Are you better looking than MM's wife?

[Tomcat33]

And yet you make the assumption that the BS doesn't have any common sense. Do you get the irony?

 

This is why you are wrong. But I have had this conversation with you before.

 

We know the man is capable of lying. Forgiveness involves acknowledging all that's been done and deciding to work past it. Not forgetting. Forgiveness is never forgetting. Its more like accepting. Everyone lies, TC. Even you and me.

 

I am sure that you have had more guys than just your MM lie to you. So you are assigning all MM as liars all the time. Classic, once a cheater, always a cheater - but mainly because he's not with you any longer. Not a dig, just an observation. I bet things would be coming from you completely differently had he left his M for good and stayed with you.

 

Then you'd be all "people change", "he just found someone more compatible with him", "you're just bitter because he chose me".

 

Its easy to make the assumptions that you are making when you are on the outside not even close enough to look in. Being forgiving doesn't mean that you are gullible.

 

You're right being forgiving doesn't mean that you are a gullible, thinking that a cheater is never going to lie to you or hide anything from you again DOES.

 

Well of course in my case in particular if he had stayed on the path he was on I would have had more faith in him than in what he did. That didn't mean I was ready to trust him blindly, he was afterall lying to his W about us so I was well aware he was capable of lying, but I accepted the circumstance and could not measure him AT THAT particular time with the same measuring stick that I would use for measuring a single man, because such was the situiiton that he was unlike any other man I had been involved with and I chose to be involved with him.

 

If he had had his D only then would our true rel have started, as far as I am concerned only THEN would I have been able to live the reality of what our characters were actually like together, at least that is how I saw it. I made that very clear to him the whole time. What we were doing while he was seperated, to me was not the true rel. it was an inbetween but not one where we found out each other's true characters because he had too many loose ends to tie before we could embark on our thing. So of course I would think differently had he been true to his word. His word was "I never loved my W, I have wanted out for many years and didn't have the courage.

 

I think it's easier to change your character flaws in a new dynamic than it is to change in a dynamic where the pattern has already been set.

You can't argue that! I am not sayin that it CAN'T happen the other way around just saying it is easier. So yes if I had ended up with him I think there is more room for change than in a rel that is already hit it's rock bottom because of the patterns that develop through that particular dynamic.

 

I had a boyfriend cheat on me many years ago we were together two years, there were problems, that's the only time that I know of I have been lied to in a significant way of course everyone tells little lies.

Other than that not sure why you think I have been lied to so much?

 

 

So if everyone lies what's the big deal about what a cheater does and why hate the OW so much? Everyone lies, everyone does it....right?

what load of crap!

[NoIDidn't]

You're right being forgiving doesn't mean that you are a gullible, thinking that a cheater is never going to lie to you or hide anything from you again DOES.

 

 

Where do you get this thinking from? Who has told you that because they took their H back, that they automatically think that he will never do it again?

 

Again, you are assuming a lot and can't be further from the truth. But whatever gets you through the day, you know. Whatever....

 

That inbetween R really did a number on you.

[shellys-trying]

You're right being forgiving doesn't mean that you are a gullible, thinking that a cheater is never going to lie to you or hide anything from you again DOES.

 

Well of course in my case in particular if he had stayed on the path he was on I would have had more faith in him than in what he did. That didn't mean I was ready to trust him blindly, he was afterall lying to his W about us so I was well aware he was capable of lying, but I accepted the circumstance and could not measure him AT THAT particular time with the same measuring stick that I would use for measuring a single man, because such was the situiiton that he was unlike any other man I had been involved with and I chose to be involved with him.

 

So yes if I had ended up with him I think there is more room for change than in a rel that is already hit it's rock bottom because of the patterns that develop through that particular dynamic.

 

QUOTE]

 

I think if an OW wins the cheating MM, she's winning a liar and a cheater.

If he did it with ya, he'll do it to ya. So, it's good Tomcat got out of the MM situation she was in. More than likely he'd have cheated on her too.

 

Good thinking, TC.

[shellys-trying]

We know the man is capable of lying. Forgiveness involves acknowledging all that's been done and deciding to work past it. Not forgetting. Forgiveness is never forgetting. Its more like accepting. Everyone lies, TC. Even you and me.QUOTE]

 

Exacting so in mine & H's case. He screwed up, I forgave him. It's all good.

 

He's been an honest upstanding guy since way back when, and I can't complain.

Why should I continue to be suspicious and distrustful of a H who's now a good H?

[TogetherForever]

That's the same way I feel about my mm. He cheated on his wife but that doesn't mean that I should be suspicious that he'd cheat on me too.

I'm not the slightest bit worried that he'd cheat on me.

[silktricks]

Exactly....

 

Cheating can be (and often is) a one-time mess-up in an otherwise exemplary life - whether the cheater stays with their original spouse or leaves their wife and stays with the OW. The point is that neither the BS or the OW is necessarily a fool or gullible or <fill in the blank> for choosing to stay with the cheater.

 

I understand the comfort that a OW can find in thinking that the BS is a gullible fool for taking back the man who she wanted and put effort and love into. And I can understand the "your a fool to believe he won't cheat on you" comfort that a BS can find in making that type of statement to an OW.

 

The trouble is, neither statement is true. Often a spouse will cheat because of a one-time situation. Whether it's an unhappiness of the moment in their marriage leading to a one-time fling with an OW, or a long-term unhappiness leading to finding love with someone else. Either way, it's a one-time thing.

 

The problem I have with the way this particular thread has gone is the implication by some OW that if the BS takes back their WS, they are automatically fools. This is clearly muddy thinking brought on by anger. It's the same-old same-old of "if he didn't choose me, he's no good AND the woman he chose is a bitch".

 

Some of the women here know my story, but to be suscinct about it: My H and I had some health issues - each pretty major. I was severely depressed and left my H. While we were separated he had an EA with another woman. I couldn't give him what he needed at a time he was badly in need. He couldn't give me what I needed. When I came back to him he told me about it and told her good-bye. She didn't even know that we were separated during his little "fling" - she thought she was playing around with a fully attached MM. What he did was wrong. I do put more blame on her. He KNEW we were separated. She thought we weren't.

 

But to say that I am a gullible fool to forgive him for it is its own kind of idiocy. Yes, I forgave him. No, what he did won't happen again. Will he EVER lie to me again about SOMETHING? Probably. Most people do tell little lies. That's not exactly earth-shattering, though. If you can't take little failures in people, then you might as well check out now, because all you're ever going to be in this life is disappointed.

 

Oh yeah, and just to get a little bit back on track. I think that most of society would say the OW is better looking than me, but she wasn't my husband's "type". His history is of liking women who are short, which she wasn't, and have more curves, which she didn't.

[TogetherForever]

I need to add that my mm left his wife, divorced her, went back to her again & remarried her in Jamaica.

That's 2x & I still won't worry that he'll do to me what he did to her.

 

I do wonder how she still has no problem with him being with me for almost 7 years & why SHE doesn't initiate a divorce. ???

[shellys-trying]

You must not have any prob with her either, having had MM M her again. I guess if you both can live with it, letting the MM be a cake eater, there's no problem with your situation, TF.

 

There are those on here, myself included, who had a problem with my H continuing a R with the OW. He solved that prob by dumping her and coming home and thus us working on our M.

[shellys-trying]

Of course, the xOW had a problem with it, but since he had kicked her to the curb, her opinion meant nothing. Not to him, and not to me.

 

It went back to being just about us. A husband and a wife.

[mopar crazy]

Hmmm, I posted to this and it never showed so here I go again. I just skimmed through the rest of the thread but wanted to comment on TC and the lying to get back into the M. Do I think my H lied to me to get back into the M...no I don't think he did, at least I hope and pray he didn't. We can't work on rebuilding our M if I'm going to be worried about him lying now can I?

 

Do I think he is lying now about the past A? No, he has no reason to lie. However, if he is I'm not going to dwell on whether he is lying or not. That is not a good way to rebuild the trust in a M.

[shellys-trying]

I think I asked my head off about the A and everything about it. i don't even ask anymore myself. It's just old news. I think he's telling the truth about the A.

The last time I saw him just get so mad about how the A screwed our lives(M) up, I was convinced he regretted it. When you see that kind of anger toward himself (not at me)from a man like my H, you know he's telling the truth.

That's why I believe in him again. I think he learned a hard lesson and I'm willing to go forward with him and put trust in him again.

[silktricks]

I think I asked my head off about the A and everything about it. i don't even ask anymore myself. It's just old news. I think he's telling the truth about the A.

The last time I saw him just get so mad about how the A screwed our lives(M) up, I was convinced he regretted it. When you see that kind of anger toward himself (not at me)from a man like my H, you know he's telling the truth.

That's why I believe in him again. I think he learned a hard lesson and I'm willing to go forward with him and put trust in him again.

 

What she said!!

[PoshPrincess]

Am just catching up with this thread.

 

LittleLady - what a charmer!

 

Shelly and Mopar - congrats to both of you for being able to put the past behind you and move on. The same goes for TC. Only hope I can do the same eventually.

 

Still continuing on the original post, I am not sure that it is always about looks (although still believe in the case of a purely PA it most likely is). I don't believe my exMM had an A with me because of looks. I was no more or less attractive than his W - just different. Obviously he was attracted to me by my looks in some way (I'm sure if I was a total dog he wouldn't have been interested in the first place) but as ours was more of an EA it was about what I could offer him emotionally rather than physically.

 

When his W eventually found out he DID lie about a lot of things, including what I looked like. I think "fat minger" were his exact words. How charming! He told her I was married when in fact I had just come out of a LTR when we met (I guess to reassure her that there was no chance of us being together). He also lied about where I worked and where and when we met. I don't think this is a big issue now (not for her anyway) as I am sure it possibly DID save their M. If she had known the truth maybe she wouldn't have taken him back. The one thing she should maybe be concerned about is that our A continued for a few months after DDay. Saying that, I really do think he has learned his lesson. He was a totally cr*p cheat anyway - not so good at hiding things as some, which can only be a good thing for his M of course!

[whirlwinds_sister]

You know this seems like a good place as any, and I am going to interject this in here not as some defense of the things an MM has said to any of us or minimizing what they say to thier W's, but as someone M myself trying to rebuild a marriage, but still with very intense feelings for the OM, I can tell you as I have rebuilt my marriage, yes, I did tell things that would make my H hurt less. I said that the OM didn't mean as much as he did because I did not want to hurt my H anymore then he'd already been hurt. I guess what I am saying is that your MM didn't necessarily lie to you about their feelings any more then he lied to his W about his feelings for her but there are two things going on--a component of self-preservation and also the desire not to hurt the person any more then you have. When one decides they will stay in the marriage then your priority it to your spouse's feelings and in many ways you lessen the blow by saying the OW/OM did not mean as much as they did, in the same way they aren't honest in the A about their real feelings for their spouse(I am here to tell you that so many spouses are secretly hoping that things will change at home so they can live that dream life with the spouse--that is a reality I have had to admit to even myself). I'm sure this will hurt fellow W's to hear and bring some joy to OW, but I am speaking as both myself and what my motivations were. In the end, I didn't want to hurt either man so I did tell them both different things as it was ending to lessen the blow to both, but in reality, I did love them both for different reasons. I know people don't believe that, but I don't find it much different then being able to love one's children when there are more then 1. Eventually, though, one must make a decision and in the end, it is very hard to compete with the person you have history, children, and a life with. You also begin to realize the thigns that eroded your marriage, may erode the marriage to the OW/OM and this time in spades since there will be stepchildren, diminished finances, etc. but all that aside, no matter how painful, you realize you have to let go of someone.

 

I'm sorry guys. I'm reticent this morning. It's been a rough week. My OM and I have minimal contact, but I know I'm about to cut him off completely:-(

[PoshPrincess]

Thanks Whirlwind. It's good to hear a different side to the story from a MP.

 

Sorry to hear of your pain. I hope you are doing the right thing for yourself. Best of luck. Be strong.

[shellys-trying]

If I sat down and started believing that my H left out a detail like how he had secretly cared about the woman he cheated with, then I would throw in the towel.

I've heard every detail about the A, how he handled it, how she did, and quite honestly, there didn't seem to be any feelings on either side. No declarations of love, not promises to be together forever, just plain ole sex whenever he felt like going over there to her house.

If any words of love had happened, atleast from the OW's attitude, she would have gladly gloated about his telling her he loved or or atleast cared for her.

I heard nothing, not from her, not from him, and she wasn't keeping it quiet for his sake. She ratted him out to save her own self when confronted by me.

 

This is how I know what my H tells me about the A, all 3 months of it, is the truth.

