I kissed a married man and am falling in love!

[Tomcat33]

Absolutely, the choice comes from within. The beauty of a place like LS is having so many choices staring you in the face, some choices that never occurred to you. The final choice resides with you.

 

That's exactly my point! Glad you go it.

[Trialbyfire]

That's exactly my point! Glad you go it.

I did but the part I'm trying to emphasize is that LS provides more choices than people might have personally thought of in the first place. Once they see it on LS, some do change their minds and take other courses of action. Not everyone continues with their preconceived notions.

[Tomcat33]

I did but the part I'm trying to emphasize is that LS provides more choices than people might have personally thought of in the first place. Once they see it on LS, some do change their minds and take other courses of action. Not everyone continues with their preconceived notions.

 

I don't doubt that but I find that it's the people who are already determined to make a change or who are on the fence are the ones who will actually take it all in.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't doubt that but I find that it's the people who are already determined to make a change or who are on the fence are the ones who will actually take it all in.

There are many reasons why people post on LS, the above being one of them...

 

If people are only posting on LS to get someone to agree with them and justify their actions, it would greatly surprise me. Most individuals are thinking individuals so advice is sometimes taken in subconsciously.

[Touche]

That's exactly my point! Glad you go it.

 

Well, that's not what I thought you were saying. I understood you to say that people have already made up their minds before they even post.

 

But that's not always the case. As Trial pointed out, on LS we are presented with choices regarding just about any situation. choices that we would have never thought of on our own. I think many of us have done something differently than we originally had planned based on the responses here.

 

I know I have.

[Tomcat33]

Well, that's not what I thought you were saying. I understood you to say that people have already made up their minds before they even post.

 

But that's not always the case. As Trial pointed out, on LS we are presented with choices regarding just about any situation. choices that we would have never thought of on our own. I think many of us have done something differently than we originally had planned based on the responses here.

 

I know I have.

 

Yes that is what I was saying, if you notice a lot of the time when people ask a question (in life in general) they already pretty much know what they are going to do they are just looking for reassurance to do it, but at the end of the day they will do what they are already feeling even if it negates all the opposition from everyone's advice. To a certain degree people tend to convince themselves before they even put it out there.

 

How many times do we have people close to us ask us for advice yet they go ahead and do the opposite anyway? If it's a crisis situation and they feel desperately in need of guidance I find people are more open to being lead down the right path.

 

the level of uncertainty usually coincides with the level of discomfort.

[Trimmer]

Everyone here is well-meaning but we all know it's not going to do the least bit of good.

 

I think maybe we should try a different approach with new posters in this category because this method doesn't work. Let's tell them to go for it!

Let's tell them that we can't see a reason not to. Let's tell them that he's their solemate, that it's true love, not lust, that if it weren't for them....

 

I totally agree with this post. People don't come here looking for a reason to stop what they are doing, they have already made up their minds....

 

No, no I understand that and it's not that I am painting all OW with the same brush it's just that it doesn't matter who posts for help, more often than not people know what they are going to do before they even post the query. The choice comes from within.

 

I understood you to say that people have already made up their minds before they even post.

 

Yes that is what I was saying, if you notice a lot of the time when people ask a question (in life in general) they already pretty much know what they are going to do....

 

So Tomcat, even though you say "more often than not" and "a lot of the time", it sounded like you are still ready to give up on the small proportion who might be open to change when you agreed with sweetscarlet that we should just tell them all to go for it...

 

I think it's worth engaging posters - even self-deluded ones - in thoughtful discussion for several reasons: (1) occasionally, if not often, someone's path may be changed - slightly, if not completely - by our discussions, (2) it is still worth persuing the small successes, for example if someone who is already in an affair gets enough strength to make a move for the better sooner than they would have otherwise; sweetscarlet seems to only count if an affair is "totally prevented"; (3) there are a lot of lurkers who read these boards - we will never know how many of them might be influenced by our discussions, and (4) if and when they do crash, sad as it may be, they know where to come back for thoughtful support, as opposed to a place that would give out cynical and sarcastic advice like "go for it! ...we can't see a reason not to...." and so on.

 

If you get tired of giving out good advice - if it starts to seem futile - leave for a while and come back at a later date; don't start intentionally giving out bad advice.

[Ripples]

There is a huge difference between the women who recognise exactly what it is that they are doing (some even recognise why) and those women who are so delusional that it's patently obvious nothing anyone says will convince them to think again about what they are doing.

 

I personally feel that Fun2BMe is one of these women. So self-obsessed that she is unable to see the consequences of her actions on other people, and even if she were to, would not consider the hurt caused to others as important enough to stop her doing what she wants. So, I'm with SS on this as the only way women like Fun2BMe learn is through getting hurt themselves.

