I guess it's time...

[Saxis]

Hello to everyone!

 

We've hurt each other many times, we've both been at fault, it would get better, then worse, then really good, and as I was saying, I guess now it's time... to separate. This is my wife's idea, as I've always been the one ready to tackle anything in front of us. We just passed our 3rd anniversary, and now our daughter will be turning 3. The pregnancy kinda rushed our marriage, but we were heading that direction anyway. We were young, I was 22, she was 20.

 

I've been reading some others' experiences with separation here already, and I always had hope that we would eventually work through it after a break. By the looks of things here, that will probably not be the case. I've made alot of mistakes since she decided this already, crying and depressed. I haven't got to the pleading her to stay really, but she hasn't left yet either. Our daughter's birthday is coming up next week, and we have family visiting. Then she and kid are taking a vacation to visit her parents for a couple weeks in June. Her plan is to just co-exist until she goes on vacation, and separate when she get's back. We've talked quite a bit, civilized, and I'm just torn apart over the whole thing.

 

I'm really looking forward to getting support here, as I've read some good stuff (especially from Gunny!). I'm thinking I now just have to step up and "BE A MAN!!!!" like he suggests. I have already told her I will not be fine without her, but I guess I will have to take that back!

 

Joining the ranks,

Saxis

[michael's_pain]

Saxis,

 

You probably aren't glad you're hear but I speak for everyone when I say we are glad to have you. I am enduring my own separation-under-the-same-roof situation right now, and know that the next few weeks will be an emotional kick in the groin and knee to the head for you. When you are confused and when you feel the vortex sucking you back into DRAMALAND, post. People like me who lean on this board for support will be here to lend a hand. You didn't get married alone, and you won't get separated that way, either.

 

SOLIDARITY! mike

[sumdude]

Without more details I can't say too much but...I guess your wife is the one wanting to end it. still

 

Separation and/or divorce should be a last resort. Always always try to fix the marriage first. Of course both of you have to be committed to it. OK, so you're young ... hey if you can get through this patch the next rough one will be easier to deal with. You have to learn relationships because no one ever really teaches them to you Do you honestly believe leaving this one will just fix everything? Cause guess what ... if you don't learn anything the next one will be a repeat.

 

Have you gone to counciling and both worked at the issues? Checked out some of the online resources like ?

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com

 

 

Checked out some pretty decent books about staying married?

[Saxis]

Yes it is her that wants the separation. She has done the usual that I've seen here: promise that she's not cheating or even looking for someone else, she still loves me but is not in love with me, she needs time to figure out who she is...

 

The last time we were having problems, she suggested counciling, and I was very hesitant. I was worried how we were going to pay for it, as we were already struggling with bills. I suggested MarriageBuilders to her, and I was completely prepared to follow that site. She took one read of a few pages, and just said "I don't agree with alot of that.", and that was the end of it. I think I will suggest counciling again, as now I am making much more money and we wouldn't have to put ourselves into debt. I'm pretty sure she's under the assumption at this point that it's too late for counciling. She has said though, when she gets back from her vacation, she might find that she is ready to try to work it out. We're just trying to get through the next month. Right now, I am just preparing myself for the worst, as I have seen from only a few reads at this site, that it's probably what will happen.

 

This weekend we are going to do separate things. She is in community theatre, and has performances all weekend. She is going to spend the nights at her friend's house who is also in the play. She has assured me that if I call her friend's house, she will be there, so I don't have to worry that she's out cheating. Since I have family visiting, our daughter will be spending the weekend at my parents. By luck and chance, my best friend called last night, saying his wife and kids will be visiting her parents all weekend, so he's coming to stay with me. I've got a boat I'm restoring, and we're gonna start tearing into it to keep my mind occupied.

[Gunny376]

I'm just going to give it to you straight up, without holding back. I'm not trying to bring you down, but just giving you "news you could use"

 

You didn't elaborate about her working and how she's going to support herself once you've separated, although you did allude to your previously having had financial problems.

 

The good news is, in so long as your still in the same house ~ you've got a chance. If you’re still sleeping in the same bed ~ you've got an even better chances, and if you're still having any kind of sex ~ the odds go up.

