Trimmer Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 ps: Trimmer I think I know which posts you're referring to (301 & 340) (I haven't go back but I bet it is something about my father)... please, unless you have a PhD in psychology...don't try to analyse me... I can very well analyse myself... thank you very much. At my age, I know exactly what I want and what I don't want, and what I want: being single and free; what I don't want: judgement from people who have no idea what my life is and who are so narrow-minded to think that a person can only be happy with a lifetime partner. Well, this gets back to my question of "what motivated you to post," then, and yes I am persistent, but I agree that we're going in circles on that one. I must not be making clear the distinction between "what gives you the right to post" (about which I agree with you, and which is not my question), and "what has motivated you to tell your story, if you don't want judgement, comments, opinions, or discussion?" (It seems like so far, your answer is basically "because I can...") As far as addressing my questions about your parents and your early life, of course no one can psychoanalyze you on an online forum, but that doesn't mean that I am unable to ask thoughtful questions about interesting topics. And given your current outlook and your father's behavior in his marriage, I find those topics really interesting. I was just trying to learn more about you, and you would have found me more open to listening than you may have believed. You told your story; it piqued my interest in learning more about your motivations, both relating to the lifestyle you have chosen and what you sought by posting here. I think given that we have wildly different outlooks, those could still be areas that we could discuss without recrimination and anger; I specifically promised NOT to turn it into some kind of an amateur analysis session that I would shove down your throat. It's your thread; if you don't want to allow the discussion to go in that direction, I will accept that and withdraw. Link to post Share on other sites
scaredinlove Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 No. Wrong. If you're single then the bolded part of your statement would be true. But when you're married both parties actually agree to "belong" to one another. Do you not get that? But it dosent work,marriages don't work! I think that is the problem.The sense of ownership kills the marriage. I might be going thru some crises here but I have very little faith in relationship and even less in marriages. I am yet to see a happy marriage in my life! Or maybe I just being hanging with the wrong crowd. Link to post Share on other sites
scaredinlove Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I don't mean to add more "unhealthiness" to this thread, but I have to wonder what is the point? Why dance around the obvious? Ms. Lizzie is not an OW. She is something else. Something far more "garden variety", KWIM? I mean, forget the fact that some of these men are married. Forget her age, that doesn't always imply wisdom. What else do most folks call a woman that sleeps around in this way? No offense anyone, but this lifestyle of hers doesn't belong on the OW/OM forum either. Unless the W in OW really does stand for wh:eek: re. (I had such a hard time typing that word, let alone submitting it. I personally don't believe in or even feel comfortable with name-calling, but I consider this more *descriptive* like an adjective.) Sorry, Lizzie. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Then it must be a duck. Would it be different if she was a man? Why when woman decid to have fun she is called W**** and man become heroes. I am sure if it was a guy he might been called pleyed ,but that as far as it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Men who sleep with MW are just as bad and to me a bit worse because they are breaking the brotherhood code which says that you never sleep with another man's woman. I have had married women hit on me and even when I was single I told to go away. The men that cheat with her are mostly to blame put that doesn't mean that what she is doing is right. Benefiting from other's misery is wrong just like causing that misery. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 But it dosent work,marriages don't work! I think that is the problem.The sense of ownership kills the marriage. I might be going thru some crises here but I have very little faith in relationship and even less in marriages. I am yet to see a happy marriage in my life! Or maybe I just being hanging with the wrong crowd. I don't believe in long term monogamy either. The divorce rate is something like 50%... and that is not including the long term common law (not compiled in the stats) which is astronomical. We live in a disposable society whether we like it or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Well, this gets back to my question of "what motivated you to post," then, and yes I am persistent, but I agree that we're going in circles on that one. I must not be making clear the distinction between "what gives you the right to post" (about which I agree with you, and which is not my question), and "what has motivated you to tell your story, if you don't want judgement, comments, opinions, or discussion?" (It seems like so far, your answer is basically "because I can...") As far as addressing my questions about your parents and your early life, of course no one can psychoanalyze you on an online forum, but that doesn't mean that I am unable to ask thoughtful questions about interesting topics. And given your current outlook and your father's behavior in his marriage, I find those topics really interesting. I was just trying to learn more about you, and you would have found me more open to listening than you may have believed. You told your story; it piqued my interest in learning more about your motivations, both relating to the lifestyle you have chosen and what you sought by posting here. I think given that we have wildly different outlooks, those could still be areas that we could discuss without recrimination and anger; I specifically promised NOT to turn it into some kind of an amateur analysis session that I would shove down your throat. It's your thread; if you don't want to allow the discussion to go in that direction, I will accept that and withdraw. I said it so many times already... I thought (and still do) that this was an exchange forum for OW/OM... to share our stories. That's all. Why are you trying to see more than what it really is? Link to post Share on other sites
