At a crossroad.........

[Moose]

It's been over 5 years since I put a stop to my drunken lifestyle. I've cleaned up my act, got my welding shop back in order, and went to work for brother's software company.

 

Since then, we've opened 5 other offices, built a new home, new vehicles, retirement is looking VERY cushy, completely debt free.......life is great....right?

 

Wrong.

 

My older sister just got another DUI. She had called Mrs. Moose to ask if she would bail her out, let her live with us for a while, and go to court on her behalf.

 

I refused to do it. First off.....Mom was already on her way to bail her out, Mom is the one who gave her the car I bought for her 2 years ago, and Mom is the one that's been enabling her to run around without a job, without paying rent, drinking and driving from state to state.

 

I figure if Mom is going to enable her, Mom needs to clean the mess up.......

 

Well....Mom was talking to Mrs. Moose about it later on and she told Mom what I had said.

 

Mom said I didn't have a leg to stand on, that I wasn't in any better shape than my sister. That I shouldn't be saying my sister needs help. And here's the kicker, Mrs. Moose agreed with her!!

 

I'm like lost on that one! I've completely changed my life! I'm a totally different person than I was 5 years ago!

 

I'm not perfect mind you. I still enjoy my beer after work, but only when I'm HOME for good that evening. And when I say, "my beer".....it's never more than a 6 pack compared to the case a day I used to drink along with a pint of Hot Damn.

 

I should probably spend less time working on projects around the house and spend more time with my kids, and with Mrs. Moose......but all they want to do is lay around, watch TV or play on the computer or video games.......sittin' round eatin' chips sippin' soda....sorry....just not my style anymore!

 

I used to be able to do things like that, but now if I'm awake, I'm doing something productive with my time.....I feel like I have a lot of ground to make up in that department.

 

I just feel like nobody's changed but me. Nobody cares that I've changed either, or at least, they look at me as the same ole' drunken loser who's out all hours of the night doing who knows what!

 

I've lost the respect of my family, and most of my friends.....(mind you, the friends I DID have were my drinking buddies, so no loss there).

 

But what about my wife? My kids? My own Mother? What's it going to take to get results from them to see I've changed completely? Should I even care? I'm pretty upset that Mrs. Moose agreed with Mom about this.....she's flat out told me how much I've changed, then stabs me in the back when I'm not there......

 

I'm pretty hurt by this.....

[quankanne]

I just feel like nobody's changed but me. Nobody cares that I've changed either, or at least, they look at me as the same ... What's it going to take to get results from them to see I've changed completely? Should I even care?

 

ugh ... hate to say it, but people have a very hard time accepting change in someone they've labled as "blank." In your mom's case, prolly because you took that step to change makes her feel uncomfortable because you're no longer living a lifestyle she can understand. And I'm guessing that when your wife agreed, she may have agreed for different reasons (who are you to belly ache when you were that person five years ago? kind of thing) ... before let that anger or hurt eat you up, ask Wife what she meant by her comment. You might be in for a big surprise at how she views things ... that maybe she doesn't quite trust in the change even as she enjoys the new you.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I remember when my husband quit drinking about 15 years ago. ALL OF A SUDDEN, he had no patience with those who did drink. This got off with me because I HAD PUT UP WITH THE DRUNKEN ABUSE for several years. And all of a sudden HE is better than his brothers and sisters who are all also alcoholics. That said, noone was happier or respected him for his success than I did. It was an answered prayer.

 

Ofcourse its not helpful for you sister to be enabled and I would have no part of it. That is your choice, but it is difficult for the people who loved you and enabled you when you take this stance because the suffered or put up with your "stuff" regardless when you were off track. Does this make any sense?

[Art_Critic]

What's it going to take to get results from them to see I've changed completely?

 

Time... that is all...

 

If you had given up the drink for good and for all they certainly might have a different outlook on you..

 

Right now they are most likely thinking you are just 2 hours from being back like the old moose..

 

Moose..you did some serious damage to them with your drinking and Alcoholic behavior..

this damage takes years to heal.. and it takes the reassurance that you are not going to repeat the past..

 

Stop all drinking and let some time go by.. once they believe that you really have changed you will hear all about it.. but right now 10-1 says they are right now just waiting for the other shoe to drop so to speak on your sobriety..