 

"Oh, but out lurrrvvve is different to anyone else's. He's my soul mate"

 

Right, I hope you still think that when you're posting on LS on a Saturday night, drinking your £3 bottle of plonk waiting for a married man to send you a picture of his dick.

[Trimmer]

So, I'm with SS on this as the only way women like Fun2BMe learn is through getting hurt themselves.

 

"Oh, but out lurrrvvve is different to anyone else's. He's my soul mate"

I agree in those cases, but I'm not with SS that it's true in all cases, nor that you should therefore tell them to go jump in and help push them over the ledge. Why not just step away and save yourself the frustration?

 

Right, I hope you still think that when you're posting on LS on a Saturday night, drinking your £3 bottle of plonk waiting for a married man to send you a picture of his dick.

Oh, and thank you for that image!!! :D

[Ripples]

I guess I'm agreeing with both of you. Yes, some women are obviously struggling, genuinely; and want support in making a healthy decision and I would want to see them getting that support, even if I weren't able to offer it.

 

However, I do believe that there are some women where its obvious that they are merely looking for affirmation of their actions. I mean who could argue with that kind of luuurrrvveee?

 

Glad you liked the image

[Trimmer]

Glad you liked the image

Right then; now I'm going to go rinse my eyes out with bleach, and then relax and sip gently at my £3 bottle of plonk...

[Tomcat33]

So Tomcat, even though you say "more often than not" and "a lot of the time", it sounded like you are still ready to give up on the small proportion who might be open to change when you agreed with sweetscarlet that we should just tell them all to go for it...

 

I think it's worth engaging posters - even self-deluded ones - in thoughtful discussion for several reasons: (1) occasionally, if not often, someone's path may be changed - slightly, if not completely - by our discussions, (2) it is still worth persuing the small successes, for example if someone who is already in an affair gets enough strength to make a move for the better sooner than they would have otherwise; sweetscarlet seems to only count if an affair is "totally prevented"; (3) there are a lot of lurkers who read these boards - we will never know how many of them might be influenced by our discussions, and (4) if and when they do crash, sad as it may be, they know where to come back for thoughtful support, as opposed to a place that would give out cynical and sarcastic advice like "go for it! ...we can't see a reason not to...." and so on.

 

If you get tired of giving out good advice - if it starts to seem futile - leave for a while and come back at a later date; don't start intentionally giving out bad advice.

 

 

I never get tired of giving good advice. There are those threads though that are so ridiculous in how self absorbed these people are that there is not changing their minds no matter what anyone says, and you see pages and pages and pages of people saying, "NO, STOP don't do it, that's so wrong, think of all the people you are hurting how could you..." and all the OP does is argue their way with every single poster, well then to those threads I agree with doing with what SS is saying, it's best to tell them "that's right go on and do it, your choice is mint!" Because telling them otherwise really proves futile.

 

Again, I really don't think we should be so egocentric to think that we could change someone's mind from our words alone, that change comes from within that of the individual's and yes only then will they be open to suggestions. In the case like in this thread, she is NOT open to suggestion at all. So 10 pages of reasons why she shouldn't, really isn't going to help her at all.

 

K? So you go right ahead and conntinue to tell her to stop and I will sit here and state my opinion. In a month she will still be back here asking for more advice she is NOT going to take. So I choose to not waste my good advice on those who don't want to hear and rather than add the same thing that everyone has already said a million times, I choose to state my opinion. That's what LS is for: everyone's opinions correct? But that's my choice.

[whichwayisup]

So 10 pages of reasons why she shouldn't, really isn't going to help her at all.

 

So what? It's giving advice, sharing our thoughts.

 

She posted knowing that she'd get all sorts of replies, otherwise, why did she announce it? People have opinions...And she's a long time poster, so most of us are going to reply to her post. She seems not to have a problem with it, why do YOU have a problem with it?

 

Maybe take the time and get to know some posters instead of just attacking them because you don't like what is being said. Do you know her past history? Have you taken the time to go read her past posts? If you did, then you would know why we're all trying to open her eyes, trying to help to prevent her from hurting herself.

[Art_Critic]

I never get tired of giving good advice. There are those threads though that are so ridiculous in how self absorbed these people are that there is not changing their minds no matter what anyone says, and you see pages and pages and pages of people saying, "NO, STOP don't do it, that's so wrong, think of all the people you are hurting how could you..." and all the OP does is argue their way with every single poster, well then to those threads I agree with doing with what SS is saying, it's best to tell them "that's right go on and do it, your choice is mint!" Because telling them otherwise really proves futile.

 

Again, I really don't think we should be so egocentric to think that we could change someone's mind from our words alone, that change comes from within that of the individual's and yes only then will they be open to suggestions. In the case like in this thread, she is NOT open to suggestion at all. So 10 pages of reasons why she shouldn't, really isn't going to help her at all.

 

K? So you go right ahead and conntinue to tell her to stop and I will sit here and state my opinion. In a month she will still be back here asking for more advice she is NOT going to take. So I choose to not waste my good advice on those who don't want to hear and rather than add the same thing that everyone has already said a million times, I choose to state my opinion. That's what LS is for: everyone's opinions correct? But that's my choice.

 

I'm not normally too blunt.. But we have a saying in the AA we use for newcomers on occasion and it seems it might need to be repeated here..

 

" Open your ears and shut your mouth " or " Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth "

 

Offering advice to be helpful is cool but offering Anti-Advice to be spiteful is just wrong...

[Tomcat33]

I'm not normally too blunt.. But we have a saying in the AA we use for newcomers on occasion and it seems it might need to be repeated here..

 

" Open your ears and shut your mouth " or " Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth "

 

Offering advice to be helpful is cool but offering Anti-Advice to be spiteful is just wrong...

 

 

Again, you have your point of view and I have mine. What's right for you may be wrong for me and vice versa.

[greengoddess]

Again, you have your point of view and I have mine. What's right for you may be wrong for me and vice versa.

 

Yes because you have very different morals than the majority. You cheer on an ow and encourage her to just do what makes her happy. You do not take into consideration the consequences of that action. Most peoples morals lead them to think of others and the consequences not just their own shortterm happiness.

[Art_Critic]

Again, you have your point of view and I have mine. What's right for you may be wrong for me and vice versa.

 

 

.... did you even read my post ?.. I guess not...

[Tomcat33]

Yes because you have very different morals than the majority. You cheer on an ow and encourage her to just do what makes her happy. You do not take into consideration the consequences of that action. Most peoples morals lead them to think of others and the consequences not just their own shortterm happiness.

 

 

LOL please point out where I've done that. I don't encourage anyone to do anything they haven't already chosen to do themselves. That's where you miss the point

[Tomcat33]

.... did you even read my post ?.. I guess not...

 

 

Yes I did read your post. Is the only proof that I read it that I agree with your point of view? Or can you accept that we don't see eye to eye?

Because I can.

[whichwayisup]

How is discouraging various posters what kind of advice to offer the OP, helpful?

 

If you want to support FUN and her MM to go for it and have an affair, do so...But, don't expect anyone else to offer her up that advice. And don't bash them for their advice if it isn't what YOU think it should be.

[pelagicsands]

I think they're probably together on the peak of Mount Everest right now. Metaphorically, of course (it's not the best place to stretch out a picnic blanket). Sparks flying everywhere.

[Trimmer]

LOL please point out where I've done that. I don't encourage anyone to do anything they haven't already chosen to do themselves. That's where you miss the point

The point I'm not missing is that you are encouraging someone to do something that you, yourself, understand to be a destructive path. Just because you believe that it's something she has already chosen to do doesn't mitigate the cynicism and sarcasm of what you suggest.

 

I hope you are not a suicide counselor...

[whichwayisup]

There are those threads though that are so ridiculous in how self absorbed these people are that there is not changing their minds no matter what anyone says, and you see pages and pages and pages of people saying, "NO, STOP don't do it, that's so wrong, think of all the people you are hurting how could you..."

 

How is pointing out the obvious to someone who is about to help a MM cheat on his wife, bad advice? How is telling them "hey, what about the other innocent people? His children, his wife" bad to say? How is telling them "you are making a mistake and it's wrong to cheat" BAD to say to someone??

 

In all honesty, if an OW/OM stand up in a crowded room full of strangers, then stood up and shushed everyone, then said "HEY EVERYONE!! I'm gonna go have an affair with a MM!!!" How the heck do you think people would react?

[Tomcat33]

The point I'm not missing is that you are encouraging someone to do something that you, yourself, understand to be a destructive path. Just because you believe that it's something she has already chosen to do doesn't mitigate the cynicism and sarcasm of what you suggest.

 

I hope you are not a suicide counselor...

 

Actually I did volunteer work with kids for a long time, a lot of these kids were troubled and needed a shoulder to cry on or simple guidance. I have some experience in councelling kids in despair. In fact one of the first things they teach you to ask a person thinking of commiting suicide is how they will do it and what steps they plan to take to commit the act. you ask them to play out what will happen and you listen. From there you decide how serious they are about doing what they say they plan to do.

 

sometimes just because you don't understand the theory behind a certain action it doesn't mean that it's what it appears.

[Tomcat33]

you see if some people were smart they would try to help someone out by winning their trust first and THEN let them know how you feel and why it makes sense to do things the right way or whatever your agenda is.

 

instead of plowing them with THAT'S WRONG YOU ARE WRONG FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND YOU WILL BE MISERABLE.

 

different techniques I suppose...

 

So don't be so concernded with the advice I give, you stick to your technique and I will stick to mine. The point of the thread is not who gives good advice and who doesn't it's to give advice and help. you do your part and I'll do mine.