I guess it's time...

[sumdude]

Relax and go with the flow. Have no expectations ... none at all. Take the pressure off totally. If you have no expectations you can't be let down then get upset and start the cycle again. You're both doing the best you can in the current situation. Two imperfect human beings who make mistakes and have a past that causes you do think and do things differently. Try to observe rather than react ... listen rather than speak ... if you don't understand what you're hearing lightly ask for clarification.... NEVER argue with feelings, they are not rational but they are real. It doesn't matter who is right when it comes to feelings, they just are.

[Saxis]

Relax and go with the flow. Have no expectations ... none at all. Take the pressure off totally. If you have no expectations you can't be let down then get upset and start the cycle again. You're both doing the best you can in the current situation. Two imperfect human beings who make mistakes and have a past that causes you do think and do things differently. Try to observe rather than react ... listen rather than speak ... if you don't understand what you're hearing lightly ask for clarification.... NEVER argue with feelings, they are not rational but they are real. It doesn't matter who is right when it comes to feelings, they just are.

 

You're right about this... She said that she's been very stressed lately. Not with just what's going on with us, but all the other things too. She's got the play going on, working alot of split shifts, planning our daughter's birthday party (which she never botherd to include me in, and I got a bit mad at her about, which was a mistake... probably just stressed her more), she's been a little sick with a chest cold, she's got a bad molar which has been giving her headaches.... the list goes on and on... and then there's our situation to throw on top of it all. I've tried to get her to talk about it, but she says she just hasn't had time to think, and doesn't have answers right now. I think I'm still pushing and pressuring her too much. A lot of her busy schedule will be toning down in the next couple of weeks, and then she's going on vacation. It's hard to just let this sit so long. After fights, we've always let ourselves cool down for a couple hours, then talk through them. I see this as my chance to show her that I'm ready to work out my issues, and I've talked to her about what I think those are. I don't think she's quite ready though. She keeps trying to put most of the blame on herself, but I keep trying to tell her that alot of my feelings are insecurities. I should not be expecting her to deal with this all right now. She's already got a lot on her plate. But then I have to wonder: I think that a separation is the most selfish thing she could do, putting herself before me, which is pretty much the cause of the whole thing (this is what she blames herself for, too)... I guess the vicious cycle just has to be broken somewhere, and that's her taking a step back. That's how I'm trying to look at it... No one really started it, or caused it... we were both being selfish, only listening to what we wanted for ourselves, instead of each other.

[Gunny376]

Just wanted to let you know!

 

I'm looking for the "book listing" its just that I'm working a 70 hour week.

 

There's that and the fact, I'm not you, and you're not me.

 

To be honest, I question if you could handle my current reality as it exsists? Not that you're weak ~ but that I'm older and more mature because of my years on the planet!

 

Its taking a lot of azz whippings from Mr. Reality to get where I am!

 

Make sure you remeber that!

 

Do or Die! Either get busy living or get busy dying! Just that plain ~ just that simple!

[Saxis]

Just wanted to let you know!

 

I'm looking for the "book listing" its just that I'm working a 70 hour week.

 

There's that and the fact, I'm not you, and you're not me.

 

To be honest, I question if you could handle my current reality as it exsists? Not that you're weak ~ but that I'm older and more mature because of my years on the planet!

 

Its taking a lot of azz whippings from Mr. Reality to get where I am!

 

Make sure you remeber that!

 

Do or Die! Either get busy living or get busy dying! Just that plain ~ just that simple!

 

Thanks Gunny! Sounds like you need to slow down! I'm still reading the first book, "10 Stupid Things Couples Do To Screw Up Their Relationships", and I gotta say... It's... humbling. In every chapter, I can find things that we're doing to hurt each other. I've been marking pages so I can go back over them to remind myself. The wife asked how it was, and I said it was pretty good, so she's going to read it when I'm done.

[ilmw]

Thanks Gunny! Sounds like you need to slow down! I'm still reading the first book, "10 Stupid Things Couples Do To Screw Up Their Relationships", and I gotta say... It's... humbling. In every chapter, I can find things that we're doing to hurt each other. I've been marking pages so I can go back over them to remind myself. The wife asked how it was, and I said it was pretty good, so she's going to read it when I'm done.

 

I gotta tell you... you are lucky your W is willing to read the book after you... it is a good sign she is willing to work at this

 

But.. what ever you do... never pressure her to read the things you are reading.. The fact she said she wanted to... is great:)

[sumdude]

I gotta tell you... you are lucky your W is willing to read the book after you... it is a good sign she is willing to work at this

 

But.. what ever you do... never pressure her to read the things you are reading.. The fact she said she wanted to... is great:)

 

Absolutly, no expectations and no pressure. One book I read described a marriage like two people in a canoe. If one person adjusts thier position the other will have to adjust too or the thing flips over. It's a balancing act. Shound like she has a lot of outside activies and pressures right now. Do you have things in your life to keep you busy outside of the marriage?

 

People often get lost in marriage. They lose some parts of themselves and start to feel resentful about it. The may end up blaming the other even if it is misplaced. If you two are at that point it is possible to find self discovery without breaking the bond, a challenge but possible. Still, you two will also have to find some activies you both enjoy and do them together.

[dbtmarley]

Saxis I really do not have anything valuable to offer, I just wanted to let you know that I admire your determination and willingness to make your marriage work. Your thread and the advice of the posters in it has really made me aware of some things that I have issues with.

 

Thanks and I hope things work out for you and your wife.

 

Thomas

[Saxis]

... Shound like she has a lot of outside activies and pressures right now. Do you have things in your life to keep you busy outside of the marriage?

 

People often get lost in marriage. They lose some parts of themselves and start to feel resentful about it. The may end up blaming the other even if it is misplaced. If you two are at that point it is possible to find self discovery without breaking the bond, a challenge but possible. Still, you two will also have to find some activies you both enjoy and do them together.

 

We really have nothing that we do together... I get together with a group of friends to play a game when we can all make it, and we have that scheduled, same time every week, usually Sundays and/or Tuesday/Wednesday (not more than twice/week, and usually only once) from 5:30 or so to around 9:30, and I work M-F, 8-4. My weeks are pretty much planned out, knowing exactly where and what times I got things going on, except for game night. We plan on playing, but we end up canceling a lot. Wife is complete opposite... Work schedule is erradic (she's quitting in a couple weeks though) with morning shifts usually 8-11:30, and evening shifts from 4-:830, friends call her and she takes off to do things on a whim. Her time at the theatre is scheduled, but there's just a lot of it... Practices 3 times a week from 7-11 at night usually. When performances start, they're from 5pm - 2am (including cast parties), and they do a pick-up practice in the middle of the week. So you get the picture... one of us is busy almost every day of the week... I cover 2 days, she gets the other 5, pretty much. We thought our schedule was great, because we haven't really had to put our daughter in daycare. She goes to work with mom AT the YMCA daycare for a couple hours a day, and then I have her from 4pm to bedtime... It's pretty much joint custody already.

 

I was getting very angry at how much time she was spending with other people. Never at home, and espicially not while I was there. When I'm at work and she's not, she always had to be running around town, visiting friends, working out at the Y... I'd get home, she'd have to go to work, or the theatre... When we were home together, she had to catch up on her addiction to about 5 different TV shows, which she recorded because she was never home. She'd stay up till 12am every night watching them, and I'd just go to bed. I bought her an $800 excercise machine last month for her birthday and mother's day, because she said she spent way to much time at the Y with work and working out (she has lost over 50 pounds though, and I'm extremely proud of her!). She thought it would be nice to be at home, but I haven't seen her use it yet...

 

I probably make our schedules sound WAY more busy than they are. If we tried, we could probably make a good 15 hours/week to spend together, even while she's doing the play. We just never made it a priority.

[sumdude]

I probably make our schedules sound WAY more busy than they are. If we tried, we could probably make a good 15 hours/week to spend together, even while she's doing the play. We just never made it a priority.

 

Wow, well there's a pretty big issue there from the sounds of it. From your description of things you live like roommates not lovers. If you don't make time to connect with each other then where's the relationship? Bring it up in counciling .... without sounding angry or whiny. Think of it all as a puzzle to solve rather than a debate to be waged with anyone winning.

[Saxis]

Saxis I really do not have anything valuable to offer, I just wanted to let you know that I admire your determination and willingness to make your marriage work. Your thread and the advice of the posters in it has really made me aware of some things that I have issues with.

 

Thanks and I hope things work out for you and your wife.

 

Thomas

 

Thanks. I still feel like I haven't made much progress... I think I have an idea of where I need the most work, and that's really all I can do. I only wish I knew if she was thinking the same thing. She knows where I stand, but I still have no idea what her plans are.

[sumdude]

Thanks. I still feel like I haven't made much progress... I think I have an idea of where I need the most work, and that's really all I can do. I only wish I knew if she was thinking the same thing. She knows where I stand, but I still have no idea what her plans are.

 

All you can do is work on yourself and your life. Either she'll come around eventually or not. Be prepared for any outcome and know you'll be OK whatever happens. Don't ask her questions about it, don't try to reason with her about it ... let her be for a while and live your life. Time will tell...

[Saxis]

Wow, well there's a pretty big issue there from the sounds of it. From your description of things you live like roommates not lovers. If you don't make time to connect with each other then where's the relationship? Bring it up in counciling .... without sounding angry or whiny. Think of it all as a puzzle to solve rather than a debate to be waged with anyone winning.

 

Yep, and I have suggested a few times in the last couple years that we should do more things together. Then she would ask if I wanted to go for a walk, or play a game, and I would always say no. I thought they never sounded like fun things to do. I realize now that it really wouldn't have mattered what we were doing... spending time with her is what I actually enjoyed anway. Heck, sometimes when we'd go places, I would purposely cause arguments and strain, just to prove to her that it wasn't fun. It's no wonder she was ready for a break...

[sumdude]

Yep, and I have suggested a few times in the last couple years that we should do more things together. Then she would ask if I wanted to go for a walk, or play a game, and I would always say no. I thought they never sounded like fun things to do. I realize now that it really wouldn't have mattered what we were doing... spending time with her is what I actually enjoyed anway. Heck, sometimes when we'd go places, I would purposely cause arguments and strain, just to prove to her that it wasn't fun. It's no wonder she was ready for a break...

 

it's a good thing you've realized that in yourself. So all you can do is show her with your actions from now on. Don't bother promising you've changed or digging up the past much. Talk is cheap. All you have any personal control over is your own actions and reactions. For example with money ... when you first get PO'd take a few minutes and ask yourself why she might be acting this way? Fear of your reactions from past expereince?

[Gunny376]

Ok, here's the reading list. I orginally posted it for a guy that was trying to move on. You can pick and choose from it, but sooner or later, all of it will come in handy:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1190163#post1190163

 

I've not been posting to your thread, although I have been keeping up with it.

 

Its pretty eveident what the situation rep here is. There's a possiblity that you and she can step back from the brink. But, as Sumdude has pointed out ~ your trying to beg, plead, persuade ~ none of that is gong to work ~ take a fool's advice on that one.

 

About all you can do is keep the comm (communication) up and keep that pretty neutral right now. This little gals got a full plate already and she's pretty young to have that much going on. Her brain housing group is trying to re-boot, and find a way to cope and deal with all that's going on in her life. At 23 she's dealing with things that, people 10 years older are having a hard time coping with.

 

Sumdude is right ~ no pressure right now ~ and that includes no pressure on saving the marriage and the relationship. All you need to be doing right now is learning and growing and getting what you need to cope and deal with the situation.

 

It doesn't sound as though she's 100% committed toward a permanent seperation. It sounds as though she's got doubts about you, the marriage, herself, her life. She's very much saying, "Back off ~ I can't breath!" and when she tells you she's not had the time to think, she's telling you the truth.

 

The biggest thing you need to do right now ~ is just chill, and work on identifying your weaknesses and shortcomings and working on them. The number one of which is that you've got a lot to learn about living life, and with being married.

 

What you and the wife need to do is to "re-boot" and recognize that there's a Hell of a lot more to this marriage business than just saying "I do!" moving in together and having babies.

 

One of the key things that you need to do is understand that a significant part of being a woman is "connecting and relating" Guess what you've been falling down on the job on?

 

Those walks, going to the park, playing games together, picnics, going shopping if nothing more than window shopping ~ those were about spending time together and connecting.

 

Marriage is like a lot of things in life ~ you can be either pro-active or re-active. Pro-active is much more cheaper and easier than being re-active. You can buy a new car and be pro-active in its maintenance, or you can drive the Hell out it, and be stunned and shocked when it cost you an arm and leg to keep it running.

 

Same with your health. You can smoke like a chimmley, and drink like a fish, or you can eat fresh fruits and vegetables and some regular exercise.

 

Same with relationship's? As with the above you can be pro-active or you can be re-active. In the beginning E=r, in which E = a great amount of effort, and r = little results. But in time, as with most human endevors, e=R, in which little effort results in tremendous results!

 

To be honest with you? From your posts? You've been acting like a horse's azz with this little gal, and she's been carrying the blunt and burdern of the marriage. She's been struggling to hold it together for a long time. She's been trying to adapt, overcome, and improvise for a very long time. She's just about at her wits end ~ she's running out of ways to adapt, improvise and overcome. "Charlie's in the wire!" She ripe for an affair. The right guy comes along? You need to bone up on meeting her EM's ~ emotional needs.

 

She doesn't sound like high maintenance at all. She sounds as though she just want to connect with someone.

 

And, I don't think she's got that big an issue with her past. I could be wrong. But, its been my experience that I'm not always right, I'm seldom wrong.

 

She needs you to hug her and hold her ~ knowing that doesn't mean SEX! She needs your un-conditional love. She needs to know that she's more to you than just a VLSS ~ (Vaginal Life Support System). She needs to know that you love her as person ~ a human being not just as a woman.

 

She needs to know and understand that just because you touch her, hold her hand, stroke her hair, hug her, hold her ~ its not because you're wanting sex ~ but because you love her.

 

Dance with her just to dance!

 

Hold her just to hold her!

 

Kiss her just to kiss her!

 

Hold her face in your hand and stare into her eyes for a minute! (Try it! LOL A minute is a long time!) then say, "I Love you! I'm in love with you!" and then walk a way!)

 

Kiss her for a full minute each night when you come home, and then walk a way!

 

A good relationship and marriage is made up of making love in "two minute" incriments! You want sex on Friday? Start on Monday!

 

Be spontaneous and un-predictable. I use to come in throw back the rug, put some dance music on, go in the kitchen, turn off the damn stove, and drag my GF into the living room and just dance. She'd say, "What about Supper?" "F*** supper, you're all I need to live!" Then take her out to eat!

 

Hey, the dogs were always happy with what we threw out to them on those nights!

[sumdude]

Listen to Gunny. I'm still a disciple at this point. He's learned things the hard way. Hard lessons learned stick! You have an opportunity to learn from others mistakes here.

[myorangecrush]

(I’m not in a position to give advice, but maybe what I say can offer a little more insight to the other side. So take this all with a grain of salt.)

Hey, wow your story sounds an awful lot like mine in some ways. Your wife and my STBX have a lot in common too. Messed up childhoods, families, abandonment and who knows what abuse issues...

 

We'll I'm a guy and I fit this description pretty well. I fit it all the way up to being the one initiating "a break from one another". Have either of you (sumdude & saxis) heard of "self-sabotage?" It's when someone has had so many things in life taken away from them as kids and beyond that they start doing it to themselves? We are not used to consistency although we crave it. It's closely linked to "Fear of Success" and having a personality that tends to move from one interest to another We then to get fairly good at something and drop it out of the blue. I'm aware of this and that's why I came here asking (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t120394/) if how I was feeling was right.

 

I feel like I can relate to how your wives feel and all I can say is that no matter how confident we look from your perspective, we are in pain and if you want to keep the relationship, the worst thing you can do is let us go (or let us go too far). We will hurt, but we are adept to coping with changes and moving on. Yes we are strong enough to get over you, but we are not strong enough (most of the time) to just leave. Be a regular presence in our lives and we will be reluctant to let go. If you are lucky enough, we will find ourselves before it is too late. I know that’s what I want.

 

On a side note: We love nostalgia. And that’s where we can learn to rewire that bad connection.

 

About all you can do is keep the comm up and keep that pretty neutral right now. [He/She] got a full plate already and [he’s/she’s] pretty young to have that much going on. [His/Her] brain housing group is trying to re-boot, and find a way to cope and deal with all that's going on in her life.

 

It doesn't sound as though she's 100% committed toward a permanent separation. It sounds as though she's got doubts about you, the marriage, herself, her life. She's very much saying, "Back off ~ I can't breath!" and when she tells you she's not had the time to think, she's telling you the truth.

 

The biggest thing you need to do right now ~ is just chill, and work on identifying your weaknesses and shortcomings and working on them. The number one of which is that you've got a lot to learn about living life, and with being married.

 

What you and the wife need to do is to "re-boot" and recognize that there's a Hell of a lot more to this marriage business than just saying "I do!" moving in together and having babies.

 

One of the key things that you need to do is understand that a significant part of being a woman is "connecting and relating" Guess what you've been falling down on the job on?

 

(As a guy) This was my complaint against my wife. So IMO gunny is pretty right on.

 

She doesn't sound like high maintenance at all. She sounds as though she just want to connect with someone.

 

I’m pretty sure gunny is right here too. (Maybe I’m a rare guy in the situation similar to your wife. I want to connect again with my SO.) She wants to feel that connection with you and she would like that more than any other option. If it’s not you, then she has begun to wonder about other people and it’s only a matter of time before she does seek to connect with someone.

 

Be careful how you connect, the idea gunny spoke about reactive v.s. proactive comes to play here. We are also skeptics and will think more than not you are doing things you don’t normally do as a reaction. Just do things that she was used to early one. Don’t go to too far over the top. Play with in your normal range.

 

(i.e. “I was at the store today and this gift/card reminded me of you. Remember that time when we went to NAME A PLACE HERE)

 

and there's some Joker that's she more emotionally connected with or fantasying about that's got her brain housing group all screwed up, and her head in a "fog" (Personally, I prefer "her head up her azz ~ but that's me)

This almost what happened to me. I decided to cut the connections the best I could, but it was enough attention to make me question everything in my marriage. It doesn’t take long to get a connection going with someone else. Even the dreaded “the grass might greener on the other side” idea that gunny brought up comes into play.

 

As for me I am well aware of all of this and it is still difficult. I hate feeling this way and would do anything to have not begun to let this seep into my marriage. We had issues that we needed to work out, but this was the worst way possible for them to come to light IMO. I’m not sure your wife is that aware of how she let this happen, but I bet you that she is not stupid. She has an idea when and where these feelings have started the whole “why isn’t my marriage as good as it used to be” Question.

 

FYI: There is a big part of me still willing to “just let go and move on.” I don’t like that feeling, but I have to be honest about it’s existence.

[sumdude]

 

 

I feel like I can relate to how your wives feel and all I can say is that no matter how confident we look from your perspective, we are in pain and if you want to keep the relationship, the worst thing you can do is let us go (or let us go too far). We will hurt, but we are adept to coping with changes and moving on. Yes we are strong enough to get over you, but we are not strong enough (most of the time) to just leave. Be a regular presence in our lives and we will be reluctant to let go. If you are lucky enough, we will find ourselves before it is too late. I know that’s what I want.

 

>>>>>>

 

FYI: There is a big part of me still willing to “just let go and move on.” I don’t like that feeling, but I have to be honest about it’s existence.

 

Sorry to hijack this thread with my stuff. Looks like my situation has gone past the point of no return. She moved out without warning in January .. a month later told me she didn't want to be married anymore. Didn't want the 'responsibility' of a relationship and was 'setting me free' to find someone who could love me the way I deserved .. whatever that means.

 

here's my thread if you're interested ... it's damn long .. I'm a bit obsessive sometimes

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t110597/

[Saxis]

Wow, lots of action here in the last couple of days. I was just too busy to post. Lots of good things happened this weekend! We are sleeping together consistently now.

 

On Friday night, she had a play performance, and she called around 11 PM and said she would be spending the night at one of the ladies' houses for a "girls' night". She had mentioned it earlier, so knew I was OK with it. I stayed up and finished the book I was reading until 1 AM or so.

 

On Saturday, she came home around 11 AM, and we were supposed to meet with the counselor at noon. He called and was going to be late anway. Then she starts telling me about going to several bars for karaoke and drinks, which kinda pissed me off since she assured me it was just a girl's night sleepover at this lady's house. We talked about it. I didn't let my anger take control this time. I just explained that I would like her to let me know where she is when the plans change like that, even if it's late. She was pretty hung over. The counselor finally got there, and we kinda explained how we thought all this came about. He recomended that I get a full physical, and thought I might have some depression. Wife is going to go with me, appt today at 4:00. It was hard to hear some of the things she said... He told us that we'd have to be each other's most important person to worth through this, and had us look at each other and say it. She couldn't, and said that our daughter was her most important person. It wasn't something that I didn't already know, but just hard to hear. She did say that I was still her best friend, but she didn't want a "marital" relationship. I was devastated... I took that as she didn't want to be married at all. Later she explained that what she meant was just about sex, and that she didn't feel comfortable saying it like that in front of him. I think he understood what she meant, though, even though I took it the wrong way. Preparing for the worst I guess... He said he thought I was over-reacting to her behavior, about not calling or telling me when her plans change, going to bars and taking drinks from other guys, even kissing another guy. In everything else I've read so far, this is not acceptable behavior, as it's what could really start an affair. I tried to tell him that it's not that I think she would cheat on me, but that she puts herself in those situations without any regard to my feelings. We discovered that she was still holding on to some things too. When we first found out that we were pregnant, in a worried response, we talked about alternatives. She considered adoption, and I brought up abortion. Of course she wasn't even going to consider abortion. We eventually decided that we would raise our child, TOGETHER. We were already living together, and moved into a bigger house to prepare. She started worrying about having the baby out of wedlock, and pushed me to get married before she was born. I was hesitant about this at first, and after some hard thinking agreed. After all, we had planned on getting married eventually. We got married almost exactly 1 month before the birth. My wife has always felt that she "forced" me into our marriage by deciding to keep our daughter. I have re-assured my wife countless times that I don't regret any of our decisions. I love my wife, I love my daughter, I've been a good father and provider for us, and the counselor felt that my wife really needed to let those feelings go. He said my response to the pregnancy was pretty much the normal "guy" response, out of fear and being out of control. I agree with that! We both broke down after the session, but we were there for each other, and talked for a little while longer, explaining things we said a little more. We agreed that we should just start all over again, just being friends; no expectations, no pressure - everything that you all have suggested here already. It was her final play performance that night, and my family and I were all going to it. They came early for dinner, so we had to pull ourselves together before they got there. We decided that we should spend more time together as part of this process, so I was either going to the cast party with her, or we could do something by ourselves. I had planned to stop and get her something special on the way, but my parents insisted that we all pile into one car. It worked out well anyway, as there was no parking and I could then just get a ride with the wife to the party or whatever. She did really well! My parents took the kid for the night again, but she was so tired and still kinda sick afterwards, that we decided to just go home. We got some ice cream, rented a comedy, and just crashed on the couch while I rubbed her feet, because her stage shoes hurt. Didn't even make it through the movie before we were ready for bed. I apologized for being such a pain about the play, and told her I had wanted to do something special for her last performance, and planned on at least getting some flowers. She cried, thanked, and hugged me... I still feel like I failed her, but she seemed very grateful for the thought.

 

On Sunday, we slept in, got up at about 9:00 and started getting ready for our daughter's birthday party. I made sure to get myself involved. It was mostly ready to go (my wife's been planning for months), and we had a lot of time to kill. Since 2:00 was a long time to wait for lunch (the party), we decided to go do something fun together, and went out for coffee at Denny's. Ate a light lunch, light conversation, laughing, reminding each other to stay positive... We still had time, so went across the street to do bowl a couple games. Then we hit the party, I helped her get things set up, and it went absolutely perfect. She seemed very greatful for my help with the party. She gave me a big hug and even kissed my cheek. The first in two weeks. We spent the rest of the evening with our daughter, played some cribbage after she went to bed, and kept right on having a good time until bed.

 

On Monday, we slept in till 9 again, and I made us breakfast and some blended coffee drinks with ice cream that she really likes, rubbed her feet again, we watched some TV and played some more cribbage while our daughter played with her new birthday toys. Since it was my grandparents' last day in town, we had made plans to go there for dinner. I did a quick workout (which I also just started back up again this weekend), took my shower and got ready to go. After the wife showered, she was looking through the closet for clothes to wear. She found a new dress that she had bought a while back and had never worn. It was kinda dressy for dinner at the parents, but I told her it looked great and recomended that she wear it for the day. I changed and dressed up a little to match it, gave the kid a quick bath and put her in a matching red dress while the wife did her makeup and hair. It was fun... we haven't done that for a long time. Man did she look gorgeous, and I let her know it!! The rest of the day went great too... we played more cribbage with my grandparents, ate dinner, then we all played 10-point Pitch, guys vs. girls (Girls wooped us good!). We took some pictures of our daughter with the great-grandparents, and got a quick picture of the family (wife, daughter and me) dressed up. That's also something we haven't really done. On the way home, I asked her if I could hold her hand, and she seemed kind of hesitant at first, but agreed. We came up to a stop sign, and she had to shift, so that was the end of that. It was kind of awkward and uncomfortable. I started feeling kind of sick on the way home, and was sick when we got there. I don't know if it was nerves, or something I ate... We talked a little in bed, and I asked her about holding hands in the car. She said she was just uncomfortable driving a stick at the same time, and assured me that it wasn't because of our situation. I said it was uncomfortable for me, because I wasn't really sure how it would make her feel, and I was afraid to ruin our good weekend. She then offered to sleep on the couch for the night, and I told her that being together is more comfortable than being away. I also asked and made sure she was comfortable with me rubbing her feet, because I've just been kinda doing it. After talking about it, she asked that I slide over and hold her for a while. She said she was holding back physically because she didn't want to give me mixed feelings, and that she felt she was coming up short because of all the nice things I was doing for her. I assured her that it was ME who was getting all the enjoyment by finally trying to be a good husband to her, and that she owed me nothing. Just like Gunny said:

 

She needs you to hug her and hold her ~ knowing that doesn't mean SEX! She needs your un-conditional love. She needs to know that she's more to you than just a VLSS ~ (Vaginal Life Support System). She needs to know that you love her as person ~ a human being not just as a woman.

 

She needs to know and understand that just because you touch her, hold her hand, stroke her hair, hug her, hold her ~ its not because you're wanting sex ~ but because you love her.

 

This morning, I had some spare time before work and she was awake, so I gave her a quick shoulder rub, trying to work out a huge knot she had. When it was time to leave, I gave her a hug, kissed her cheek and told her to have a good day. It seems this is a comfortable arrangement for both of us now. We can still be somewhat physical without sexual pressure, and it seems to be working for both of us. We just had a great weekend, TOGETHER! It blows my mind!

 

This is getting insanely long, but I thought I should post and let everyone know that things are getting much better, and to thank everyone for the support! I'll respond to individuals later, when I have a little more time.

[Saxis]

Well, the doctor didn't have much to say... He didn't have time to do a full physical, but he gave me a trial of Lexapro and sent me in for some blood work. Said I should feel the difference in about 5 days, and they would either make me want to kill myself, or make me feel better. Woopee!

[Saxis]

Been on the anti-depressants for 2 weeks now, and I think they are working! Took the wife and kid to the airport yesterday, and they'll be gone for about 3 weeks at her parents' house. We were doing much better the last couple weeks. Still keeping our space for the most part, but we were giving each other hugs, talking and doing things together daily. We kissed for the first time at the airport yesterday. Just a peck, and it didn't feel awkward or pressured, so that seems like progress. She bought me a new Relic watch as an early Father's Day gift. She tried to get my old Relic fixed that she bought me for our first X-mas as a couple, but it would've cost about the same.

 

Other than that, I'm just trying to keep my mind focused on other things, so I don't fall back into the same rut. I think the vacation will do us good, but we'll see...

[Saxis]

Very bad news... She's been in California now visiting her parents for over 2 weeks, and today wrote me an e-mail saying she just no longer wants to be married, and that she wants to move to Cali. This of course presents a problem with our 3 year old daughter. We have IMed about it a little bit, and we might agree to have her go there for a few months and stay married, and see where things are at. I am so lost right now, but it kind of feels good to hear her tell me the truth for a change. Maybe now I will be able to move on...

[Saxis]

What a fricken nightmare! We are definitely not going to stay married. This woman is crazy and absolutely out of control. I found out that she's lied to me about one of the credit cards, and she racked up $2,200 on it. We also owe $600 on an exercise machine she bought, and she spent over $700 on vacation in California. She threatened that if I didn't pay for half of the debt and all of her California trip, that she would take me to court for everything I have. Then she does a 180 flip and apologizes for threatening me and that she doesn't want to do that to me. We were going to agree to take this to mediation and work out a solution, but now that the gloves are off, I think I need to seek some legal advice anyway. She already has, a very good lawyer that is a friend of her. WA state is horrendous with divorce, and they probably would give her everything. At this point, I'm not much concerned with the debt, I just want this woman out of my life. She still wants to take our daughter to Cali, and let me visit anytime I want, and try to set something up every 2 months for visiting, even if she has to drive back, but she doesn't live in the real world. Once our daughter is in school, there's no way anything like that will happen, and I can't take vacation every 2 months. I can't help to think that she is just a horrible person right now, and I'm worried that she'll find out that moving there won't be so easy, and she'll want to come back. My door will be closed and locked to her, but it would be good to have my daughter back in my life!

[Saxis]

We filed our divorce papers last Thursday, Aug 9th. I started looking at buying a house, and my neighbor mentioned it to her, and all of a sudden she's decided that she's not moving to California. She is still going there for a couple months until the court hearing, but she's going to live close by still. I will have my daughter in my life at least, but I was kind of glad the X would be far away. We've been working together and figuring things out, separating our stuff out. We aren't using lawyers. She is renting space from me to store her things while she is gone, and it makes me somewhat uneasy. Even though I've agreed to it, I feel like I'm being used. Financially, everything is going so much better now. I can't begin to believe how much money she was soaking up, and for what, I have no idea. Even without her small income, I still have way more than enough to pay all the bills by myself. I'll be saving enough to pay off my part of the debt in a couple months. This is just a small part that makes me feel better about the whole divorce. The best part about being married was growing with the person you love. I felt that I grew more in love with my wife every day, moreso when we were having problems. It never worked that way for her, and I'll probably never understand why.

 

I'm actually looking forward to going out and meeting new people. I'm still not quite used to the idea of not being with my wife forever, but she will always be a part of my life. I'm sure I will always love her, but I just want to move on, ASAP. I've been frequenting a coffee shop by my work, and am quite interested in one of the girls working there. I was married young, and I never really experienced the dating life. Not exactly sure how or if I should proceed with dating while the divorce is going on, but we are already going our separate ways. I'm surprised at how well I'm coping with it, but then again it's pretty much been over for 4 months now, and I've gotten used to the cold treatment. She's been doing it for 2 years...

 

Any insight on starting to date again? I don't want to end up hurting someone because the X is still in the picture, or just have a "rebound" relationship. A couple of dates might be fun though. No one night stands or anything like that... I could probably do that with the X, as she's been mentioning "friends with benefits" lately. I hate to admit that it sounds tempting as a "one last time" before this all ends, but it's crazy for me to think that it wouldn't mean something to me, and she doesn't feel the same way about it. I don't need any more pain caused by her! I'd rather move on and build something special with someone who cares.

[Melovator]

Any insight on starting to date again? I don't want to end up hurting someone because the X is still in the picture, or just have a "rebound" relationship. A couple of dates might be fun though. No one night stands or anything like that... I could probably do that with the X, as she's been mentioning "friends with benefits" lately. I hate to admit that it sounds tempting as a "one last time" before this all ends, but it's crazy for me to think that it wouldn't mean something to me, and she doesn't feel the same way about it. I don't need any more pain caused by her! I'd rather move on and build something special with someone who cares.

 

Dear Saxis, wish I had insight on dating again- I only ever 'dated' my X. But coffee shop flirting is a good way to start. Ohhh that Barista near work...

But the sleeping with X I have some minor insight into because I'm the Queen of F**ked Up there right now. I don't think you (as a bloke) can say to your X what I (as a woman) say to mine "Shut up, lie there, let me do my thing, you speak and I will get off and its over." And I don't think about him- I think about me.

 

Most women prefer to be engaged by the man they're having sex with and from what you've written you can't just go through the act thinking about Play Boy Bunnies so while I may read like a complete hypocrite, I'll write this: don't sleep with your X.

 

There are women out there that you can negotiate 'no strings' sex with (and I'm not talking about those who work in the alternative leisure industry). They are just really hard to find and you have to contend with those who will say "okay no strings" but the next day will start planning your future together.

 

Just be completely honest "I am not looking for a relationship with anyone right now, I am looking for some respectful, safe, adult fun and THAT'S IT!"

[Gunny376]

what I (as a woman) say to mine "Shut up, lie there, let me do my thing, you speak and I will get off and its over

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! :love: