At a crossroad.........

[quankanne]

good to hear you two talked it over ... sounds like a lotta things were laid to rest.

 

on a side note, I imagine that if your wife has noticed and accepted the improvements in your behavior because you've laid off drinking, she's prolly gonna be the first to lovingly point out that you're being a jackass when you DO drink.

[sb129]

sb129, Believe it or not, Mrs. Moose and I ARE councelors at our Church for newly marrieds. But, there are other councelors there for, "mature" marriages that I could look into......I'll put that on my list as well....thanks!

 

The shoemakers children are never shod!!!!

You sound like you have been thru alot together you and Mrs Moose. Think about what YOU would say to a couple in your situation.

 

A third party is a great mediator, and may allow you and Mrs Moose to work thru your issues without fighting.

 

I am glad you are considering it. Also glad you got to talk to Mrs Moose today.

[Moose]

I'm afraid I'm a bit mystified, Moose, that drinking a six-pack is OK by you.

< shakes his head in disgust > I NEVER said it was OK.....

 

Sometimes I'll have one, sometimes two.....but when I'm working my tail off in the middle of summer, or on a float / camping trip, I might, MIGHT hit number 6......that's VERY rare.

 

You make it sound like it's a daily event......

 

And oh, Art, I appreciate your comments, but you do strike a nerve in me when you call me a drunk.

 

I've told you before, in my mind there is a difference between an alcoholic, and a drunk, and I meant it. It may be my opinion, but you need to respect that.

[Art_Critic]

And oh, Art, I appreciate your comments, but you do strike a nerve in me when you call me a drunk.

 

I've told you before, in my mind there is a difference between an alcoholic, and a drunk, and I meant it. It may be my opinion, but you need to respect that.

 

You know what Moose.. I call myself a drunk and I haven't had a drink in 20 years..

I'll tell you what...I respect you.. I respect the fact that you have the courage to post on this thread..

but to stifle me with your statement shows me that I'm more right than wrong on this issue..

 

The hardest thing to get thru to someone is seeing denial..

 

I'm not going to get it thru to you so I'm going to just watch from the sidelines..

 

When this issue re-emerges in the future as I believe it will maybe you could reread this thread and you might see things slightly differently..

Until then..

 

[polywog]

< shakes his head in disgust > I NEVER said it was OK.....

 

Sometimes I'll have one, sometimes two.....but when I'm working my tail off in the middle of summer, or on a float / camping trip, I might, MIGHT hit number 6......that's VERY rare.

 

You make it sound like it's a daily event......

 

And oh, Art, I appreciate your comments, but you do strike a nerve in me when you call me a drunk.

 

I've told you before, in my mind there is a difference between an alcoholic, and a drunk, and I meant it. It may be my opinion, but you need to respect that.

 

Sorry, Moose... I misread your post.

[Moose]

You know what Moose.. I call myself a drunk and I haven't had a drink in 20 years..

Then you're an alcoholic like myself.

 

A drunk, IMO, is one who's actively consuming alcohol with no feelings of remorse of what he's/she's doing to himself or others.

 

That's not the case in my or your situation........so don't put yourself down like that......

The hardest thing to get thru to someone is seeing denial..

AGAIN.....where do you get off saying I'm in denial????

 

Maybe you should watch from the sidelines, because all you're doing is ticking me off......not intentionally I'm sure......so sorry if I offended you....

Sorry, Moose... I misread your post.

Not a problem.....sorry that I gave you the angry face.....lol

[a4a]

Well Moose sounds like that is resolved with your wife.

 

Now what are you going to do with the relationship with your sister?

 

Now what are you going to do with the lack of intimacy in your M?

 

It just keeps going back to this.....

[blind_otter]

Thanks BO. But as you know, once a person is to the point my sister is at, the only thing you can do is allow her to hit rock bottom, and don't bail her out. You, (of all people here), should know that's the ONLY way I CAN help her right now.

 

Have you ever had an intervention for your sister? I mean, confronted her about how her lifestyle has affected everyone who loves and supports her? Just a question, I'm curious.

 

So no, there isn't any truth in it, BUT, my mother can't see that.

 

Sometimes our parents can't see us for who we are right now; they see through a filter from years ago.