 

So, I would at all costs try and keep from separating under any conditions. Don't padlock her in the house, don't beg, don't plead, don't cry. I seriously doubt that even logic and reasoning would work.

 

So, how do you go about keeping her from separating ~ don't help and finance her leaving you. Don't be a jerk, and don't deny her the necessities of life etc. But just refuse to help her move one damn thing, and to finance her new life without you.

 

IOW, "You can leave if that's what you want, that's certainly your prerogative, but I'll be damn if I'm going to help you break up this marriage and tear apart this family! And, I'll be damned if I'm going to pay good money to help you do so!"

 

If money is an issue ~ married ~ she can bet her sweet azz its going to be an issue as a 23 year old single mother with a child.

 

My call on the ball is that she's not cheating ~ (based upon what you've posted ~ and the more info the better I can call the ball).

But,...............................she's part of the Community Theater Group, and just made a connection with that group ~ both men and women ~ and there's some Joker that's she more emotionally connected with or fantasying about that's got her brain housing group all screwed up, and her head in a "fog" (Personally, I prefer "her head up her azz ~ but that's me)

 

Now don't go getting jealous and possessive on me?! That's not somewhere you want to go. I'm not saying she's cheating on you ~ I'm saying she's got a case of TGIG syndrome (The Grass Is Greener On The Other side)

 

Personally if I was you, at age 25, (Knowing what I now know at 50) I'd let her go. I've got it down to an art form. My last LTR GF had a big problem with our breakup.

 

Her: "I need some time and space!"

 

Me: "Ok! Have a good life!" ~ hang phone up

 

That's all I said to her, and she kept calling me, I guess wanting to know why I wasn't getting stupid drunk and all that crap. All broke up after six and half years together. But once a woman's done with me? I'm done with them! Just that plain ~ just that simple. No brag, just fact! I’ve got zero tolerance for "flakey broads syndrone!"

 

Women (and some men) are always using that BS threat of dumping you, and leaving your azz! Forget that! The first time a woman threatens me with dumping me, leaving me, divorcing ~ I’m going to be the answer to her dreams! I’m going to make her dreams a freaking reality ~ quick, fast and in a hurry like!

 

Personally, if it were me, (don’t try and be me, I’m an azzhole), when all this BS came up, I’d packed her trash and dumped her off at her parents house. Gotten a lawyer, and have the "papers" drawn up! And that’s because I’m a "in for a penny, in for a pound ~ all or nothing" type guy!" I would be like: "Don’t bother coming back from your parents ~ I’ve moved on with myself and my life!"

 

I wouldn’t be doing this living together ~ while separate BS either, I’d be packing her bags! And then getting busy getting busy with living my life! And getting on with my life!

 

And there is life after divorce!

 

Knowing what I know now? At 25? I'd move to a college town and party, and be up to my neck in T&A!

[Gunny376]

BTW ~ you're not really a "man" until you've had your heart good and properly "broken" by a woman! You survive that s*** ~ YOU'RE a MAN!!!!!

 

The good thing about it is ~ its like getting a shot! You build up an immunity to their BS and ways!

 

Once you've had your heart good and properly "broken" by a woman you've been madly in love with, you can look at Playboy Bunnies and say ~ "Pfffff! Get out of my face!"

[Saxis]

Gunny - Thanks for the inspiration! It has been exactly one week since this started, and for the first time, we did sleep in the same bed together. There was no touching and no talk, and we both slept rather well. We slept in late, and then took our showers (separate, of course) and had a quick chat before she left to her matinee performance. She said she didn't have to be there until 1:30, but she left at 11:30, said she need to get gas and stuff. The playhouse is only 10 minutes away. It was hard to see her go this morning. I did tell her that I missed her, and she said she missed me too. She said she thought this was working, and that her anger was going away, but she didn't give in to stopping the separation or anything. I told her that I still loved her, but that I need to move past this. She did say that she still loved me, too. I don't know whether this is good or not. I certainly don't want conversation like this to drive her further away, but at the same time, I really do want to take this time for myself. It's hard to force my mind to think about it this way.

