Divorce as friends, fantasy or reality???

[fishfiend34]

I have long since fallen out of love with my wife, though I respect her greatly and feel badly for what my recent actions have put her through (affair). I want to know if an amicable divorce is possible. Specifically, I would like to hear from someone who has actually been through a so-called "friendly" divorce. These are the criteria I am looking for.

 

• We remain friends, get along (mostly), help one another out (within appropriate limits).
  
• We cooperate on raising the kids (this one is in my book the most important).
  
• We didnt try to hurt each other unnecessarily in terms of finances, custody, or separation of assets/possessions when we divorced.
  
• We can be civil and even friendly with one another, attend birthday parties together, not a lot of wierdness, our families still keep in touch at least around the kids.
  
• Et Cetera

Im not looking to ease my conscience as far as desiring a divorce (OK, maybe a little bit). I mainly want to know if this is possible. I feel like my wife and I have the potential to do this, but not to reconcile in a romantic way. By the way, our kids are only 6 and 4.

 

Any sincere help would be greatly appreciated.

[hurting_in_nw]

My wife's cheating has destroyed any chance of us ever being friends. In fact, right now the whole 8 years I spent with her feels like a lie, like a complete waste of my time, aside from my son who I love more than anything.

 

Our divorce has been as amicable as possible, but once the papers are signed, I don't want to see her for a long, long time. Give your STBXW space...trying to maintain a friendship with her now is only going to mindf**k her into thinking there is a chance you may come back to her, and you clearly have no intention of doing that. Let her recover completely first from what you've done before you try to pressure her into maintaining a relationship of any sort with you. Maybe down the road, after she's completely moved on, she will be capable of doing that, but to try now will only prolong her pain and increase the time it will take for her to recover from what you've put her through. Feel free to read my thread to see what a betrayed spouse goes through, and the effects of contact with the betrayer during recovery.

 

As for your conscience, with all due respect, you don't deserve to have that eased if you've cheated. It's one of the many consequences you will have to learn to live with because of your actions.

[annabelle75]

Yes, it is possible if you both want it. When my ex and I divorced it was rocky at first but with in a year we were going to movies togther with our daughter and hanging out for holidays and such. We genuinely are friends now and not just for the sake of our child. Much like you, leading to our divorce wasan affair and other very painful problems. I know most people in our lives can't believe he and I are friends, but we really are and it makes us both happy.

 

If she is willing to keep things amicable as possible, it can happen. I hope you are as successful as we have been.

[Mustang Sally]

Of course, only you and your wife can decide if this kind of arrangement is possible.

 

But, I guess I would ask if you are still involved with the person you had the affair with? If so, then I think that might make it a bit difficult for you wife...

[hurting_in_nw]

But, I guess I would ask if you are still involved with the person you had the affair with? If so, then I think that might make it a bit difficult for you wife...

 

Yes, this is definitely the hardest part for me to swallow.

[Ladyjane14]

I want to know if an amicable divorce is possible. Specifically, I would like to hear from someone who has actually been through a so-called "friendly" divorce.

 

I haven't been through it myself, but as I search the old brain files... I'm sorry, but not one springs to mind. Annabelle's current success sounds promising, but honestly... I'm thinking it's more the exception rather than the rule. I'm in my mid-forties. I know tons of divorced people in real life. And I truly can't think of even one couple who would voluntarily have anything to do with each other post-divorce.

 

I know some who are civil, and even tolerant of their former spouse's near proximity at family functions, but that's about as far as it goes.

 

These are the criteria I am looking for.

 

• We remain friends, get along (mostly), help one another out (within appropriate limits).
  
• We cooperate on raising the kids (this one is in my book the most important).
  
• We didnt try to hurt each other unnecessarily in terms of finances, custody, or separation of assets/possessions when we divorced.
  
• We can be civil and even friendly with one another, attend birthday parties together, not a lot of wierdness, our families still keep in touch at least around the kids.
  
