What is the "root of all evil"? What is sin?

[amerikajin]

Sin is mentioned in the bible, but what is your idea of sin? Which sins are the worst? Why?

[tanbark813]

Which sins are the worst? Why?

 

What Sheryl Crow did to "Sweet Child O' Mine" is pretty high up there.

[lonelybird]

The root of sin is human flesh

 

Galatians 5:19-21

Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, faction, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Seperate from true living God means worship other gods, is a severe sin.

 

Atheists in fact are worshipping other gods, sometimes people worship themselves:o , or worship their own flesh desires:o

 

Addictions are forms of worshipping other gods

 

People worship other people all the time

[boshemia]

Sin is mentioned in the bible, but what is your idea of sin? Which sins are the worst? Why?

 

Biblically, all sins are created equal. Extravagance, or lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride are the so called seven "deadly" sins.

 

As LB mentioned there are the sins of the flesh, and then there are the ten commandments. The breaking of which is considered sin. I'm sure we are familiar with them, so I'll leave you with George Carlin's theory. He claims that all ten could have been wrapped up in just two. When you think about it, he's kind of right.

 

http://www.geocities.com/bobmelzer/gc10cx.html

 

Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie.

 

&

 

Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you.

 

Two is all you need; Moses could have carried them down the hill in his ... pocket. I wouldn't mind those folks in Alabama posting them on the courthouse wall, as long as they provided one additional commandment:

 

Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself.

 

My definition of sin?

 

"Do no harm unto others" To me it sums up most of the Bible, and many religions.

 

I believe that all persons are worthy of respect, and care should always be taken not to intentionally harm another person.

 

Nearly every religion has some form of Karma, what you do to others will come back to you.

[amerikajin]

Biblically, all sins are created equal. Extravagance, or lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride are the so called seven "deadly" sins.

 

As LB mentioned there are the sins of the flesh, and then there are the ten commandments. The breaking of which is considered sin. I'm sure we are familiar with them, so I'll leave you with George Carlin's theory. He claims that all ten could have been wrapped up in just two. When you think about it, he's kind of right.

 

http://www.geocities.com/bobmelzer/gc10cx.html

 

 

 

My definition of sin?

 

"Do no harm unto others" To me it sums up most of the Bible, and many religions.

 

I believe that all persons are worthy of respect, and care should always be taken not to intentionally harm another person.

 

Nearly every religion has some form of Karma, what you do to others will come back to you.

 

Warning: I've been drinking bottles of Samuel Adams Cherry Wheat, so I'm a tad shyte-faced as I type this.

 

First, Tanbark, nice one!!!

 

Second, baaaahhhhhhh, I think the real sin is thinking of yourself as greater than the whole, if that makes any sense. I mean, yes, we're all individuals, and we have individual rights, and we all know that to abuse those rights is an abomination. But conversely, to assume that we are so important as to be more important than those who live around us....to me, that is the greatest sin. It manifests itself in various forms. Greed, Lust, Avarice...it's all the same shyte, mate. We all have the right to pursue happiness, but not at the expense of the 'greater good'...dogg.

[lonelybird]

I am hopeless to avoid sins by myself. Only God can guide us out the darkness. I don't trust on myself, but I trust on God. There are too many confusing things out there. Sometimes we even don't recognise what kind of people they really are. Sometimes I think certain people is ok, but Lord said "not ok", in the end, Lord is always right. Sometimes I think I was doing right thing, but Lord said "no, it wasn't right", it turned out Lord is right. I think everybody need Lord's guidance, in every thing.

[lonelybird]

Lord is highest intelligent being, His wisdom is far pass any of us. If we have guidance of Lord, what else do you want? NOTHING:D

Praise Lord!

[quankanne]

pretty much what the Ten Commandments boil down to is to love God and to love one another. To something to impede those relationships is to sin.

[Geishawhelk]

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." Timothy 6:10.

 

The love of money engenders pride, (big car, big house, big ego)...covetousness (greed), lust, (sex sells, and people marry for it) anger, ( I dunno, some wealthy people have a pig of an attitude!) gluttony, (Champagne? caviar? Oysters and foie gras? ) envy, and sloth (let the servants do it, that's what we pay them for....) - all the 7 deadly sins, in fact. So I think the above is highly accurate.....

 

The greatest sin for my part is to consider any being to be inferior or less deserving than yourself.