[Tomcat33]

. When one decides they will stay in the marriage then your priority it to your spouse's feelings and in many ways you lessen the blow by saying the OW/OM did not mean as much as they did, in the same way they aren't honest in the A about their real feelings for their spouse(I am here to tell you that so many spouses are secretly hoping that things will change at home so they can live that dream life with the spouse--that is a reality I have had to admit to even myself). I'm sure this will hurt fellow W's to hear and bring some joy to OW, but I am speaking as both myself and what my motivations were. In the end, I didn't want to hurt either man so I did tell them both different things as it was ending to lessen the blow to both, but in reality, I did love them both for different reasons. I know people don't believe that, but I don't find it much different then being able to love one's children when there are more then 1. Eventually, though, one must make a decision and in the end, it is very hard to compete with the person you have history, children, and a life with. You also begin to realize the thigns that eroded your marriage, may erode the marriage to the OW/OM and this time in spades since there will be stepchildren, diminished finances, etc. but all that aside, no matter how painful, you realize you have to let go of someone.

 

 

Well thank you for sharing your thoughts Whirlwinds. And I am sorry you are feeling down and having a rough week...

As to what you just said, I know that and a lot of people know this the ones that don't want to know this are the women who take back their lying Hs. Unfrotunately, some people only want to know what they want to know. Granted some Hs do try to recover from the A by doing the right thing but I just don't think you can EVER trust them again, no matter how hard they try to make it up to their W that nagging feeling will always be in the backs of their minds.

 

Having said that, when I first met my ex, he was so blatantly open and careless about contacting me etc. there is NO way his W could not know he was up to no good, she either didn't care about him at all at the time or he had done this many times before and she put up with it anyway because she didn't want to know he was messing around on her. Either way, she could have known if she wanted to.

 

 

So here is an update on my situation: last night I get this weird number call my cell around 11pm, called twice I didnt pick up I never pick up numbers I don't recognize couldn't be bothered...so it calls a fourth time in a row and this time it was a blocked "unavailbale" #. So I pick it up and low and behold it's HIM. The "happily married and repenting man" that went back to his marriage to work it out with his W, I went out with. CH'YA right! I hear his voice I tell him I am going to hang up...he says no wait please please just talk to me for a second I need to talk to someone I am not well. So I ask him what's wrong...he says "well I am just really down and messed up" I say "why?" I am in a lot of pain (get this!) YOU destroyed me" LOL I say "I" destroyed you? " He says yes I was so in love with you and you forced me to go back to my W when you started pressuring me about the divorce and you wouldn't accept what I was able to give you at the time and we started to argue so much. You should have been more supportive of me instead of making me feel bad for lying to my wife about us" So I say "exactly what was I getting from you that I should have been happy to get?" He says "everything" I say everything what? He says I have you all my love, my heart and my time. And I say "yeah but you couldn't give me what I deserved most, you couldn't give your complete freedom by closing the door on your other rel to start ours. he says "it was a matter of time" LOL yeah oooook what 3 4 5 years of that nonesense?

 

So he proceeds to tell me, I didn't call to argue I called because I miss talking to you I miss how we used talk, I miss you like crazy and I don't know what I am doing." I say " well if you are so down and so confused and feel like talking to someone you should be talking to your wife, afterall you did move back home to be with her, so why are you calling me?" He says "you have no idea why I moved back home, or how I feel" I say, "no I don't and quite frankly I don't care anymore I am finally getting over you" So he says "so you want to get over me then?" I said yes, you are liar you are cheat and you lead me on just as you are leading your W on, he says "I never lead you on I only lied to my W because I wanted to be with you and besides you should take responsibility for the pain you caused me for pushing me away and making me go back to my W" LOL I say "interesting I MADE you go back to your W?" He says yes you had a lot to with it too. (typical wanting me to take responsibility for his mess)

 

Well the conversation went in circles until finally he pissed me off and I said LOOK this conversation is going nowhere, pretty much like our relationship did. GET HELP, LEAVE ME ALONE and stop lying to your W. He got mad at me and said see there you go again offending me making me feel worse about what I am doing to my W that's why our rel ended because you wouldn't support me!!! LOL (oh my god it just got crazier and crazier by the minute)

 

So he says well "I hope you are happy that you called her last time and told her I came to see you and that YOU MADE ME LIE TO HER about how I feel about you again, you hurt us both so much by calling!!! I said "IIII hurt you both? WHAT ABOUT THE FACT YOU LIED TO HER TO COME AND SEE ME?" He says "well she didnt have to know that and things would have been fine. "I say FINE FOR WHO?" What about me you prick? what about how you also lied to me? He says no I didn't lie to you, we were broken up what did it matter if I went back to her?"(and that is how the liar justifies his actions and tries to put the blame on the OW)

He says, I hope you are happy that I am totally miserable now" I let out a roaring laughter, "IIIIIII made you lie to her about how you feel about me?" I said look, we are done here. Don't EVER contact me again in any shape way or form. And his parting remark was "and don't bother calling her now to tell her I called you again because she doesn't believe what you say anyway"

LOL That was the icing on the cake for me.

 

I don't know if he was telling the truth about that or not,but the reality is she is still with him, he is calling me from the same house she is in at 11 pm he is still lying to her, and they are supposedly working on the marriage. WHAT A JOKE. Good riddance to both him and his marriage...there ain't a miracle on earth that is going to fix that!

I am 100x better off for what I know today than what I thought when I was involved with him....there is a god afterall! Still feel totally stupid for getting invoveld with such a mental case, but he was, is and always will be VERY good with his words, thing is now that I have caught on I can see past it all.

 

Why I am telling all this? because men who cheat lie, while my guy never blamed his W for the marriage not working out in the end he blames me for his missery. For ruining his marriage. Really it no different than what the BS who take the cheaters back are doing in this thread.....it's just so ridiculous you gotta laugh.

[PoshPrincess]

Well done TC, am SO proud of you that you managed to tell him to get lost. I swear I would STILL fall for that BS even now if it was my exMM (although I wouldn't be too happy at the blameshifting). I can't believe he tried to turn it all on you. The guy is seriously messed up and you are well rid of him!

 

Congratulations! Let's hope his W also realises what an a**hole he is as this leopard obviously has no intention of changing his spots!

[Ripples]

Gosh, that was good timing, TC. It certainly lends weight to your argument about taking back a WS, doesn't it?

[Tomcat33]

Well done TC, am SO proud of you that you managed to tell him to get lost. I swear I would STILL fall for that BS even now if it was my exMM (although I wouldn't be too happy at the blameshifting). I can't believe he tried to turn it all on you. The guy is seriously messed up and you are well rid of him!

 

Congratulations! Let's hope his W also realises what an a**hole he is as this leopard obviously has no intention of changing his spots!

 

 

Thank you Posh!! Meant to thank you for your last post and slipped by...

 

I feel pretty good too, in the sense that I feel good that I finally de-masked this guy and I can stop feeling bad about about why the rel ended...I sort of kicked myself at one point for not being more understanding with him but the reality is that something that was more powerful than me told me to listen to my instincts. Now I know without a shadow of a doubt the following:

 

1. I was betrayed and WAS a victim of lies just like his W was

2. I have been right all along to feel as I have, like I did things the best I could given what I had to work with.

3. I no longer feel bad for what he is doing to his W she is allowing this to happen to her you cannot feel sorry someone who does not want to help themselves.

4. His marriage is not good, it wasn't when I met him, on won't be probably EVER.

5. He is indeed a liar, a coward and one who shifts blame for his wrong doings unfortunately his W sounds sort of the same...she did blame me for distracting her H!!

5. His W will keep believing what she wants to believe, even when all the facts are sitting right in front of her.

6. I WON in the end, I got rid of one messed up guy.

[Tomcat33]

Gosh, that was good timing, TC. It certainly lends weight to your argument about taking back a WS, doesn't it?

 

 

YEAH incredible timing indeed! Well I don't know that it lends any weight to other situations discussed here but it sure as heck clears a few doubts I was having about my own situation.

I know my situation was far more complex than just a man going off with the town tramp for a two month fling. My situation was very emotional, there was a LOT of emotiona and time invested on both parts, it is far more complex than just a marriage that is having problems and the man decides to sleep with another woman and quickly regrets what he has done.

 

As my situation does not apply to perhaps a lot of what has been argued back and forth in this particular thread, I am sure there are a lot of OW out there who are more similar to my situation than just a quick sexual fling. Women who engage in quick sexual flings with married men are not on here looking for answers, they are well beyond questions and answers they are just out to have a good time.

 

Oh and one more thing contrary to what some may think that I am feeling all high and mighty about that phone call last night, on the one hand my head is at peace, on the other my soul is bleeding again. It is very sad to know I wasted a year out of my life falliing in love with someone that was so NOT what he professed to be, it hurts like you wouldn't believe.

[Ripples]

Incredible that someone like the MM you were with could be so devious, so conniving and cunning and you didn't spot it almost immediately, never mind for the long time you were having an affair with him, despite being so close emotionally.

 

I don't think I've ever met anyone as duplicitous as that.

[Tomcat33]

Incredible that someone like the MM you were with could be so devious, so conniving and cunning and you didn't spot it almost immediately, never mind for the long time you were having an affair with him, despite being so close emotionally.

 

I don't think I've ever met anyone as duplicitous as that.

 

You have no reason to take my word for this because you don't have any real time rapport with me, but let me tell you this guy is a very good talker. He has made a living out of communication. As I have mentioned before he can sell you a cement wall and convice you that you had a need for a free standing wall and you'll pay top dollars for it too.

He is extremely giving both emotionally, verbally and in heart. he has a good heart but is terrible at handling things. Don't forget I worked with him too this spilled over professionally and I got to see a lot of his traits in the way he handled business but always managed to talk his way out his situations.

 

On the same token he is intelligent and very charming, but has this boyish innocence to him as well.....He is quite the character is alll I can say now....He is fun and dynamic and whymsical and has real zest for life....gees now that I put it down in writing he almost sounds like your typical borderline schitzo LOL Nonetheless he was unlike anyone I had ever met before. I loved his passion for life his optimism, and most of all how he made me feel as strange as that sounds...he had a very infectious personality.

Physicallly he is not that special just to look at him and probably why going back to this thread topic he was somewhat blown away that he had me because I guess I would be considered "out of his leaugue" But I on the other hand am the type of woman that puts more weight on the mental (ha! no pun intended, mental as in intellectual) aspect of a man vs how physically perfect he is, so to me he was extremely sexy.

 

 

How did I fall for it? I didn't fully I suppose I always had my doubts and this is what destroyed our rel. the fact that I faught his actions so hard, I faught his choices I didn't just coast along letting the chips fall as they may, but at the same time I fell in love with all the things I decribed above, I was just waiting to figure out if he was indeed just a liar or his actions were being affected by the difficult situation we were in, he beng maried trying to end that rel, while trying to start our rel. So I made excuses for his odd behaviour and said to myself, he is under a lot of pressure but maybe he is not typically like that.

 

I'll never know what he is really like, but his actions leave no doubt in my mind that he is a liar and a coward. So all those other qualities that I found so attractive are not that interesting anymore given who he is at the centre of it all....

[Ripples]

TC, don't get me wrong. Whether I believe you or not is not the point here. What I'm getting at is that no one is wholly bad. The MM you were involved with was good enough, in many ways, for his wife and for you to fall for him, so he obviously has a good side. All those other WS out there also have a good side to them, a side that convinced their wives to marry them in the first place and for some, for their wives to take them back. No BS (unless they have a personality/mental disorder) would have married their husbands in the first place if the man was totally bad. Just as you would never have got involved with the MM in question if he was a total rotten egg.

 

To judge BS's by saying once a cheat always a cheat and they are fools for having their FWS back is a little lame, really. The FWS aren't all bad, just as the MM you had an A with wasn't all bad. FWS can be just that, they can reform, marriages can reform and that's one of the reasons why it's so hard to let go of a relationship, knowing that its possible for people to change.

 

If you're saying that the MM didn't have any redeeming features, then that does a disservice to your own self-image, intelligence and credibility, no?

[Tomcat33]

To judge BS's by saying once a cheat always a cheat and they are fools for having their FWS back is a little lame, really. The FWS aren't all bad, just as the MM you had an A with wasn't all bad. FWS can be just that, they can reform, marriages can reform and that's one of the reasons why it's so hard to let go of a relationship, knowing that its possible for people to change.

 

If you're saying that the MM didn't have any redeeming features, then that does a disservice to your own self-image, intelligence and credibility, no?

 

once a cheat always a cheat and they are fools for having their FWS back is a little lame

 

WOAH WHOAH WOAH please point out where ANYWHERE in this whole site have I said those words:

 

 

 

If you're saying that the MM didn't have any redeeming features, then that does a disservice to your own self-image, intelligence and credibility

 

Did you EVEN read my last post? exactly where did I say my guy had no redeeming qualities??? I think I just posted quite the opposite actually, but all those qualities are negated by the fact that he lies, that he deceives and acts selfishly, once I saw this I was not going to let myself get burned again. And so I am pegged as bitter for not winning the prize in the end!!! LOL

 

But somehow for the type of women who DO keep falling for the repetitive pattern, there is something bad in being the type of woman who takes what she has seen for face value, deciding it is not good for her, and walks away.