Native American Spirituality or insanity?

[boshemia]

Okay, this is going to seem a strange thread, but I stumbled across something and I wanted a few opinions. I need your ideas on this situation because it has peaked my interest. I really need open minds regarding this, this kid really did believe these things happened to him. If you feel it was mental illness, please explain...

 

There is a native American boy who has had a troubled life, both parents have died, and the child is a bit lost. He has trouble fitting in at school, he has friends but they are most certainly the outcasts.

 

He begins having troubling dreams. They are very realistic, vivid in sounds and color. One of them involves a very evil, very creepy dog like animal coming towards him. He hears a voice saying "shoot" and everything turns black. His body was jerking and shaking, and he could hear loud and distinct gun fire, mostly machine guns.

 

Soon the dreams evolve, and he begins seeing himself as a German soldier in these dreams. Though he isn't a violent person, he begins to believe these recurring dreams are so real that he is actually there. He begins to think he was formerly a Nazi soldier, a thought that terrifies him... but seems to be the only explanation.

 

One night after troubled dreams he opens his eyes and sees something standing in his room that was about three foot tall, it was more than dark, more like darkness itself. He reaches out to touch it, and realizes that he is somehow seeing himself. He feels an energy in the room, like a low wave electricity shooting through him. Afterwards he felt physically and emotionally drained, as if his body was filled with lead. He passed out.

 

He went to an elder and asked him about this vision, and what it could mean. The Elder told him that it was a gift from the creator, and was sent to help him in some way. These dreams trouble him so much that he attempts to commit suicide.. He has a vision at the time, and it tells him that this is not the path he was meant to take. His life is spared.

 

Later he again woke from a sound sleep, the northern lights were in the sky. He had that feeling again like the air was being infused with electricity, the air felt thicker. He felt something pulling at him, like it was trying to take him away. Again he passed out...

 

The boy went on to try to commit suicide again, and was saved again. This time he was placed in the hospital. He was released on anti-depressants. On the way home from the hospital he saw a white owl perched on a fence watching him.

 

Being a Native American he felt this was verysignificant. Again he went to someone in the tribe and was told that indeed it was a sign. Either a portent of death or since it was white, a possible guardian sent to protect him from something bad that was going to happen.

 

A month later he was doing much better. He had hope for his life and his future. The anti-depressants seemed to be working. However a month later he started saying he felt like he was dead, endless nothingness. Within two months this kid died a horrific death at his own hands.

 

As I read this story I really felt like there were two forces fighting over this kid. In the beginning he is sweet, considerate, and contemplative. He was intelligent and able to articulate himself very well... then towards the end there was nothing of the previous person. His spelling and grammar were gone, his language was foul, and he was so lost.

 

What do you think? Was this the process of insanity? Mental illness? or Do you think there may have been something to his visions?

 

I am really interested in unbiased opinions on what happened to this kid. Speculation is cool, even alien abduction is fine... I just feel so terrible for this kid, and the battle he fought against these demons in his life, real or psychological. I'm looking for answers where there may be none.

 

And PS, If you are familiar with the story... please don't post the info here PM me.

[amerikajin]

Okay, this is going to seem a strange thread, but I stumbled across something and I wanted a few opinions. I need your ideas on this situation because it has peaked my interest. I really need open minds regarding this, this kid really did believe these things happened to him. If you feel it was mental illness, please explain...

 

 

 

As I read this story I really felt like there were two forces fighting over this kid. In the beginning he is sweet, considerate, and contemplative. He was intelligent and able to articulate himself very well... then towards the end there was nothing of the previous person. His spelling and grammar were gone, his language was foul, and he was so lost.

 

What do you think? Was this the process of insanity? Mental illness? or Do you think there may have been something to his visions?

 

I am really interested in unbiased opinions on what happened to this kid. Speculation is cool, even alien abduction is fine... I just feel so terrible for this kid, and the battle he fought against these demons in his life, real or psychological. I'm looking for answers where there may be none.

 

And PS, If you are familiar with the story... please don't post the info here PM me.

 

It sort of reads like an account of someone who's been using psychotropics (i.e. jimson weed, peyote etc) but that would be a bit disturbing if it were a kid who's been exposed to this. I don't think Natives start using the psychotropics until adulthood, though maybe they start in their teens.

[Topper]

It sort of reads like an account of someone who's been using psychotropics (i.e. jimson weed, peyote etc) but that would be a bit disturbing if it were a kid who's been exposed to this. I don't think Natives start using the psychotropics until adulthood, though maybe they start in their teens.

 

I don't know much about the Peyote cults. Like amerikjin said I have no idea when they are allowed to take the sacrament. It would help to know what tribe the boy belongs to. The Hopi have some rather deep held spiritual convictions. Many other tribes look up to the Hopi for keeping their religion in tact while others caved into the pressure from Christian and Mormon missionaries. sweat lodges also can produce a vision.