[Storyrider]

Judaism defines sin as a turning away or separation from God. I like that def. b/c it isn't really judgemental in a sense--either you're with Him or you're not. If you take all the emotion out of the word, it is just describing that gap between where you are, and where God is.

 

I think the worst sins are these:

 

1. Willfully hurting others for no justifiable reason.

 

2. Doing wrong in the name of religion and spinning it as if it is right.

[RecordProducer]

What is the "root of all evil"? What is sin? I don't understand your question. Evil is a feature that naturally exists in people, the force that guides them to commit sin. How can sin be the root, when it's the consequence?

 

Greed, sexual impotence, complicated genetic material... I think evil simply exists in nature, just like we have the ability to love, laugh, fear or sing.

 

Nature made predators aggressive, (strong, fast, etc.) so they can survive by eating those who got different features from Mother Nature. Homo sapiens got a variety of features that are constantly being developed or eliminated. Constantly, as in over millions of years. I think Nature is the root.

[Geishawhelk]

What is the "root of all evil"? What is sin? I don't understand your question. Evil is a feature that naturally exists in people, the force that guides them to commit sin. How can sin be the root, when it's the consequence?

 

Greed, sexual impotence, complicated genetic material... I think evil simply exists in nature, just like we have the ability to love, laugh, fear or sing.

 

Nature made predators aggressive, (strong, fast, etc.) so they can survive by eating those who got different features from Mother Nature. Homo sapiens got a variety of features that are constantly being developed or eliminated. Constantly, as in over millions of years. I think Nature is the root.

 

I would take issue with the text in bold.

Evil is not naturally existent in people. It is developped due to outside influences (or even mental aberrations) but it is not a natural existent quality in a human being.

Evil does not exist in nature. The root of all these behaviours is survival and self-preservation. Some take it to extremes and believe that in order to survive, they must dominate. What they are unable to Master and control within themselves, they suppress, and exert domination and control over others. Most despots have serious behavioural issues, and the origins of their problems are deep-rooted and usually based in their childhood and formative years....

The aggressive behaviours evident in wild animals is this survival and self preservatory instinct, there is no 'Evil' present.

[lonelybird]

I would take issue with the text in bold.

Evil is not naturally existent in people. It is developped due to outside influences (or even mental aberrations) but it is not a natural existent quality in a human being.

Evil does not exist in nature. The root of all these behaviours is survival and self-preservation. Some take it to extremes and believe that in order to survive, they must dominate. What they are unable to Master and control within themselves, they suppress, and exert domination and control over others. Most despots have serious behavioural issues, and the origins of their problems are deep-rooted and usually based in their childhood and formative years....

The aggressive behaviours evident in wild animals is this survival and self preservatory instinct, there is no 'Evil' present.

What is outside influences? not human being influence human being?

If perverted porn is a bad influence source, didn't human being make them? why they make them? because they know these porns will satisfy people's flesh desires.

As I knew, Buddhism claim to supress these desires, any desires, not like Chirstian Spirit lead flesh, but totally deny these desires, but I could be wrong

[Geishawhelk]

What is outside influences? not human being influence human being?

If perverted porn is a bad influence source, didn't human being make them? why they make them? because they know these porns will satisfy people's flesh desires.

That's precisely my point. Evil is not a natural instinct. it is learnt from others. And where did they in turn learn it.....?

[lonelybird]

That's precisely my point. Evil is not a natural instinct. it is learnt from others. And where did they in turn learn it.....?

then where others learn evil in the first place? how evil come here in the first place if human being no evil in them?

[Geishawhelk]

If you read my post again, you will see.

 

Evil does not exist in nature. The root of all these behaviours is survival and self-preservation. Some take it to extremes and believe that in order to survive, they must dominate. What they are unable to Master and control within themselves, they suppress, and exert domination and control over others. Most despots have serious behavioural issues, and the origins of their problems are deep-rooted and usually based in their childhood and formative years....

 

And if you'd like to go back in time to see just exactly when this survival and self-preservatory behaviour in man, turned into a harmful tendency, let me know, I'll pack you some sandwiches for the trip....