 

Yesterday I took my daughter out to visit my family, and have dinner with them, and she also showed up, but could not stay for dinner due to the play. My family has no idea about any of this, and it was stinking hard to sit there while she completely ignored me the entire time. Didn't even say goodbye to me or anything when she left. Won't take long for them to figure it out like that... She said she wanted to go visit my family this evening after the play, since our daughter is spending a couple days there, and she hasn't seen my grandparents in a long time (they drove halfway across the country to be here). She asked me if it was OK if she went out to visit, and I told her it was. Our daughter is there, and I can't keep her away from her.

 

You are right, I think it will be really hard, if not impossible for her to move out on her own. She originally said that she would need some money from our savings, in which she has done very little to help earn. She only makes a couple hundred dollars a month, and half the time she cashes her checks and uses them for food or whatever else she needs or wants.

 

And about her cheating and/or finding someone else... The thing about the playhouse is, most of the men there are older or married. I know ONE guy there that is not married and around our age that she's pretty close to, but he's in a serious relationship now. My wife has even tried to set him up with some of her friends though (before his relationship was very serious). The start of this entire thing came about when I called his phone becuase her cell phone was either turned off or not getting service. She answered his phone, because he was driving. She had no idea it was me calling, and made a comment about them screwing. Everyone in the car erupted in laughter, so I knew this was a joke, but I just flew off the handle. When she got home (she was supposed to have been home 2 hours ago), we got into a big screaming match, she called a friend to pick her up (her car was at the playhouse, because she was drinking at the cast party) and left for the night. Next day, Mother's Day, is when she told me she wanted the separation. I'm sure there has been no cheating (sex, at least, since there was an instance of her kissing a "friend" when she was really drunk) since we've been together, but both of us have only had sex with each other (we are each other's first), and I"m sure she's wondering... I have wondered too, but sex was always so amazing with her, there's just no way or reason! The last couple years, she's had some problems in the sex area, with bladder infections, hormones from birth control... It was starting to become an issue for both of us. I have recommended that she discontinues her birth control, since she has said that she has no plans of having sex anytime soon. She even went on to say that she doesn't want to have sex with anyone but me! How much can I really believe her though? What if she removes her birth control, and all her sexual desire comes back while we're separated?

 

Anyway, what really seemed like a good thing today, was that she said that her anger is going away, and we managed to sleep in the same bed without any problems. That's good news for us, or at least me. I had some trouble keeping myself together when she was getting ready to leave, and then I jumped on here to post. It really does help!

[Saxis]

Well, we both went out to visit my family yeserday, and it went quite well. Awkward at times for me. We played cards, laughed, generally had a good time. We're usually very affectionate to each other, so it is a huge change to keep our distance. My family still doesn't know (at least we haven't said anything), and it's hard to make it look like there are no problems. There's always been tension between the wife and my mom, so I really don't want to get them involved. My wife's parents are currently going through a divorce (just found out a couple weeks ago, right before our big fight), and I wonder how much that impacted my wife's decision.

 

Since our daughter stayed at my parent's last night, wife decided to sleep in her room. So we're back to seperate beds after one night. She said that sleeping together was OK. It's probably best to keep our distance until it is comfortable though. This morning she asked if I wanted to go see a movie with her, and I guess we're going to try to make the 6:10 showing after she gets off work at 6:00. Hope this goes as well as last night...

 

It is already getting easier to cope with this, and I imagine it would go even better if we were separated already. I can't be too sure, but I'm still hoping she at least tries a few counseling sessions before she makes a final decision. I have to admit that I was hesitant about getting a 3rd party involved, and paying for it, but I think I'm finally ready. I should've been ready a LONG time ago...

[quiet1one1]

The last couple years, she's had some problems in the sex area, with bladder infections, hormones from birth control... It was starting to become an issue for both of us. quote]

 

OK....I'll ask. Any chance these are just excuses she's using so she doesn't have to be intimate with you? Either cause she just doesn't want to or she's intimate with someone else?

