do those that cheat really understand the pain they inflict?

[Flyin in Clouds]

This is why I feel that cheating should be cause for an immediate divorce. If my wife ever cheats I am throwing her out on the street and she knows that because it is such a huge betrayal of trust. Things are never the same after cheating.

 

I'd feel the same way Woggle. BUT... in reality, should I throw away my family too? Should I just forget the 30 years of marriage? Who gets to visit the kids and grandkids at xmas? Things would never be the same that is for sure.

[Wibble]

This is the crux of why my marriage is tuck in a time warp at Nov 2005, when her affair finally ended. My wife has been unable to either acknowledge or discuss her huge affair or the devastation that it has caused our relationship and family. Her stock response has been "It is ancient history, get over it." I think she is so overwhelmed by the enormity of what she has done, the humiliation she feels in the opinion of our friends, and the fact that she will never see herself as a "moral" person, that she has blocked it from her conciousness. Consequently my unresolved "issues" have festered and festered, leaving me feeling hollow and depressed. Our relationship has been unable to move on, because I feel that I have not received a genuine and sincere expression of true regret, nor has she engaged in an honest discussion about both what she did, and also why.

 

It has taken 18 months to get her to MC, whereupon some cracks in her facade began to show - her self esteem is at a rock bottom, and she feels she is a fundamentally "bad" person. The counsellor was so concerned that she recommended psychiatric therapy alongside the MC. I undoubtedly feel sorry for her, but her post-affair behaviour has been so difficult to live with that my emotional attachments to her (already weakened by 2 years of abuse during the affair) are probably not up to the job of keeping our marriage alive. My wife is not the woman I thought she was, and a lifetime together is not the enticing prospect it once was.

[Ruby Tuesday]

Wow, lots of good responses to this question. I espesially like what norajane, serial muse and stilltricks have said because it is totally right on.

 

I also agree that the only way a cheater learns is when it happens to them. Hey, thats how I learned. I didn't really know about cheating (except that it was wrong) until I was cheated on.

 

I come from a family where betrayal would never be tolerated. The only difference between me and my FWS is that my FWS will never know this pain because I dont have it in me to cheat. I dont need another person to validate me, not in that way. I can walk the line.

 

FWS was born into a family of cheaters, weak men on his fathers side and he knew the heart wrenching pain his father brought his mother and to him and his sister, and he freaking did it anyway.

 

Ironicly, the mother allowed FWS to do it too. I'll never understand any BS who condones affairs, or participates in one of their own. Cheating does not resolve cheating! It's sick! You would not believe how many times I have heard about his dad running off to Mexico with the OW and how much that hurt the family.

 

I know a FWS is hurting, but the FWS had all the good times, too. Don't ever forget that fact. The WS and the OP get the first kiss, and the falling in love feeling all over again, the hot sex, the presents, the attention, and not to mention the protection of each other, which is (sadly) something the BS never gets from their FWS, even after the affair ends.

 

So, the people involved in the affair cannot understand the damage they have done either. Such as the OW, the mother in law or the WS best friends who either encouraged or condoned the affair. It is very hard to accept my MIL into my home again, knowing how far she went to push the affair.

 

I will always be handicapped by my husbands 3 year (on again - off again) LTA. I will never have that blind trust, or that sense of security, or the conviction that I once had for my FWS before the affair. All he has to do is break NC and wreck me. One phone call and one hello away from the end of everything I gave to him. Seventeen years. For someone who is utterly and completely beneath me in character. I will pay the price for his betrayal, not him, not her. Just me, and me alone.

 

Thats the thin line I always have to walk on in order to save my family and myself. The WS/FWS dont have to walk any line. The OW only lives five minutes away. He doesn't even understand how gross it is to have to see his AP in my face every other day whenever I am out and about. I dont see him putting an end to that. It would be breaking NC he says. He doesnt know about her myspace page, and her faith hill songs and wearing her trophy leather coat "her" MM had bought for her. He doesnt have another guy mocking him and laughing at him. For him, there is no threat to his sanity or his life, so what's there to undestand?

 

Maybe if it had been over after d-day it would be alot easier for me to believe, but I have the unique situation where whenever we broke up, ususally due to some scheme the OW created to help break us up & to get him back, he would go back to her claiming he didnt think anyone else would want him. He knew giving her an engagement ring would hurt me. He knew I would never allow her near my children, but guess what? He didn't care! This is the same man who said I was the only person he ever loved.

 

He can deny that he didnt care, but I saw a lot of it with my own eyes. I know that if he has done it so many times before, he is quite capable of doing it again. So as far as I'm concerened, it isnt over until he hates her as much as I do. Then I'll know he's on my side. She believes he went back for the children. She still pines for him and who knows if he really still pines for her? Keeps her locked in so that he always has that security?

 

My life is a walking, talking cliche.

 

So, No... the answer to your question, a WS/FWS can never understand what it's like to be a BS, much less ever understand the pain they inflicted upon the BS. They compartmentalize that pain, too, just as they've learned to do in the affair. My FWS never had to stand on his own, never learned to live alone without a woman, or even do things for the kids when we were seperated, he had the OW do it all for him. He has never had to experience none of what I have. He didnt struggle. He didnt starve. He didn't learn.

[mrmaximum]

That was a hert wrenching post RT. Wow, got me thinking about my past and infidelity. I can't imagine a person who went through and saw their parents go through that and then cheat when they got older. Are you still with this guy?

[pricillia]

I think that in a cheating situation it is so complex(all the emotions)

 

There are so many different layers...

[hardcase]

Do you mean by telling my spouse? No, I wouldn't do that. He doesn't need to know. He doesn't need to feel anymore hurt then what he is going through now.

 

I don't remain silent. I confide in a very good friend. I'm the one experiencing the pain that goes along with it. I am separated since last summer. There is no need to tell my husband. Why hurt him more by telling. My affair ended. I'm putting it in the past and keeping it there where it belongs. It is my pain and suffering to deal with -- not my husband's.

 

If you already ended your marriage and he doesn't know...then no...you shouldn't tell him.

 

But if you were still married, he would then deserve to know.

[Flyin in Clouds]

... Her stock response has been "It is ancient history, get over it."....

Ok, you haven an affair, carry on as she did, then when it's over you can tell her It's just ancient history dear, get over it". ... Only then might see even begin to understand. But of course she'll never be able to understand if from a male perspective.

[silktricks]

I think that in a cheating situation it is so complex(all the emotions)

 

There are so many different layers...

 

Exactly what is this supposed to mean????

[rtHawk]

from a male perspective.

 

oh please do elaborate on what the "male" perspective to cheating is?

[norajane]

Ok, you haven an affair, carry on as she did, then when it's over you can tell her It's just ancient history dear, get over it". ... Only then might see even begin to understand. But of course she'll never be able to understand if from a male perspective.

 

What is the difference between male and female perspective on finding out your SO is cheating on you?

[Flyin in Clouds]

oh please do elaborate on what the "male" perspective to cheating is?

I have... in other places... but OK...

 

Female - wants to be her man's last. Male - wants to be his woman's first.

 

Women that cheat but then want to save the marriage tend to tell the man "just get over it. It was just sex. It was in the past. ".... The problem for the man is ---- it was sex... some other guy had his ... in there. ... that's hard to deal with.

 

Well, if that is the typical female attitude after her affair, then the same should be applied when the man has an affair, right? Honey it was just sex, that's all, get over it, it is in the past.

 

The problem a man has of getting over his wife's affair is that the kids might not be his. I mean why would a man or a woman object to their SO having sex with someone else?

 

Risk of STDs. well yeah that's a worry.

 

Risk of kids not being mine? Well that's not a problem for a woman. The kids are always hers. But a father? He has to worry about that. DNA testing should be mandatory at birth... But I guess some guys wouldn't care that someone else was "their" kids father.

 

If my wife screwed some other guy, why should that bother me? I wasn't denied any sex or affection. She still came home to my bed. So what if some other guy lit her fire? How does that affect me?

 

Pride? OK, no big deal, right? Just swallow one's pride and move on. Embarrassment if the affair becomes public knowledge? Who should care about a little embarrassment?

 

A man can't keep his wife from straying, well what kind of wimpy, worthless guy is that? He's certainly no stud. Something must be defective with his manhood. He's been made a fool of. Ah but that's not important.

 

So tell me ladies and gents. If your mate cheats on you what's the big deal? Why would your mate's cheating bother you? What causes the hurt?

 

Paternity?

Pride? Being made a fool of in public?

Destruction of trust?

Unfairness? one getting what the other may not have?

 

HC you listening? what's the big deal with a woman cheating on you.

 

What is the difference between male and female perspective on finding out your SO is cheating on you?

I think there is a difference.

 

Mostly it has to do with determining paternity. And it has to do with male ego or pride. Being able to command the respect and loyalty of his woman. Yes, that's possesive. If he can't do that he's less of a man. Ever read Graham Green's "The End of the Affair". One of the themes was the affair was really a struggle between two men. The H and the OM. The W was just a pawn in the game.

 

Is a brides virginity highly valued by the groom? Is a groom's virginity as highly valued by his bride?

 

So ladies, just what bothers you most about your H's infidelity? The thought of the physical sex? Or the emotional abandonment? He might run off with OW? What is the problem?

 

Guys. What would bother you the most? The thought of the other man putting his paws all over your woman's body? Or her emotional attachment to some other guy? Public humiliation?

[Trialbyfire]

FIC, all you've done is taken the emotional element out of cheating and attempted to justify it through the simple act of copulation. So easy to get over, right?

 

Cheating is fraught full of emotion.

 

Let me ask you this question. Have you ever cheated or been cheated on before? If so, which one of the two?

[Flyin in Clouds]

FIC, all you've done is taken the emotional element out of cheating and attempted to justify it through the simple act of copulation. So easy to get over, right?

 

I wasn't trying to do that at all. I'm not justifying cheating at all. And I don't believe it is easy to get over, at all. My remarks above were sometime flipant. I believe cheating is akin to rape in the emotional impact on men and perhaps women. But I do think men and women react differently (in general, of course individual men and women may not fit the generaliztion...) The emotional scars left on a rape victim are terrible. For some the deepth of pain as a betrayed spouse may be just as deep and long lasting. Women can understand how terrible the impact of rape is. I believe being betrayed can be that terrible for some men. (One cheating wife on a different forum explained how her H was weak because one day she came home and found he'd hung himself. She blamed him for creating a horrible image for their children when they found him in the back yard hanging from a tree. it wasn't her fault for cheating... nope... not one bit or remorse. )

 

So my question for men and women (please idenditfy your gender when answering), is my thesis correct? Of all the imacts of cheating, which one is most troubling to a man or a woman? Is it the thought of your wife having sex with another man? Or is her emotional involvement with another man more troubling to the betrayed husband? For women which is most hurtful? Your H's having sex with another woman or his emotional involvement with another woman? Just what makes cheating so terrible from the betrayed spouses perspective?

 

I think for women, generally, it's the emotional involvement of their H with another woman that is most troubling, and not the sex. The female cheater tend to say to the BS "it's over, it was just sex, it's done with, let's move on. Forget it. I'm not in love with OM anymore." indicating from a female perspective the sex wan't the big deal and their husbands should see it that way. For men I think it is just the opposite. It's the sex a man's wife has with someone else that bothers men the most. That image never disappears from a man's mind and that is what is hard, if not impossible to "get over". Men are not wired the same emotionally as women. So I believe there is a difference in the way men and women react to being betrayed. Just as there is a difference between how men and women feel about sex in their relationship.

 

What I'm asking is "What's the big deal? What is most hurtful to you about being betrayed? Why make a fuss at all?" (perhpas this deserves it's own thread).

 

Let me ask you this question. Have you ever cheated or been cheated on before? If so, which one of the two?

I have had sexual relations with only three women in my life. Each one was a steady girlfriend, the last becoming my wife. I have never cheated on any of them. Unless you count looking at other women as cheating. (My definition of cheating is having sex and unlike Clinton I am not confused about a bj being sex. I might also include "dirty" dancing as sex with clothes on. Not something I like to see my wife doing with other guys, unless I also have a partner to "dance" with.)

 

First GF may have cheated but she denied it. We had gone steady for four years, she was "pinned" (she had my fraternity pin, which in the fraternity world means we were engaged to be engaged). She broke it off with no explanation. At that time she was in the play Cabaret, the lead, Sally Bowles - playing a whore. She did a damn find job at it too. Of course with me she was all prime and proper. She could play the whore when she wanted to but with me I guess she didn't want to. She was the only woman I wanted, my reason for getting out of bed in the morning. The reason for going to college - to start a family with her. But that's not what she wanted.

 

Second GF. Definetly cheated. But I should have seen it coming because she was engaged when she started dating me. Being the OM was not a particulary proud moment, but in the long view I figured I saved my buddy from marrying a slut, which is what she was. She was a lot of fun while it lasted. She was hot. ... and hot women can burn a guy. She helped me recover from GF 1.

 

Last GF/wife, of 30+ years. Has my wife ever cheated on me? I don't know. I know I haven't cheated on her. That is all I can be certain of. There was a "rumor" about her and her boss years ago. She claims it was only a rumor. But she had plenty of opportunity on company travel. Was it possible. Definetly. Probably? Maybe not. It isn't exactly in her charater, but then many men never think their wife to be capable of such deception. If you dig through my past posts you'd find out more of the story.

 

Now is that enough of a disclosure to satisfy you?

[serial muse]

Second GF. Definetly cheated. But I should have seen it coming because she was engaged when she started dating me. Being the OM was not a particulary proud moment, but in the long view I figured I saved my buddy from marrying a slut, which is what she was. She was a lot of fun while it lasted. She was hot. ... and hot women can burn a guy. She helped me recover from GF 1.

 

Whoa...you dated your buddy's fiancee? Are you and he still friends? How did he handle it all?? Did he consider it like rape?

 

This is going probably going to sound snarky, and I honestly don't mean it that way. But it just bears pointing out that what you wrote here kind of undermines your thesis.

 

As for answering your question - I'm a woman, and was cheated on. I hated both aspects, physical and emotional. Both made me want to throw up. It hurt like hell to imagine him telling her he loved her, sure. But it also hurt my pride, my sense of self, and I felt like screaming every time I imagined them in bed together. The most lingering effects have been on my pride, my self-esteem, and my trust in my own instincts. Those persisted long after I stopped wanting him.

 

Honestly, FIC, I think you should try to understand that, at our cores, men and women have far more in common than not. And this is one of those things.