Island Girl Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Would it be different if she was a man? Why when woman decid to have fun she is called W**** and man become heroes. I am sure if it was a guy he might been called pleyed ,but that as far as it goes. No, actually a man in her position would be called a womanizer, letch, or -- my personal favorite -- whore hound -- just to name a few. None of them resemble the word "hero". There are a lot of other words for a woman that does this as well. None of them have any connotation that resembles heroic, or even pleasant, behavior either. Jezebel, which means a wicked and shameless woman, is my favorite. We are not talking about a woman who has fallen in love with just one man - married or not. We are talking about a woman who has MANY lovers, a lot of whom are married, and enjoys the fact that she is getting what she wants no matter the cost to others. It is not the behavior of a man or woman with any amount of integrity. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Would it be different if she was a man? Why when woman decid to have fun she is called W**** and man become heroes. I am sure if it was a guy he might been called pleyed ,but that as far as it goes. It's sad but it's the reality... I call that double standard... OK for men but wrong for women. Men who have many lovers are called the 'bad boys', and the women love 'bad boys' and they secretly wish they can change and transform him into a nice loving partner... ha-hem... Women are perceived very differently. But I don't live my life according to anyone's rules. Link to post Share on other sites
Herzen Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 As do you Herzen, since you are/were an OM. Lizzie argues your points for you. Come out of the closet and present your own experiences so we can all share in your wisdom. I don't "bait", I challenge. Also, after reading this Thread's many vitriolic posts from LoveShack's "holier-than-thou's--LS is the last place where I'd "come out of the closet." I do have a job for you and the other moral scolds,Trialbyfire ( by the way, an accurate moniker): why don't you help me, and all the immorals, select proper kindling for the stakes where you and your moralist mob can burn us. Cyber-Inquisitions are all the rage, I hear. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I don't "bait", I challenge. Also, after reading this Thread's many vitriolic posts from LoveShack's "holier-than-thou's--LS is the last place where I'd "come out of the closet." I do have a job for you and the other moral scolds,Trialbyfire ( by the way, an accurate moniker): why don't you help me, and all the immorals, select proper kindling for the stakes where you and your moralist mob can burn us. Cyber-Inquisitions are all the rage, I hear. There are some 'Holier than Thou' here too...LOL Now that I have a feel of this place... there are many things I will just keep for myself... I would be burned alive for sure! LOL Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 There are some 'Holier than Thou' here too...LOL Now that I have a feel of this place... there are many things I will just keep for myself... I would be burned alive for sure! LOL but if you have conviction in what you believe in...why not? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 but if you have conviction in what you believe in...why not? I don't want to put fuel on the fire... it has nothing to do with convictions. Link to post Share on other sites
ThumbingMyWay Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I don't want to put fuel on the fire... it has nothing to do with convictions. fair enough...there has been many times I would type a respone....just to delete it and say to myself why bother... Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I'm sure that you would think that as you've never been an OW and have no idea what it's like... OW don't want to replace anyone...they want to take their own place beside the man that they love, as his only partner... An A really has nothing to do with the W...just like the OW really has nothing to do with the M... Actually, the A has nothing to do with the W or the OW and everything to do with the MM. Lizzie talks about us living in a "disposable" society, the truth is the OW is the most disposable one of all. It's rare, as we all know, for the MM to "dispose" of his wife. In most cases the OW is used as a fix for something that is missing within the MM. All this talk about him not getting what he needs at home is a bunch of bull. Lot's of these guys are just looking for something to mask whatever the real problems are. They can escape in a fantasy world with someone who has no ties to reality. Unless they fix the true problems in themselves AND in their marriage, they will continue the cycle. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I don't "bait", I challenge. Also, after reading this Thread's many vitriolic posts from LoveShack's "holier-than-thou's--LS is the last place where I'd "come out of the closet." I do have a job for you and the other moral scolds,Trialbyfire ( by the way, an accurate moniker): why don't you help me, and all the immorals, select proper kindling for the stakes where you and your moralist mob can burn us. Cyber-Inquisitions are all the rage, I hear. I see no challenge. What I do see is the morally and emotionally inept, so wrapped up in self-pleasuring, that nothing is too low to experience. It's not that you don't care about others, it's that you don't even realize they exist. Burning at the stake. That life could provide an easy way out... Better for all involved if the lowly were isolated in a cell, given a few pornography clips and allowed to self-pleasure for the balance of their lives. A win/win. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 But it dosent work,marriages don't work! I think that is the problem.The sense of ownership kills the marriage. I might be going thru some crises here but I have very little faith in relationship and even less in marriages. I am yet to see a happy marriage in my life! Or maybe I just being hanging with the wrong crowd. Maybe you have been hanging with the wrong crowd then. I'm sorry but I've been married for almost 12 years (next month). The sense of "ownership" (borne out of love) that we have for each other hasn't killed our marriage so far. Just the opposite in fact...it's kept us together. It's kept us from cheating and it's kept us from walking out the door during the rough times. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I see no challenge. What I do see is the morally and emotionally inept, so wrapped up in self-pleasuring, that nothing is too low to experience. It's not that you don't care about others, it's that you don't even realize they exist. Burning at the stake. That life could provide an easy way out... Better for all involved if the lowly were isolated in a cell, given a few pornography clips and allowed to self-pleasure for the balance of their lives. A win/win. Hey TBF. If what Lizzie says is true about us living in a disposable society, then there is no problem in disposing the lowly. She said it would be OK didn't she? Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Hey TBF. If what Lizzie says is true about us living in a disposable society, then there is no problem in disposing the lowly. She said it would be OK didn't she? Yes, I believe you're right. A disposal chute to a self-pleasuring cell of choice? - Chute A, clips of MM/MW, - Chute B, clips of Dom/victim. Overall, the lifestyle is one of fantasy. In order for a healthy society to exist, everyone must make a contribution to it, whereby part of their needs are met and the balance of needs are sacrificed or compromised for the good of community. I can't fathom anyone who doesn't wish to contribute in anyway, parasiting off the balance of peoples, to support their self-pleasuring fantasies. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Yes, I believe you're right. A disposal chute to a self-pleasuring cell of choice? - Chute A, clips of MM/MW, - Chute B, clips of Dom/victim. Overall, the lifestyle is one of fantasy. In order for a healthy society to exist, everyone must make a contribution to it, whereby part of their needs are met and the balance of needs are sacrificed or compromised for the good of community. I can't fathom anyone who doesn't wish to contribute in anyway, parasiting off the balance of peoples, to support their self-pleasuring fantasies. If you believe that we were given free, then we also have the ability to make choices. Humans are unique to other living things in that we as a species have the ability to know right from wrong. We are no different from any other animal if we choose to put only our individual needs above all else. What an insult to the creation of the human mind and body to be so selfish. I really don't care that Lizzie lives the life she does. She has made the choice that her desires are all that's important to her. In the end, she is the only one that is reposibile for her actions. And, she seems pretty happy with that. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 If you believe that we were given free, then we also have the ability to make choices. Humans are unique to other living things in that we as a species have the ability to know right from wrong. We are no different from any other animal if we choose to put only our individual needs above all else. What an insult to the creation of the human mind and body to be so selfish. I really don't care that Lizzie lives the life she does. She has made the choice that her desires are all that's important to her. In the end, she is the only one that is reposibile for her actions. And, she seems pretty happy with that. I keep being drawn back to Trimmer's theories. Could it possibly be a situation where the OP and others like her, are people that have never and will never grow up, caught up from the impact of unhealthy childhoods with abusive or lying/cheating parents? It does make sense because of the selfishness. Most toddlers believe they're the center of the universe and are unable to view life in any way, beyond selfish need. Is it emotional retardation during the formative years? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I see no challenge. What I do see is the morally and emotionally inept, so wrapped up in self-pleasuring, that nothing is too low to experience. It's not that you don't care about others, it's that you don't even realize they exist. Burning at the stake. That life could provide an easy way out... Better for all involved if the lowly were isolated in a cell, given a few pornography clips and allowed to self-pleasure for the balance of their lives. A win/win. You should stay away from this forum.... Wow I just can't get over the bitterness of some people here... It is a very sad and pathetic! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 You should stay away from this forum.... Wow I just can't get over the bitterness of some people here... It is a very sad and pathetic! FYI, your response is misdirected. TBF did not bring up "burning at the stake" she was responding to another poster. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 You should stay away from this forum.... Wow I just can't get over the bitterness of some people here... It is a very sad and pathetic! When you call people sad and pathetic, you are contributing to the bitterness. Or is it only OK when you do it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Lizzie60 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 When you call people sad and pathetic, you are contributing to the bitterness. Or is it only OK when you do it? I don't have any problems with self control... I am not into anger management counselling.. she is... so it might be a good idea to stay away from what cause the bitterness and anger... no? Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I don't have any problems with self control... I am not into anger management counselling.. she is... so it might be a good idea to stay away from what cause the bitterness and anger... no? Practice what you preach Lizzie. Everyone should be able to what ever they want. If TBF wants to post here, who are you to question it? Link to post Share on other sites
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