[Moose]

I remember when my husband quit drinking about 15 years ago. ALL OF A SUDDEN, he had no patience with those who did drink. This got off with me because I HAD PUT UP WITH THE DRUNKEN ABUSE for several years. And all of a sudden HE is better than his brothers and sisters who are all also alcoholics.

I don't consider myself better than anyone is my point. I just won't be an enabler anymore. I know how damaging it was for me, and I won't be a part of that anymore. If she wants to drink, then that's fine I wouldn't say a word about it until I'm expected to support her. That's what I think hurts my Mom and causes her to say I don't have a leg to stand on.

 

What gets to me is that these changes are SO apparent!

And I'm guessing that when your wife agreed, she may have agreed for different reasons (who are you to belly ache when you were that person five years ago? kind of thing) ... before let that anger or hurt eat you up, ask Wife what she meant by her comment. You might be in for a big surprise at how she views things ... that maybe she doesn't quite trust in the change even as she enjoys the new you.

I will ask her quank, thanks! I think alot of what bothers me about Mrs. Moose is that sure, she likes the, "new" me, (at least she says she does), but she hasn't changed one iota since I've stopped that lifestyle. No sex, no intimacy, just the daily routine.....everyday......

 

I'm not saying that I should expect her to change, but one of the most compelling reasons why I did is to win her love and trust again so that mayber we could enjoy our intimacy again.

 

Nothing.....nada.....not in 5 years......

 

I'm definitely not going to partake in my old lifestyle again, but now I'm stuck here at the crossroads of nothingness......like nothing has changed except I'm a lot easier to handle for the wife, and I'm no longer keeping my parents up at night.....OH....and the bills are ALL paid.....

[alphamale]

I think that if you're in the position to help your sister out you should. You should tell her this is her last chance and if she don't get her act together then you won't help her out again.

 

What if 25 yrs down the road one of your kids got into trouble and went to one of his/her siblings for help? How would you feel if one of your kids didn't assist a sister or brother? Assuming they had the means.

 

Family is always #1 brother.

[Moose]

I think that if you're in the position to help your sister out you should.

I believe that's exactly what I'm doing by NOT helping her out in her lifestyle.

You should tell her this is her last chance and if she don't get her act together then you won't help her out again

This would be her UPTEENTH last time though....

What if 25 yrs down the road one of your kids got into trouble and went to one of his/her siblings for help? How would you feel if one of your kids didn't assist a sister or brother? Assuming they had the means.

I understand what you're saying.....I would be a little disappointed....sure....but it depends on the circumstances I suppose....

[Green]

u have to do something to help your sister out, enabling her isnt the thing, but figure something out

[whichwayisup]

I am going to run with what alpha has said and take it a step further....

 

As a whole family: You, your mom, your wife, your children, TOGETHER ALL of you do an intervention and give your sister a choice to decide what she wants. Jail, a life of drinking and being alone - Or getting into a place which can help get her clean again.

 

Your mom is enabling her behaviour, not you.

 

As for you and your wife, sooner or later something has to blow up, a fight, a heated discussion, something. You're getting more and more pissed off at her, and your wife still holds resentments inside about you. MARRIAGE counselling has to happen so together you can become closer, otherwise one day you WILL get fed up with it and walk away........

 

The other thing is, you're enabling your wife and kids to laze around, watching TV, letting them do nothing. Encourage them to GET active. Whether it be playing ball hockey, baseball, seeing a movie at a movie theatre, basketball, going for a walk, etc.......By letting them do nothing while you bury yourself in yard work outside, that's not living...It's avoiding the loneliness you feel inside your own home.

[Mustang Sally]

I think alot of what bothers me about Mrs. Moose is that sure, she likes the, "new" me, (at least she says she does), but she hasn't changed one iota since I've stopped that lifestyle. No sex, no intimacy, just the daily routine.....everyday......

 

I'm not saying that I should expect her to change, but one of the most compelling reasons why I did is to win her love and trust again so that mayber we could enjoy our intimacy again.

 

Nothing.....nada.....not in 5 years......

 

I'm definitely not going to partake in my old lifestyle again, but now I'm stuck here at the crossroads of nothingness......like nothing has changed except I'm a lot easier to handle for the wife, and I'm no longer keeping my parents up at night.....OH....and the bills are ALL paid.....

Well, this certainly sheds some light on your situation with Mrs. Moose for me. I didn't know all this history.