 

 

The drugs I used to take wouldn't allow me to function with a level head. You literally have to take them whether or not your having memories of your abuse, so I won't do it.

 

As someone who is struggling with prescription antidepressants, I feel you on that one. Sometimes I think it's not worth it to have to struggle with the meds. But I suppose it's better than getting obliterated and going on a coke binge, eh?

 

Anyway I'm so glad that you got this out in the open and talked it out with your W. Now if only you guys could work on the intimacy issue...

[whichwayisup]

I still think some marriage counselling, away from the Church would really help you and your wife.

[Moose]

Now what are you going to do with the relationship with your sister?

Honestly, I don't know. She lives with mom, and I hardly talk to her. I figure she'll have to go to court soon, and I'm praying the Judge will force her to rehab this time. That's about all I can do......

Now what are you going to do with the lack of intimacy in your M?

Thanks to this thread and some research I've done yesterday, (all DAY), I believe my wife is a co-dependant.

 

I've noticed she's taking interest in other people's problems at the present, and has been ignoring me. I'm going to see if she'll go to ALANON. She has done this in the past, and she's told me that she actually liked it. I don't know why she stopped going though.

 

I'm not getting my hopes up, and I'm not sure anything will ever change in this department.

 

Who knows a4a....all I know is that I don't want to be miserable the rest of my life.......

[Art_Critic]

I believe my wife is a co-dependant.

 

I've noticed she's taking interest in other people's problems at the present, and has been ignoring me. I'm going to see if she'll go to ALANON.

 

Well no shiot that your wife is codependent.. She is married to an Alcoholic..

 

If you ask your your wife to go to Alanon without you going to AA then you are doing nothing but blame shifting the issue to the codependent and removing blame and responsibility that belongs to the Alcoholic.

 

I do believe your wife needs to go to Alanon .. It would help her gain her life back and in turn help you gain yours back..

[whichwayisup]

But Moose, her going to ALANON again isn't just going to fix your marriage. It's a start though.

 

She could very well ask you to go to AA. If she asks that of you, are you willing to go?

 

Also, you both need to get some counselling together. Rebuild your 'friendship' and capture what it was that brought you two together years ago.

 

You both do things apart to avoid eachother. You, outside doing chores, and her helping others and doing stuff in the house. Somehow, the two of you have reach out to eachother and bond again.

[a4a]

I would not help your sister a lick either. Until she starts to show that she is turning a new leaf.

 

As for a lack of sex and your wife changing.

 

1. she has to really acknowledge that this is a problem

2. she can look to the causes of the problem (but we know what makes a skeeter bite itch don't we, so do we spend all of our time with the study of the life of a skeeter..... no, we either scratch the bite or put something on it to make the damn bit quit itching)

3. she just works on making the bite quit itching.

 

You need to lay this out on the table asap....... and if she is making progress accept it. Don't look at it as "mercy sex"....... take it.

 

You will not leave her, you will not have an affair, you will not even pleasure yourself....... so your options are quite limited for sexual pleasure.

 

I highly suggest you give it to her straight.

 

"If you want us to be in a happy marriage, you want the best from me, then you need to start having some sexual interest"

 

Her choice, Her control, all in Her Power.

 

It is part of a R or M. You supply her with everything she wants or needs..... yet she feels like she can short change you...... nope..... not fair, not loving, not kind.

 

Fire the maid....... no more vacations....... no more anything until she acknowledges that she is indeed mistreating and neglecting you.

 

Hell Moose if you do actually treat your wife as well as you say you do..... marry me instead. :lmao:

 

I don't want to do a lot of things, I don't...... but I do. Part of the give and take no matter what- even friendships.

[Art_Critic]

I would not help your sister a lick either. Until she starts to show that she is turning a new leaf.

 

As for a lack of sex and your wife changing.

 

1. she has to really acknowledge that this is a problem

2. she can look to the causes of the problem (but we know what makes a skeeter bite itch don't we, so do we spend all of our time with the study of the life of a skeeter..... no, we either scratch the bite or put something on it to make the damn bit quit itching)

3. she just works on making the bite quit itching.

