Walk Away Wife in Progress

[Walkaway]

Hi,

 

It's interesting reading so many posts from men who don't understand why their wife wants to leave them - I'm the one on the other side.

 

I've been with my spouse for 20 years - we met when I was 23, I'm 43 now. Over the years I have grown more and more unhappy, I've become a nasty person, constantly filled with rage. I went into therapy two years ago when I felt like I was a living pot of boiling water, constantly at risk of scalding other people. After spending time trying to understand my rage I realized I was constantly pushing down my emotions, constantly repressing the frustration and sadness engendered by my relationship with my husband. I have no outlet for the sadness and despair I feel - there is no one who really cares or understands other than my kids and I can't burden them. I can't live my life in therapy and my husband is of less use than a message-board - at least here I can be sure of some constructive replies, rather than a dose of ice-cold rejection.

 

Okay, so everyone thinks "Couples Therapy" - but therapy is all about being honest and open and that's the problem - my husband doesn't even think he has emotions to be open about. The only emotion he is in touch with is anger and irritation (is that an emotion?). He's never sad, never afectionate, never caring. He SAYS he cares but words that aren't backed up with actions are meaningless. I know that he does care in his cold way but we're essentially incompatible - he lives in a sterile emotionless world, possibly built up by his childhood - his parents had a lousy marriage and his father taught him not to cry by hitting him when he did. I am not that kind of a person - I need to feel. I need to love and be loved, be angry and sad and all the other messy emotions. I tried to be a stiff-upper-lip type and look where it got me? Rage-filled and miserable. If we go into therapy (and yes, we did try in the past) this is what will happen - I will pour my heart out and my husband will sit there like a log and coldly counter everything I say: I'm exaggerating, I'm not appreciative of his efforts, he does his best. He doesn't get it, it's about feelings and he just doesn't understand the value of having or expressive feelings. Expressing yourself in therapy only helps when the other person can really listen and after 20 years I'm pretty sure he's incapable of it.

 

I'd have left him two years ago but we have kids - two darling, happy adorable girls 6 and 10. I can't stand to make their world crumble and yet - what am I doing, lying to them that Mommy and Daddy are happy when I'm really just waiting out until they're in college and I can be free of this awful albatross we call a marriage? I hate to be dishonest with them, I hate to set them up for future disillusionment and yet all the experts say it's better for kids whose parents are in low-conflict bad marriages to stick together.

 

Lately I've been reconsidering the staying together because I realize I have so mentally walked-away from this marriage that it's past saving. I don't even bother to try any more. I'm burnt out, used up and completely disenfranchised. I thought about what would happen if my spouse got badly hurt and my first reaction wasn't sadness or fear - it was concern that it would tie me to him further.

 

I know this sounds awful - I sound heartless and cold but if I am, frankly, my marriage made me this way. I want to be free, not from people or responsibility, but from this emotional oppression. I want to be free to be happy again. But I know that complete freedom isn't really an option - I will still need to deal with him regarding the kids and they will have to live with two households and there would be strong and negative emotional and financial fallout from a split - part of me thinks it's worth it just to be able to live honestly again, part of me doesn't.

 

The funny thing is I read a lot of men thinking their wives want to be free so they can date other people - take it from one wife that that is the LAST thing I want. If and when I do get out of this marriage I never want to get into another.

[sumdude]

I wish I had something more constuctive to say. If he is unwilling or incapable of satifying your emotional needs what can you do? Seems as though you've done you part.

 

Remember one thing, even if your husband is gone from your life those feelings will probably still be there. No one can make you feel a certain way unless you allow it.

[Woggle]

If you are this unhappy why not just leave? Do you hate him that much that you can't even deal with him as far as the kids go? From what you say it sounds like the only thing he has done wrong is not being the most touchy feely guy. I am convinced that with some women no matter what a man does she will never be happy. Some women are just impossible to please and men need to stop beating their heads against the wall trying to please them.

[My Fair Katie]

From what you say it sounds like the only thing he has done wrong is not being the most touchy feely guy.

 

Hmm, I read it as what he's doing wrong is not only not being touchy-feely, but being aggravated that he married someone who is and who is NOT conforming to his idea of a stoic lifestyle with a stiff upper lip. However, I could be projecting things from own my marriage.

 

I am convinced that with some women no matter what a man does she will never be happy. Some women are just impossible to please and men need to stop beating their heads against the wall trying to please them.

 

I don't think she's being impossible to please. She's tired of hiding emotions because her husband doesn't like dealing with them. She's about to powder keg from constantly feeling as though she must bury her feelings because when she does express them he counters them. It sounds like she has to walk on eggshells around him and that's making her miserable. It doesn't sound like her husband is trying much of anything. Of course I don't have his side of the story...

 

Good luck walkaway.

[Woggle]

Women need to stop trying to turn men into women. These female emotions are what female friends are for. Men for the most part don't deal with emotions the same way women do but women keep trying to force men into a female box and end up gettiung frustrated when it doesn't work. If women accepted men the way they we are things would run a whole lot better. You can't make your husband into another one of the girls.

[Ladyjane14]

Women need to stop trying to turn men into women. These female emotions are what female friends are for. Men for the most part don't deal with emotions the same way women do but women keep trying to force men into a female box and end up gettiung frustrated when it doesn't work. If women accepted men the way they we are things would run a whole lot better. You can't make your husband into another one of the girls.

 

Actually Woggle... that's the secret of my marital success in alot of ways. I stopped expecting him to be at my pace in terms of emotional function. When it comes to identifying and processing emotions through the old data bank.. I've got the interstate highway, and all he's got is a winding-ass country road.

That's just the way male and female brains are wired.

 

What I've learned is that he needs more time to process emotions. He eventually arrives at a destination. But I'm liable to see some frustration on his part before he does. When I back off and give him some extra time to sort himself out, he does alright.

 

Not to say that the OP's husband isn't a butt. Maybe he is. I don't know.

[Woggle]

Actually Woggle... that's the secret of my marital success in alot of ways. I stopped expecting him to be at my pace in terms of emotional function. When it comes to identifying and processing emotions through the old data bank.. I've got the interstate highway, and all he's got is a winding-ass country road.

That's just the way male and female brains are wired.

 

What I've learned is that he needs more time to process emotions. He eventually arrives at a destination. But I'm liable to see some frustration on his part before he does. When I back off and give him some extra time to sort himself out, he does alright.

 

Not to say that the OP's husband isn't a butt. Maybe he is. I don't know.

 

Exactly. Women do a lot of weird stuff that men don't get but men for the most don't try to make women into men. Women keep trying to make their husbands into a women and end up getting frustrated when it doesn't happen. I actually think the way men deal with emotion for the most part is healthier. Men see a problem and they fix it while women see a problem and they have to analyze it and pick it apart ad nauseum. I actually think women could learn a lot from men.

[Walkaway]

It amuses me to have someone consider me "hard to please" when I've been trying to make things work out for 2 decades!

 

but whatever.

 

No, I don't hate him - he's a good person, a decent father and an excellent worker. I give him credit for all kinds of positive qualities, he's just a lousy husband.

 

Am I trying to make him into a "girl"? Gosh, if only women express themselves or have feelings or show any emotion, then yes. If only women can talk through a problem rather than withdrawing beneath a sheet of ice and refusing to talk to their spouse for a week, I guess I am. But I must know a lot of girly-men because I don't think that being loving and caring are purely female characteristics. My Dad could express love and so can my brother. They both had/have excellent marriages. I don't think that's pure coincidence.

[Woggle]

Your mother and your sister in law probably hate their husbands as well. I am the only man that actually seems to have a good marriage.

[Walkaway]

If you are this unhappy why not just leave?

 

Maybe you should read my post. I think I covered why I haven't left - I have responsibilities to my kids as well as to myself and I need to think of their well-being as well as my own.

[Walkaway]

Your mother and your sister in law probably hate their husbands as well. I am the only man that actually seems to have a good marriage.

Actually my mother was devastated when my dad died 9 years ago and still mourns. But I'm glad your wife appreciates you for who you are.

 

No offense, but would you mind not posting any more replies? I really didn't join this board so I could learn about your personal male-female philosophy, I'd like to hear advice and responses from people who have lived under similar circumstances. And you apparently have a blissful marriage so you can't really understand much of what's going on in mine.