 

I think it's great that you have made such positive changes in your life.

But, I think Art is hitting it right on the head. I'd speculate that Mrs. M probably has some "distrust" issues with you that relate to you not giving up the EtOH completely. I know you were posting mostly about your sis's situation (and I agree with the tough love stand) but as far as your M is concerned, I think you need to go ALL THE WAY with the "change" in order to see the return on the investment that you want.

 

Just my opinion.

[amaysngrace]

I also agree with A_C here Moose. The only way for them to think differently of you is to give up the alcohol entirely. Yes it is commendable that you think you've gotten it under control, but it is only commendable insofar as admitting there is a problem. You have just modified the problem. You haven't tackled it completely. You yourself say that the relationship you have with your children is strained. You say it's cause they watch TV and they eat chips or what have you, implying that the problem lies with them.

 

I think it's very unfortunate that by the time you realize that six beers a day is six beers too many, your children will be grown and gone from their home. You want to talk about missed opportunity? All the time you're making up for now to satisfy a longing for all the time you've missed due to choices you've made??

 

How on earth are you ever going to recover the time spent with your children when you were downing six beers and making up for your OWN lost time?

 

See the present now, my friend, and change the future.

 

Don't shift the blame onto them. Your precious children. Their lifestyle choices...instead see what lifestyle choices you can make including the practice of love, devotion and tolerance.

 

I would say that by living with you, someone who has struggled with an alcohol addiction, they are very worthy of all the love, devotion and tolerance you provide them with now. It's their turn Moose. You've taken enough. Time to give back my dear.

 

And as far as your sister goes, please don't be an enabler. Of course your wife is going to agree with your mother. It's the role she took on and is so familiar with having been married to you all this time. It comes naturally to a woman in her circumstances. She married and has lived with an alcoholic. This behavior is second nature to her now thanks to you and the choices you've made. Go easy on her, please. And see where you come into this picture. I think it's time for humility Moose.

[burning 4 revenge]

I also agree with A_C here Moose. The only way for them to think differently of you is to give up the alcohol entirely. Yes it is commendable that you think you've gotten it under control, but it is only commendable insofar as admitting there is a problem. You have just modified the problem. You haven't tackled it completely. You yourself say that the relationship you have with your children is strained. You say it's cause they watch TV and they eat chips or what have you, implying that the problem lies with them.

 

I think it's very unfortunate that by the time you realize that six beers a day is six beers too many, your children will be grown and gone from their home. You want to talk about missed opportunity? All the time you're making up for now to satisfy a longing for all the time you've missed due to choices you've made??

 

How on earth are you ever going to recover the time spent with your children when you were downing six beers and making up for your OWN lost time?

 

See the present now, my friend, and change the future.

 

Don't shift the blame onto them. Your precious children. Their lifestyle choices...instead see what lifestyle choices you can make including the practice of love, devotion and tolerance.

 

I would say that by living with you, someone who has struggled with an alcohol addiction, they are very worthy of all the love, devotion and tolerance you provide them with now. It's their turn Moose. You've taken enough. Time to give back my dear.

 

And as far as your sister goes, please don't be an enabler. Of course your wife is going to agree with your mother. It's the role she took on and is so familiar with having been married to you all this time. It comes naturally to a woman in her circumstances. She married and has lived with an alcoholic. This behavior is second nature to her now thanks to you and the choices you've made. Go easy on her, please. And see where you come into this picture. I think it's time for humility Moose.

What you didnt mention was that you wrote this entire post wasted

[amaysngrace]

What you didnt mention was that you wrote this entire post wasted

 

Dude neither my head nor my heart is wasted okay? Luckily I'm not alcoholic.

[Moose]

Sorry for the delayed response.

 

In the past, without her pushing me, and under my own convictions and well being I have stopped completely. Dozens of times. And you would think, (based on what you've posted), that would make a major difference.

 

Wrong again. There have been stretches of 3-6 months where I wouldn't have a drop, and during those times she becomes more withdrawn, more depressed, and more defensive.

 

It's as if she's not happy unless she has just a weeny bit of dirt on me......can anyone explain that one?

 

Is she afraid that I'll start coming down on her about the habits she has that I'm not happy with?

 

BTW>......so you all know....I'm not a 6 packer a day everyday......that is a really heavy night for me......

[Craig]

It's as if she's not happy unless she has just a weeny bit of dirt on me......can anyone explain that one?

 

Just shootin in the dark here Moose...but if you don't have any "dirt" on you then she can't work on cleaning (rescuing?) you up. Maybe part of her identity is to save/help/fix/rescue/clean up people and she's just not happy unless she has a "project" of sorts?

 

Is she afraid that I'll start coming down on her about the habits she has that I'm not happy with?

I'd guess that she knows you wouldn't do that, is that correct?

[a4a]

A 6 pack is way too much in my view. If you are at a gathering and on the rare occassion you go over the top with having 1-2 more than...... I understand. But sitting and drinking by yourself at home.... why???

 

What I am reading between the lines is : No matter what I do she still does not treat me in a manner in which I would like. Correct?

 

But seeing that you are an alcoholic....... don't you think drinking is a major problem in your M? No matter how your W reacts or treats you it still feeds the problems?

 

One of many issues perhaps.... but still a serious issue?

 

WW has many good points..... if you are hiding (previous mention of the garage being the family avoidance center)...... what are you bringing into the family. You are just a paycheck?..... not a participant in the family?????

[Art_Critic]

so you all know....I'm not a 6 packer a day everyday......that is a really heavy night for me......

 

Moose.. when you said you would have a beer every now an then I thought that is what was really happening..

I agree with A4a that 6 beers a night is wayyyy too much..even if it is just once a week...

You are not there for your family when you are under the influence.

 

I stand by my original post and believe that your family knows you are not sober and you are still drinking alcoholically.

Your family life is hurting right now because of your inability to quit drinking for good and for all..

 

You need to start going to AA meetings bro..

You need to admit was once and for all that you are powerless over alcohol and seek treatment.. either thru the church, a hospital or thru the AA..

 

Starting this thread goes to show that you are looking to improve yourself.. and that you are looking for help... It takes a good deal of courage to ask for help...

[a4a]

Little insight......

 

when I met my H he was drinking beer every night. Not sloppy drunk, just had gotten used to kicking back with his buddies and drinking after work..... and at home. 6- 8 beers......

 

It stopped. Beer is reserved for going out - maybe with dinner out...... on the rare occassion weekend lawn mowing. But it really has not stopped............

 

I see that beer bottle come out - It instantly puts me on alert. It will always have an effect on me and does cause a twinge of anger to rise up. ( I think :oh goodie here we go again)

 

Keep in mind my H has never been "drunk" or obnoxious around me. But being around an X that was abusive and nasty when drinking..... that damn bottle pisses me off still. If you were abusive and nasty to your W and bad thoughts are tied to the bottle....... trust me, those feeling have a way of creeping up on you.

 

Thank you for posting this by the way. It brought something to my attention. That empty 1.75 bottle of Baileys sitting in the recycle pile. It's not beer...... but funny my functioning alcoholic H apprently figured out a way to trick me into believing his drinking slowed down. It has, but subbing the "uppity drinks" for beer..... interesting indeed. Brillant! He fed right into my thought patterns about my dislike of alcoholics that drink beer = my past experience and how I related it to him and his drinking problem..... Fine wine, expensive liquor..... that is enjoyment and an experience, not alcoholism.... interesting. Most excellent manuever on his part.

 

Wow what a fruckin eye opener! He is good at fooling me.

 

Thanks Moose and Art....... really thank you! I did not notice the consumption rate until this very moment.

 

(A4A- the dumbass I am - sharpens her fork)

I feel like a complete ass.

[quankanne]

not going to fuss at you Moose, because you know your marriage better than I, but this strikes a chord: But seeing that you are an alcoholic....... don't you think drinking is a major problem in your M? No matter how your W reacts or treats you it still feeds the problems? … I see that beer bottle come out - It instantly puts me on alert.

 

no matter what you do or how well you behave, your family has seen that side of you when you weren't at your best, and that's what their response is based on, not the changes you've made. And frankly, it's hard to completely trust in that change because of what they've experienced before, so you've got a challenging road ahead when it comes to getting people to alter their perceptions of you. Just keep plugging on, though, and make those changes for YOU ... at some point, others will accept them because they understand (and see) the difference in your behavior/ways.