[Saxis]

No I don't think so. Not long after our daughter was born, and we started having sex again, she got a very bad bladder infection. Pain like bladder stones. When asked what she could do to keep that from happening again, the doctor told her to make sure she goes to the bathroom and cleans herself well after sex, among other things. I think she has always kind of blamed sex as the cause of it, and that's kinda when it started. Not long after that, she had an IUD birth control put in, and it never did feel quite right. A lot of pain for her there, too. At first, we could both feel it during sex, and even after her doctor checked it and trimmed the string, she could always feel it, and made her very uncomfortable. Either her hormones were out of whack due to the IUD, or the combination of it and the infection created an aversion to sex for her.

[Saxis]

One quick question:

 

I will be going with my family to her final play performance, and I had planned on doing something special for her to show my support, even before all this. I like that she's in this play, even though it did take alot of time away from us, and we'd probably not be in this situation right now if she wasn't doing it, but she always thought I didn't support her enough. Yes, I complained about how much time it was taking, and always liked to know where she would be and who she'd be with at the cast parties. I shouldn't have been so untrusting, but what can I say, I'm a jealous guy when other people are spending more time with my wife than I am.

 

Would it be acceptable to buy her some flowers for her final performance? Is it too late to show her the support that she really deserved in the first place? I don't want to push her away more, or make it seem like I'm begging for her forgiveness.

 

I'll keep you posted about how this second week plays out and go from there...

[Gunny376]

Its sounding more and more like you've hurt her feelings, and she's just PTFO at you. And, yea her parent's divorcing could be a factor in the equation.

 

To be honest? It could go either way? You're walking the "razor's edge" right now. She's got doubts about actually seperating. With her parent's seperating, they're not really in a postion to take her and the DD in, and I doubt the DW has the financial resources (even with CS) to go solo. (Although don't underestimate her capacity and determination to do so.)

 

You need to read ilmw's thread start to finish ~ and then read it again. This, I think is the way that you need to proceed, and then do some reading. (Search my post with Gunny 376, I've already posted a list of books) as well as those suggested by Lady Jane, "Five Languages of Love" Her Needs, His Needs".

 

I'm not big on MC's ~ they have as big if not larger failure rate as do the avery Joe.

 

What's going on with the two of you is that you're learning how to be married to one another. Which isn't the same if you were each married to someone else ~ that is to say ~ even if you did actually seperate and divorce and get married to someone else ~ guess what? You're going to have to learn how to be married to them. Each marriage is the same ~ yet each one is different.

 

I don't agree that an actual physical seperation is in order ~ but you do need to pull back from one another ~ dis-engage ~ and re-group. You do need to study and learn the mechanics of being with one another and being a couple while being an individual. You do need to let her be ~ her, and her be you.

 

To me that's the question between the two of you? How can I be me while letting her be her, while still being a couple. Time to hit the bookstores and the library.

 

I think you need to validate her individual autonomy ~ independence. I think you need to tell her:

 

"Look, your being married to me and being my wife, doesn't mean you can't be who you are and who you want to become, and do what you want and need to do with and in your own life. I love you not because I need you, I need you in my life because I love you! We got married young, and I know that I, if not both of us have got some things to learn about being married in general, but also in being married to one another. I've got to learn how to meet your emotional needs, and until a couple of weeks ago ~ I didn't even know what that term meant, I just know that I've been coming up short in doing so over the last three years!

 

Lets take this slow, go easy with it, give me time to do some reading, and learning. Give me some time to adapt and overcome my shortcomings. Give me the time to adjust. Lets do this for our DD ~ if not each other. If we don't ~ we're just going to find ourselves at the old folks home talkiing about our first, second and third marriages. Let's just slow down and take the time to learn what we need to learn about being married and in a relationship from each other ~ so that even if our marriage doesn't work out, we'll at least have acquired the skill set to make the next one work out.

[quiet1one1]

One quick question:

 

I will be going with my family to her final play performance, and I had planned on doing something special for her to show my support, even before all this. I like that she's in this play, even though it did take alot of time away from us, and we'd probably not be in this situation right now if she wasn't doing it, but she always thought I didn't support her enough. Yes, I complained about how much time it was taking, and always liked to know where she would be and who she'd be with at the cast parties. I shouldn't have been so untrusting, but what can I say, I'm a jealous guy when other people are spending more time with my wife than I am.