 

You need to lay this out on the table asap....... and if she is making progress accept it. Don't look at it as "mercy sex"....... take it.

 

You will not leave her, you will not have an affair, you will not even pleasure yourself....... so your options are quite limited for sexual pleasure.

 

I highly suggest you give it to her straight.

 

"If you want us to be in a happy marriage, you want the best from me, then you need to start having some sexual interest"

 

Her choice, Her control, all in Her Power.

 

It is part of a R or M. You supply her with everything she wants or needs..... yet she feels like she can short change you...... nope..... not fair, not loving, not kind.

 

Fire the maid....... no more vacations....... no more anything until she acknowledges that she is indeed mistreating and neglecting you.

 

Hell Moose if you do actually treat your wife as well as you say you do..... marry me instead. :lmao:

 

I don't want to do a lot of things, I don't...... but I do. Part of the give and take no matter what- even friendships.

 

 

Good Post A4a....

[amaysngrace]

I figure she'll have to go to court soon, and I'm praying the Judge will force her to rehab this time.

 

I don't know if this is going to work though Moose. I think she'd have better results with rehab if it's her idea. She needs to want it for herself, like you had wanted to be a drinker, not a drunk.

 

I think so many people on this thread have offered you wisdom and good insight. I admire you for reaching out and being so upfront and honest.

 

As for your sister, she needs to want to get help.

 

As for your mother, by pointing you out as the "pot" as you say, she is just deflecting the issue at hand. She's really not helping anyone here. Her comments aren't necessary. Consider the source.

 

As for your wife, if she is co-dependent she has issues of her own. Which is why she is insistent on beating you down rather than building you up. I understand her place in a way, because when you crack a beer she doesn't know if it will stop at one. But, when she stays with you she is making a choice of her own. You guys are still married.

 

I think that everyone can benefit from counseling here. From your mother to your children. And those in between.

 

Alcohol has the power in all of your lives AFAICS.

[Moose]

Well no shiot that your wife is codependent.. She is married to an Alcoholic..

Ok Art......you make me feel like choking the very next dang CLOWN I see......

 

She's ALWAYS been a "co-dependent" even before I came into her life.....she's always needed a, "project".....GET IT????!!!!

 

When I asked her if she wanted to go back to Alanon, I offered to go to AA which meets the very same time.......give me a little credit.....I'd NEVER place total blame on my wife!

Hell Moose if you do actually treat your wife as well as you say you do..... marry me instead.

Tell you what a4a, we'd make one helluva team! (personally, financially).....thanks for that awesome post!

But, when she stays with you she is making a choice of her own. You guys are still married.

Good point. I just feel that now that her, "project" of a husband isn't needing as much attention as she's used to, I'm afraid she'll find another, "project" to fix, and I'll be old news......just don't know.....

[whichwayisup]

I just feel that now that her, "project" of a husband isn't needing as much attention as she's used to, I'm afraid she'll find another, "project" to fix, and I'll be old news......just don't know.....

 

Moose, tell her this. Open up and talk about all that you're feeling inside. MAKE her understand how what she is doing makes you feel. Give her suggestions on how to make things better.

[amaysngrace]

I just feel that now that her, "project" of a husband isn't needing as much attention as she's used to, I'm afraid she'll find another, "project" to fix, and I'll be old news......just don't know.....

 

I think she has issues Moose. It seems like now that you have a handle on this drinking, she is looking for more fault in YOU to fix. Even if it's minor. I think she needs counseling so she can see where she makes mistakes too if she isn't able to figure it out on her own.

 

She isn't being a good partner to you IMO. There's a sense of pride she should be feeling in you that she seems to be missing. And I think that how she acts is all about her, and not about you. I think she needs a professional to help her find her own way here.

 

And I have to say that while I think it's commendable that you've moderated the drinking, I do think the only way to get things right is to give it up entirely. Is having a beer really worth all this BS in your life?

[Art_Critic]

give me a little credit.....I'd NEVER place total blame on my wife!

 

Moose.. I actually do give you props....I just wanted you to hear me on those few things..

 

Me taking my hardline stance doesn't mean that you are the only bad guy and are a fuqk up.. I took that stance in order to pound some Clown Sense into you..