[annabelle75]

Don't listen to all the "you're just impossible to please..blah blah" crap. I know where you are coming from. I think we might have been married to the same man. Its impossible to nuture a relationship with some one that is emotionally absent from it. It wears down your self esteem and your ability to love them. A man can have genuine feelings for his wife with out being all girlie and mushy about it.

 

My marriage died from severe emotional neglect. Its impossible to care about some one that shows no signs of caring about you. For a long time I thought that maybe I was expecting to much from him. It wasn't until the pastor of my church finally told me that his behavior wasn't normal or right and he was surprised I held out and stayed as long as I did. I stayed for the sake of my daughter and it wasn't until one night when he came home three hours late from work with no explanation of why and I realized I didn't care that I knew it was time to leave. When you reach a point that you almost wish you could catch them having and affair or that maybe they just don't come one one day, you need to leave. It doesn't do you or your children any good to stay.

[PWSX3]

Hi,

Okay, so everyone thinks "Couples Therapy" - but therapy is all about being honest and open and that's the problem - my husband doesn't even think he has emotions to be open about. The only emotion he is in touch with is anger and irritation (is that an emotion?). He's never sad, never afectionate, never caring. He SAYS he cares but words that aren't backed up with actions are meaningless. I know that he does care in his cold way but we're essentially incompatible - he lives in a sterile emotionless world, possibly built up by his childhood - his parents had a lousy marriage and his father taught him not to cry by hitting him when he did. I am not that kind of a person - I need to feel. I need to love and be loved, be angry and sad and all the other messy emotions. I tried to be a stiff-upper-lip type and look where it got me? Rage-filled and miserable. If we go into therapy (and yes, we did try in the past) this is what will happen - I will pour my heart out and my husband will sit there like a log and coldly counter everything I say:

Me & my W went to counseling 5 years ago & looking back I can see I did a lot of this. I wanted to show the MC that I was right, that what I was doing was just helping my W because she wasn't doing it my way so I figured she was doing it wrong. I didn't really get it either, it took a while but boy do I get it now. I really thought I was doing the right thing and maybe your H is thinking the same thing.

I'm exaggerating, I'm not appreciative of his efforts, he does his best. He doesn't get it, it's about feelings and he just doesn't understand the value of having or expressive feelings. Expressing yourself in therapy only helps when the other person can really listen and after 20 years I'm pretty sure he's incapable of it.

I was married for 25 years before my W moved out & I still might have trouble listening, but I do a lot better now. If your H really wants the marriage to work, I feel he can change, but HE HAS TO want to change and unless that happens there isn't much you can do.

I'd have left him two years ago but we have kids - two darling, happy adorable girls 6 and 10. I can't stand to make their world crumble and yet - what am I doing, lying to them that Mommy and Daddy are happy when I'm really just waiting out until they're in college and I can be free of this awful albatross we call a marriage? I hate to be dishonest with them, I hate to set them up for future disillusionment and yet all the experts say it's better for kids whose parents are in low-conflict bad marriages to stick together.

 

Lately I've been reconsidering the staying together because I realize I have so mentally walked-away from this marriage that it's past saving. I don't even bother to try any more. I'm burnt out, used up and completely disenfranchised. I thought about what would happen if my spouse got badly hurt and my first reaction wasn't sadness or fear - it was concern that it would tie me to him further.

 

I know this sounds awful - I sound heartless and cold but if I am, frankly, my marriage made me this way. I want to be free, not from people or responsibility, but from this emotional oppression. I want to be free to be happy again. But I know that complete freedom isn't really an option - I will still need to deal with him regarding the kids and they will have to live with two households and there would be strong and negative emotional and financial fallout from a split - part of me thinks it's worth it just to be able to live honestly again, part of me doesn't.

 

The funny thing is I read a lot of men thinking their wives want to be free so they can date other people - take it from one wife that that is the LAST thing I want. If and when I do get out of this marriage I never want to get into another.

It sounds like you are just staying together for the kids. Do you really think doing that is being honest with your kids?

You don't think it is hurting them when you guys fight or argue?

 

I remember reading someplace here that someone separated & there daughter asked; what took so long?

 

No matter what you do it won't be easy. You have to way both sides and decide which one you are happy with, not which one will be easier.

