New Catagory "Visual Cheating"

[rainfall]

rainfall and rtHawk,

I'm confused once again. What's the difference between fantasizing about sex, vast amounts of money or LOTR? Every single emotion or "feeling" you have is biochemical. If you enjoy watching a LOTR movie or enjoy fantasizing about money, your brain and body are reacting as such. It produces "feel good" biochemicals.

 

To take visual cheating a little further, what happens if your men quit watching porn but retain mental images in their minds about these fantasy women. Would this be considered cheating? If so, how would you know and how would you control your men at that point?

 

Again, I will state that I'm not porn fan. It does nothing for me but I don't care if someone casually views it, as long as it's not an addiction. The reason I don't consider it cheating is that there's no interaction between individuals.

 

 

Because thinking about winning the lottery does not involve random naked strangers (well I guess it could for some people.....). However for me it doesn't. I also do not fantasize about movies and the people in them.

[Herzen]

TBF;

you are a good fisherwoman!

I bit the bait, but let it go as it is still across the double yellow line-

I can buy that it isn't actual physical cheating!

It is tho the active seeking out of other women and becoming aroused by thme, their face, their eyes, their lips , their bodies and their body parts to become aroused by and in turn have sexual connection with...

that is the difference for me

LOTR - they are handsome men who portray characters... I am not sexually aroused by them and I do not seek them out for that purpose. They are in fact still real people.

Porn, they are objects yes, but still real women who are sought out for the purpose of fullfulling sexual arousal.

 

so, maybe not cheating, but innappropriate in a committed relationship for me.

I have not and do not make this an issue with my guy, I only mentioned something about it twice in 6 years, but it remains my silent (but for here) angst.

 

 

 

It is also well known that women are hard wired to procreate and reproduce; according to STUDIES, but that doesn't mean we continue to get pregnant every year.

Studies also show humans not necessarily to be monogamous, maybe in order to fulfill or biological nature, we should also all go about and practice polygamy and denounce the sanctitiy of a committed relationship.

 

fidelty is about compromise, committent, not about selfish, self-centered self-gratificaton.

 

Love is about as much about committment as it is about erotic exploration with one's SO... your lover and or your SO can be the source of that.

there is no domination or manipulation there.--equal respect.

 

don't question my fidelity or my psycholgical wellbeing because it doesn't suit your male-ego or need for control and power .

 

 

 

 

 

neuroses, insecurities and wild anxieities....

always the fall back and stand by justification for the lack of empathy and mindful willingness to excuse one's biological primal urge---

 

Why don't we castrate all husbands after freezing their sperm? That's the logical conclusion to all this man-bashing.

 

Neither Love nor Marriage is a license to chop off a guy's balls. That's a brave new feminized world of which I want no part. This is relationship fascism.

 

As for "male-ego" that plays no role, here. When a lover demands that I deny and quash my sexuality in all aspects except as it relates to her--including the realm of imagination, fantasy, aesthetics--she denies me my humanity. I mutilate my humanity for no one, let alone any ideal whether labeled "Love," "Marriage" or "Fidelity."

 

If that renders me a sexist pig, hear me oink.

[dropdeadlegs]

Are women who watch Brad Pitt movies or read romance novels guilty of visual or mental cheating?

I won't speak for all women, but when watching Legends of the Fall I'm pretty guilty of both!

 

Sometimes people can't help who they co-sneeze with. As long as they try not to blow their noses at the same time, they haven't crossed the line very far. I recommend that you keep your eyes open for co-sneezing patterns and especially, the sharing of the same bottle of anti-histamines. That to me is far too intimate and completely unacceptable behaviour.

Ahhh, we DO share the same anti-histime bottles, so it MUST be love, right?

(where's the tongue in cheek smiley?)

 

I'm guilty as charged of just about all the forms of "cheating" discussed here. Visual, mental, definitely olfactory. Guess I'm off to the Infidelity boards now to confess my sins.

[lindya]

It is tho the active seeking out of other women and becoming aroused by thme, their face, their eyes, their lips , their bodies and their body parts to become aroused by and in turn have sexual connection with...that is the difference for me.

 

I think porn can drive a wedge between couples, where one person (most usually the woman) dislikes it and the other (the man) sees it as an intrinsic part of his sex life. Discussing something like this with a partner isn't easy. As you've said...

 

I have not and do not make this an issue with my guy, I only mentioned something about it twice in 6 years, but it remains my silent (but for here) angst.

 

So you've been bottling this up really, and now you've come to Loveshack to share your feelings - with the consequence that you're told you're insecure. That word insecure can be used like a weapon sometimes. A way of telling you that everyone else is right, and that you're wrong. That if your partner views porn, this means he's a normal, red-blooded man, and if you get upset about it this means you are an uptight, abnormal woman. So you carry on bottling your feelings up...with all the problematic results that doing that entails. Anything rather than face the dreadful accusation of being an insecure, neurotic woman, right?

 

The drive to experience sexual arousal is very strong, and porn exploits that for commercial purposes. It portrays the usual cues for sexual arousal in a crude and often exaggerated (to the point of using models who are caricatures of what a normal woman looks like) images. Some men can use porn from time to time and not be particularly affected by it. For others it seems to become a replacement for sex. Perhaps a method of avoiding the intimacy with another person that sex requires. When it gets to that level, there's really not much that's healthy and red-blooded about it.

 

I don't see it as cheating, but excessive porn use definitely does strike me as a form of withdrawal from a relationship. So I suppose my question to you would be....is it the lusting after artificial images that bothers you, or is it that there's less intimacy than you would hope for between you and your partner. If it's the latter, is the problem exacerbated by his porn use?

[rtHawk]

If that renders me a sexist pig, hear me oink.[/quote}

 

me and thousands of others can hear you oink very loud and clearly!

 

I have no desire to "issue" your masculinity or your humanity or your sexuality thereby your humanity.

humanity is a much greater virtue than what stands behind your sexuality or masculinity!

 

Why don't we castrate all husbands after freezing their sperm? That's the logical conclusion to all this man-bashing.

 

Neither Love nor Marriage is a license to chop off a guy's balls. That's a brave new feminized world of which I want no part. This is relationship fascism.

 

man-bashing-

please, balls don't make the man--

his integrity does!

I will no longer subject myself to your "bashing"

done with any of your "defense, argumentative and nasty" attititude!

 

say like it is; I am grateful you aren't in my life just as much I am not in yours...

makes me appreciate my man!!! and the many men who are kind and thoughful on these boards allllll the more!

[Herzen]

I'm sorry you're offended. I was responding to the implications of your argument, and I did not intend to make any personal attacks. Often, my writing is too colorful for its own good.

 

On that note, I'll take my "balls" and unsubscribe from this Thread.

[rtHawk]

angst. So you've been bottling this up really, and now you've come to Loveshack to share your feelings - with the consequence that you're told you're insecure. That word insecure can be used like a weapon sometimes. A way of telling you that everyone else is right, and that you're wrong. That if your partner views porn, this means he's a normal, red-blooded man, and if you get upset about it this means you are an uptight, abnormal woman. So you carry on bottling your feelings up...with all the problematic results that doing that entails. Anything rather than face the dreadful accusation of being an insecure, neurotic woman, right?

 

The drive to experience sexual arousal is very strong, and porn exploits that for commercial purposes. It portrays the usual cues for sexual arousal in a crude and often exaggerated (to the point of using models who are caricatures of what a normal woman looks like) images. Some men can use porn from time to time and not be particularly affected by it. For others it seems to become a replacement for sex. Perhaps a method of avoiding the intimacy with another person that sex requires. When it gets to that level, there's really not much that's healthy and red-blooded about it.

 

I don't see it as cheating, but excessive porn use definitely does strike me as a form of withdrawal from a relationship. So I suppose my question to you would be....is it the lusting after artificial images that bothers you, or is it that there's less intimacy than you would hope for between you and your partner. If it's the latter, is the problem exacerbated by his porn use?