 

as for the "being a good brother" bit – sometimes tough love is the best thing you can do for someone, even when it seems cruel. At this point, this is what your sister needs, not somebody bailing her •ss out yet again. Don't let emotionalism sway you ("what if it were your kid?") ... hopefully, your kids will understand that they are responsible for their behavior at all times, and that "do overs" don't happen in real life. It's called accountability!

 

(A4A- the dumbass I am - sharpens her fork)

 

not quite a dumbass, dear, just not expecting to be fooled this way. Dumbasses *see* these things, but still put up with them because they believe things get better. Changing gears here, but that could be the whole crux of the problems you've had with your tater not wanting to be responsible – everything's tied up in selfish behavior, as evidenced by the secret drinking. He'll say whatever it is you want to hear, but he's not interested in changing for the better to benefit your relationship because that would interfere with *his* personal needs and desires

[hotgurl]

Moose I agree with art & a4a and the others that since you have had a drinking problem now you relly shouldn't drink at all.

 

Did you ever solve the problems that caused you to drink in the first place?

[Moose]

Just shootin in the dark here Moose...but if you don't have any "dirt" on you then she can't work on cleaning (rescuing?) you up. Maybe part of her identity is to save/help/fix/rescue/clean up people and she's just not happy unless she has a "project" of sorts?

I think you've hit on something here Craig. In fact, it may be a bullseye! She's always clinged to people with problems, and has tried to councel them back to health. What is she going to do with a man that's got it all together........nothing.....

I'd guess that she knows you wouldn't do that, is that correct?

Of course. Not that I haven't done that in the past, but that was when I was, as a4a calls it, a sloppy drunk. But now, I don't hold anything against her, nobody is perfect in my opinion.

A 6 pack is way too much in my view. If you are at a gathering and on the rare occassion you go over the top with having 1-2 more than...... I understand. But sitting and drinking by yourself at home.... why???

I very RARELY drink a 6 pack in a day's time. Why do I drink alone? If I told you, you would AUTOMATICALLY think I'm making excuses, so let's not go there. Just understand that I do have my reasons that only pyscologic drugs would rememdy and I'm definitely NOT going there!

What I am reading between the lines is : No matter what I do she still does not treat me in a manner in which I would like. Correct?

Yeah, and so.....this is the case in the majority of marriages....yes?

But seeing that you are an alcoholic....... don't you think drinking is a major problem in your M?

I'm an alcoholic no matter if I drink or not. One thing I'll NEVER be again is a DRUNK.......does that not make sense to anyone here????

WW has many good points..... if you are hiding (previous mention of the garage being the family avoidance center)......

I don't, "hide" my drinking.....and I don't hide in the FAC......the doors are wide open, and there's plenty of work for the rest of the family to help with......but I'll be totally floored if and when they EVER do.....

You are just a paycheck?..... not a participant in the family?????

Are you kidding me? I'm gone the first 10 hours of the day working 5 days a week, the next 2 hours of the day I spend catching up with Mrs. Moose and how the kid's day(s) went before I head outside to do the daily chores for the next 3-4 hours of daylight that's left. (unless there's a school function to attend), THEN I eat, shower and sleep for 6-7 hours before the cycle repeats itself. On Saturday, we ALL do something together whether it's fishing, playing in the yard, visiting relatives or what have ya, and Sunday is a no brainer.....Church/lunch/nap/Church/supper/Bed.......how else do you suggest I become a participant in the family??????

Moose.. when you said you would have a beer every now an then I thought that is what was really happening..

I agree with A4a that 6 beers a night is wayyyy too much..even if it is just once a week...

You are not there for your family when you are under the influence.

Again, I don't drink EVERY night, and I definitely don't drink a 6 pack a night once a week, or once a month.......not there for my family when I'm under the influence??? What kind of nonsense is that??? When I do have a beer or maybe two, it's not like I'm ***** faced drunk passed out flat on the ground AC........jeeeeezzz.....

I stand by my original post and believe that your family knows you are not sober and you are still drinking alcoholically.

Your family life is hurting right now because of your inability to quit drinking for good and for all..

AC, I'll always be an alcoholic......it's in my genes....and that will ALWAYS remain on her mind. She can't be with me 24/7 and THAT will always be on her mind. She can't read my mind, and THAT will always be on her mind. I'm trying to think when the last time was that I even had a ONE beer for crying out loud......

Just keep plugging on, though, and make those changes for YOU ... at some point, others will accept them because they understand (and see) the difference in your behavior/ways.

