Taking the last name

[Curmudgeon]

what exactly does that involve?

 

Consideration, simple courtesies (opening and holding doors to cars and buildings, picking up something she may have dropped, using appropriate language, LISTENING and REMEMBERING, small but heartfelt attentions, commisserating when appropriate, not farting, belching, scratching in her presence, being protective) and those are just for starters.

 

Good table manners, never wearing a hat indoors, dressing appropriately for every occasions, offering your hand or arm when there are obstacles. There's more but those are just the obvious "attentions" that come to mind.

 

I'm so old-fashioned I always walk on the street side of the sidewalk. Do you know where that tradition came from? Another is always preceding the woman downstairs and following her upstairs. Can you figure out why? And, NO! It's NOT so you can view her a$$ on the way up.

 

It's how I was raised. It's how I remain.

 

But remember, around here I'm relatively old!

 

By the way, if you have to ask you ain't one!

[alphamale]

Consideration, simple courtesies (opening and holding doors to cars and buildings, picking up something she may have dropped, using appropriate language, LISTENING and REMEMBERING, small but heartfelt attentions, commisserating when appropriate, not farting, belching, scratching in her presence, being protective) and those are just for starters.

 

Good table manners, never wearing a hat indoors, dressing appropriately for every occasions, offering your hand or arm when there are obstacles. There's more but those are just the obvious "attentions" that come to mind.

 

I'm so old-fashioned I always walk on the street side of the sidewalk. Do you know where that tradition came from? Another is always preceding the woman downstairs and following her upstairs. Can you figure out why? And, NO! It's NOT so you can view her a$$ on the way up.

yea but doesn't all this stuff sort of assume the female is weak and inferior? what about womens lib and equality?

[tanbark813]

Consideration, simple courtesies (opening and holding doors to cars and buildings, picking up something she may have dropped, using appropriate language, LISTENING and REMEMBERING, small but heartfelt attentions, commisserating when appropriate, not farting, belching, scratching in her presence, being protective) and those are just for starters.

 

I was on board up until the "not farting" part. F**k that.

[Curmudgeon]

yea but doesn't all this stuff sort of assume the female is weak and inferior? what about womens lib and equality?

 

It says she's cherished and valued.

 

As for women's lib, here's a funny story.

 

Several years ago, when I was still a young man in his 50s, I approached the door to my office building at the same time a young woman in her 30s, maybe early 40s, did so. Being an old-school gentleman I opened the door and stood aside to let her enter before me.

 

The woman glared and snapped at me, "Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I can't open the door for myself."

 

I smiled pleasantly and quietly and softly said, "Madam, I didn't open the door in deference to your gender. I opened it in deference to your age!"

 

I then entered the building and never looked back.

[amaysngrace]

I was on board up until the "not farting" part. F**k that.

 

 

Yeah I guess this is new-age old-school. Because my BF is old-school but he farts whenever he needs to fart.

 

Right now I have my exH's last name. I could have had it changed for free when I got divorced but I didn't do it because it's my kids' last name.

 

If I get married again I will let it go happily.

[norajane]

yea but doesn't all this stuff sort of assume the female is weak and inferior? what about womens lib and equality?

 

I see most of it as common courtesy and politeness. It's called good manners.

[Totoro]

Tanny: Ok, whatever, as long as you don't mind when WE let one loose.

(At either end...)

[tanbark813]

Tanny: Ok, whatever, as long as you don't mind when WE let one loose.

(At either end...)

 

Fine by me. I'm a modern gentleman.

[green-eyed beauty]

It says she's cherished and valued.

 

As for women's lib, here's a funny story.

 

Several years ago, when I was still a young man in his 50s, I approached the door to my office building at the same time a young woman in her 30s, maybe early 40s, did so. Being an old-school gentleman I opened the door and stood aside to let her enter before me.

 

The woman glared and snapped at me, "Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I can't open the door for myself."

 

I smiled pleasantly and quietly and softly said, "Madam, I didn't open the door in deference to your gender. I opened it in deference to your age!"

 

I then entered the building and never looked back.

 

Ha, ha, ha, good one.

