by purpose of the OM and W forum

[hardcase]

Nope. That isn't I have said at all.

 

I have asked you what your reason for posting here is and why you feel your point of view is valuable and hove received no response..

 

Then thanks for not responding to me....err..if thats what you think you are doing... ??

[hardcase]

I think you have let your experinece with other threads taint your view of this one. No one is being judged here. The whole point is that we shouldn't be judging each other..

 

What...are you gonna organize another Hands Across America or something?....sing Kumbaya?...hold a night time candle vigil to save a serial killer from the electric chair?

[annabelle75]

Look, just like in real life, people get judged all the time. You can't control how someone feels or reacts. You may not like how some present themselves, and yes, some people are rude, but understand that THEY too have issues and thoughts inside them, maybe not thinking with a clear head, or had a real bad day...They read something on here and it sets them off so they react to it.

 

If someone walked into a room full of strangers, and announced openly they were having an affair, or an OW/OM said they were the affair partner, what type of reaction would you expect to have by those strangers? I would assume most would not be pleased and show their reaction, whether it be coming off as judgemental or just saying outloud "what you are doing is wrong" or by their body language. I know words have a way of jumping off the screen and come across quite harshly at times...

 

I completely understand what you are saying and agree with you. The world is harsh when you are doing something wrong. I guess I like to look at a forum like this as a place to share your thoughts and recieve advice from those who take the time to actually listen. Perhaps that is a bit idealistic, but I don't think it completely impossible.

 

People are going to disagree. I think we just need to be careful about what we let others get away with. There are those that think the Om/OW here don't deserve to be treated with respect. I just want to make sure that there are those here that are willing to listen and understand.

 

To be honest ........ all those that feel condeming and calling the posters idiots and whatever else, might want to stop and think that that is perhaps not the best approach. You catch more flies with honey. I know there are many including you that seem to understand that.

[Trimmer]

I think you have let your experinece with other threads taint your view of this one. No one is being judged here. The whole point is that we shouldn't be judging each other.

The way we live together in a society is we have standards of different kinds - family, community, legal... And one of the ways we communicate those standards is in discussing our "judgements" about what behavior is right or wrong. Our community standards here stress civility, and say "It is important that criticism be directed at what is stated in a post ("I don't like your idea") rather than at the individual making the statement ("I don't like you")."

 

But this sounds more like we should be careful to focus our discussions on behaviors and ideas, and avoid making personal attacks. I don't see how this translates to "only be supportive..." I think we are too quick to shy away from the word "judge". As long as we apply it to behaviors and ideas, it's not inherently a bad thing.

 

So, in the interest of bringing this back to a discussion of behaviors and ideas, instead of individuals (whatever their moniker: BS, OM, OW, MM...) annabelle, how do you feel about NoIDidnt's assertion that, regardless of how you assign the blame, "Its the EMRelationship that takes away from the M and related relations."

[annabelle75]

So, in the interest of bringing this back to a discussion of behaviors and ideas, instead of individuals (whatever their moniker: BS, OM, OW, MM...) annabelle, how do you feel about NoIDidnt's assertion that, regardless of how you assign the blame, "Its the EMRelationship that takes away from the M and related relations."

 

From my personal experince, the core of the marriage had died long before the EMR. The EMR was a symptom of a marrige that was already dying. Do I condone the actions of the other women that slept with my husband because he was the one that betrayed me? No. What they did was wrong. Do I blame them for the collaspe of my marriage? No. They were just a convenient escape.

[NoIDidn't]

The whole point is that we shouldn't be judging each other.

 

That's a judgment, believe it or not. Like WWIU said, we do it everyday.

 

You have judged people on this board negatively, which automatically casts a positive light on the other - making them someones victims. You have accused the judges of not actually listening - another negative judgment.

 

Like I said, nothing positive comes out of these threads. It will only paint you into a corner that you might not want to be in.

[whichwayisup]

Your husband CHOSE to cheat, instead of talking to you and fixing the marriage. The OW knew he was married, yet chose to allow herself to fall into an affair with your H. THAT is wrong. Wrong of him and wrong of her.

 

Now, apply that logic into helping an OW/OM (and it does happen alot) who are about to get involved with a MM/MW. I for one, will say alot to try to open their eyes so they don't make a huge mistake, hurt themselves, help hurt innocent people, children, ruin lives...A person that helps another cheat has to be accountable and responsible for their actions. Some of my advice is harsh, I'm not going to hold hands and coddle someone who is about to make an awful mistake that will be devastating to many.

[NoIDidn't]

From my personal experince, the core of the marriage had died long before the EMR. The EMR was a symptom of a marrige that was already dying. Do I condone the actions of the other women that slept with my husband because he was the one that betrayed me? No. What they did was wrong. Do I blame them for the collaspe of my marriage? No. They were just a convenient escape.

 

You are speaking from personal experience for yourself. Are you saying that because it happened this way in your M that it must be the same for other M's that deal with infidelity? Are you sidestepping the question? It wasn't about the death of a M. It was whether or not you felt that the EMR took time from the M and other people in relation to the person in the EMR.

 

A woman only says that her M is dead when she no longer feels connected emotionally to her spouse. And if her spouse is cheating, its because he has disconnected from her and connected to another. An active EMR will excelerate the lost feelings and emotional connection.

 

My M was far from dead. It wasn't even dying. It was coasting. There is danger in coasting. It causes us to neglect the one we promised to cherish ( and here I am speaking of my H). His EMR took lots of time from his R with me. He didn't talk on the phone with me anymore. He was short with me and the kids. He was just plain surly and distant most of the time immediately before and during. His EMR affected my family most negatively whether I knew what was going on or not.

[NoIDidn't]

From my personal experince, the core of the marriage had died long before the EMR. The EMR was a symptom of a marrige that was already dying.

 

I have another question re: the above quote.

 

Do you blame yourself for the state of the M that you imply led to his infidelity? Or do you blame him? Or do you just blame the *institution* of M?

 

Were you neglecting him? Was he neglecting you? Did M just suck the life out of you?

 

I don't think that M can suck the life out of anyone. M is just a word that we have defined, IMO. The people IN the M can suck the life out of each other, though.

 

The reason I ask this is because you seem to be taking the stance that the OW were victims of your H in some sense. They were not, most likely. They were more than likely volunteers. An outside person makes a conscious decision to "see" a MP. I understand not blaming them, but it doesn't seem like you assign them any accountability for their part.

 

Is it because of what happened to you with your "almost" OW status? This is a serious question. Not snarky at all. I ask because I can see you feeling betrayed by him the minute he got what he wanted from his W and dumping you. But this guy was lying to you from jump. He wasn't even separated initially. But the most insulting part for me of your story was that when he was given permission to sleep with other women, he still dumped you. (rhetorical question: what was THAT about?)

 

Just curious. is all.

[norajane]

From my personal experince, the core of the marriage had died long before the EMR. The EMR was a symptom of a marrige that was already dying. Do I condone the actions of the other women that slept with my husband because he was the one that betrayed me? No. What they did was wrong. Do I blame them for the collaspe of my marriage? No. They were just a convenient escape.

 

That's not the case with every affair. In many, the WS has no intention of leaving the marriage because things are just fine, except that s/he wants a little piece on the side, too.

 

You cannot imagine that all affairs are like the one your H had and then extrapolate that into imagining that all those involved or affected are the same. For example, your marriage ended this way:

 

The way I chose to see it was any man that would cheat on me wasn't the right man for me and I was better off knowing now than 20 years from now.

Now consider the WS who cheats at some point during those 20 years, or throughout, or at the end of the 20 years. Consider the BS who finds out only after 20 years and 3 kids. Surely you can see how the fallout from that situation would be different from yours? Surely you can see how the advice given to an OW involved for 5 years with a man who's been married 20 years might be a little closer toward the 'get the f*ck out' end of the spectrum?

[Tomcat33]

If someone walked into a room full of strangers, and announced openly they were having an affair, or an OW/OM said they were the affair partner, what type of reaction would you expect to have by those strangers? .

 

That depends on who makes up that room, it's valid to define what kind of people that room is comprised of. If it was a room filled wiht Ow/Om then I think the reaction might be not as negative as society as a whole might expect.

 

Anabelle I have been following this thread and share your views, I commend you for standing up for the purpose of this forum.

 

This forum is for OW/Om and the people who come here looking for words of comfort, looking to voice their thoughts or simply to bounce off their experiences are coming here looking to fit in somehow, looking to feel less lonely in an experience that often time ailienates and yes I DARE SAY victimises a lot of the people who novicely get involved in relationships that are wrong from the get-go. I don't think they come here to be outcasted and reminded of all their mistakes. If that were the case people would go to betrayedspouces.com and post their experiences there.