• Et Cetera

Im not looking to ease my conscience as far as desiring a divorce (OK, maybe a little bit). I mainly want to know if this is possible. I feel like my wife and I have the potential to do this, but not to reconcile in a romantic way. By the way, our kids are only 6 and 4.

 

I'm just not sure these are realistic expectations.

 

When you think about it, a WS (wayward spouse) doesn't have a whole lot to offer in terms of real friendship. From the betrayed spouse's POV, this is a person who has ALREADY demonstrated their capacity for betrayal, someone who's dealt a devastating blow to their very core, someone who has changed their life irreparably, and wasted their investment of YEARS.

 

You know the old saying... With friends like that, who needs enemies?"

 

I think you have to ask yourself... what have you got to offer that your wife would want? What can you offer that she can't get from better friends?

 

If you're dead set on your path... I think you'd be wise to follow HN's lead and not push her. There's no way to establish parameters on this that would guarantee you the outcome you want anyway. This just isn't something you can decide in advance. After all, everybody gets to make their own choices and pick their own friends. And once you've left her... you will no longer have any say in who she chooses and who she doesn't.

 

So, in answer to your title question... I'd have to say "fantasy". It's unrealistic to believe that you can dictate or predict your wife's reaction, now or in the future. In fact, she'll serve HERSELF better if she rejects that notion out of hand. It's hard to move on, when you've got your ex stuck halfway up your butt.

[Chrome Barracuda]

If my girlfriend / wife cheated on me and just mentally abused me and treated me like trash meanwhile F-ing another man in my face, could I be friends with a woman like that?

 

I'd look at her like she's a deranged b!tch!

 

Are you still with the OW? then it's gonna take some time for her to get through it, remember your the one who hurt her. You have to atone for your sins and ask for forgiveness, No matter what loveless feelings you feel about her, with the affair, your the wrong one period! being friends with someone who stabbed you in the back is unrealistic. It might be civil but friends will never be.

 

Remember your the one who cheated, Does she still want the marriage if so, then how would you think she would feel. First thing is to not put yourself first and think about her feelings, Her pain, her failure that she couldnt restore a marriage. Own your own *****.

 

Right now you want to bury your head in the sand and start over. Thinking everything's gonna be okay but it's not and that's for real. Give her space and respect and treat her with kindness. Validate her feelings, for you betrayed her and now to her your walking away.

 

You can be friends but dont hold your breath. Especially if your having these feelings that your happiness is paramount while hers doesnt matter, is that how you treat the mother of your children? Is that how you show your kids how to respect people. And how they act when they grow up?

[Guest]

Well, I would say I appreciate the commentary except for the fact that people are making some serious assumptions here. No, I am not with the "OW." I have made more ammends in terms of my affair than you could probably imagine. In addition, my wife is more than willing to stay married to me (dont ask me why). I just want to make this as painless as possible.

[sumdude]

I've been wondering the same thing... on the other side of the equation. My wife left me three months ago. She claims there's no other man but I have no idea what to believe. She wants us to be freinds....

 

That's a tough one. The problems in our relationship had to do with me having a drinking problem, which I have dealt with and some In-Law issues... I was never mean or cheated , in fact I treated her darn well.

 

Bottom line is that she left me, rejected me and our marriage vows. She totally broke the lifelong commitment. Friends don't break commitments.

 

Every time we have a 'freindly' talk or meeting regardless of my rational mind telling me it's over some small part of me holds onto hope of getting back together. At the same time I get really PO'd too. Is makes moving on that much more difficult.

 

Since there are children involved the two of you will have to find some way to at least be civil and freindly-ish. Don't expect your offer of freindship to be accepted much with the affair and all. Best bet is to contact her as little as possible and give her a chance to heal becasue every time you talk to her it brings all the bad feelings to the surface. Maybe in time time a sort of freindship is possible but don't count on it.