 

Would it be acceptable to buy her some flowers for her final performance? Is it too late to show her the support that she really deserved in the first place? I don't want to push her away more, or make it seem like I'm begging for her forgiveness.

 

I'll keep you posted about how this second week plays out and go from there...

 

You and I are in similar predicaments. I have decided that I will continue to be myself and treat my W as I always have - like I love and care for her. If it doesn't work, so be it.

[quiet1one1]

No I don't think so. Not long after our daughter was born, and we started having sex again, she got a very bad bladder infection. Pain like bladder stones. When asked what she could do to keep that from happening again, the doctor told her to make sure she goes to the bathroom and cleans herself well after sex, among other things. I think she has always kind of blamed sex as the cause of it, and that's kinda when it started. Not long after that, she had an IUD birth control put in, and it never did feel quite right. A lot of pain for her there, too. At first, we could both feel it during sex, and even after her doctor checked it and trimmed the string, she could always feel it, and made her very uncomfortable. Either her hormones were out of whack due to the IUD, or the combination of it and the infection created an aversion to sex for her.

 

That's cool. Just some food for thought.

[Gunny376]

As far as the up-coming show? Freaking "A" that's your opportunity to show you're supporting her interest and her? Make her feel like she just won the Academy Awards. If you can afford it, I'd even rent a limo etc ~ go all out. But then step back and let her bask in it with her friends.

 

As far as birth control? Where the **** is it written in stone that's the woman's responsibility. Don't be silly, put a condom on that Willie.

 

As for the jealousy over her doing her thing ~ and spending too much time with it ~ that's a lady-killer everytime. If your jealous, that's about you and your own insecurties, not her. That's your questioning you abilty to compete with any and all competion for her time, affection, etc. Man-up ~ damnit! There's no shortage of women, and there's no shortage of women looking for a good man that's got his act together.

 

Me? I'm with a woman that wants to go off and scrogg some other guy? Have at it! More power to ya! Have a nice forever the rest of your life without me! All that means is I've got to go and find myself someone ~ new!

 

Just make sure you "trade up" You had a Chevy? Get yourself a Lexus!

[Saxis]

As far as the up-coming show? Freaking "A" that's your opportunity to show you're supporting her interest and her? Make her feel like she just won the Academy Awards. If you can afford it, I'd even rent a limo etc ~ go all out. But then step back and let her bask in it with her friends.

 

As far as birth control? Where the **** is it written in stone that's the woman's responsibility. Don't be silly, put a condom on that Willie.

 

As for the jealousy over her doing her thing ~ and spending too much time with it ~ that's a lady-killer everytime. If your jealous, that's about you and your own insecurties, not her. That's your questioning you abilty to compete with any and all competion for her time, affection, etc. Man-up ~ damnit! There's no shortage of women, and there's no shortage of women looking for a good man that's got his act together.

 

Me? I'm with a woman that wants to go off and scrogg some other guy? Have at it! More power to ya! Have a nice forever the rest of your life without me! All that means is I've got to go and find myself someone ~ new!

 

Just make sure you "trade up" You had a Chevy? Get yourself a Lexus!

 

Thank-you again Gunny! As I've read in alot of your posts, you always bring some good points to light. In thinking, I'm trying to jump in the same boat as you, but I'm just still figuring out how to work a paddle, while you're firing up your 4-stroke outboard! (aren't bad analogies great!)

 

The last weak has shed a LOT of light on my shortcomings. I was doing very well at supporting her in the beginning (she even agreed), but I slipped back when she started lieing about what time she would be home, and wouldn't even bother to call and let me know if she was going to be late (we just got cell phones last month, too). All I asked was that she touch bases with me about where she'd be and for how long. That slipped into the jealousy a bit, and her lies didn't help. We both had faults there, and she agrees to that also. This is the first order of business in getting myself back on track. I feel I've learned alot in just a week.

 

About the birth control: don't fret, we also use condoms, because she is still afraid that she will get another infection if we don't. So she has a 5-year birth control, and we use condoms. We've only NOT used them about 2-3 times in the last 2 years, and that's only when she could jump in the shower/bath right after.