[RecordProducer]

Geisha, you're wrong. You think that a few natural traits might create a hybrid (evil), but think of the human brain: absolutely everything is determined in those cells. Different people react completely differently in the same circumstances. Many kids are bullied, but someone will shoot 32 innocent people and the rest won't even fantasize about it. What exactly caused such an extreme reaction? Mental disease? Evil IS a form of mental disease. In nature there are good and bad events. Religious people want to believe that everything has a reason behind it and the bad is also good. God knows why Hitler had to kill 6 million Jews! (So that the 60 million anti-semits can be happy! ) Jesus was Jewish, remember?

 

All the bad traits travel through generations and it's really a matter of luck what you will get in your brain. You like to think of your talents as your merit, but they are not. And if you're bad, it's not your fault, which doesn't mean you can feel free to be bad. But really these monsters were not born the same as you and me, and then someone screwed them up completely. They were predisposed to be evil and the bad events just triggered it.

 

After all, was Cho abused, raped, witnessed war or something similarly traumatic? No. The only thing that happened was the bullying. He was simply sick.

[Geishawhelk]

Mental illness is a different thing altogether. if a person is mentally ill, then they are not in their right mind, and although responsible, can't be "blamed".

 

If you take culture, ethics and morals - fed by religion and law - away from the human being, basically, we're mammals. It's only through the application of the above strictures that we have come to evaluate and judge the doings of others.

If someone is in their right Mind, then ultimately, the foundation of their behaviour is Fear. Fear of Losing control and of being dominated. A resistance to the influence of others. Some behaviours are taken to extremes, and this is where the damage lies.

If you're driving your car and someone carves you up, it makes you angry.

Why?

because essentially, fundamentally, that person has got one over on you.

 

Mental abberrations (or Mental illness, to put it another way, as I mentioned in my first post) are an exception.

 

Or have I not got your point?

 

Maybe you'd like to elaborate, this is a great discussion!

[DutchGuy]

[...]

Atheists in fact are worshipping other gods, sometimes people worship themselves:o , or worship their own flesh desires:o

[...]

 

Come again? Atheists worship other gods?

If we were created to gods image, than what would make self-worshipping sin?

And if god is everywhere, everything is god and therefore, everything can be worshipped.

 

What is the use of worshipping anyway?

Wouldn't a decent life be enough for god, why this whole ego-trip?

[a4a]

 

Come again?

 

That would be a sin of the flesh unless you are procreating?

 

 

Atheists worship other gods?

 

Yes have you not heard of American Idol?

 

 

If we were created to gods image, than what would make self-worshipping sin?

 

So that means God is a Big Mac Attacking muffin topped chick....... that is all I see around these parts of the woods.

 

 

And if god is everywhere, everything is god and therefore, everything can be worshipped.

 

Hummm........ good point..... and that is why I worship pop tarts and various other baked goods and pastries.

 

What is the use of worshipping anyway?

 

Something to do on Sundays because the bars are closed?.......... or the club mentality some church goers have..... its a club of sorts?

 

Wouldn't a decent life be enough for god, why this whole ego-trip?

 

Ya' woulda' thunk it .........

[RecordProducer]

If you take culture, ethics and morals - fed by religion and law - away from the human being, basically, we're mammals. It's only through the application of the above strictures that we have come to evaluate and judge the doings of others.

If someone is in their right Mind, then ultimately, the foundation of their behaviour is Fear. Fear of Losing control and of being dominated. A resistance to the influence of others. Some behaviours are taken to extremes, and this is where the damage lies.

I think I am getting your point. I have had similar thoughts to what you're saying here in a different context.

 

You did agree that evil exists in humans, but in a constructive form when in small doses - and destructive form when in larger dose. I think you're saying that ego, anger, fear, resistance, and other traits can grow immensely in certain conditions and become malignant. So Nature or God or whatever power created humans, gave us features necessary to survive and evolve. We need to screw to prolong the species, but the sexual instinct made us aggressive, jealous, and selfish. Since our intelligence, for mysterious reasons, grew so high above that of other animals, instinct was not enough - we received the ability to love.

 

In a similar manner, other traits were formed in humans. One trait pulled another and another. Finally a creature was formed, but with many imperfections. Frogs or crocodiles or cockroaches are simple: there's nothing in their minds other than fear, ability to find food, and a couple more primitive features. No ego, no love, no ambition in life.

 

Nature couldn't make us so wonderful without making us complex. And from that very complexity arises the fact that our characters are double-standardized. Simply, if they weren't, they didn't survive. Those who were too nice were not aggressive enough and died as a prey or starved to death. On the other hand, mere aggression was not enough; affection and altruism went hand in hand with successful survival (animals who get along reproduce themselves among each other, share food and therefore have huge chances to survive).

 

But since they needed to be both aggressive and kind, selfish and unselfish, only a combination of these traits could survive. Anthropologists say that nature introduces and tests different features and experiments until the right combination is found. So the gene pool now has a gazillion variations and possibilities. And sometimes the aggressive feature is multiplied. Something like in school, in each class you usually have one of each names, rarely two. But sometimes, very rarely you'll find that one class may have 7 Alexanders. it's a coincidence. So when 7 aggressive genes (metaphorically speaking) end up in one phenotype, instead of just one gene, you get the "remainder of the fraction." It's a mistake. It's not a message from God. It's Nature's mistake. Unfortunately there are too many mistakes. All the wars, criminal, and hatred arose from these mistakes.

 

This is why we instinctively seek compatibility, which is often the opposite of us - so we can creat babies that are a little bit of everything. If I (an idealist) only multiply with other idealists then all idealists will be extincts very soon, because we're not practical, aggressive and thus able to "fight for food." On the other hand, if the practical people survive (they ARE dominant, they form about 85% of the world population), morale and free spirit will suffer. And that will lead to higher aggressiveness and eventually extinction (which WILL happen if the ratio doesn't change). The planet is already going mad and too pragmatic and violent.

 

That's why we are all so unlucky in love: because our instincts force us to seek the opposite, as She needs variety of genes. But we intimately pay the price, because we end up in relationships where we're compatible strangers. Compatible in Nature's eyes, but not in our own. We are happiest when surrounded with people like ourselves. But that's not good for the global gene pool and humanity overall.

[Geishawhelk]

Waytogo - thank you so much, what a brilliant and comprehensive response!

 

Our lives are made so much more complex by our supposed prime intelligence. we have paid a high price for being "at the top of the food-chain" if you like. As a species, we are very screwed up, aren't we....?

 

THis is why - and I hope I can speak freely on this, as it's the Spirituality forum - I find my personal calling to be so satisfying. Buddhism does not instruct or promulgate the idea of something - or someone - "out there", but ensures, encourages and teaches that the buck stops "in here". (*points to nut on shoulders*....)

 

There is no concept of 'Sin' or having to pay a price in the future for the wrongs we do now. Or conversely, hanging onto the promise of an after-life reward, if we behave ourselves.

The punishment is now. And so is the reward. It's just a question of getting to grips with a few minor salient points first....

 

Buddhism is basically a religion that encourages training and taming The Mind. Stripping away all of the illusory, damaging, self-destructive hankering, yearning, clinging and grasping we all "suffer" from. That's what is meant when we hear Buddhists say that Life is "suffering". It doesn't mean that it's a constant wailing, depressive gnashing of teeth, and a 'what's it all for anyway?' kind of suffering. It's the kind of suffering that makes us want to be in Control, for Fear of losing it.

Once we realise and fully see, understand and accept - that everything - but everything - we hear, see and feel is transitory - that all compounded phenomena are impermanent - the rest just falls into place.

 

She said.

 

....(grinning like a idjiot.)

 

Simple, really.

 

Only...

 

'Simple' doesn't mean 'easy'.....

[amerikajin]

You did agree that evil exists in humans, but in a constructive form when in small doses - and destructive form when in larger dose. I think you're saying that ego, anger, fear, resistance, and other traits can grow immensely in certain conditions and become malignant.

 

I just don't know if 'evil' exists in nature. I think 'evil' refers to behavior that we find repulsive, such as murder, rape, theft and the like. At some point, however, the ability to rape, murder, terrorize neighboring clans and thieve their resources probably ensured the survival of the species. It wasn't for kicks; it was to show the other guy who was in charge. When we watch a nature documentary on Discovery and see a male Lion snapping the neck of a hyena or even another intruding lion, we don't call it 'evil', even when it's obvious the Lion has no desire to eat its prey. It's showing the other animals who's boss, which is in and of itself necessary in a primitive world, in which might makes right. Never forget we came from that world, and it wasn't long ago that we left it, either. Then again...when you look at all the wars we fight, maybe you could make the argument that we've never really left it at all.