[Walkaway]

When you reach a point that you almost wish you could catch them having and affair or that maybe they just don't come one one day, you need to leave. It doesn't do you or your children any good to stay.

THANK YOU, Annabelle! It feels better just knowing someone else got to this point - I have been feeling guilty over how much I just don't care any more. I was actually contemplating how nice it would be if he'd find someone else, but he wouldn't.

 

My dilemma is "the experts" keep saying that children are better off if parents stay in low-conflict marriages. And we are very low-conflict, we don't fight much because he "isn't there" and I "don't care". My girls love their Dad, especially the younger one - they don't see much of him as it is but I know they'd miss having him come in at night and being there in the morning. It just breaks my heart to think of hurting them - they really are pretty happy and secure now with things the way they are.

[Walkaway]

It sounds like you are just staying together for the kids. Do you really think doing that is being honest with your kids?

You don't think it is hurting them when you guys fight or argue?

 

I remember reading someplace here that someone separated & there daughter asked; what took so long?

 

No matter what you do it won't be easy. You have to way both sides and decide which one you are happy with, not which one will be easier.

Thanks for the feedback on counselling, PWS - it's something to think about.

No, I don't think we're being honest at all and it troubles me. However, as I mentioned, we really don't fight or argue. We don't communicate much at all - we can decide things around the house peacefully but we don't really talk other than that. In that way we're more like roommates than spouses.

[Gunny376]

I agree with LJ and Woggle and the points that they make ~ men aren't women, and its been scientifically proven over and over again that most men can't think and express emotion like women.

[sIZE=2][/sIZE][sIZE=3][/sIZE]

[sIZE=3]But to me WWW ~ you're coming across to me as wanting and needing a little loving, a little tenderness, a little romance, some appreciation, some validation of your feelings as a woman. And, a little bit empathy instead of apathy for your feelings ~ instead of outright resentment and anger from your DH. [/sIZE]

 

When I first read your original post ~ I thought, "Gee, it goes the other direction ~ she'll won't to dump him for being too weak minded, emotional, etc. But, then I got to thinking about balance of the two extremes?

Women file the majority of the divorce decrees, and the number reason they list is emotional neglect

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

 

and

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_care.html

[PWSX3]

Gunny is right, us guys think a LOT different then woman do. I'm not saying the way we do it is right or wrong, but we just process things different.

 

Just like in one of the books I read & it hit home so well for me. Your W comes out with a red & blue dress. She askes you what color would look best on me? You tell her the red one would look very nice and so she goes back to the bedroom & comes out wearing the blue one. The first thing the guy says to himself is; WTF did she ask me if she didn't listen?

 

In a guys mind he thought everything out, and came up with the solution within seconds, were the woman needed that communication, then she goes to the bedroom & processes everything and comes up with her choice.

 

It sounds to me like you have given your marriage all you can & you haven't gotten anything in return. I also feel there is a LACK of communication and like you said it has made you just roommates.

 

Have you discussed your feeling with your H and if so what does he say? If he isn't home that often maybe he thinks things are fine. Believe it or not if you would have asked me if my marriage was O.K. before my W moved out I would have said; things are O.K. Boy have I learned alot since then.

 

You also have to remember the hardest thing for a person to do is blame themselves for there mistakes. To take responsibity for there own issues. It is a lot easier to blame your spouse then it is to look at yourself. Like I said when we would go to counseling I had a reason everytime for why my W did this or that, but what I didn't do is look at myself to understand what I wasn't doing.

 

As people probably know I beleive you need to try everything you can do to make a marriage work, then if it doesn't you are able to say; I did my best & it just wasn't meant to be.

 

A couple good books that helped me are; The Five Love Languages, & His Needs, Her Needs. See if your local library has them or just buy them so you can highlight the heck out of them.

[Gunny376]

Another good book that sounds as though it might be applicable to your situation: Why Men Don't Get Enought Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love" by Johnathan Kramer PhD& Diane Dunaway, Pocket Books, ISBN 0-671-68977-0

[annabelle75]

It seems to me that most everyone here is making alot of assumptions in their responses to the OP. I'm actually a bit offended by everyone just assuming that she doesn't recognize that he is just being a normal guy and she is expecting him to be more like a girl.