 

Lindya;

THANK YOU FOR your very simple empathatic and kind attempts to understand and not condemn!

the expoitation is certainly a huge concern...the gender self-degradation is pathetic.... women are just as much responsible for porn--- is it only between the legs that we can find acknowledgement, and attention----

 

the intimacy between me and my SO is absolute and where it is lacking has nothing to do with the porn at all.

lusting for the artificial images is the sore spot... arousal to someone other than me.

I am committed and in that I not only believe in eroticism, experimentation and love with my SO but I also work out, eat right, stay in shape and love to love him....

Porn is his masturbatory fodder when we are not together, and so to some extent I understand, but the want of another woman if even in this mode, sends a message to me... you lust for another.

 

thanks for being sweet! and trying to soften the hits!

[rainfall]

But rtHawk, this is exactly it. It's pure fantasy to these guys. Masturbation is about self-pleasuring. No one else is touching your man. He is touching himself. There is no emotional, mental or physical interaction between the object of fantasy and your man. Porn women are objects. I sincerely doubt these guys are interested in having an intellectual or soft-emotional conversation with these objects.

 

If you think about LOTR, there's a ton of female eye-candy in that movie. While you may not masturbate to it, please don't tell me you don't find some of these men appealing. If so, are you also not visual cheating by finding another attractive?

 

 

But when he is masturbating even though he is the one touching himself if he is pretending that another women is doing it that is where my problem is.As for LOTR I don't even really think about the femal eye candy while I watch the movie and to be honest the guys in that movie just really don't do anything for me. Thinking someone attractive isn't wrong, but thinking they are attractive and masturbating to them is to me wrong.

[Trialbyfire]

But when he is masturbating even though he is the one touching himself if he is pretending that another women is doing it that is where my problem is.As for LOTR I don't even really think about the femal eye candy while I watch the movie and to be honest the guys in that movie just really don't do anything for me. Thinking someone attractive isn't wrong, but thinking they are attractive and masturbating to them is to me wrong.

Might I ask how you know he's not fantasizing about someone else when he's making love to you? How will you control this?

[Trialbyfire]

I won't speak for all women, but when watching Legends of the Fall I'm pretty guilty of both!

 

 

Ahhh, we DO share the same anti-histime bottles, so it MUST be love, right?

(where's the tongue in cheek smiley?)

 

I'm guilty as charged of just about all the forms of "cheating" discussed here. Visual, mental, definitely olfactory. Guess I'm off to the Infidelity boards now to confess my sins.

Brad Pitt did look pretty hot in that movie, didn't he? I'm a visual cheater too, although I'm a latent one because I like the way he looks clothed and have never taken it beyond that. I've noticed a lot of good-looking men so it makes me an unrepentant visual serial cheater. I also enjoy the smell of certain Armani colognes on different men, strange men I've never met or sometimes even seen, just experiences through lingering scent.

 

Awww, intimacy at it's finest. Allergies do bring people together.

[dropdeadlegs]

Brad Pitt did look pretty hot in that movie, didn't he? I'm a visual cheater too, although I'm a latent one because I like the way he looks clothed and have never taken it beyond that. I've noticed a lot of good-looking men so it makes me an unrepentant visual serial cheater. I also enjoy the smell of certain Armani colognes on different men, strange men I've never met or sometimes even seen, just experiences through lingering scent.

 

Awww, intimacy at it's finest. Allergies do bring people together.

I've seen M. Pitt without his clothes (ala Playgirl, before he legally had it removed from the stands) and I PREFER the clothed version. Not that he looked bad, he didn't (imagine that!) but it has nothing to do with my particular fantasies of him with the long blond hair, and that manliness portrayed in the film. I'm unrepentant as well.

 

Armani colognes....ahhhhh. I'm unrepentant once again.

[rainfall]

Might I ask how you know he's not fantasizing about someone else when he's making love to you? How will you control this?

 

 

Well because I trust him when he says he loves me and finds me attractive enough so he doesn't have to do that. Besides if he is thinking of someone esle then its NOT making love its just him using me to get off.