 

Hell man you cheated , likely lied you azz off, who knows what else... AND YOU EXPECT HER TO BE FREINDS? The ONLY reason she would do it is for the kids.

[Trimmer]

Hell man you cheated , likely lied you azz off, who knows what else... AND YOU EXPECT HER TO BE FREINDS? The ONLY reason she would do it is for the kids.

I think this is what it comes down to for me, too. My wife had started up with her OM before she even made a point to tell me she was having thoughts about ending our marriage. I don't see a foundation for friendship there.

 

Having said that, we have built a relationship as parents which is close to what you describe, with one exception. I'm not sure I would really describe us as "friends", but we are friendly, cooperative, and supportive within our relationship as parents. I tell anyone who will listen (mostly here on LS) that early on, I realized that my wife was several different characters in my life: Spouse, lover, friend, mother of our kids... Well, the divorce and the conditions under which it happened pretty much assured me that the first two (Spouse, lover) were gone; the last (mother) I accepted would be an important part of my life and my kids' lives, so I needed to figure out how to make that work.

 

As far as the "friend" character, I wondered about that too, I grappled with it for a while, and I ultimately ended up feeling like I was refusing to let go of that as the last reminder of the spouse I lost, so to get myself "well" and move on, I had to let it go and grieve its loss.

 

Now, we have what may seem like an unusually civil relationship. I am invited and included in events with the in-laws when the kids are involved, we both seem to be very generously supportive of the other in our roles as parents, both being very flexible with kids' schedules, etc... And while you may think it outrageous, I have accepted that the OM will be a part of my kids' lives, and I know him well enough to have accepted that he may even contribute positively to their lives in some ways. It takes a lot of confidence in my own sense of fatherhood to say that, but again, I check my ego at the door for the kids' sake.

 

I think I have come to realize that by being willing to completely let go of the spouse and even the friend characters, that actually helped me to foster a more healthy relationship with my ex as a parent. I have accepted my losses and I grieve them honestly, and I don't feel like I need to get my "pound of flesh" any more, so I avoid letting that bitterness interfere with our parental relationship.

 

So while I think your secenarios are generally possible, I would say two things:

 

(a) it probably depends more on the "left" or betrayed spouse, who starts out feeling in a position of less control and/or power; if he or she really wants to make it work (and it takes a lot of work to get there) then it's possible if you do your part. If the bitterness lingers, then no dice;

 

(b) probably the only reason it worked for me was that very early on, I had my focus on the kids' welfare. If we hadn't had kids, I think it quite possible that I would have moved hundreds of miles away, I might not have dealt with my grief and loss in as healthy a fashion, and I imagine myself living as "angry-bitter-guy," because I wouldn't have had as strong an external reason (the kids) to pull myself together.

 

So again, on your list, I think most of the "civil parenting" stuff is possible, although I think the "friends" part is unlikely. I think much of it will be outside your control, and will depend on her getting past feelings of anger, loss, betrayal, etc.

 

I am proud of where I am, and of the parental relationship I have built with my ex, because given the circumstances, I think I'm doing the best I can for my kids. I don't like to think this type of outcome is terribly rare, because I like to think parents would generally put their kids' developmental needs first.

 

On the other hand, I am realistic enough to know (and, for the kids' sake, saddened to think) that it is probably not terribly common, either,

[LucreziaBorgia]

• We remain friends, get along (mostly), help one another out (within appropriate limits).
  
• We cooperate on raising the kids (this one is in my book the most important).
  
• We didnt try to hurt each other unnecessarily in terms of finances, custody, or separation of assets/possessions when we divorced.
  
• We can be civil and even friendly with one another, attend birthday parties together, not a lot of wierdness, our families still keep in touch at least around the kids.
  
• Et Cetera

Im not looking to ease my conscience as far as desiring a divorce (OK, maybe a little bit). I mainly want to know if this is possible. I feel like my wife and I have the potential to do this, but not to reconcile in a romantic way. By the way, our kids are only 6 and 4.

 

Sounds like my divorce, actually. We are having a very amicable divorce. The reason? We are completely on the same page emotionally, and are both ready to move on. We love each other, but it is not a romantic or sexual sort of love - a type of love that doesn't require us to be married in order to still share it. So... we are divorcing so that we can both move on with our lives. We'll still share a life with one another and each other's families - just not as husband and wife - more like Mom and Dad, friends, and family members to each other.

 

Can it work for you? Only if your wife is in agreement with you, and is not in love anymore with you either. If she still loves you as a husband, and wants to stay married, don't expect her to agree on an amicable divorce. She has to want to move on as much as you do.

[hurting_in_nw]

And while you may think it outrageous, I have accepted that the OM will be a part of my kids' lives, and I know him well enough to have accepted that he may even contribute positively to their lives in some ways. It takes a lot of confidence in my own sense of fatherhood to say that, but again, I check my ego at the door for the kids' sake.

 

Trimmer, just out of curiosity, how long did this take for you? Personally I want my wife's OM to have NOTHING to do with my kid, but I know that I won't always be able to control that. I think he's a piece of s**t, and I fear that someone who was able to cheat with a married woman on his own wife might not be the best person to be teaching my kid morals. I also feel at this point that were he to stick around, the day would come that I would let my son know exactly who he is and what his role was in the destruction of our family. Of course, that wouldn't happen until my son is much older, but it would happen nonetheless. I don't plan on lying to my son to protect his mother and the OM from the s**tty thing they did.

[dgiirl]

I have long since fallen out of love with my wife, though I respect her greatly and feel badly for what my recent actions have put her through (affair). I want to know if an amicable divorce is possible. Specifically, I would like to hear from someone who has actually been through a so-called "friendly" divorce. These are the criteria I am looking for.

 

• We remain friends, get along (mostly), help one another out (within appropriate limits).
  
• We cooperate on raising the kids (this one is in my book the most important).
  
• We didnt try to hurt each other unnecessarily in terms of finances, custody, or separation of assets/possessions when we divorced.
  
• We can be civil and even friendly with one another, attend birthday parties together, not a lot of wierdness, our families still keep in touch at least around the kids.
  
• Et Cetera

Im not looking to ease my conscience as far as desiring a divorce (OK, maybe a little bit). I mainly want to know if this is possible. I feel like my wife and I have the potential to do this, but not to reconcile in a romantic way. By the way, our kids are only 6 and 4.

 

Any sincere help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

To be blunt, (but non confrontational) i think this is ONLY about easing your conscience. As LJ stated beautifully, what exactly do YOU have to offer your wife?

 

You promised your wife till death do you part. You promised your wife to be faithful. You promised your wife to grow old and grey together. You promised to take care of her. You promised to be honest and truthful.

 

Despite all of those promises, you fell out of love with your wife long ago. (Did you fail to mention this to her when it happened?) You had an affair, which always involves a ton of lies. And now you are leaving her. You've broken all the promises you've told her, and now you still want her in your life, but only as friends so you can screw other people.

 

Why exactly do YOU want to be friends with her?

 

The only way this can ever happen is if you both want it and both are no longer in love with one another. If the desire for a divorce is not mutual, it's going to take a LOT of time for her to get over it. Maybe, once she comes to terms with the divorce, and has a better life for herself without you in it, once she has her self esteem back, maybe you can be friends. But I think the best you can ever hope for is civility.

 

I never understood the desire for people to go from lovers to friends. How can one find another lover if their ex is still around?

[annabelle75]

I'm not liking the posts in this thread that instead of addressing whether or not it is possible to have an amicable divorce have chosen to pass judgement on the OP and tell him why they think he isn't worthy of her friendship. Although I value a great deal of the support and encouragement that comes from the people her it concerns me when I see people project their own bitterness and anger from their situations onto others.

 

I don't want to discourage the OP from posting here. Although he may have had an affair it doesn't mean he is a bad person. We don't know what the circumtnaces of his relationship were or how his wife feels about the divorce. She may be just as ready to end it and move on with her life as he is.

 

I know its hard sometimes but I think we all need to sit back at look at things objectively every now and again and not make assumptions based on our own failed relationships.

[dgiirl]

I know its hard sometimes but I think we all need to sit back at look at things objectively every now and again and not make assumptions based on our own failed relationships.

 

I think everyone in this thread has been very objective. And I think it's important to look at the realities of a situation. If the leaver wants to maintain a relationship with the leavee, it's important for them to see it from their point of view.

[bkz]

I'm not liking the posts in this thread that instead of addressing whether or not it is possible to have an amicable divorce have chosen to pass judgement on the OP and tell him why they think he isn't worthy of her friendship. Although I value a great deal of the support and encouragement that comes from the people her it concerns me when I see people project their own bitterness and anger from their situations onto others.

 

You couldnt have said it better here annabelle, at least in support of what people are saying to him!! Speaking from my own experiance.......My STBX not only had an affair but she's now living with him in what used to be our home. SO, my own bitterness and anger as you put it is probely what he'll be dealing with in his sitch with his W. He asked if theres a chance of a friendship with his STBX and I think people with first hand experiance are just telling him the truth from there perspective.

 

In my sitch theres NO WAY i'll EVER be friends with her after what she's done and I feel like my 13 years with her are a lie and with the exception of my kids I regret ever having met her. Now if she hadnt remained with the OM there would be a better chance id be open to mabye being on speaking terms with her but thats even iffy though it would make things easier.

[Billy Bob]

Everyone seems to always "friends" with their spouse until they re-marry... Then the friendship often goes flying out the window. Just an observation.

[reddog63]

To be blunt, (but non confrontational) i think this is ONLY about easing your conscience. As LJ stated beautifully, what exactly do YOU have to offer your wife?

 

You promised your wife till death do you part. You promised your wife to be faithful. You promised your wife to grow old and grey together. You promised to take care of her. You promised to be honest and truthful.

 

Despite all of those promises, you fell out of love with your wife long ago. (Did you fail to mention this to her when it happened?) You had an affair, which always involves a ton of lies. And now you are leaving her. You've broken all the promises you've told her, and now you still want her in your life, but only as friends so you can screw other people.

 

Why exactly do YOU want to be friends with her?

 

The only way this can ever happen is if you both want it and both are no longer in love with one another. If the desire for a divorce is not mutual, it's going to take a LOT of time for her to get over it. Maybe, once she comes to terms with the divorce, and has a better life for herself without you in it, once she has her self esteem back, maybe you can be friends. But I think the best you can ever hope for is civility.

 

I never understood the desire for people to go from lovers to friends. How can one find another lover if their ex is still around?

 

 

 

This comment is off the subject some, but this post made me wonder about it again and wonder what others think.

 

This comment about.....you promised to death do you part. When I was contemplating separating from my wife, she used that line too. But what comes to mind is, there is more to the initial vows then that. There typically is honor and obey, although not all say that anymore. But what I am getting to, when someone uses that "card" it makes me think, well, where was the honor and obeying part (and I am not talking about the subservant tone of it). And it is not just the honor and obeying part.......but just the intent of what the other parts of the vows meant.

 

Maybe it is not giving husband/wife any sex, or being verbally nasty or not being financially responsible, etc etc. But one will still pull out the......you promised till death do us part.......

 

Reminds me of the meatloaf song lyrics......

 

I started swearing to my god and on my mother's grave

That I would love you to the end of time

I swore that I would love you to the end of time!

 

 

So now I'm praying for the end of time

To hurry up and arrive

Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you

I don't think that I can really survive

I'll never break my promise or forget my vow

But God only knows what I can do right now

I'm praying for the end of time

It's all that I can do

Praying for the end of time, so I can end my time with you!!!

[DesperateDad]

I think lots of people go through the stage of wanting to be friends with an ex. I also think it's very rare that they can be friends, real friends, that is. Think of the reasons why: The person who is being left desperately wants to hold on to any part of the former relationship and the person who is doing the leaving wants to assuage the guilt they're feeling about leaving, especially if they're having an affair.

 

I think it's very possible and very good to be on polite speaking terms with an ex, most especially if there are children involved, but as for being friends who really trust each other, it's not likely. Would you trust anyone else who had betrayed you, lied to you, and cheated you?

[sumdude]

In a p[erfect world maybe people could forgive and forget enough to be friends. But I just don't see it realistically. If there are kids then out of necessity there should be at least a 'freindly aquaintance' atmosphere.

 

Without kids then I say:

 

We made a promise to go forever

I was your mate, I was your lover

I'm not your friend, I'm not your brother

You need to talk? Go call your mother

[Herzen]

Sounds like my divorce, actually. We are having a very amicable divorce. The reason? We are completely on the same page emotionally, and are both ready to move on. We love each other, but it is not a romantic or sexual sort of love - a type of love that doesn't require us to be married in order to still share it. So... we are divorcing so that we can both move on with our lives. We'll still share a life with one another and each other's families - just not as husband and wife - more like Mom and Dad, friends, and family members to each other.

 

Can it work for you? Only if your wife is in agreement with you, and is not in love anymore with you either. If she still loves you as a husband, and wants to stay married, don't expect her to agree on an amicable divorce. She has to want to move on as much as you do.

 

My post-divorce experiences mirror LB's. My ex and I had what they sometimes call a "good divorce" about 3 years ago. Our kids, however, are now 18 and 20 so that makes it easier. It's still very hard on them, though--at least at the beginning.

 

My experience is that no two divorces are alike--just like marriages. But it definitely takes the cooperation of both mom and dad for this to work. Both must agree to act as mom and dad even though they've stopped acting as husband and wife.

 

You do this for the kids in the hope that the end of the marriage does not spell the end of the family. Sometimes it works (as in our case). And often it doesn't.

 

Roll the dice.

[Trimmer]

Both must agree to act as mom and dad even though they've stopped acting as husband and wife.

 

You do this for the kids in the hope that the end of the marriage does not spell the end of the family.

See now, it usually takes me several paragraphs to sum up what Herzen has put quite nicely into two sentences here. If you can truly accept and get past the end of the spousal relationship, it's possible (for some) to continue a good parental relationship, but I think the whole "let's be friends" thing, on it's own, tends to be more of what DD is saying here:

 

...the person who is being left desperately wants to hold on to any part of the former relationship and the person who is doing the leaving wants to assuage the guilt they're feeling about leaving, especially if they're having an affair.

[hurting_in_nw]

My STBXW will know me as nothing more than words on her computer screen for quite some time. Doesn't mean I can't be a good father to my son.

[dgiirl]

This comment is off the subject some, but this post made me wonder about it again and wonder what others think.

 

Some of you seem to disagree with my choice of words but my underlying question is still valid. Why would you want to be friends with someone you cheated on and are leaving a relationship from? I'm not trying to attack the OP for his choices, but I am asking, from a purely objective view point of what valid reason one might have to _remain_ friends with a person they did this to?

[Trimmer]

Some of you seem to disagree with my choice of words but my underlying question is still valid. Why would you want to be friends with someone you cheated on and are leaving a relationship from? I'm not trying to attack the OP for his choices, but I am asking, from a purely objective view point of what valid reason one might have to _remain_ friends with a person they did this to?

Other than "for the kids", I completely agree with you. It would be like picking a scab; I don't see any benefit to it. My comments are all in the context of the situation with kids.

 

If it weren't for them, I have little doubt that I would have moved on (I was the "left" spouse) with no interest in maintaining any relationship whatever, and I expect my ex (the leaving spouse) would likely have done the same.