One week before separation

[disgracian]

Therefore, stealing a woman will only affect relationships that are meant to be doomed anyway. All you do is to accelerate the process, to shortcut the pain for the man. The betrayal will happen anyway, better sooner than later for the poor guy.

That presumes, quite wrongly, that relationships suffer a linear deterioration. Advocating such an utterly stupid and vindictive course of action may only serve to tip the balance during bad times. I don't think you've really thought about what you're saying here at all.

Then, it is important to dump the woman you just stole from him. You don’t do this for your own selfish pleasure

Who are you trying to fool with this? Yourself perhaps? That's entirely what this is about: self-indulgent, self-righteous and misplaced revenge on all women just because one screwed you around. Men are just as statistically likely to stray and inflict the same emotional damage on their wives, so this little diatribe is pretty much meaningless.

 

I take no pleasure from being this blunt, but somebody needs to give you a metaphorical slap across the face to wake you up. You are proceeding down a dangerous path here. You would be wise to stop, rethink your position once you have calmed down a bit, and realise that women everywhere are not evil just because you got burned. You're not the centre of the universe.

 

Take a break and work through your issues.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

That presumes, quite wrongly, that relationships suffer a linear deterioration. Advocating such an utterly stupid and vindictive course of action may only serve to tip the balance during bad times. I don't think you've really thought about what you're saying here at all.

 

A woman who betrays her husband during bad times is no better than a woman who betrays him during good times. Betrayal is betrayal. Bad times are no excuse to betray your husband. As a husband, would you like to be with a woman ready to cheat on you during a temporary down time in the relationship? By revealing the kind of woman he is with, you can only open his eyes.

 

That's entirely what this is about: self-indulgent, self-righteous and misplaced revenge on all women just because one screwed you around.

 

Revenge is not the motivation, the return to authenticity is.

Nobody is forcing the woman to cheat on her husband, she does it purposefully.

 

Men are just as statistically likely to stray and inflict the same emotional damage on their wives, so this little diatribe is pretty much meaningless.

 

If what you say is true, then it works both ways. However, it seems that betrayal happens more often to men from what I read on LS.

 

I take no pleasure from being this blunt, but somebody needs to give you a metaphorical slap across the face to wake you up.

 

I feel very awake. But if you think I am confused, please wake me up.

 

You are proceeding down a dangerous path here.

 

I don’t see what is dangerous here. Maybe the boyfriend/husband may want to hurt me, then he puts himself subject to jail and has proven to be not a good match for a marriage anyway.

 

You would be wise to stop, rethink your position once you have calmed down a bit,

 

I am calm.

 

and realise that women everywhere are not evil just because you got burned.

 

I don’t think all women are evil. I just think most of them do not appreciate what they have. That’s it

 

You're not the centre of the universe.

 

What made you think I am? I am the centre of MY universe, like you are the centre of yours.

[sumdude]

A sport you say? What a game to play with others lives ... for the moiment I'll assume this is a bit tongue in cheek. However if you're serious it sure is a cold and calculating way to live and you would earn your moniker....

 

I think there may be more men on LS because we're less likely to have a full support group in our lives than women. To have anonimity when exposing our fears .... Just a guy thing

[disgracian]

I thought about responding differently and in more detail, but I don't think I have any chance of reasoning with you in you current state. You're just too inconsistent and too determined to justify your anger. Instead I'll continue to confront it head on.

Revenge is not the motivation

Then why target women specifically right after an acrimonious separation? What about all the men who get a woman pregnant, then run away like the cowards they are and leave her to raise the child on her own along with the stigma of being a single parent? Where do they fit into your scenario where only women are to blame?

 

Right now, you're either subconsciously or deliberately concocting a fantasy world to deal with your emotional baggage. Most people are understandably angry and bitter after what you've been through, but advocating bigamy and punishing women as sport as you are doing is taking it a bit too far.

 

While you're busy rationalising, it's plain as daylight to anybody that you're extremely hurt and lashing out clumsily against an entire gender, just because of what one woman did to you.

 

Later on, once you have some distance, you'll hopefully see all this as the sort of stuff that should have been confined to angsty poetry and self-righteous rants in a private diary. Until then, you'll probably remain convinced of the righteousness of ruining other peoples' lives for 'sport', and nobody will be able to help you.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

If revenge was the motivation, I would have gotten my revenge against my stbxw. Truth is I deeply care for her and I wish her the very best, even though I don’t want her in my life anymore.

 

I agree women are not the only ones to blame; I said it works both ways in my previous post. I would support the women seducers who steal the husband from a marriage if she dumps him afterwards to teach him a lesson. I don’t mind a woman having a harem of men as long as the men know it. Also I don’t mind another man stealing any women from me, because it meant she was not really into me and I should be glad to be free of the delusion of a happy relationship.