[Trialbyfire]

Well because I trust him when he says he loves me and finds me attractive enough so he doesn't have to do that. Besides if he is thinking of someone esle then its NOT making love its just him using me to get off.

Exactly.....

[Flyin in Clouds]

... I wouldn't even imagine staring or leering or following a man with my eyes when I was with a boyfriend/date/SO. Doing so is simply disrespectful and rude.

 

As a guy I wouldn't care who my wife looked at. In fact I'd like to know what kind of men she was attracted to physically. Maybe something she found attractive about the clothes, or hair sytle or something... I'd consider making a change for her if she'd like it.

 

Anyway, I didn't understand the point of him pointing that out to her.

Maybe he liked her hair color or cut. Maybe he liked her eye shadow... or something.

 

I've said this before, women are like roses, all different sizes, color, shapes and scents. All are lovely. How can I say one is prettier than another. So how is my wife special amoung all the roses? Because she's the one that says she loves me. And that makes her stand out from all the rest. That doesn't mean I can't admire and yes "leer" at other women without dissing her. The other women are just a pretty picture.

 

I understand appreciating beauty, but why make a point of interrupting a group conversation to let his wife know, in front of other friends, that he found the server attractive. ICK. It just seemed like he was trying to humiliate her or something, I really felt badly.

Amazing how your own insecurities get projected on to the actions of others. Maybe he liked her dress and want to point out that his wife might look good in something like that. I know if I was at Hooters I'd be saying to the wife, "honey, see those tight t-shirts... yeah, why don't you wear something like that... :cool:"

[Flyin in Clouds]

does the coolidge effect justify hurting your SO; with teenage strippers?

Is hurting your man by denying his basic biological urges justified to satisfy your desires to be the only woman he ever looks at naked? What is with you crazy women. You can't be satisfied that you are the only one he goes to sleep with? You have to blind him as well so he never sees other women?

 

It is extremely unrealistic as the average woman is NOT 6 ft tall, with long legs,

You think it's the legs we are looking at in the VS commercial selling bras? dat... guess again...

 

with $ to pay for a physcial trainer, nutrionist, spa treatments, all the nice clothes and trinkets, for a dermatologist to do facial treatments, and for a make up artist and trips and travel to unwind.

Aren't all those just excuses for not making the most of what you've got? I know some women that are some over weight (not huge, but not skinny) that are pretty sexy. It's more their attitude toward sex and men that matters.

 

 

Most women have full time jobs, children, run around with kids. errands. school, work, bills and then some and then fall asleep exhausted...

that is reality--not some VS models for the sale of some bras and underwear which are highly overrated anyway!

Well don't bitch then that guys aren't turned on by women like that and more turned on by VS models... you made those choices. And again, it's all an excuse because some of the hottest women are dropping off their kids at the elementary school. In their very short tennis shorts..

 

 

why admit to something some women don't feel for anyone else but their SO?

 

for women, the biological need is for procreation and the continuity of the species...

we so though live in advanced technology and sophistication (albeit selfish, self-centered, self-serving and all about self-gratification)

otherwise, according to biology, we'd be pregnant every year

 

primal urges--- Yawn!

Apparently you didn't read enough about it or simply don't get it. But that's OK. Men are excited by variety. That is simply the way men are. You can ignore that if you want, get upset about it if want or yawn at it. But then don't complain about it.

 

One article basically said women's fashion is in responce to the Coolidge effect, so that the woman becomes "a different woman" by changing her hair style, hair color, make up, clothing style, etc.

[rainfall]

Is hurting your man by denying his basic biological urges justified to satisfy your desires to be the only woman he ever looks at naked? What is with you crazy women. You can't be satisfied that you are the only one he goes to sleep with? You have to blind him as well so he never sees other women?

 

Apparently you didn't read enough about it or simply don't get it. But that's OK. Men are excited by variety. That is simply the way men are. You can ignore that if you want, get upset about it if want or yawn at it. But then don't complain about it.

 

 

So just because I am the only women he sleeps with I am supposed to let him see strippers and have other women rub all over him? You know if he wants variety he can either be single or not get upset if I ever decide to let myself go" (which so far I haven't I still work hard to look good for him.)

