by purpose of the OM and W forum

[Cliche]

Yup...thats the breaks...tough crap if we've been hurt....damn all of us are stupid....we should have known not to get married because of that 50/50 chance.

That's one to look at it, Hardcase. Another is to accept that there is no such thing as permanence and decide that, "cliche" as it is, it is better to have love and lost than not love at all. Nothing is a failure if we learn from it.

 

My marriage was hellishly painful for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with infidelity (I often wished he would have cheated thinking it would have been easier for me to leave then). I could have taken that opportunity to fill myself with anger (I had some, it was motivating, then I let most of it go) and bitterness, or I could have taken the opportunity to learn something about myself and try to grow. I think I chose the latter. I am doing it again, btw, in my current relationship. I may get hurt because he doesn't leave his wife. I may get hurt after he leaves his wife. Who knows?

 

As far as the BS being the "innocent" one...in some cases, yes. In some, no. But either way, once the affair is discovered, the BS is in the same boat as anyone else finding themselves in a troublesome relationship. Once the A is discovered, there are no more victims and each individual is then fully responsible for taking charge of their own lives however they see fit to do it. That may include working on the relationship, may include ending it, and should always include working on the self. In this experience, we are all alike.

 

Hardcase, it is you who chooses to drive a wedge between you and me. I, however, do and will always feel deep compassion for you, for me, for everyone on this site. No one needs to accept my concern for me to give it. And you are so obviously in pain and I am sorry. Please try not to let your wife destroy you. She's just not worth it. No one is. (((hugs)))

[greengoddess]

As far as the BS being the "innocent" one...in some cases, yes. In some, no. But either way, once the affair is discovered, the BS is in the same boat as anyone else finding themselves in a troublesome relationship. Once the A is discovered, there are no more victims and each individual is then fully responsible for taking charge of their own lives however they see fit to do it. That may include working on the relationship, may include ending it, and should always include working on the self. In this experience, we are all alike.

 

 

 

ah but how many times have we heard the lies? How many times have the ow's come on here and said the mm has lied to his wife when caught and she is to cover for him? They continue to lie cheat and sneak around living their little secret life. Honesty would change everything and the mm and ow normally do not have the courage to try honesty. The wife or husband of the cheater continue to be a "vicitm" because of the dishonesty of the relationship. how many other woman have said that once the wife cools down and thinks all is fine they will be right back in thier mm's arms? How disgusting is that thinking?

 

I won't even comment to lizzie. I think she belongs on a different working woman's forum. I do not think she represents most ow's.

[Cliche]

ah but how many times have we heard the lies? How many times have the ow's come on here and said the mm has lied to his wife when caught and she is to cover for him? They continue to lie cheat and sneak around living their little secret life. Honesty would change everything and the mm and ow normally do not have the courage to try honesty. The wife or husband of the cheater continue to be a "vicitm" because of the dishonesty of the relationship. how many other woman have said that once the wife cools down and thinks all is fine they will be right back in thier mm's arms? How disgusting is that thinking?

 

Very disgusting. I agree.

 

But even in a marriage, one party cannot base their happiness on the other person. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, once it is discovered that one's spouse, partner, friend (this applies in ANY relationship) is willing to lie about something so significant, the responsibility is on the lied to person to figure out what s/he can live with and what steps it takes to get there. I guess I don't see much change coming from just making party B promise to change or tracking party B's every move. Party A has to set his/her own limits and enforce them. KWIM? Talk is cheap. I think that, even when dealing with a deceitful partner, a relationship can work IF a plan on rehabilitation of it is defined and bilaterally agreed upon and then kept up with.

 

Ah hell, I don't want to seem like I'm giving advice since I am the LAST person on here who should be doing that. I was just trying to explain what I meant, is all. That it is my perspective---that no one else has to agree with---that we are all more similar than different. So that is why I'm going to be concerned with all of us and just try to be kind.

[herenow]

I have many times found myself getting involved in threads like this one and I realize that it's a waste of time for me. I do have one question for the OP. What is your intent on starting this thread?

 

Sorry if this has already been asked. I don't have time to read all the posts.

[hardcase]

That's one to look at it, Hardcase. Another is to accept that there is no such thing as permanence and decide that, "cliche" as it is, it is better to have love and lost than not love at all.

 

I don't think it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.

 

I would have been quite happy never loving if I had known ahead of time.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

If I witness someone destroying their life by doing drugs -- which is by making choices that, although they feel good at the time, are self destructive and hurtful -- I will stop them by any means necessary. Whether that is a frank discussion or tough love, etc. If something gets through, however it does (and it is different for everybody), then so be it.

 

Island Girl,

 

This is a brilliant analogy. Maybe it rang true with me mostly because I worked in an inpatient drug and alcohol rehab for some time. I was having this hysterical flashback, imagining one of those group sessions, unsupervised, that was only about empathizing and sharing ideas on how to sneak booze into church, ect... The truth is though that the cycle of self destruction is identical to all parties involved. Consider the MM the alcoholic, struggling with something that makes him feel good and helps him cope, battling himself over what he knows is wrong and further indulging in the activity to escape himself but blaming his misery on others. Consider the wife and family of the MM as that of the alcoholic and you have the identical situation within them. People going to great lenghts and suffering in an attempt to save the alcoholic from himself and get back some control. The OW I guess would be the party friends who don't want to be abandoned by their buddy or be reminded about their own tendancies to over indulge for the sake of feeling good. I know in rehab, friends who were users had to be dumped completely as they were the major stumbling block. Giving up these friends was like cutting off an arm but was actually the ONLY chance for the user to recover from the addiction. The life of lies and manipultion is the addiction, recovery in this case becomes about taking responsibility for their decisions by making a personal choice and accepting the consequences of that decision.

 

There do exist OW boards that ARE private forums. I'm sure they serve their purpose, but I have never known a pity party to contibute to any constructive evolvement. Though I completely understand the importance of knowing you are not alone in a situation. You could furthur have a room for OW where only positive comments are allowed to be made. How boring would that be! People would tire of it quickly. You can certainlly see as much of a difference in the posts of OW in different stages of the A as you can in the advice from BS's on the infidelity forum. You have the ones who have reached deep and given their marriage a second chance and succeeded, the ones who have tried and failed, the ones who threw up there hands and screamed, "I quit". All of their opinions add to the content and tone of the thread. No disclaimers that say please don't respond unless you are going to tell me exactly what I want to hear. I know you will find few posts from me on BS's threads right after D day, I read their threads and bile rises up in my throat as I feel their pain, but how can I tell them that they just been pushed through the gates of their own personal hell by no choice of their own and which ever road they choose, its a long haul to the exit on the other side, no amount of knowing what's ahead is going to make that trip any easier. Nothing to say but I'm so sorry. A little later in that journey, I can offer help and advice and some constructive support, but it's moot at this stage.

 

I don't know, if you want a board that is only for OW, then see if the Mods will change it. If not I agree with TBF, its an open forum so its kind of like whining because those damn republicans keep writing letters to the editor of a cheifly democratic puablication and voicing their damned opinions which no decent liberal cares to hear. Far easier to ingore those columns unless you're just looking for something to complain about. I do believe though that when you exclude yourself from any subjection that doesn't completely agree with your own line of thinking at the moment then you are stifling your own potential for growth.

[JustBecause]

Some of the lampooning of ow here is similar to the other site I've been to. We should have more morals than that as adults.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

You consider lampooning immoral??? It might be unpleasant to some but in a society where freedom of the press and expression are revered inalienable righst I can't see how you consider it immoral. Besides, surely there are worse things one could do than lampooning. Doesn't make lampooners bad people.

[greengoddess]

You consider lampooning immoral??? It might be unpleasant to some but in a society where freedom of the press and expression are revered inalienable righst I can't see how you consider it immoral. Besides, surely there are worse things one could do than lampooning. Doesn't make lampooners bad people.

 

 

LOL don't even bother. She came on this website with a made up horrible story and ended the story with posts from the so called lampooning site whatever that is. She is under the bridge and stirring up trouble and trying to bring attention to the lampponing site.

[JustBecause]

I am no longer an OW nor am I lampooning anyone.

[JustBecause]

LOL don't even bother. She came on this website with a made up horrible story and ended the story with posts from the so called lampooning site whatever that is. She is under the bridge and stirring up trouble and trying to bring attention to the lampponing site.

 

Ummm, Nice try but not even close.

[greengoddess]

I am no longer an OW nor am I lampooning anyone.

 

 

Hahaha was that before you tried to send his wife to the loony bin, before you told him you were pregnant, or lets see after she pushed you down an escalator or after you aborted your lovechild?

[JustBecause]

Hahaha was that before you tried to send his wife to the loony bin, before you told him you were pregnant, or lets see after she pushed you down an escalator or after you aborted your lovechild?

 

Right after all of the above:rolleyes:

[hardcase]

I am no longer an OW nor am I lampooning anyone.

 

No, but you did lampoon a spouse and probably kids...you just didn't do it in writing.

[hardcase]

Hahaha was that before you tried to send his wife to the loony bin, before you told him you were pregnant, or lets see after she pushed you down an escalator or after you aborted your lovechild?

 

BUSTED!!!!!!!!!

[Trialbyfire]

I don't think it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.

 

I would have been quite happy never loving if I had known ahead of time.

Exactly. Some experiences are not worthwhile. What in the world could you attribute to good, after the experience of betrayal? Wow, I learned not to invest fully or trust a partner. The next relationship will be less investment for no good reason beyond a knife in the back or knives in my case.

 

I honestly wish I were still naive. The more love you put into a relationship, the more you get out of it. The other party doesn't necessarily have to return it all, it's the intensity of emotion that's your payback. Not healthy you say? b/s...

[JustBecause]

For your info, I have paid for my mistakes & I don't need you two adding to the mix.

You both are just down right rotten to the core people.

[vanilla chai]

Thats because the BS was hurt...they were the betrayed.

 

OW/OM that know their partner is married and just doesn't care is completely different.

 

Big difference.

 

ITA, also not everyone that posts is a bw.

[vanilla chai]

Wrong...the OM/OW coupled with the lousy cheating MM/MW is taking time that should be spent with the family. So yes..indirectly it is hurting them and changing the dynamics of how the MM/MW interact with their families

 

 

Hardcase the ow/om will never see it,they all claim they have no responsibility.

 

The sense of entitlement some ow/om have is astounding.

[Cliche]

Hardcase the ow/om will never see it,they all claim they have no responsibility.

 

The sense of entitlement some ow/om have is astounding.

Oh c'mon. Some spouses, betrayed or not, act like marriage includes a right of possession.

 

Look, I don't think OW/OM should be proud of what they are doing. I'm not. But I also don't see many who are actually villians. If a man or woman says their marriage is all over but the stamp from the judge in family court, I fail to see how getting involved with someone under those circumstances makes a person as evil as some seem to claim. I still contend if there is blame to lay, it goes at the feet of the person who chooses not to uphold their own marriage vows. OM/OW made promises to no one, so they're not breaking them.

 

And I'm starting to get the impression I'm talking to a wall here so I think I'll bow out.

[hardcase]

For your info, I have paid for my mistakes & I don't need you two adding to the mix.

You both are just down right rotten to the core people.

 

No, if you cheated...that would be you.

[hardcase]

Oh c'mon. Some spouses, betrayed or not, act like marriage includes a right of possession.

 

So the wife/husband should share their spouse with the OM/OW I guess?

 

Look, I don't think OW/OM should be proud of what they are doing. I'm not. But I also don't see many who are actually villians. If a man or woman says their marriage is all over but the stamp from the judge in family court, I fail to see how getting involved with someone under those circumstances makes a person as evil as some seem to claim.

 

You are correct...but that is not the type of circumstance we are talking about. I am talking about the MM/MW who cheats...has no intention of leaving their spouse, but the OM/OW gladly beds down their H or W.

You are talking apples and orange here.

 

I still contend if there is blame to lay, it goes at the feet of the person who chooses not to uphold their own marriage vows. OM/OW made promises to no one, so they're not breaking them.

 

Great...then its perfectly ok if someone sleeps with your husband then.

[VinaAmez]

Oh c'mon. Some spouses, betrayed or not, act like marriage includes a right of possession.

 

I'll remember that when your cheated on.

[Trialbyfire]

Oh c'mon. Some spouses, betrayed or not, act like marriage includes a right of possession.

Nope, no one owns anyone but they have a right to expect and demand fidelity and they also have the right to expect that others will honour their relationship by not poaching or interfering in it.

[vanilla chai]

Nope, no one owns anyone but they have a right to expect and demand fidelity and they also have the right to expect that others will honour their relationship by not poaching or interfering in it.

 

You took the words right out my mouth.