 

Cold and calculating? The betrayer is cold. The woman who remains in marriage because of money is calculating.

 

It seems like you ruin other’s people life in the short run, but what kind of life was it any way, being with a flakey partner without knowing it. They are better off in the long run.

 

If you would point me the inconsistencies, I will either try to explain or see your point.

[azianpride143]

I agree with NS on this. But to some degree. I am not the type of person who would want to rip away women from a commited relationship. There are plenty of fish in the sea. I just don't want to deal with karma later on. I would rather take the high road and find someone else. I don't think it's noble to think that by hurting them it will help them in the end. They should learn this on their own. Yes at some point when they start looking around they will leave the relationship. It all depends on the person. It is their choice, it is their life. This goes for both sexes. There's a difference between window shopping and actually buying the product. I agree a lot of men and women do not value what they have until it is too late. Most individuals are only there for the good times and don't want to deal with the bad times. They simply quit. This is the cycle of their life. They are meant to go through life like this until they realize what they have done and accept change. Why would we even care. These are the kind of people you want to stay away from. Because they just don't hurt themselves, but the people around them as well.

 

The heightened awareness allows us to see past the personalities of people we encounter and allow us to read them like books. Why even waste time with women who don't even meet your criteria. That doesn't mean I treat women like they are trash. I am simply a lot wiser and smarter this time around. I just don't beat around the bush and play childish games.

 

The way I see it. When the right person comes, I'll see if I am still the marrying type. For now I have no intentions of marrying for a while. Marriage is too huge of a commitment to be taken lightly. Just my .02 cents.

[disgracian]

I don't think it's noble to think that by hurting them it will help them in the end. They should learn this on their own.

That's the key phrase in all of this. By convincing himself that he's helping people by hurting them, then he no longer has to examine his own motivations or conscience.

 

Think of all the acts required in systematically "stealing" and then dumping as many partners as he can to "teach them a lesson": manipulation, inflated sense of self worth, superficial charm, pathological lying, lack of remorse, lack of empathy, promiscuity, failure to accept responsibility for one's actions... It borders on sociopathy, as you will see if you look up the trademark characteristics.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Melovator]

Most individuals are only there for the good times and don't want to deal with the bad times. They simply quit. This is the cycle of their life. They are meant to go through life like this until they realize what they have done and accept change. Why would we even care. These are the kind of people you want to stay away from. Because they just don't hurt themselves, but the people around them as well.

 

Life is a cycle and relationships follow that cycle too, birth, life, death, renewal, on and on. Some people just don't get that the hard times will happen, its not all hormones and sex on the dining room table, that things get hard and you have to work at it. We sow what we reap.

 

NS you moved up a state, seeing the games and the lies that people (not just women- both sexes play games, just different ones) play- but that's because children play games and you grew up. Don't slip back into childish behaviour now, because if you're playing games with someone you might be too busy to notice if they're playing games with you.

 

This line of thinking will lead to you being hurt as well as other people. If betrayers are going to betray let them earn that several lifetimes of karma all by themselves. Don't sell your dignity.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

NS, what you are experiencing right now is anger. I don't believe you will be capable of "stealing" a married woman from her husband and then "dumping" her.

 

But let's assume that you are going to proceed with this grand "sport" of yours. And what will you find out at the end? That ALL women are deceitful and calculating because she fell for you? Do you not see yourself worthy of love, then?

 

I hope you seek counseling to get over your grief. YOur ex was a bad apple, but your "sport" is not the way to expose these women to their "poor" husbands.

[notspiritual]

I am not the type of person who would want to rip away women from a commited relationship.

A good woman would never leave her husband under any circumstances.

 

They should learn this on their own.

The longer the unappreciative woman waits to leave, the stronger the pain for both of them.

 

I don't believe you will be capable of "stealing" a married woman from her husband and then "dumping" her.

If they are both better off in the long run – it is worth it.

 

Do you not see yourself worthy of love, then?

This is an irrelevant question as I don’t feel the need to receive any love from anyone. I have put aside my selfish needs. I also have enough love for myself to keep going. All I feel is the need to give love. So a better question would be, is there someone worthy of my love? I think most women are not worth the investment in the long run. That’s why MLTR is preferable.

 

I hope you seek counseling to get over your grief.

My grief is the most beautiful thing that happened to me. I prefer this to the delusion of a hopeless relationship. Why seek counseling? I have never felt more alive in my life. I used to sleep 9h a day, now I cannot sleep more than 7h, even on week-end. I am impatient to wake up as every day is like a new exciting adventure. I enjoy my life like never before.