[boshemia]

I believe the boy in this case was Chippewa, but the guy I know who has similar problems is Navajo. I grew up with Navajo and Ute influences, and it has always amazed me how deeply spiritual the "old ones" are. I've always found it odd, that when a white person told me a story, it was clearly fiction... but when the Navajo told me the same story it chilled me to the bones.

 

I've always wondered if it was just their level of belief that made it so believable or something else. When I was a kid, they didn't tell ghost stories, they told skinwalker stories. To this day driving through the reservation at night give me the creeps. The older Navajo wont even talk about Skinwalkers.

[boshemia]

I just thought I'd add a bit of motivation for this thread... I write fiction, and I was exploring adding a possible subplot into my current project, and this boys story intrigued me. Being fiction leaves any number of possibilites as to why this is happening to this boy, and why he chooses the path he does.

 

Since I grew up with the Navajo I have always found Native American Spirituality to be fascinating.

 

So there you have the why of this thread...

[quankanne]

i'm not well-versed in Native American Spirituality, but from what I've read, it's very closely grounded in nature and supernature ... that there are signs in the common, everyday creatures they see. I don't necessarily think it's a problem of mental deterioration as much as divining information, much in the way a writer uses analogy, metaphor and simile to make his point clearer.

 

my guess is that everytime the boy hit a major crisis level in which he was close to suicide, he "saw" something that reminded him of the sanctity of his life

[Topper]

When you see a Navajo or Hopi, or even an Apache dancer wearing a head dress of some Animal such asa Deer or Bear the Dancer is becoming that Animal.

The Hopi believe that we came to this earth from a cave or a hole in the Grand canyon. An Eagle lead people from that inner world into this the 4th world. The number 4 isa sacred number

It is for the four winds the four seasons and the four directions.

Many people don't know this but the Utes were the first native American Tribe to use the Horse.

there is also a lot of folklore in this area about the Utes and Lost gold mines. It is well known that the Utes were enslaved by the Spanish to work mines. They revolted one night killing hundreds of their Spanish Masters. They drove the Spanish back to Santa Fe. For years the Spanish and Mexicans would not venture very far north for fear of the Utes. The utes sealed the mines. They see them as evil places and don't want white men to find them. They are protected. Many a prospector has never been heard from again when they go into the Uinta Mountains.

Just about every area of the west has some tails of lost Gold. I love these leagands and stories.

in the area I live there are a lot of Northern Utes, Shoshone and Blackfoot.

[boshemia]

Oh, my Uncle (also a writer) was telling me about a story he was "given" recently. A friend of his knew he was a writer, and told him he wanted to talk to him about something. This guy was out walking in the desert (somewhere between Farmington and Santa Fe, he wouldn't specify where) looking for artifacts, and he stumbled in a hole. He dug a little bit and realized he had found some kind of mine shaft.

 

So he went to this friend of my Uncle's and asked him to go in with him as a partner. My Uncles friend has a lot of money and equipment at his disposal, and he needed his expertise. He took him to the spot and some guy chased them off. So they waited and went back at night... they got into the shaft and found some very promising signs, they really believed this was a lost hiding place for Spanish treasure.

 

They found a small amount of "treasure" but believed it was behind a wall in the mine. They decided to get some more equipment and go back... but when they were coming out of the mine someone started shooting at them. No kidding, they got back to the truck and got out of there. The next day they were served with a restraining order...

 

I'm not sure of all the details, my Uncle is writing a book about it now, but it sounds so interesting. Almost an Indiana Jones... only.. my Uncles friend is an old, rich, white guy and not all that interesting as a story character... We keep watching the news to find out if someone finally spills it... but so far nothing.

 

Just an old white mans tale I guess : )

[boshemia]

I did a bit of research in the dream, and many different tribes believe an owl is a bad omen. None so far have mentioned a white owl. The dream of the dog is an omen as well.

 

As far as the strange creature standing in his room, the scientific explanation appears to be "sleep paralysis" where you are stuck somewhere between awake and dreaming, your body is awake, your eyes are open, but your mind is still dreaming. The Paranormal believers say that still doesn't explain the creature... they call it either a "hag attack" or in some circles it is believed to be... you guessed it "alien abduction"

 

The anti-depressants are an interesting addition,

 

"The Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) records that, during controlled clinical trials of Luvox, manic reactions developed in 4 percent of children. Mania is defined as "a form of psychosis characterized by exalted feelings, delusions of grandeur ... and over-production of ideas."

 

"The PDR lists adverse reactions of Luvox to the nervous system as:

FREQUENT: amnesia, apathy, hyperkinesis, hypokinesis, manic reaction, myoclonus, psychotic reaction;

 

"INFREQUENT: agoraphobia, akathisia, CNS depression, convulsion, delirium, delusion, depersonalization, drug dependence, emotional liability, euphoria, hallucinations, hostility, hysteria, incoordination, increased salivation, increased libido, paralysis, paranoid reaction, phobia, psychosis, sleep disorder, stupor, twitching, vertigo."