 

In fact at the point that people usually turn to this forum it appears it would be the person's lowest point, the most vulnerable of states. I think that gets lost out of sight sometimes when giving all this "tough love"that is spread around with so much passion.

 

Some people call it tough lough, I would call it crtical hate...tomato tomato (ok the expression doesn't quite work if written lol)

 

Speaking of marriages and when the A happens I would also agree that in a lot of cases the rel is in dire need of reconstrurction in order for there to be room for a full blown emotional or A to happen. It's rare that it happens to marriages that are in good standing, unless of course one of the spouces are serial cheaters or suffer from extremely low self esteem and they have destructive tendencies then that's a whole different animal.

[Island Girl]

As in the other forums at this site I thought that this one would be a place for OM and OW that are struggling could come and voice their problems to get support and advice.

 

 

What kind of support or advice would you suggest?

 

Advice as in how one could create scenarios to spend more time with someone else's spouse or how to become "okay" with being secondary on holidays, birthdays, etc.?

 

Support as in placating someone who is getting less than they really deserve by staying in a relationship that does not fulfill their needs?

 

How to maintain a relationship that by it's very nature is destructive to one or (usually) both parties on each side of the equation?

 

It is no small percentage of people involved in this type of relationship coming to a point where they (as one poster stated) "feel dead inside".

 

If I witness someone destroying their life by doing drugs -- which is by making choices that, although they feel good at the time, are self destructive and hurtful -- I will stop them by any means necessary. Whether that is a frank discussion or tough love, etc. If something gets through, however it does (and it is different for everybody), then so be it.

 

Affairs can be just as damaging. People suffer in these relationships. The suffering is not limited to the BS and OW/OM, careers suffer, families are destroyed, etc. Some people become so despondent they are suicidal. Whatever gets through to them, whether it is another OW, a BS, etc. and however that message it is stated is what is important. Again, it is different for everybody.

 

 

If it was a room filled wiht Ow/Om then I think the reaction might be not as negative as society as a whole might expect.

 

I beg to differ.

 

The negativity in such a room would certainly depend on what stage of the affair those OW/OM were in. -- The "honeymoon phase" (ironic isn't it?) would certainly be less negative.

 

But if they were a bit further down the path and had already started to suffer anguish and loneliness, or at the end when they had to walk away heart broken or worse, were thrown away without a second thought, the reaction in that room may be more vehement and responses more passionate than you usually see here.

 

Ever talk to someone who was talked into a time share and felt it was a mistake? Just the mention of it or a blip on TV about it gets a rant like you wouldn't believe.

 

And that's just money.

 

Imagine if someone had their heart ripped out in such a way that they had wounds that not only changed them as a person but always remained just a little bit raw. Now imagine speaking to them about whether or not it is a good idea to start or maintain an affair. What kind of a response do you really think you'd get?

[Tomcat33]

What kind of support or advice would you suggest?

 

I beg to differ.

 

The negativity in such a room would certainly depend on what stage of the affair those OW/OM were in. -- The "honeymoon phase" (ironic isn't it?) would certainly be less negative.

 

But if they were a bit further down the path and had already started to suffer anguish and loneliness, or at the end when they had to walk away heart broken or worse, were thrown away without a second thought, the reaction in that room may be more vehement and responses more passionate than you usually see here.

 

Ever talk to someone who was talked into a time share and felt it was a mistake? Just the mention of it or a blip on TV about it gets a rant like you wouldn't believe.

 

And that's just money.

 

Imagine if someone had their heart ripped out in such a way that they had wounds that not only changed them as a person but always remained just a little bit raw. Now imagine speaking to them about whether or not it is a good idea to start or maintain an affair. What kind of a response do you really think you'd get?

 

I get what you're saying but to me it's irrelevant at what stage in the game the person is (the person giving advice that is comperable to the example I gave) I don't believe in this "tough love" bulls@#t , save the tough love for those you love and can interpret it as such. People come here for support, you can offer support without the mean overly critical comments (you as in the general "you" not YOU in particular IG). Maybe there is just a lot of resenttful people on LS. It's the nature of a public forum, I get it.

 

My heart's been trampled on I've been lied to disillusioned the whole bit, some may say I brought it on to myself whatever, I too was the victim in my man's web of endless lies and I know that to be true to me regardless of what may think. Yet I will never offer "tough love" but that's just me. What's the point of telling someone they are in the wrong, when they are well aware that they are and on top of it are in distress. Am I trying to help or am trying to vent out my own issues. that's the question some people should ask themselves before they post their so called "tough love" advice.