 

All of the attention given to peace isn't necessarily because humans are necessarily any more evolved emotionally, or because we're more moral than our ancestors; it's because for the first time in our history, we're at the precipice. Our aggressive instincts, which have heretofore served as our insurance policy in perpetuating the species, could now actually be our hemlock: one false move and we could destroy every last one of us. What we need, thus, is a conscious adaptation of how we interact with each other. The ability to wage peace, to find alternative methods of resolving disputes, is now gaining more widespread acceptance out of necessity.

 

And that's a classic example of how humans operate, and how we were created. You mention the genetic complexity of Man - I think God created us so that we could adapt according to the circumstances. If God didn't give us the intelligence to understand the consequences of too much aggression and the emotional and intellectual capacity to seek alternatives, we'd have already been wiped out of existence. We have perfected the technology of aggression and death; we have a ways to go before we have perfected the technology of self-preservation, but perhaps we're starting down that road.

 

About the closest thing I can think of to "evil" is when someone kills for nothing more than pleasure. Someone who has contempt for life and the regard of other people...that's pretty close to evil. But even a lot of people who kill for no apparent reason live in a sort of warped unordinary reality which permits them to justify what they do, so can their behavior really be said to be evil? That's why we don't punish schizophrenics criminally - because they are incapable of seeing our reality. Whether that's good policy or not is up for debate, I suppose. But let's say for the sake of argument, Cho was convinced that his victims were out to get him and he saw this as self-preservation...is he evil? Or is it that we just find what he did extremely repulsive and socially impermissible?

 

The emotions we feel in the wake of something like this - particularly anger - are natural, and again, are part of our development as a species. Anger is a self-defense mechanism. We have needed anger to put others on notice, that we are not to be crossed. Even with someone as nutty and clearly out of touch and mentally incompetent as Cho, anger has a place. Anger among parents, family and friends serves as warning to everyone: I don't give a f*** if he was insane...don't ever mess with me, pal! And don't ever mess with my family.

 

Cho obviously felt anger - he felt threatened somehow. But what? What could possibly threaten him? Perhaps it was his ego - sometimes threats to our egos are the greatest threats we can perceive, especially in an individual society in which ego is valued. He felt assaulted, on a daily basis. He felt threatened, on a daily basis. Again, I'm not saying he's right for what he did - he's definitely not. But it goes to show, humans are complex creatures.

 

Love: why do we love? Because love is a feeling of comfort, of protection. THe people we love make us feel safe and secure. We know we're okay around them. We need people around us who can reassure us that we're okay, that we're not threatened. We need people who can help boost our ego. Because when they're not around, the sense of threat is magnified.

[RecordProducer]

Buddhism is basically a religion that encourages training and taming The Mind. Stripping away all of the illusory, damaging, self-destructive hankering, yearning, clinging and grasping we all "suffer" from. That's what is meant when we hear Buddhists say that Life is "suffering". It doesn't mean that it's a constant wailing, depressive gnashing of teeth, and a 'what's it all for anyway?' kind of suffering. It's the kind of suffering that makes us want to be in Control, for Fear of losing it.

Thanks, Geisha. Now I am intrigued by Buddhism.

 

Never forget we came from that world, and it wasn't long ago that we left it, either. Then again...when you look at all the wars we fight, maybe you could make the argument that we've never really left it at all.

Great post, A. That's another interesting theory of evil. When my 8-year old son asked me once "How come it takes Nature such a long time to make little evolutionary changes, but the man made such gigantic technological changes in a very short time?," it got me thinking how the man has surpassed and outsmarted nature (which we all know). The "Goddess" has created a monster.

 

As you said, the man is just an animal like the lion with a killing instinct. But without technology, the instinct wouldn't have been so harmful. Violence would have never acquired global dimensions. Without technology, Hitler would never be able to kill more than several people (if he fought with stones, fire and wood). Technology, including media, and civilization (organized religions), have contributed to mass killing. Nature never planned to create such a maniac who will be able to destroy the whole world - the job that she has been doing for billions of years.

 

Boy, I love this thread... I learned so much from you, guys.

[alphamale]

Sin is mentioned in the bible, but what is your idea of sin? Which sins are the worst? Why?

Sin is something that is created in the human mind due to religious influence. Therefore, australeopithecus africanus probably had no need for the concept of sin 1.5 million year ago. Today, we do need a concept of sin but it really does not prevent people from doing bad things anyways. So what is the point?