 

If I hear on the news tonight that Scabs the Clown from your local Fair died a mysterious death I'll be disappointed in you

[Art_Critic]

Is having a beer really worth all this BS in your life?

 

It is for an Alcoholic ..

 

There is an old saying in the AA " one drink is too many and a thousand is not enough "

[Moose]

Moose, tell her this. Open up and talk about all that you're feeling inside. MAKE her understand how what she is doing makes you feel. Give her suggestions on how to make things better.

I don't know how she'd take it WWIU......think of it this way.....your doctor tells you on your last visit that you need surgery. So you go in, have the surgery done, and you're all better. The next day, you go up to your doctor and tell him/her, that they needed to use this instrument next time, or use this procedure instead of that one.

 

Wouldn't they just look at you kinda funny, and say, "well, apparently you're better from the procedure I've just done, so what's your problem?......"

And I have to say that while I think it's commendable that you've moderated the drinking, I do think the only way to get things right is to give it up entirely. Is having a beer really worth all this BS in your life?

I agree. And that is the plan.

If I hear on the news tonight that Scabs the Clown from your local Fair died a mysterious death I'll be disappointed in you

No worries AC, and thanks man!

[a4a]

I don't know how she'd take it WWIU......think of it this way.....your doctor tells you on your last visit that you need surgery. So you go in, have the surgery done, and you're all better. The next day, you go up to your doctor and tell him/her, that they needed to use this instrument next time, or use this procedure instead of that one.

 

So your saying you are getting a minimal amount, certainly not enough?

 

what are you saying? You'll piss her off by sayin' she is not trying hard enough?

 

and why the hell is mr. tough man moose afraid to talk to his wife?

 

Let me tell ya. If my H came to me and said you need to clean the house more; I might think "screw you" but I would think about it later and think.... hell it is so damn important to him, I will try.

 

even though I hate his guts at the moment.

 

tell your wife to call me........ sounds like she is living a nice life and needs to show some appreciation in a way that YOU need her to.

 

That fruckin' simple. But you need to tell her.... or someone does.

 

You cannot expect her to guess.

 

Maybe she would open up to you and tell you what she needs from you too?

[whichwayisup]

I don't know how she'd take it WWIU

 

Moosey, but NOT opening up and telling her how you feel inside is not helping. WHO cares how she takes it. I don't mean that the way it reads, but if she gets upset, or mad, that's her choice. I would hope she would listen to you, respect you enough seeing as YOU are her husband, to hear you out. You can't control how she reacts to anything, all you can do is control yourself...I say lay it out for her and take a chance. Show emotion! (Not saying you have to cry or anything like that, just speak from your heart)

[Moose]

I'll talk to her as soon as I get a chance.....I may have to revert to this thread though.....

 

Doesn't anyone else have a lapse of memory when they try articulate their feelings?

 

Actually, when I think about it, I've never been good at that. And I think the reason why goes back to me feeling like I shouldn't be complaining.....like why do I feel like I have the right to need something when all I've done in the past is take, take, take......even though the last decade I've been on the giving end......?

 

How does one gain the respect to have the right to call someone out like that?

 

Am I making any sense?

[amaysngrace]

I'll talk to her as soon as I get a chance.....I may have to revert to this thread though.....

 

Doesn't anyone else have a lapse of memory when they try articulate their feelings?

 

Actually, when I think about it, I've never been good at that. And I think the reason why goes back to me feeling like I shouldn't be complaining.....like why do I feel like I have the right to need something when all I've done in the past is take, take, take......even though the last decade I've been on the giving end......?

 

How does one gain the respect to have the right to call someone out like that?

 

Am I making any sense?

 

Yeah you make a lot of sense. I guess it would be hard to ask for favors in your shoes. But the other side of it is having your needs unmet. You have to let her know how you feel. She can't read your mind.

 

I know you've taken in the past and you know you were wrong to. But it doesn't stop there. You are still worthy of give and take. It's your personal responsibilty to yourself to let your needs be known.

 

You have to get it out in the open Moose. To have a healthy relationship you need to ask for what you need.

 

Don't feel bad for wanting more. Most of us want more. It's what keeps us going. She probably wants more too.