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_35_18/ai_92352722

 

They have found that many of the recent cases of mass murder by both adults and teens have had anti-depressants involved, and the events seem to occur after a change in dosage.

 

While I find these studies interesting, I have to wonder which came first the chicken or the egg... Is it because troubled kids are being prescribed these drugs... or is it because these drugs are actually making some troubled kids worse.

 

So I really do think this kid had some "warnings", his sub-conscious or his spiritual side, who knows... maybe both. It's no secret I've got a heart for kids, and this kids story reminds me of so many kids I have worked with... I have always been concerned about them, but now... I am more so...

 

Has anyone here made the connection as to who this kid was?

 

His name was Jeff Weise, he killed 9 people at Red Lake High School before taking his own life. When I read his Internet posts prior to posting this, I had the eeriest feeling, and couldn't decide if he was lying about all of the fore-shadowing of coming events, if he was actually imagining them, or if maybe... his Elder was correct... A guardian spirit was trying to protect him... from himself. Nobody listened, and he stopped listening to himself...

 

No answers... only more questions...

[Just Visiting]

Hi there, I am from the Ojibway tribe here in Canada. I believe in the States we are referred to as Chippawa. I found this story quite interesting. Yes, our spiritual beliefs are tied to nature and everything that encompasses it. Animals, trees, weather, etc. Everything has a spirit.

 

From what I have read, it appears that this boy had a significant gift. The spirits were trying to tell him in whatever way they can. I have been told that when the spirits want you to know something, or to pay attention, it will be done in a way that can scare the daylights out of you. I experienced dreams like that.

 

My older sister has had many significant, scary, troubling dreams. She even contemplated suicide because she thought she was going crazy. However, she went to a respected elder for guidance. He told her that she has a great gift of seeing into the future and healing others. But because she liked to socialize and not pay attention to her spiritual side, the spirits had to shake her up. Once she started to perform the duties that were meant for her, her dreams are still powerful, but in a good sense.

[EnigmaXOXO]

What do you think? Was this the process of insanity? Mental illness? or Do you think there may have been something to his visions?

 

For every spiritual explanation, there is also a scientific one. The answer lies within the individual and what he/she chooses to believe.

 

We all get ill. Whether physically, mentally or emotionally. What happened to this boy was no different than what is happening to a lot of other young adults who suffer a tragic psychological break from reality and choose to go on a shooting spree at their local highschool before committing suicide. My “guess” is that he was suffering from severe depression, whether brought about by adolescence hormonal changes or some other traumatic event in his life. And perhaps the medication they initially prescribed him was not well suited for his condition. Some anti-depressants can actually cause suicidal thoughts. Add to that the fact that the educational and health care systems provided to our low income communities are not exactly up to par with standards set elsewhere.

 

The unemployment, alcoholism, violence and suicidal rates we see within these very close-nit communities are no different than what we see happening on the city streets and in our suburbs. Indigenous communities represent a small microcosm of what’s going on all over America and the rest of the world. None of us are immune.

 

Was there something to his visions? ... Perhaps. And whether his dreams or troubled thoughts were diagnosed by an elder or by a trained psychologist, the intentions are the same. Both understand how powerful (and fragile) the human psyche is. The benefit of mind over matter. And if by suggestion, you can convince a person to honestly believe they have the power within themselves to turn those thoughts into something positive and beneficial, they often can and will. And the best way to do this is via that person’s own belief system ... be it spiritual, religious and/or clinical. Indigenous healers are the original psychologists. They’re no different than the doctor behind the desk with a notepad, or the Catholic priest who performs a “ceremony” when he conducts an exorcism. But healers, doctors, religious leaders are also human. They can make mistakes --- And worse still, get so caught up in the affect they have over people, so consumed by their own charisma, that they themselves can become sick and misuse their “gift” in misguided and often dangerous ways. So if you ever get the notion to participate in any of the above mentioned ceremonies, be very careful of who you’re doing it with. And most of all be wary of what you’ll often hear referred to as: “plastic medicine men.”

 

By the way ... If you haven’t seen the movie “The Exorcism of Emily Rose” I highly recommend it. Scared the pee-pee out of me even without all the pea soup and head spinning! Supposedly based on a true story, and I’m still left wondering ... was she schizophrenic or was she truly possessed. (???)

[riobikini]

Boshemia, I read the account you posted.

 

I think he was mentally ill.

 

The most significant thing in your post that leads me to suspect mental illness is not only the detailed account of his behavior but the fact that he was *tested* by health professionals in a hospital and the findings (obviously) resulted in the (diagnosed?) need for a specific medication: antidepressants.

 

They're given because the presence of a hormonal imbalance shows up in your test results -supported by the behavioral symptoms, of course (or vice versa.)

 

-Rio