[disgracian]

I think we're all going to run into the brick wall of "I'm doing them a favour" for the time being, so there's not much use in trying to talk NS down from where he is right now.

 

As willing as he is to blame a cheating woman, he can't (or, perhaps more accurately, won't) grasp the fact that his participation in this silly "sport" makes him equally reprehensible, since he is an equal partner in crime, so to speak.

Why seek counseling?

Because, as I have pointed out, you are advocating sociopathic behaviour as though it was a good thing. You clearly need something.

So a better question would be, is there someone worthy of my love?

Might want to come down off that pedestal sometime. From the attitude you've displayed, you're no prize catch yourself.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

you are advocating sociopathic behaviour

 

I do not advocate anything illegal. I believe society would be better off if there were more “liquidity” in the relationship market. Allowing unappreciative wife to leave sooner and freeing a good husband from a relationship he thought was sincere. Now, a good husband is again in the market and is available for a more deserving woman. See the good effects? It is not sociopahtic, it is good for society. The cheating woman will regret and be a better wife in the future. If she does not, she is also free from a relationship that did not work for her. So everyone is better off in the long run. To create this liquidity in the market, we need more seducers that steal and dump.

 

you're no prize catch yourself.

 

LOL. Every men should consider himself as the catch and not the other way around. From LS posts, the man is usually the giver, the provider and the one who cares about saving his marriage.

[disgracian]

Now, a good husband is again in the market and is available for a more deserving woman.

You mean he is now heartbroken and facing an impending divorce and costly settlement in the courts. If there are children, the situation is magnified enormously by custody battles on top of everything else. Then there is the emotional damage done to the children, and the effect that will have on their later lives.

 

You're deluding yourself to a frightening degree if you think this has helped anybody in any way.

See the good effects?

There aren't any to see. It's pretty obvious from your shallow 'analysis' that you haven't given this any serious thought at all. This is symptomatic of your current inability to think clearly, the cause of which is most likely emotional turmoil that you haven't properly dealt with yet.

 

I'm trying to view your situation sympathetically, because you have been through a lot. But you're making it harder and harder with each post...

So everyone is better off in the long run.

The only people who are better off are the lawyers.

Every men should consider himself as the catch and not the other way around. From LS posts, the man is usually the giver, the provider and the one who cares about saving his marriage.

Your misogyny is bubbling to the surface again. From this false assumption your warped ideas are proceeding. This is where you need to focus your efforts. I know it takes time and distance to heal the wounds, but (hopefully) you will eventually see the folly in tarring an entire gender with the same brush over the actions of one woman.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

You mean he is now heartbroken and facing an impending divorce and costly settlement in the courts.

This is the unavoidable pain that the man has to suffer for having an unappreciative wife. Better sooner than later. The longer this marriage lasts the more costly the settlement is and the more heartbroken the man will be.

 

If there are children, the situation is magnified enormously by custody battles on top of everything else. Then there is the emotional damage done to the children, and the effect that will have on their later lives.

Because a third party (children) is involved, stealer-dumpers should stay away from couples with children. However, I read many times on LS that you should not stay in an unhappy marriage just because of the children and that children are better off in the long run with divorced but happy parents than with unhappy parents.

 

You're deluding yourself to a frightening degree if you think this has helped anybody in any way.

I read many stories on LS where the man is much happier after he got rid of a cheating or unappreciative wife. The man usually ends up with a more deserving woman.

 

The only people who are better off are the lawyers.

I already mentioned the long term benefits for the couple, so I won't repeat myself. The longer we wait, the more costly the settlement and the better off are the lawyers.

 

Your misogyny is bubbling to the surface again.

There is nothing misogynistic for a man to consider himself to be the catch. In current society, most women think they are the catch and play games but in reality they don’t bring anything to the table. Also I don’t hate women, I recommend men to have a harem (MLTR) and not to confine themselves with just one woman who might end up breaking their heart.

[Melovator]

There is nothing misogynistic for a man to consider himself to be the catch. In current society, most women think they are the catch and play games but in reality they don’t bring anything to the table.

 

No- most women play games because they don't think they are a catch. They play games because they think they can't have a relationship and be themselves because no-one would want them. What kind of women are you looking at? They're pretty right?, great legs, nice tits, don't mind showing it either? Next time you're out move your gaze beyond beyond the neon pretty ones, so desperate for the light- take a look in the dark corners where the shy ones, the funny ones, and the smart "don't have time for games" girls sit, they are minding the handbags while the others dance. You keep looking at the show ponies and all you will see is a show. Look for the one's who aren't performing for the crowd or anyone but themselves.

[disgracian]

This is the unavoidable pain that the man has to suffer for having an unappreciative wife. Better sooner than later.

Without actively trying to ruin other peoples' lives, it might not happen at all. In that sense, it is not unavoidable in the slightest.

 

I guess as long as there are many stories on LS which you can selectively use to rationalise yourself, there's little point trying to reason with you. It's clear to everybody that you have an obvious grudge against women, since almost all of your rhetoric has been levelled against them, while men deserve better. You haven't presented any actual statistical evidence to back up anything, so right now it seems like all hot air inspired solely by bitterness and possibly even depression which you may be unaware that you're suffering.

 

I've no interest in repeatedly going around in circles any more, so I am going to get off the merry-go-round now. By all means have you final say if you feel so inclined. Despite my bluntness, I sincerely do wish you the best on your road to recovery.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

I don’t know why I have been initiating big changes in my life like trying to change job or to move to a new apartment. Now I prefer the status quo. I have already cancelled for the new apartment, I have decided to stay at the same place even if it is a bit expensive, I don’t have the motivation and the drive to move out.

 

As for the new job, I am very close to have it but nothing is for sure yet. I have many good memories here and I only start to enjoy NYC. I think I am afraid of change and rationalize that I am in a healing period as an excuse not to change. Would you quit a 150k job in NYC for a 200k job in California?

[disgracian]

If $150,000 isn't enough to accomodate your lifestyle, then you probably need to re-evaluate your priorities.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

My priority is to get rid of my huge student debts, save, invest and retire asap. Time is so precious but we waste it working at some boring jobs – I need to get out of the rat race asap before I become dead inside.

 

 

It was my biggest present to my wife, I wanted to give her all the free time in the world so she could be all that she wanted to be. I wanted to work very hard to be financially free before 45 to be able to enjoy the rest of my life with her. I really wanted the best for her.

[disgracian]

Is that what she wanted though, or is that what you assumed she wanted?

 

Cheers,

D.

[funkybassplayer]

I have just come out of a relationship, but one thing is that when 7 years ago i saw my dad dead on a slab it made me realise whats important. its not money or a boring job, its haveing your life and freedom, i dont blame you for wanting that. I left my day job 7 years ago to become a pro bassist, and i have never looked back. ok i have lost in relationships, and once again single, but im happy in myself................life is not for work, and at the end of the day we end up dead on a slab. I know we have to provide, but thats a chioce that we make when we get into relationships with kids. I did there were 3 kids, but now im on my own again, but my life is mine, not a bosses or anyone elses, and im not going to give it away or share it to anyone that does'nt deserve it!

[disgracian]

Life is about what you make it. As vague as that sounds, it's true because the only thing we have full control over is our minds. There's no reason why you can't be content or even happy while working.

 

Moreover, I think the "make as much money as I can as quickly as possible and retire early" mindset is dangerous. You risk plodding along with the carrot dangling in front of your head, always shifting the finish line further and further along, always wanting more and losing sight of your original goals as they either become too small to accomodate your ever-increasing expectations.

 

Cheers,

D.

[notspiritual]

I hate myself when I feel weak. I only let friends know about my separation. Colleagues don’t know, so I always have to act as if everything is fine when they ask about wife. They won’t stop asking these bastards. There is absolutely no advantage in telling them as anything I say could be used against me in the office. I hate myself because I almost told the truth, fortunately I could control myself.

 

I had some interesting perspectives from NYC women. They complain that is so difficult to find a man for marriage here in Manhattan. 1) Men are all jerks, all they want is a good time 2) There are more single women than bachelor men 3) 20% of men are gays.

 

I think men are starting to recognize that there is absolutely no advantage for them to get married.

[sumdude]

I hate myself when I feel weak. I only let friends know about my separation. Colleagues don’t know, so I always have to act as if everything is fine when they ask about wife. They won’t stop asking these bastards. There is absolutely no advantage in telling them as anything I say could be used against me in the office. I hate myself because I almost told the truth, fortunately I could control myself.

 

I had some interesting perspectives from NYC women. They complain that is so difficult to find a man for marriage here in Manhattan. 1) Men are all jerks, all they want is a good time 2) There are more single women than bachelor men 3) 20% of men are gays.

 

I think men are starting to recognize that there is absolutely no advantage for them to get married.

 

Must be a pretty cruddy place to work if you have to live in fear. How long do you expect to keep up the charade then? Indefinitely? Hating yourself is pretty rough self talk.... not a good way to think about yourself. To hate youself for being truthful ... well.... you should read your post and try to be objective about what you're saying...

 

hate... hate.... bastards..... jerks....

[notspiritual]

It is not about fear, it is about maximizing career potential. I don’t hate myself for being truthful; I hate myself for losing focus on achieving my goals.

 

It is indeed a crude place! As a European, I was amazed by the crudeness of Americans in the office, they swear in every sentence. I’ll need some self-control to not become like them.