 

About her parents: Her real mom and dad were never together. Her mom moved her around alot, had 2 other kids, both with different dads, and eventually abandoned her on the streets when she was 12. Drugs, sleeping around, the works. She was in foster care until she graduated high school, and that's when her dad finally came into contact with her... after she turned 18 of course. I've always had my doubts what his intentions really were about all of that, and it's another area that I was a complete @ss about. Why would he wait so long to contact her when he had complete legal control over it? Her dad married another woman right after she was born, and had 2 more kids, and has been married for 20+ years, until now. Her step-mom is like her real mom now, even though she's only known her for a couple years. Step-mom has all the power and money in her family, so she'd have no problem taking in the wife and kid, but my wife said she doesn't want to take our daughter away from me, like her real mom did with her. Points for her! I do love her family as well. They are great people. I've never met or talked to her real mom, and she doesn't either any more. My wife went through alot of crap already, and she used to see me as the light of her life. I turned the light off myself, and I know that. Trust me when I say I've beaten myself up over and over again for causing her more anguish and hurt.

 

I don't believe we need a physical separation either, but keeping our distance for now and her going on vacation I see as a good thing. Her parents are definately getting divorced (her dad cheated), and they are even living together for now. I work in home care, and we have a very good therapist here, and I will probably be talking to him soon. I've mentioned this to my wife, and she agrees it would be a good idea. Not sure if she will be talking to anyone though. I would like us both to.

 

I especially like this piece:

"Look, your being married to me and being my wife, doesn't mean you can't be who you are and who you want to become, and do what you want and need to do with and in your own life. I love you not because I need you, I need you in my life because I love you! We got married young, and I know that I, if not both of us have got some things to learn about being married in general, but also in being married to one another. I've got to learn how to meet your emotional needs, and until a couple of weeks ago ~ I didn't even know what that term meant, I just know that I've been coming up short in doing so over the last three years!

 

Lets take this slow, go easy with it, give me time to do some reading, and learning. Give me some time to adapt and overcome my shortcomings. Give me the time to adjust. Lets do this for our DD ~ if not each other. If we don't ~ we're just going to find ourselves at the old folks home talkiing about our first, second and third marriages. Let's just slow down and take the time to learn what we need to learn about being married and in a relationship from each other ~ so that even if our marriage doesn't work out, we'll at least have acquired the skill set to make the next one work out.

 

I think I'll be studying and taking notes on this for the next time we sit down and have a talk about everything!

 

What is your opinion on having a little "date night" with her? She asked this morning if I wanted to go to the movies, as we both wanted to see Spidey3 in the theatre, and we probably won't have the kid again tonight.

 

Oh, and are you saying it's time for me to get rid of my beloved Camaro???

[sumdude]

My wife went through alot of crap already, and she used to see me as the light of her life. I turned the light off myself, and I know that. Trust me when I say I've beaten myself up over and over again for causing her more anguish and hurt.

 

Hey, wow your story sounds an awful lot like mine in some ways. Your wife and my STBX have a lot in common too. Messed up childhoods, families, abandonment and who knows what abuse issues...

 

Stop beating yourself up. Maybe you tried to rescue her? You had nothing to do with her past. Maybe your mistakes helped lead to this some by triggering something in her... but all that baggage of hers was already there. You did your best, made your mistakes ... learn.

[Gunny376]

Date nite?

 

Its like Vince Lombardi said, "What we've got to do is get back to the fundamentals!"

 

Take it easy ~ take it slow, and get back to the fundamnetals.

 

What I'm saying is that she's not got to give being her to be with you, and you've not got to give up being you to be with her, but you both need to learn how to be married to each other.

 

That's an all day chore for anyone ~ but ultimately for any marriage to survive its what you've got to do!

 

Lady Jane and Mz Pixie and their DH's are one of the few that have worked past the crisis point you and the DW are at. And from what I've read its because they're strong, intellegent, independent women. MzP would still be married to her first husband ~ had he just sat up and listened to her. She was waving flags, setting off flares, screaming and shouting. LJ just flat out told her DH she doesn't play!

 

I've not been successful because I've not found a woman such as LJ or MzP, that was capable nor willing to do the necessary work to make it work. And your wife might lack what it takes? And you might be "on board" but the wife may never be?

 

I'm not in on the market ~ working on other things that set the foundation for being in a good solid relationship, but now that I've found LS, I know that I need a good, solid, independent, intellegent woman that doesn't need a man ~ but wants a good solid independent man.

 

I could be wrong ~ but I don't think your marriage is over. I do think you've got a lot of things to learn about marriage, and a lot of things to learn about how to be married to the woman your married to.

 

And yes, your wife has issues that she needs to work through ~ but hey? We all do.

[Saxis]

This is turning out to be a roller coaster of a day! My boss just got back from vacation, and I just had a nice talk with him about the whole situation. He's a very good friend to me, and has helped me with alot of things. I work in Home Care as the IT System Administrator, and we have a couple very good social workers in our staff. I'm the youngest person that works for the agency, at 25. Out of the blue, one of our social workers asks how young I was when I got married. I'm thinking "Holy Crap!, What does she know already!?!?". Turns out she knows nothing, but knows someone that is looking to get married at 20. She asks me what I think, and I say "Don't do it! Not after what I found out this week!" and proceed to give her a quick rundown. She recommends that I talk to our other therapist, which I've already thought of doing. I mentioned this in a post or two above. Anyway, I had mentioned it to the wife already, and she thought it might be good too. I don't think the wife will want to talk to him yet, but it will probably be good for me, at least to get a professional analysis of the situation, if not to help figure out my shortcomings. Eventually I'd like for him to hear both sides of the story though. It just seems right...

 

Then the wife calls me to let me know she's going to her girlfriend's for lunch (her workout buddy), and to ask if I had enough cash for the movie tonight, and that she'll get $20, and to have me just pick her up at work.

 

It's crazy... my mind is a blur and I actually feel pretty good about it for a change!

[Saxis]

I've been searching for that list of books you mentioned, and having trouble locating a full list of any. In looking, I've found a few here and there...

 

"Five Languages of Love"

"Her Needs, His Needs"

"Alpha Male"

"Light Her Fire"

 

Any others?

 

The mother-in-law sent us a couple marriage books a long time ago. No idea what they were, but I remember the wife asking about reading them. I backed out, but she hasn't picked them up either. If only we knew then what we know now! Why did I have to be such an @ss!!

[Saxis]

Well.... "Date" night went.... OK. We did sit next to each other, and she kept asking me questions throughout the movie as usual. Then we got back home and talked for a little bit. I gave her somewhat of a rendition of what I quoted from Gunny in post #16. Told her what I thought some of my shortcomings were, like the jealousy and unsupportiveness, and told her I was sorry, and that I will work on it. She pretty much said, "We both have shortcomings, and yes, there is a lot to learn about marriage, and we should try to learn to protect our daughter." She also said that she felt a lot of sexual pressure from me, and by keeping our distance she felt more comfortable around me. "A lot less stress." She said she woke up last night and cried, which I've hardly see her do at all. Then she just said goodnight and went to bed....

 

I have no idea what to think of it all. Maybe it's not an aversion to sex from the experiences she had.... Maybe it was just me? I would never want her to feel uncomfortable around me because of that, but alas, it is yet another area that I have failed in.

 

I started reading "10 Stupid Things Couples Do To Mess Up Their Relationships" by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. She's got a lot of books out, mostly for women. I've only got through Chapter 1. Some of it was insightful, but with alot of repeat. Wife saw it and said she was going to start reading one of the others we have.

[Saxis]

I started reading "10 Stupid Things Couples Do To Mess Up Their Relationships" by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. She's got a lot of books out, mostly for women. I've only got through Chapter 1. Some of it was insightful, but with alot of repeat. Wife saw it and said she was going to start reading one of the others we have.

 

The first chapter is about secrecy/privacy/honesty. I feel like this was a big issue with my wife. A few months ago, she kissed a friend in a bar. Very drunk, very dumb, and she knows it was a mistake. The guy is married with 3 kids, and I don't think his wife knows yet. My wife let this slip out to my brother's fiance 2 months later (again when she was drunk), and she told my brother... My brother kinda blackmailed my wife into telling. "You tell him, or I will!", type of thing. So she did end up telling me about it, and I confirmed with someone who was at the bar that it was fairly innocent. I believed it, and forgave her, but not completely. I still had some trust issues because of it. I aslo found out that she had ordered something for herself, and she told me that it was a gift from her step-mom. There's also been alot of little things, like telling me she would be home at a certain time, and then not bothering to call when she's 2 hours late.

 

She said she felt scared to tell me things. How do we earn back each other's trust? She did say that she feels like she can tell me more things since we've kept our distance, and this is after only 1 week. She also agreed to talk to the therapist at my work, and even before she leaves for California. I'm going to try setting it up with him if he makes it into the office today. I know him a little. He's a great person, and is supposedly very good with troubled marriages.

[sumdude]

Again I see so many similarities between you and your wife and myself and the STBX... You still have a chance to save it where I missed the boat before it sank.

 

Lay off the pressure for sex. It's not really a need ... it's a desire. You can't force desire. With a woman ... it must be something given freely and pressure free. Once you start resenting her saying no the vicious cycle begins. For example if you take her out for a fine dinner and buy a gift expecting something in return... suddenly it's a transaction. Not very romantic if you look at it that way is it? All about expectations.

 

My ex would also start being somewhat deceptive when she felt stressed, pressured or under watch. Part of how she grew up, bad coping mechanism. Once she felt like I didn't trust her ... she started acting in ways that made me more distrustful. Again the vicious cycle and self fulfilling prophesy.

 

Don't try to be her analyst or fix anything for her. If she wants to talk about problems with you ... just listen, imagine duct tape over your mouth. Only give advice is she specifically asks for it. Even then be very laid back about it. No one likes being lectured or told what to do like a child.

 

The trick about jealousy ... it's fear. The cutting edge is that the more you fear something the more likely it is that fear will come true. You will subconscioulsy make it reality....

 

I learned this stuff the hard way .. hope you won't have to.

 

You want to be two indepedent people who choose to spend your lives together.

[Saxis]

This is what I'm quickly realizing... I hope I am not too late.

 

Right now I'm starting to feel a lot of anger again. I just checked our bank statement. She knows we are kind of on a tight budget, even though we do have a little extra money right now. My goal is to actually save money. We have talked about buying a house before, but it seems she has a need to spend anything extra we have. Yesterday she called and told me she was going over to her friends house, because she was making lunch there. On the bank statement, I see 2 withdrawals at restaurants for yesterday... I really hate being lied to, and this is getting rediculous. I go home for lunch everyday, because I know how expensive it is to eat out all the time. She doesn't care or even bother to realize how much money she wastes... It seems so selfish, especially when I am working my @ss off to provide for us!

 

Edit: I sent her a quick, calm message about this and was glad to find out that she at least didn't lie to me about where she was going, but that the places she ate at were from a coupld days ago. She even agreed with me that it was getting too expensive, and she won't be doing it anymore.

[Saxis]

On Tuesday I talked to the therapist. We're gonna see him next Saturday morning. He also thought that a separation was not in order, but he hasn't heard my wife's side of it yet. He said we should keep talking to each other and spending time together, and with our daughter's birthday this week, we should concentrate on that for now.

 

Our daughter's birthday was yesterday, and we both slept in, took the day off work, and then went to my parents for a small birthday party. It was fun. My parents are building a new business, and they got pulled away from the house for a bit, and the wife and I played cribbage together. It was just a pretty relaxing day, and we got along very well. When we got home, our daughter was back in her bed, and my wife slept in our bed again... She wasn't going to at first, but I promised her that I didn't mind, and that I wouldn't do anything to make her uncomfortable. Somewhere in the middle of the night, she reached over and grabbed my hand. It was very nice, but I don't think she even realized it happened, or if she'll even remember. She's always done strange things in her sleep and not notice... If she does remember, I hope she remembers who initiated it, too....