Alot of people already have. And they are very proud of the changes I've made. The whole point of me starting this thread is the fact that Mrs. Moose hasn't supported these changes, in fact by taking my mother's side on the issue, she's, (in my opinion), started this WHOLE cycle ALL OVER AGAIN!

[Art_Critic]

not there for my family when I'm under the influence??? What kind of nonsense is that???

 

Moose.. one beer IS under the influence..

 

Your personality changes.. your demeanor changes.. your wife and kids know this..

 

Hey !!.. I'm only pointing out the obvious.. that you are a DRUNK.. An ALCOHOLIC..

 

I'm a DRUNK too.. and I quit drinking 20 years ago...

 

All I have heard in your post is denial.. denial that you are powerless over Alcohol..

 

Care to admit that you are powerless over Alcohol ?.. That is the first step..

You mention that you are an Alcoholic.. then why do you continue to drink ?

 

Remember that those Genes you speak of give you a disease.. a Denial based disease that tells you it is okay to continue to drink.. it tells you it is okay to continue the behavior..

 

The disease will always tell you that it is okay to drink.. You have to be ready to battle that line of stinking thinking with living a one day at a time life as well as a 12th step program..

 

Are you ready to admit that you are powerless over Alcohol ?

[Art_Critic]

Moose ...

 

If you want peace and serenity in your life as well as the life for your family and wife then you need to give up drinking for good.

 

You wonder why your family hasn't recognized your growth.. well..

 

It is because from their point of view you haven't grown enough for them to drop their guard so that they become emotional vulnerable to you again.

 

They don't trust you because they know the reality is that you are still drinking and being that you are still drinking you are literally 30 mins from a drunken binge that puts them back into their shell of living with an Alcoholic..

 

The trust will take time to rebuild.. but in order for the process to start you have to be sober

[Moose]

Moose.. one beer IS under the influence..

 

Your personality changes.. your demeanor changes.. your wife and kids know this..

 

Hey !!.. I'm only pointing out the obvious.. that you are a DRUNK.. An ALCOHOLIC..

 

I'm a DRUNK too.. and I quit drinking 20 years ago...

 

All I have heard in your post is denial.. denial that you are powerless over Alcohol..

 

Care to admit that you are powerless over Alcohol ?.. That is the first step..

You mention that you are an Alcoholic.. then why do you continue to drink ?

 

Remember that those Genes you speak of give you a disease.. a Denial based disease that tells you it is okay to continue to drink.. it tells you it is okay to continue the behavior..

 

The disease will always tell you that it is okay to drink.. You have to be ready to battle that line of stinking thinking with living a one day at a time life as well as a 12th step program..

 

Are you ready to admit that you are powerless over Alcohol ?

lol.....I know I'm powerless over the alcohol Art.....I've never denied that! How do you gather I'm denying that? Just because I say I'm not a drunk? Just because I feel there's a difference, and you don't doesn't mean squat to me.

 

YES, I'm an alcoholic, I've said this MANY times.....that is not denial.

 

And no, I don't continue to drink, that would be a DRUNK.

 

But IF I want to enjoy a beer on a hot summer day, or when I'm working in the yard, or on the farm that is MY choice, and my wife and family needs to accept that without persecution......

 

Mrs. Moose never used to clean the house(s), do the dishes, or cook when we first were married. She's changed all of that. But when she slacks off, and let's things go, I don't rip into her to get off her butt and do something about it......let alone go to counceling or a 12 step program to get help.....and it doesn't lead me to believe she'll revert to the old ways permantly......

[Art_Critic]

Saying and believing are 2 separate things Moose..

 

You say you are an Alcoholic but you don't believe it..

You say you are powerless over Alcohol but you don't believe it..

 

How do I know that ??... simple.. because you still drink..

 

If you believed it you would be humbled by that realization and stop drinking.

 

The year before I quit drinking I had been going to AA meetings because a GF I was living with wanted me to go..

 

I went to every single AA meeting drunk off my ass for that entire year..

 

That entire year I got up in each meeting and said Hi.. I'm Art.. I'm an Alcoholic.. ( but I was trashed )...

 

See... there is a difference between saying it and believing it.. as soon as I took the first step and admitted to myself and others that I was powerless over Alcohol I quit.. I then started going to my meetings sober

20 years later looking back it was the most humbling experience a person could go thru...