her lack of interest makes me feel insecure, and makes me not want to initiate sex because I feel like she doesn't want it. But then if I don't initiate anything for a while she thinks I am not attracted to her. Its an endless circle.

 

As you say, if she leaves me for leaving the church this won't be an issue anymore. I guess I just have to talk to her, tell her I want to leave the church, tell her I want to work things out, and see what she thinks. If she can make a compromise and stay with me, we will have to work out the intimacy issues. If she wants to leave me, that's that. I'm just scared to death of talking to her about this. I know she will be so hurt, plus we already have communication problems, so it will be hard to express my feelings to her. Is writing a letter a bad idea? I know that's the wimpy way out.

[annabelle75]

I’m not sure what would be best in your situation. Even though in writing a letter you would be able to put more thought into structuring what you want to say, it may come across to her as cold and impersonal. Its really your call on this. How do you think she would take it better?

 

Above all else, when you approach her about it you need to make the point clear that you are choosing to leave the church and NOT her. She needs to be made to understand that. Before she makes any decisions you need to make known to her that you would like to stay together and try to work things out. If she knows that you aren’t just walking away from her, she may be more willing to talk and to listen to you.

 

It isn’t going to be easy, but its something you will have to eventually do. Things can’t continue as they are for either of you. Keep posting here for support. We’re here for you.

[mental_traveller]

Well, I feel sorry for you because it just seems like you married young and have drifted apart. I would say though that you brought some of it on yourself by not acting consistent to your professed beliefs. It's not fair that you presented an image to your wife that you in fact fell way short of. Not only have you constantly broken many of the beliefs of the religion you told her you followed, but you have covered up and lied to her for years, breaking your marriage vows and her trust in you.

 

This is the trouble with religion and other moral systems - no human being can actually live up to them, but there is a huge expectation and social pressure to do so. Thus people take the easy way out and tell lies, hide their true actions & thoughts, in order to appear "nice" or "pious". The trouble occurs down the line when these appearances are revealed to clash with the reality of a person's nature.

 

In your case I think you owe your wife a full and honest confession. Tell her your true & honest view of the church, tell her about your porn addiction and the lies and deceit hiding it from her. Tell her you feel that you missed out on dating, drinking etc, and basically admit to her that you don't think you are able to live the way that she does or that the church preaches. That's the only honest course of action for you.

 

Yes, she may well decide she wants a divorce, and that would be inconvenient for you. But it's not just your interests that matter, hers are important too. She deserves the right to make an informed choice whether to stay and work on things (if she can accept your changes), or to leave and start over.

[TTT]

In your case I think you owe your wife a full and honest confession. Tell her your true & honest view of the church, tell her about your porn addiction and the lies and deceit hiding it from her. Tell her you feel that you missed out on dating, drinking etc, and basically admit to her that you don't think you are able to live the way that she does or that the church preaches. That's the only honest course of action for you.

 

I realize this is what I need to do. In fact, I have known for years this is what I must do. However, I am terrified to tell her because everyone I know will eventually find out I don't believe in the church, many will despise me, hearts will be broken (e.g. my mom's), and my world as I know it will come crashing down around me. I need to make sure I have the strength to rebuild if I'm willing to shatter what I have.

[a4a]

I realize this is what I need to do. In fact, I have known for years this is what I must do. However, I am terrified to tell her because everyone I know will eventually find out I don't believe in the church, many will despise me, hearts will be broken (e.g. my mom's), and my world as I know it will come crashing down around me. I need to make sure I have the strength to rebuild if I'm willing to shatter what I have.

 

this is so sad......... you are held prisoner by the beliefs of people that claim they love you and want you to be happy.

 

 

For cripes sake tell them god spoke to you and told you to do this. I say this half jokingly.

 

I feel just awful for you. Be strong! You deserve a normal life. Sounds like this is not a church but a dang cult of sorts. I can only wonder what will become of your kids under the influence of this church?

[TTT]

this is so sad......... you are held prisoner by the beliefs of people that claim they love you and want you to be happy.

 

 

For cripes sake tell them god spoke to you and told you to do this. I say this half jokingly.

 

I feel just awful for you. Be strong! You deserve a normal life. Sounds like this is not a church but a dang cult of sorts. I can only wonder what will become of your kids under the influence of this church?

 

I really do appreciate your sympathies. I am well aware that I am not without blame on this, but I also think I don't deserve all the blame. Everyone I know is likely going to blame me 100%, so its good to know there are people out there who think this whole religion ordeal is a little crazy.

 

Hypothetically, lets say I tell my wife I have had problems with pornography, I want to leave the church, and I want to work things out. Assume also that she then tells me she cannot stay with me and says she is going to leave the state with the kids and move in with her parents. I assume she will want to be on a plane the next day. When should I talk with an attorney about custody issues? How would I stop her from leaving? I'm still not sure I would object too much to her leaving. I can take a month or so to wrap things up at work, pack, and move also. Despite some previous posts saying the children would be better off with me, I'm still not sure. I feel like they really need their mother. I know they need me too, but probably not to the same extent. And if I'm no longer in this church I'm not sure it can brainwash my children since I will be around to open their eyes and teach them about the real world, even if only on every other weekend.

 

I realize I will have some personal progress to make if I ever want to have a successful relationship in the future, or if my wife decides to work with me on our relationship. I'll try to keep posting updates, but I don't know how long it will take to get up enough courage to take this initial step. I really am terrified!