 

I guess if you have never been in a situation like hers, you might find it hard to understand, but telling her that she is the problem is rather pressumptuous. I'm convinced half of you didn't even read her entire post becasue you keep suggesting things (like MC, whihc he is opposed to) she already addressed.

 

I'm thinking most of you think "emotional neglect" means he doesn't tell her she is pretty enough or buy her roses all the time. It really has nothing to do with anything like that. My husband reached such a neglectful point emotionally that for the last three years of our marriage he didn't kiss me once. He would also only sleep with me once every two to three months, if I asked for it. Any sort of intimacy was treated like a chore. He was a good father and very likable, so people didn't understand when I finally left him. The reality was that he liked having me around to take care of our kid, pay the bills and clean up after him but he had little use for me otherwise. He was like a very high maintenance rommate.

 

Although people say that if there is "low-conflict" it is best to stay together for the kids I have learned that children are much happier not living in a house fileld with veiled contempt.

[MJTig]

Women need to stop trying to turn men into women. These female emotions are what female friends are for. Men for the most part don't deal with emotions the same way women do but women keep trying to force men into a female box and end up gettiung frustrated when it doesn't work. If women accepted men the way they we are things would run a whole lot better. You can't make your husband into another one of the girls.

 

maybe some of the extra feelings, but you need to be able to share frustration and care for each other. My DH is very much a man and there are things I don't bother him with that i chat about with the girls. But he generally shows care and love towards me and I toward him (if he is having a bad day he talks about it or vents eventually). If there is something i am upset about he wants to know and wants to help- I don't want to turn him into a girl, but I would expect some warmth and care from him.

 

This guy sounds like a complete icebox.

[Walkaway]

Thanks for the responses.

 

MJ, he doesn't mean to be - he's really a decent person and he cares in his way. But he takes any indication that he's not making me happy as a personal insult and that makes him withdraw, which is the worst thing possible.

 

It's true - emotional neglect has nothing to do with bringing flowers and everything to do with being present in the marriage. I've said for years that I'm essentially part of the furniture - if I was gone, he might notice but since I'm here, what's to pay attention to?

 

The "Men can't get enough sex" thing is kind of a case in point - this is so not the problem here. I'm perfectly happy to have sex any night but he's always too stressed, too busy, has other priorities. He doesn't even come to bed until past midnight and even though I've said I'd like to have sex more often, it's never on his "to do" list. I'm never on his "to do" list.

 

He knows I feel this way, I told him honestly a couple of years ago that I figured we'd be divorced when the kids were older. I said I'd go to counselling but he had to commit to it and set it up - and he never has. And yes, we've spoken about it since then - fixing our marriage just hasn't been on his to do list either.

[annabelle75]

I hope you haven’t been discouraged from posting here because of some of the replies you have received. Maybe not everyone here understands what you are struggling with right now, but there are some that do. The decision you are facing is a very difficult one. Only you can decide what is right for you and your family. No one here knows what’s best for you, not even me even though I was in a very similar situation. But I thought I would share this with you so you might feel a bit of hope ……….

 

After 8 years of being so completely neglected by husband I finally gave up. I had tried everything I could, even going to counseling on my own since he wouldn’t go with me. I became emotionally numb towards him and eventually was falling into a depression. Leaving was not easy. I discovered that he was completely content with our life together. It met all his needs and he had no desire for it to end. The first six months were like a nightmare. He accused me of abandoning him and his family even hired and attorney in an attempt to get full custody of our daughter. They were accusing me of abandoning my child, even though she was living with me at the time (duh). They were doing everything you could imagine to punish me for leaving and I felt so much guilt I could hardly get out of bed in the morning.

 

Fast forward to almost two years later ……………

 

Last night I had dinner at my ex-husband’s house with our daughter like we do one night every week. We have 50/50 custody of our daughter and try to still spend as much time together as a family as we can. Tomorrow we are taking her ice skating. Now we don’t only do this for her but for ourselves as well. In the last two years we have built a solid and respectful friendship. It took time but he eventually realized that he had never loved and wanted me the way that a husband should have. He understands now why I had to leave and we have both grown a lot over these past years. With out all the pressures of marriage we have been able to reconnect as friends and revisit the reasons why we were initially drawn together.

 

We were both good people, but just not suited to be married to each other. We know that now.

 

I can’t tell you how things will be for you, but I thought you might find some encouragement in knowing that no matter how bleak it may look, sometimes things can work out for the best.

 

Hang in there and be honest with yourself and those around you. Holding it all in will just make it worse.

[Walkaway]

That's really a great inspiration Annabelle - I am afraid of what's going to happen to my children if I rock this boat and it's nice to know it can work out for the best. I feel like I'm reaching my limit of being able to "hold it all in" so I need something positive to contemplate!

 

I'm really impressed you were able to get past the resentment you must have felt during/after the divorce to forge a friendly and positive relationship with your ex. How did he come to a better perspective of your marriage? Was it just living alone that made him aware of what your old role used to be or did you two keep talking as you went through the divorce or did he eventually go to a counsellor or therapist himself?

[Guest]

It seems to me that most everyone here is making alot of assumptions in their responses to the OP. I'm actually a bit offended by everyone just assuming that she doesn't recognize that he is just being a normal guy and she is expecting him to be more like a girl.

 

Why would you be offended? I read her entire post and all she does is complain. Perhaps that's why her husband became emotionally distant. Having a constant nag in your ear all the time would make tune her out as well. Her post rather wreaks of selfishness, she can't seem to make herself happy and decides it is her husbands fault. She's an emotional leech and instead of putting all that energy into learning to make herself happy, she just complains some more.

 

I guess if you have never been in a situation like hers, you might find it hard to understand, but telling her that she is the problem is rather pressumptuous. I'm convinced half of you didn't even read her entire post becasue you keep suggesting things (like MC, whihc he is opposed to) she already addressed.

 

People have been in similar situations as hers, probably some people here, but everyones pain is personal no matter how similar so in that regard WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO COMPLETELY EMPATHIZE

 

I'm thinking most of you think "emotional neglect" means he doesn't tell her she is pretty enough or buy her roses all the time. It really has nothing to do with anything like that. My husband reached such a neglectful point emotionally that for the last three years of our marriage he didn't kiss me once. He would also only sleep with me once every two to three months, if I asked for it. Any sort of intimacy was treated like a chore

 

Although people say that if there is "low-conflict" it is best to stay together for the kids I have learned that children are much happier not living in a house fileld with veiled contempt.

 

Exactly!! How do you think your husband felt to have reached such an "emotionally neglectful" state. Everyone plays a part in the demise of a relationship, perhaps you should see what your part was, as well as this lady. Instead of whining and complaining about " He would also only sleep with me once every two to three months, if I asked for it. Any sort of intimacy was treated like a chore"

 

Guess what!?! It probably did feel like a chore for him. What do you think was going through his mind? Did you even care or is everything about you? In the case of this thread, you know what..."Walkaway" you should do just that so your husband can heal and find someone with whom he can share his happiness and you can go leech emotionally off of someone else.

[annabelle75]

That's really a great inspiration Annabelle - I am afraid of what's going to happen to my children if I rock this boat and it's nice to know it can work out for the best. I feel like I'm reaching my limit of being able to "hold it all in" so I need something positive to contemplate!

 

I'm really impressed you were able to get past the resentment you must have felt during/after the divorce to forge a friendly and positive relationship with your ex. How did he come to a better perspective of your marriage? Was it just living alone that made him aware of what your old role used to be or did you two keep talking as you went through the divorce or did he eventually go to a counsellor or therapist himself?

 

I think living on his own and shouldering the responsibilities of taking care of our daughter when he had custody opened up his eyes to how much I was really doing for him and our family. He started to see how much effort I had put into our life together and realize that he had put very little if any. It didn't happen over night but he came to understand that a person cannot put so much of themselves into a relationship with little or no reciprocation and be happy.

 

He eventually joined a church (which was a big surprise to me) and started seeking counseling from the pastor.

 

It was not easy for me to let go of all the resentment I had built up over the years but one day I just decided it wasn't worth it to hold onto it anymore. I made a concious choice to just let it go and move on in our relationship as it was entering a new phase.

 

I really have to give him alot of credit. He stepped it up and has been there as a friend in ways that he failed me as a husband. He may have been a horrible husband, but he's really become great ex-husband. Two years ago I would not have thought it possible. I know I am really lucky.