[Woggle]

Feminism killed all the old school gentlemen. It is hard to be chivalrous when you feel like the entire female population has turned against you. I don't mean that women want to be owned but many women want to be able to be vulnerable and feel feminine. I have heard of many high powered executive type of women that have fantasies of a man dominating them in the bedroom. There are exceptions but women for the most part want strong men. I think that a big part of the attraction to black men for some white women is that black men have yet to be emasculated. Some women for the last 30 years though have been trying to make men more womanly and they finally succeeded but most women are in no way attracted to these new men. Almost all the men I know in truly happy marriages are strong and masculine men.

[InsanityImpaired]

Feminism killed all the old school gentlemen.

Right ... please define old school gentlemen (I can come up with a definition, but you will undoubtedly not agree).

 

It is hard to be chivalrous when you feel like the entire female population has turned against you.

That is paranoia speaking, not chivalry. But perhaps it is true of paranoia, or of men suffering from an extreme obsession with this, that it is impossible for them to behave like gentlemen.

 

I don't mean that women want to be owned but many women want to be able to be vulnerable and feel feminine. I have heard of many high powered executive type of women that have fantasies of a man dominating them in the bedroom.

And I have heard many men say that dying for one's country (in military service), is a noble thing to do. This means of course that they would like to be blown up or assassinated, does not it? :rolleyes:

 

Some women for the last 30 years though have been trying to make men more womanly and they finally succeeded but most women are in no way attracted to these new men.

And how would they have done that? And does it not imply that men were not "men" already then?

 

It is easier to argue the other way around: that women are made more manly - women forced in the labor market (why pay the man a decent salary for 40 hours of work, when you can get 80 hours of work for 150% of his salary? The former makes no sense, economically). That would be why women are so "agressive", "bitchy", et cetera. Formerly such words only applied to men. Truly an abomination!

 

I must admit the concept of equality should be banned from the discourse. Imagine that! Women having the right to vote! Women having the right to equal pay for equal work. . Women having the right to be protected against (sexual / physical) abuse and exploitation. Surely the world is doomed because of that...

 

Almost all the men I know in truly happy marriages are strong and masculine men.

And of course, your "experience" defines reality. All the men you know in truly happy marriages can be no more than 2.

[IpAncA]

It says she's cherished and valued.

 

As for women's lib, here's a funny story.

 

Several years ago, when I was still a young man in his 50s, I approached the door to my office building at the same time a young woman in her 30s, maybe early 40s, did so. Being an old-school gentleman I opened the door and stood aside to let her enter before me.

 

The woman glared and snapped at me, "Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I can't open the door for myself."

 

I smiled pleasantly and quietly and softly said, "Madam, I didn't open the door in deference to your gender. I opened it in deference to your age!"

 

I then entered the building and never looked back.

 

What a b**ch. I love it when people open the doors for me and I always make sure to tell them thank you.

 

It's nice to see there are gentlemen in the world. To bad there are those who don't appreciate it.

[sb129]

I think that story is great Curmudegeon, you really stuck it to her!!

 

I always say thank you if people do polite stuff like that, and I often do things back, like hold doors open, or get up to give my seat to a pregnant woman or elderly person. Because its NICE thats why, not because I think they are inferior or any other such bollocks like that.

[Frances]

I never wanted to change my last name, not that I liked it that much but it was mine. This was nearly 35 years ago and it was practically unheard of for a woman not to change her name. I stuck to my guns though, and on all legal documents my name did not change but very few people respected my wishes on what I wanted to be called and my h never backed me up. People are afraid of change and regard anyone who has different view on things as just odd. I have never called anyone a name they did not want (to their face anyway) and I would like the same courtesy. The odd thing is that where I come from your legal name is what is on your birth cert unless you change it by deed poll and it is only by usage that women use their husbands surname. So really I am one of the few who use my legal name.

 

Regards passing on the name, it is only the male name that is passed on and the female name just dies away. Also its not like it is just the husband's name you are taking and becoming a new family. Would a better system not be that we have 2 surnames one from our father and one from our mother, then on marriage we drop one of the names for instant, the female drops the fathers and the male drops the mothers and then you have a new family name that belongs to the new family. Would that not be far more romantic.

[tanbark813]

Regards passing on the name, it is only the male name that is passed on and the female name just dies away. Also its not like it is just the husband's name you are taking and becoming a new family. