Crazy-in-love vs. She was good to me..

[Johnny B]

It makes a bit more sense now. Even tho I think she was wrong to do so, I can see why she played you why she did.

You probably should have agreed to NC as soon as she got her new BF- probably as soon as you broke up for that matter.

 

When I broke up with her.. I began dating some other women. None of that panned out obviously but at the same time I didn't do any of the things she did to me. I purposely avoided her. In fact she was the one constantly asking me to the movies, plays, dinner, drinks, etc. Yes, I did accept a few of those invitation b/c I had conveniently put HER in the friend category.

 

Amazing how quickly the tables can turn....

 

I can see why you are hurt and annoyed now. I think at the end of the day, there is never going to be a happy ending with you and this girl, and to chalk it up to experience. There is too much water under the bridge and hurt on both sides for you to have another go. It might take you some time before you are ready to date, but in preparation, break contact with this girl.

 

When you are, you will be able to use this experience to guide you next time. And there WILL be a next time, as difficult as it may be to comprehend at the moment.

 

I will admit that I fantasize about another chance. At the same time, her and the new guy are both in their late 20s and I think they're going to get married. It seems certain to me in fact. I hate it. All signs point to yes... at least me being an outsider. I've never been so upset over something.. especially a girl

 

I considered contact broken when that last text message exchange occured about 3 weeks ago... There will be a chance I'll see her in the office from now until the time I leave for Europe. I intend to just say, "hi" and keep going.

 

I hope 3 months in Europe can do something for me... I really, really want to embrace it and live it up. I hope to be much stronger when I return because right now I still try to fight the memories and things I did wrong in my head. It just doesn't go away!!! 5 months at this point... only a little progress.

 

Still waiting for when this gets easier.

[sb129]

I know it feels like it never will, but it really does, I promise.

 

She isn't the right woman for you.

 

Europe will be amazing... where you going?

[Johnny B]

Thanks SB... I really, really, really hope you and everyone else is right

 

Work assignments in London, Paris and Rome.

 

j

[sb129]

All three are very cool cities, and quite different too.

 

 

I know I am right, because I have been in break ups before!!!

 

you DO get over it...

There is an AMAZING restaurant in Rome that I am trying to remember the name of. Hold on.

 

there is a great one in Paris too...... where the locals go. Best steak I have had in europe and best chocolate mousse i have ever had - better than sex!

will try and find the names for you

[Darth Vader]

Johnny, why don't you just tell her new boyfriend what she has been doing to you? He should at least know what he's getting himself into, it's not his fault that she's doing this. My point is, let her boyfriend see what she really is, or has been doing, let him be the judge of his own life, because from the looks of it she's playing both of you for suckers, stop rolling over and letting her disrepect you, you don't deserve that, I think you have learned your lesson. Time for her to learn the same.

[sb129]

With all due respect DV (I had my picture taken with you the other week in London!) i don't think its up to Johnny B to tell his ex's new BF what she is like.

 

The new BF will only see it as sour grapes and is unlikely to believe him, Johnny B will look bad and undignified, and it will cause ructions. Her new BF will find out her faults soon enough if they are that apparent.

[Johnny B]

Lord Vader -

 

Trust me I have been tempted to on a few occasions and I've had many, many opportunities to do so. She's even brought him to OUR team happy hours, where I could have gone up to him and said hey, nice to meet you, I'm the guy your g/f dated before you and guess what she still has feelings left for me...

 

But of course I didn't do that. I don't even think he knows who I am OR if he as any suspicions, I would bet my house she's told him that I just have a crush on her, nothing more. I guarantee she hasn't told him who I really am.

 

However I did go up to him and introduce myself respectfully. I think that leaves me in a better light overall, instead of making a big scene over it....

 

Although in the end if she ever does anything to really, really piss me off, I have a stack of saved emails showing just how 'over me' she is, and that I can send him. That might be interesting.

 

Besides, from what I can tell.. he's so goo-goo over her that it wouldn't matter what I say. He's not gonna leave her.

 

Until then.. I want to be the cool, calm, confident guy that I used to be.

 

That's my goal.

[sb129]

Its a good goal.

 

Dignity is so much better.

[Darth Vader]

Lord Vader -

 

Trust me I have been tempted to on a few occasions and I've had many, many opportunities to do so. She's even brought him to OUR team happy hours, where I could have gone up to him and said hey, nice to meet you, I'm the guy your g/f dated before you and guess what she still has feelings left for me...

 

But of course I didn't do that. I don't even think he knows who I am OR if he as any suspicions, I would bet my house she's told him that I just have a crush on her, nothing more. I guarantee she hasn't told him who I really am.

 

However I did go up to him and introduce myself respectfully. I think that leaves me in a better light overall, instead of making a big scene over it....

 

Although in the end if she ever does anything to really, really piss me off, I have a stack of saved emails showing just how 'over me' she is, and that I can send him. That might be interesting.

 

Besides, from what I can tell.. he's so goo-goo over her that it wouldn't matter what I say. He's not gonna leave her.

 

Until then.. I want to be the cool, calm, confident guy that I used to be.

 

That's my goal.

 

I like the way you think about those E-Mails!:cool:

You may be right about OM though, anything short of her having sex with someone else isn't gonna hold any water!

 

 

With all due respect DV (I had my picture taken with you the other week in London!) i don't think its up to Johnny B to tell his ex's new BF what she is like.

 

The new BF will only see it as sour grapes and is unlikely to believe him, Johnny B will look bad and undignified, and it will cause ructions. Her new BF will find out her faults soon enough if they are that apparent.

 

I hope he does, for his sake, don't wanna be with someone who isn't real!

By the way, did they catch my Good, I mean Dark Side?

[sb129]

By the way, did they catch my Good, I mean Dark Side?

 

Of course!

[Johnny B]

Ok this took a few days to seep in after what everyone has said...

 

Is it possible that the symbol of what this woman represents for me, combined with the idealization that I've created, is something now unattainable for any other girl?

 

In other words, have I built her up so much in my head that no matter who I meet going forward, they will never live up to the fabrication and manifestaion I've now created in my psyche?

 

How far fetched is this reasoning? How will anyone be able to surpass what I've created in my mind?

 

-deep in thought...

Johnny

[polywog]

When you get over her and return to your senses, you'll be open to another relationship. I think we all go through this when we haven't finished in our hearts with our ex.

[CaliGuy]

Lord Vader -

 

Trust me I have been tempted to on a few occasions and I've had many, many opportunities to do so. She's even brought him to OUR team happy hours, where I could have gone up to him and said hey, nice to meet you, I'm the guy your g/f dated before you and guess what she still has feelings left for me...

 

But of course I didn't do that. I don't even think he knows who I am OR if he as any suspicions, I would bet my house she's told him that I just have a crush on her, nothing more. I guarantee she hasn't told him who I really am.

 

However I did go up to him and introduce myself respectfully. I think that leaves me in a better light overall, instead of making a big scene over it....

 

Although in the end if she ever does anything to really, really piss me off, I have a stack of saved emails showing just how 'over me' she is, and that I can send him. That might be interesting.

 

Besides, from what I can tell.. he's so goo-goo over her that it wouldn't matter what I say. He's not gonna leave her.

 

Until then.. I want to be the cool, calm, confident guy that I used to be.

 

That's my goal.

 

Johnny, don't do that. You'll just look like a bitter child. If this girl is as much trouble as she sounds, he'll find out soon enough. The less involved you get in their relationship, the better off you'll be. In fact, you can't possibly screw anything up if you STAY OUT OF IT.

 

Would you rather smell like a rose or a turd? If you involve yourself, it will be the later and not the former.

 

Confident, self-assured, masculine men don't run around whining to their ex's new B/F about how she treated you badly. That's just not a very confident thing to do.

 

The best thing you could possibly do is put her on NC. Stop hanging out with her. Get a life that does not include her, don't play her games, cut her out of your life.

 

Are you following me?

 

Get yourself in gear. Get to the gym, work out, hang out with friends, start finding some new hobbies. The more you sulk over this woman the longer it's going to take for you to find someone BETTER for you.

 

Cheers.

[Darth Vader]

Of course!

 

 

Cool!:cool:

[lindya]

Ok this took a few days to seep in after what everyone has said...

 

Is it possible that the symbol of what this woman represents for me, combined with the idealization that I've created, is something now unattainable for any other girl?

 

In other words, have I built her up so much in my head that no matter who I meet going forward, they will never live up to the fabrication and manifestaion I've now created in my psyche?

 

How far fetched is this reasoning? How will anyone be able to surpass what I've created in my mind?

 

-deep in thought...

Johnny

 

It doesn't sound very far-fetched. Having "the one who got away" lets you have your cake and eat it too, in a sense. I've encountered some people who claim to be incapable of love, but it generally comes across as a defence mechanism against the risks that emotional intimacy entails. I suspect that deep down few people would really want to feel personally barred from feeling something as life-enhancing as love.

 

Maybe the reasoning you're talking about allows you to feel that you too can experience that feeling without having to deal with the irritating, everyday realities of being in a relationship. The loss of personal space and the feeling of having to compromise certain aspects of your behaviour and lifestyle for another person. So if this girl can be your ideal but unattainable "one" then it allows some romance into your life, while providing you with a cast iron excuse for not entering into a real (and, by definition, imperfect) long term relationship.

 

One anomoly that I may never figure out is that she admittedly was always attracted to guys like me, but this guy is the total opposite. Can that last? Who knows... maybe she's had enough of it... maybe she's old enough to be fed up with the bad boys and settle down with the safe bet who treats her well.

 

Perhaps. Drama, instability and uncertainty can stimulate a person for a while, but after a while it becomes a depressant. It could be that your ex became conscious of having reached that stage with you, after several relationships with guys who didn't treat her particularly well.

[Johnny B]

It doesn't sound very far-fetched. Having "the one who got away" lets you have your cake and eat it too, in a sense. I've encountered some people who claim to be incapable of love, but it generally comes across as a defence mechanism against the risks that emotional intimacy entails. I suspect that deep down few people would really want to feel personally barred from feeling something as life-enhancing as love.

 

Ok, but I don't want an idealistic form of love. I want the real thing. I'm certain that the other girls in my past were not for me. So the fact that I didn't try to work on those relationships and broke them off does not bother me at all. However I truely believe it was that constant behavior and frame of thinking that made me break up with this girl as well.

 

I never had the desire to make a relationship work because I never felt THAT feeling. I never met the person who made me want to try. I also was selfish and immature and always thought the relationship was about me and if it wasn't going right, it meant that we were just not compatable. Maybe all of that thinking was just completely wrong. The grass is not always greener on the other side, I regret what I've done but it's too late and I've been living in this world of regret for months now.

 

She has moved on to supposedly a really great guy. Treats her well and she says its really serious. I think they'll get married. So in the end if that happens... I guess she and I were just not meant to be.

 

 

Maybe the reasoning you're talking about allows you to feel that you too can experience that feeling without having to deal with the irritating, everyday realities of being in a relationship. The loss of personal space and the feeling of having to compromise certain aspects of your behaviour and lifestyle for another person. So if this girl can be your ideal but unattainable "one" then it allows some romance into your life, while providing you with a cast iron excuse for not entering into a real (and, by definition, imperfect) long term relationship.

 

I've thought about this. I think there is a ton of truth behind it. Yes, I've always been very independent. I've never felt that I need someone else to complete me or have I ever met someone who I just cannot keep out of my mind and would tremble at the thought of losing. NEVER! I've always felt that relationships compromise my personal space and that I'd rather be single!!

 

These emotions that I'm feeling now are so foreign to me. Our relationship was very short (5 months) and the time after the breakup (3 months) when she tried to get me back, I wasn't having it. I thought it was the right decison and time to move on. Now, the throughout the length of her new relationship (6 months)... I'm still feeling pain and regret of losing someone that truely embodied all of the qualities that I want in a woman.

 

So I struggle with why I didn't try... why I didnt want to make it work...why I didnt treat her as well as I should have... why I let her go.

 

So this idealization that I've created is truely frightening me. How will anyone be able to top this 'created' person???

 

I haven't spoken to her in any format in 1 month now. The longest we've ever gone. It was my request after she had continuosly been throwing crumbs at me... telling me that she's struggling with her decision. I couldnt deal with it anymore. She really wasnt struggling with it... You dont struggle with a decision when you describe your current relationship as the 'best relationship' you've ever had. And they guy treats her like 'gold.'

 

No, she was just enjoying my pining after her. Having her cake and eating it too. It's painful.. but I have no one to blame here but myself for what's happend.

[lindya]

I never had the desire to make a relationship work because I never felt THAT feeling. I never met the person who made me want to try. I also was selfish and immature and always thought the relationship was about me and if it wasn't going right, it meant that we were just not compatable. Maybe all of that thinking was just completely wrong. The grass is not always greener on the other side, I regret what I've done but it's too late and I've been living in this world of regret for months now.

 

You can't stay feeling that way forever - that doesn't do a person any good.

 

I think it takes some courage to look at oneself and say what you're saying...but you have to take care not to beat yourself up too much. There are guys out there who will never get to where you are in terms of taking responsibility for your actions. It's not as though you're doing it in a "my my - I treat the ladies poorly and they love me for it...validate me" sort of way either.

 

What you're saying sounds honest and self aware, but you probably do now need to start moving on from that; thinking less about who you don't want to be (any more) and what sort of person you would like to be within a relationship. The problem is, of course, that you don't want anyone but this girl right now - and that's probably partly because she's unattainable now, and seems to have an ideal relationship.

 

In some ways, your post reminds me very much of an ex. It probably reminds lots of other female posters of exes too. This particular guy I'm thinking of always seemed impressed by other people's relationships, and would regard their girlfriends as cool. Without him directly saying so, I'd feel that he was making an unfavourable comparison. eg "Our relationship isn't as good as theirs. You're not as confident and secure as her - and therefore not as cool."

 

I think the thing is that when a woman is in a good relationship where she feels loved and cared about, it's not so difficult for her to transmit that "wonderful girlfriend" aura to others. I think you're maybe understanding that, insofar as you're reflecting on having only put 30% of the necessary effort into your previous relationship.

 

It takes more than 30% effort to help another person to shine - and because your ex's current boyfriend is making that effort, you're probably seeing her at her best now. If you can't shake off the feeling that nobody can replace her, and if it results in you inadvertently creating insecurities in future partners, you might relegate yourself perpetually to that state from which other men's wives/girlfriends always seem better than the one you've got.

[Johnny B]

You can't stay feeling that way forever - that doesn't do a person any good.

 

I think it takes some courage to look at oneself and say what you're saying...but you have to take care not to beat yourself up too much. There are guys out there who will never get to where you are in terms of taking responsibility for your actions. It's not as though you're doing it in a "my my - I treat the ladies poorly and they love me for it...validate me" sort of way either.

 

What you're saying sounds honest and self aware, but you probably do now need to start moving on from that; thinking less about who you don't want to be (any more) and what sort of person you would like to be within a relationship. The problem is, of course, that you don't want anyone but this girl right now - and that's probably partly because she's unattainable now, and seems to have an ideal relationship.

 

I am being honest and I'm quite sincere with these realizations. I just wonder how long these feelings will last. It doesn't help that we work for the same company and that I have to see her periodically. It feels like the wound just doesn't heal. I hope my trip to Europe will help me get away and move forward, realizing there is more out there for me than this saddness and regret.

 

I want to finally wake up one day and not think how I threw away something I shouldnt have. How that sometimes you just don't get a second chance. I don't want anymore feelings of regret. I feel that I've learned my lessons.. these months have been so difficult. I'm trying to believe that some people are brought into our lives for a reason. Although it's hard for me to accept it right now.

 

I think the thing is that when a woman is in a good relationship where she feels loved and cared about, it's not so difficult for her to transmit that "wonderful girlfriend" aura to others. I think you're maybe understanding that, insofar as you're reflecting on having only put 30% of the necessary effort into your previous relationship.

 

It takes more than 30% effort to help another person to shine - and because your ex's current boyfriend is making that effort, you're probably seeing her at her best now. If you can't shake off the feeling that nobody can replace her, and if it results in you inadvertently creating insecurities in future partners, you might relegate yourself perpetually to that state from which other men's wives/girlfriends always seem better than the one you've got.

 

I know. You are 100% correct. This is what I see from her, but please understand that I KNOW this was possible with me ONLY IF I would have been willing or WANTING to do it at the time.

 

Many posters on here have said that the very fact that you did NOT want to do it at the time, by definition means you did not love her. Love is not retroactive. Although you can miss something when it's gone, love is not created that way. It is when you are WITH that person at that moment in time. It is then, you either know you are in love or not. If it's not there in the moment, then feeling it afterwards is just a compilation of multiple factors: loneliness, regret, grief.... but not love.

 

I only gave 30%. I wish I would've given 300%. She was worth it. She deserved more than what I gave her. If someone else truely makes her happier than I did the first time around whereas I only feel like this in the aftermath, then they are meant to be together. Not she and I.

[datingmum]

Hi Johnny,

 

I just wanted to comment on what an earlier poster said about not fixating on this girl. My expartner spent 4 long years pining over a girl, feeling pain and romanticising what was never really there. She added to the situation by calling him/leaning on him/talking to him about her current relationships.

 

He'd finally come to the realisation that his rose tinted memories of the relationship were born out of loneliness and lack of any other romantic interest on the scene etc and was just casting back to the last love he'd had. Problem is, by the time we got together, I sensed that their 'friendship' felt wrong. It was like a broken bone that had never healed properly. They'd never had the 'last supper', so to speak where they truly said goodbye. She was single when we got together and kept trying to get in the way by txting at innappropriate moments, etc - beyond what exs who are friends should do and I had to ask him to please stop the friendship because she clearly wasn't ready to finally let go. And maybe there was a part of him that still wasn't in some weird way. I understand this, I've been divorced and I still feel for my ex, there is still a love that will never go away. He felt guilty turning her away but it was necessary for the health of our relationship.

 

I asked him to go to her one evening and have dinner with her and do this. They did and after that, she stopped clinging to him and moved on to find another man.

 

Needless to say, however, this situation did create alot of conflict in our early relationship when I was unsure of his intentions. I knew he loved me intensely, but I'm the sort of girl who thinks 'this town ain't big enough for the two of us' and I don't really think that chitty chatty friendships with exs is all that healthy.

 

All I'm saying, in a long and rambling way, is this:

 

Get your headspace right. Ask her to sit down with you one last time and autopsy what happened with you two. Tell her everything in your heart and mind in a calm way. Ask her to be completely honest. give her time to prepare. Tell her you need this for your own closure, so that you can move on to your own healthy relationships. Tell her thank you for the lessons you've learned and that you're sorry you hurt her.

 

After this sort of conversation, you'll lay it to bed. There is a small outside chance that after hearing you, she will break it off with new guy and come rushing back to you. But please please please don't approach the conversation in this way. She needs to believe you are moving on. YOU need to believe you're moving on, even if your heart doesn't want to. You have to take some concrete actions.

 

And if she ever did come rushing back (which a woman in love would do, believe me) then welcome her with open arms and never EVER back off becuase you're insecure about the current boyfriend etc. I bet you a hundred bucks she's telling you how good he's treating her because she wants you to know that she is worthy of that. Between the lines, she is saying "why didn't you do this for me when we were together?" Honestly, if she was totally in love, she would not even be entertaining discussions of 'i'm agonised over the choices'. When I left my marriage, I was totally adn utterly clear and honest and NEVER EVER talked to my ex (of 15 years) about not knowing what to do about my current relationship or go back with him. Seriously. A woman truly in love does not do that.

 

But whatever the case, you have no control over her or her actions. All you can do is seriously move on for you. Contact, one last time, and make it real because you both need to feel it's true. This is the only resolution.

[Johnny B]

All I'm saying, in a long and rambling way, is this:

 

Get your headspace right. Ask her to sit down with you one last time and autopsy what happened with you two. Tell her everything in your heart and mind in a calm way. Ask her to be completely honest. give her time to prepare. Tell her you need this for your own closure, so that you can move on to your own healthy relationships. Tell her thank you for the lessons you've learned and that you're sorry you hurt her.

 

After this sort of conversation, you'll lay it to bed. There is a small outside chance that after hearing you, she will break it off with new guy and come rushing back to you. But please please please don't approach the conversation in this way. She needs to believe you are moving on. YOU need to believe you're moving on, even if your heart doesn't want to. You have to take some concrete actions.

 

And if she ever did come rushing back (which a woman in love would do, believe me) then welcome her with open arms and never EVER back off becuase you're insecure about the current boyfriend etc. I bet you a hundred bucks she's telling you how good he's treating her because she wants you to know that she is worthy of that. Between the lines, she is saying "why didn't you do this for me when we were together?" Honestly, if she was totally in love, she would not even be entertaining discussions of 'i'm agonised over the choices'. When I left my marriage, I was totally adn utterly clear and honest and NEVER EVER talked to my ex (of 15 years) about not knowing what to do about my current relationship or go back with him. Seriously. A woman truly in love does not do that.

 

But whatever the case, you have no control over her or her actions. All you can do is seriously move on for you. Contact, one last time, and make it real because you both need to feel it's true. This is the only resolution.

 

Thanks datingmum. I hear what you're saying. However I've done this multiple times. She has zero doubt how I feel about her. We may have not have had one last sit down dinner, but we did have face to face conversations, i've written emails and letters and chats online (yes, i know the worst format but it happend).

 

I do not expect you to go over my 100+ posts I've left on this board but if you read this thread in it's entirety, you should have a firm grasp of everything that has gone on thus far.

 

In the end, I pursued her lightly from December - January. Very intensely in February, but cooled it off in March. When April came and her b/f left for his 6 month business trip to Australia. She pursued ME heavily, but in a friendship, I like hangin out with you way. I was foolish to think that it was her being interested so I took her bait. When I realized reconciliation wasn't what she wanted.. I finally told her that it has to stop and I'm done with it.

 

I think she enjoyed the fact that although I let her go.. this was her way now of having control over the situation. I didn't want her when she pursued me in the 3 months after i broke up with her. And shes fully aware that I had a change of heart only when she began dating this new guy.

 

At this juncture, she's told me a number of times that this is her best relationship ever, this guy treats me like gold. I dont want to give up what i have for a what if. But even admitting that she loves the guy, but not head over heels in love. That highs that me and her shared, she'll probably not share with anyone again.

 

I dont know how much of any of that i believe but it doesnt matter. She knows how i feel. Ive told her mutliple times. My pursuit has only inflated her ego. It isnt that I dont have closure. I do. I just dont have closure with myself.

 

I'm still working on that. If she wanted to be with me or realized that she wants me more than him, she'd be with me now. Or she would try harder than saying she's struggling with her decision. I know b/c when i realized that i wanted her back... i would have swam an ocean to be with her.

 

Shes comfortable where she is and apparently quite happy with someone who cares for her a lot. Its what she wants as well.

 

Thats why i dont want to have one more sit down. I've done it many times. It would accomplish nothing except for her knowing that i STILL havent moved on. At least when I told her enough of her mind games.. and that Im done with this... i was able to regain some of my dignity.

 

Its all I have at this point.

[Trialbyfire]

You've done enough pursuing. She's well aware of where you stand.

 

Judging by your story, I think she still cares for you to an extent, but is unable to get past the consistency, reliability and trust issues. Same thing happened with myself and the ex, although I doubt your transgressions were as narcisstic as his.

 

You have a wonderful trip/experience to look forward to. Focus on this and yourself JohnnyB.

 

Let...her...go.