 

Hey but to each their own, that's just my view, and let me tell you when I came on here I came here in distress with my own situation to deal with. People offered me sound words that resonated and a lot of it sometimes I didn't necessarily want to hear but it was put in such a way that made sense that made me think. Then there were the "tough love" givers, I skimmed through those replies because at the end of the day, call me selfish but I came for support not to be kicked when I was already down. I hope to give back to those who seek support, in kind. And so going back to the original post of this thread I can see where she is coming from when she made the post.

[Cliche]

When I first came here in December, there seemed to be much more advice from current or former OM/OW and it seemed more supportive. I do notice now that there seems to be a majority of BS' giving advice now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the rounded perspective can be helpful. The problem seems to be, though, that many BS' have the same answer, which is get out now and he's a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for being with him so get some self-respect and go. I don't think that advice is helpful. First, because it is short-sighted as there are different types of relationships, affairs and marriages, and second, because, really, it is not very nice. I am sure BS' would not be pleased with advice like, your H or W is a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for condoning it by staying so why don't you have some self respect and divorce. Again, it is not advice, nor helpful, it is just emotion wrapped up to look a little bit like some assistance.

 

Anyway, I, for one, have compassion for every single person, married or not, on this forum because there's a lot of pain going around here. But then, I guess in all relationships, married or not, there is an element of surrender that may, depending on the other party, lead to pain. That's the chance you take in relationships...50/50 that it could end up as a lifetime of happiness or a pile of pain.

[Trialbyfire]

You're more than welcome to call my ex a lying, serial cheater who has no reason to be alive. Makes me feel better... :laugh:

 

As for dumping him, been there done that...for my own good...

[GreenEyedLady]

Cliche, I really like your post...You've made good observations and excellent points...

[Lizzie60]

It is soo easy to blame the OW/OM...and tell them how terrible they are, blablabla... but on the other hand.. we don't go in the other forums to tell the BS that maybe they are wrong and maybe the SO is having an affair because of them... etc

 

So, since there is always two side in each situation , we shouldn't 'judge' anyone.

 

My 2 bucks.

[Tomcat33]

Totally agree with CLICHE's post, well said.

 

In addition to that and my own point, exactly how objective and understanding can a BS really be? Don't get me wrong there are few on here that have been nothing but supportive and well meaning...but it can't be said for all...too much "tough love" that wreaks of resentment.

[Island Girl]

we don't go in the other forums to tell the BS that maybe they are wrong and maybe the SO is having an affair because of them...

 

You're right.

 

We don't tell the BS that "maybe it is your fault" because there is absolutely NO reason for cheating. The person can leave -- not be deceitful cheating liars. There is no excuse or reason for it. I don't care how "bad" the other person is. If a person is that unhappy then that person should LEAVE and get a divorce.

 

Lizzie you are a whole different animal.

 

You are not involved with a MM because you're in love or emotionally involved at all.

 

You sleep with MM, single men, whomever -- just for the hell of it.

You could be a free wheeling spirit sleeping with many, many men but abstaining as far as MM - but no. You're choice is to willingly and knowingly hurt others just for a few minutes of pleasure.

I have never and will never understand a person such as you who chooses so carelessly to hurt others (multiple others), families, etc. by their actions and quest for "fun" with absolutely no sense or remorse.

[hardcase]

That depends on who makes up that room, it's valid to define what kind of people that room is comprised of. If it was a room filled wiht Ow/Om then I think the reaction might be not as negative as society as a whole might expect.

 

Thats because sharks aren't surprised by other sharks.

 

Predators stick together.

[hardcase]

Don't get me wrong, I think the rounded perspective can be helpful. The problem seems to be, though, that many BS' have the same answer, which is get out now and he's a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for being with him so get some self-respect and go. I don't think that advice is helpful. First, because it is short-sighted as there are different types of relationships, affairs and marriages, and second, because, really, it is not very nice. I am sure BS' would not be pleased with advice like, your H or W is a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for condoning it by staying so why don't you have some self respect and divorce.

 

Uh...big difference here....the BS isn't the one that is willfully hurting other people.

 

Anyway, I, for one, have compassion for every single person, married or not, on this forum because there's a lot of pain going around here.

 

You have compassion for someone who is sleeping with someone elses spouse and doesn't care who they are hurting as long as they are getting their "needs" met?.....uh....ok...

 

That's the chance you take in relationships...50/50 that it could end up as a lifetime of happiness or a pile of pain.