[rtHawk]

As a guy I wouldn't care who my wife looked at. In fact I'd like to know what kind of men she was attracted to physically. Maybe something she found attractive about the clothes, or hair sytle or something... I'd consider making a change for her if she'd like it.

why, because she doesn't like you for who you are or because of your own insecurties?

You think it's the legs we are looking at in the VS commercial selling bras? dat... guess again...

please we arent't that myopic, that is just one of the features!

Aren't all those just excuses for not making the most of what you've got?

how do you know we don't make the most of what we have and our resources and use any excuses????

maybe we do, but your insinuation was we all eat donuts and don't go to the gym--shape up or else deal.

Because she's the one that says she loves me. And that makes her stand out from all the rest/QUOTE]

she is special because she loves you! sweet;

yes, but isn't she special because of who she is foremost!?

 

Is hurting your man by denying his basic biological urges justified to satisfy your desires to be the only woman he ever looks at naked? What is with you crazy women. You can't be satisfied that you are the only one he goes to sleep with?

hurting you?? you are kidding right?? you feel pain if you don't watch porn, or ogle other women???

really; explain this concept of hurting ...

One article basically said women's fashion is in responce to the Coolidge effect, so that the woman becomes "a different woman" by changing her hair style, hair color, make up, clothing style, etc.

that is competition...

the coolidge effect---the bible, the torah, the scrolls and the scripture...

if men need and want variety, then why make a committment, why get married...???

 

I KNOW men who dont need varitey, are happy and satisfied with their SO however she looks, they don't cheat, lie, or hide anything.... they are simply satisfied, in love and content....

they still have balls, children, a marriage and romance in their lives..

they don't need porn ....strip clubs etc,

they have no problems noticing a lovely woman but don't leer or disgrace their So around them...

 

it is a conscious choice not an obligation or a basic function of living...

[Flyin in Clouds]

Flyin in Clouds:

 

The commercials only make women feel insecure and pressured to look like that for their SO's.

 

And so your answer is to not even bother trying to look sexy and attractive to your mate? That's loving your man? Dressing like a slob? See it's not even bothering to try to look sexy that is a HUGE turn off to me. (And I don't mean you personally, don't know if you do or don't dressy sexy. I mean if a woman doesn't bother to dress sexy her mates still supposed to get turned on my her?)

 

I've told the wife that any black bras and panties are sexy. Does she wear black? No. So what does that tell me? She just doesn't give a frick about what might turn me on so she doens't turn me on anymore. I'm wondering if some other woman that was more interested in plain old dirty sex would be more of a turn on? Maybe I'll see what the women a strip club do for me.

 

I fell for it--I did buy sexy bras and panties from them. Of course, they don't look the same on me--thus, my comment about the commercials giving men unrealistic expectations. And I think most women certainly wouldn't mind looking like a VS model and be the only sexual fantasy of their SO--that's why I think they only make women insecure.

News flash... even if I was like Heff and had three women every night, I'd still have fantasies about other women. Harems is one thing the Muslims got right.

 

Maybe your wife won't buy them because she knows she wouldn't look like what you're looking at in the commercials.

arggg... I know she won't look like the models. She'll look like her - only with some sexy undies... which, if she made the effort would mean more to me than her losing 40 pounds. It's her attitude and the implied "I don't care about being sexy for you anymore" that is the problem. I guess she figures I'm not worth the effort. So I'm thinking of looking elsewhere.

 

How many women do? And has she had kids? All that does is totally ruin the body. And no one can be young forever! Even Gisele is being replaced by younger up and comers--ouch.

You can remain young at heart. You can remain sexy because sexy isn't about age. It's about being interested in sex and wanting to stimulate your man. (or a man wanting to stimulate and please his woman. Yes, men should do what it takes to be sexy for their wives benifit too. Well groomed, dress sharply, take a shower once a week... I don't know - whatever turns you women on. )

 

I don't eat donuts. Why do you assume I'm overweight and out of shape?

Why do you assume that was directed at you personally. It was a general comment... This is a conversation with many participants. Don't take everything personal because it's not meant that way.

 

I'm not. I look very young for my age, am "hot",

Glad to hear it. Send me a picture and I'll send you a whistle. ... I might prefer "leering" at you than the teeny boppers at the stip club.

 

I do wear sexy underthings, etc. I'm 48 and my insecurities probably stem from my waning youth and the recent disclosure of my husband's strip club/lap dance experience.

Oh for heaven sake. Is he goint to dump you for some airhead teeny bopper? Maybe if your attitude about yourself, your sexiness and self esteem all go to pot.

 

And frankly I prefer "mature" women. They are much more interesting.

 

Don't waste any of your remaining time fretting about this incident. Enjoy being the sexy you while you can. You've got maybe 30 good years left. Enjoy them.

 

Do you eat donuts?

Only good ones.

 

And unfortunately both my wife and I do need to loose weight. I worry about her health. We try walking but fell off the wagon. Gotta start that up again.

 

I was in france with my wife and we walked by a shop and I pointed out a bra to her that I thought would look really good on her. And of course she gave me the "you are only thinking about the model" - hell it was a painting, wasn't even a real photo, highly photoshopped. Anyway, no what I was thinking about, as she was at a meeting and I was running around a mountain for 10 miles, is what my wife would like in that bra and having her wear it all day and then that night... . but she totally ruined the mood. Her loss.

[kimmy1977]

Hi im new to this site so im not sure what to say or do but i have issues with my husband of 13 years who used to watch porn every now and then now he is so obssesed with it and it doesnt stop at watching it at home now on the tv its in the books and on the pc its at his bike club he is even doing these chats with pornstars.I mean it doesnt replace the sex between us that really hasnt changed much it just does alot to my emotional status it litteraly makes me cry and heart broken like the other day i checked out the cookies on the pc and found hes been going to this web page looking for another woman to join us and that sent me through the roof im sorry to be pooring out my soul but i dont know who i can talk to.

[new_stella]

... yes, I'd like to have sex with just about every woman I've ever met

Yeah, you are every woman’s dream

[rtHawk]

Hi im new to this site so im not sure what to say or do but i have issues with my husband of 13 years who used to watch porn every now and then now he is so obssesed with it and it doesnt stop at watching it at home now on the tv its in the books and on the pc its at his bike club he is even doing these chats with pornstars.I mean it doesnt replace the sex between us that really hasnt changed much it just does alot to my emotional status it litteraly makes me cry and heart broken like the other day i checked out the cookies on the pc and found hes been going to this web page looking for another woman to join us and that sent me through the roof im sorry to be pooring out my soul but i dont know who i can talk to.

 

Hi Kimmie!

please dont be sorry for pouring out your soul;

sometimes these things are hard to discuss or confide in with family or friends!

I wish to be helpful to you without projecting onto your situation how I feel about the subject, but you probably have read my posts.

first, have you spoken with him about any of this, your feelings and how this affects you emotionally?

that is the first and most important step, for him to hear you out and reflect with you on understanding you, your feelings and why he does what he does.

 

Secondly, it is purported by others that this is just fantasy and so this seems to be his fantasy, but as far as going to the extreme of contacting a woman to have a threesome, if he hasnt even discussed this with you, is crossing the boundaries of fantasy and reality.

 

YOur emotionally wellbeing should be just as important to you, and him as your physcial wellbeing!

[electric_sheep]

I can't tell if the OP is serious or not.

 

Regardless, everyone defines the terms of their relationships the way THEY want to, right?

 

Personally, my gf and I love sitting at the cafe, drinking coffee, and checking out both hot girls AND guys.

 

[LakesideDream]

Again, the OP (that's me) IS/WAS being seriously sarcastic. Using hyperbol to point out the pointlessness of trying to control every aspect of life, and labeling the things you don't like "cheating".

 

In another current thread I tried to be serious and make the same point, with mixed success. In that thread a woman was very upset that her SO looked at attractive women in public. While its a rude habit, in my opinion it's not a felony.