 

Yup...thats the breaks...tough crap if we've been hurt....damn all of us are stupid....we should have known not to get married because of that 50/50 chance.

[annabelle75]

When I first came here in December, there seemed to be much more advice from current or former OM/OW and it seemed more supportive. I do notice now that there seems to be a majority of BS' giving advice now.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the rounded perspective can be helpful. The problem seems to be, though, that many BS' have the same answer, which is get out now and he's a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for being with him so get some self-respect and go. I don't think that advice is helpful. First, because it is short-sighted as there are different types of relationships, affairs and marriages, and second, because, really, it is not very nice. I am sure BS' would not be pleased with advice like, your H or W is a lying cheating cheater and you're not much better for condoning it by staying so why don't you have some self respect and divorce. Again, it is not advice, nor helpful, it is just emotion wrapped up to look a little bit like some assistance.

 

Anyway, I, for one, have compassion for every single person, married or not, on this forum because there's a lot of pain going around here. But then, I guess in all relationships, married or not, there is an element of surrender that may, depending on the other party, lead to pain. That's the chance you take in relationships...50/50 that it could end up as a lifetime of happiness or a pile of pain.

 

This is exactly what I meant in starting this thread. I'm not afraid to look at each individual situation with out a prejudice heart and understand what the people coming to this forum are dealing with. I think most of those posting here are at very low points and need honest advice from those who have been there or are just willing to really listen. I fear there are too many people that come here genuinely feelings that OM/OWs don't deserve compassion or understanding and to that I say, "Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone."

[Trialbyfire]

This is exactly what I meant in starting this thread. I'm not afraid to look at each individual situation with out a prejudice heart and understand what the people coming to this forum are dealing with. I think most of those posting here are at very low points and need honest advice from those who have been there or are just willing to really listen. I fear there are too many people that come here genuinely feelings that OM/OWs don't deserve compassion or understanding and to that I say, "Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone."

This is a public site. This forum is a public forum. Advice or comments will come from all sources. I guarantee that you will not find me condoning an affair and you will also hear my opinions as well.

[Trimmer]

... but on the other hand.. we don't go in the other forums to tell the BS that maybe they are wrong and maybe the SO is having an affair because of them... etc

Actually, you might be surprised how often that very subject comes up on the infidelity forum, and how often a BS is led to the realization that he/she has a responsibility for the state of the marriage that may have created the conditions for an affair to occur. Not for the choices that lead to the affair itself, but for the state of the marriage.

 

Question: I'm involved in a discussion in another forum where a woman knowingly deceived someone she considered a friend, hoped to use that deception to get some skilled work from that friend, mocked the friend behind her back, and now that she has dropped the friend from the group she had hoped to join (which was the plan all along, and thus the deception), she wants to know how to continue the friendship.

 

Since this is a "support" forum, should I:

(a) support her, listen sympathetically, and stroke her ego and tell her it's OK;

(b) stay out of it, since in the categories of SF's and IF's (superior friends and inferior friends), I am not an SF so I'm not really qualified; I haven't "been there" in her shoes;

© attempt to point out that she hasn't been a very good friend, in the hopes that taking an honest look at her behavior will prompt a desire to make changes, and support those changes, if not her current behavior.

[Tomcat33]

Question: I'm involved in a discussion in another forum where a woman knowingly deceived someone she considered a friend, hoped to use that deception to get some skilled work from that friend, mocked the friend behind her back, and now that she has dropped the friend from the group she had hoped to join (which was the plan all along, and thus the deception), she wants to know how to continue the friendship.

 

Since this is a "support" forum, should I:

(a) support her, listen sympathetically, and stroke her ego and tell her it's OK;

(b) stay out of it, since in the categories of SF's and IF's (superior friends and inferior friends), I am not an SF so I'm not really qualified; I haven't "been there" in her shoes;

© attempt to point out that she hasn't been a very good friend, in the hopes that taking an honest look at her behavior will prompt a desire to make changes, and support those changes, if not her current behavior.

 

ANSWER:

 

 

You may not post or transmit any message which is harmful, threatening, abusive or hateful. It is not the Service's intent to discourage you from taking controversial positions or expressing vigorously what may be unpopular views; however, LoveShack.org reserves the right to take such action as it deems appropriate in cases where the Service is used to disseminate statements which are deeply and widely offensive and/or harmful

 

Taken straight out of the Terms of Use section of the website in case you don't understand what support is vs, hurling hateful messages.

 

 

Trimmer: I think you know the answer to your question so don't play coy.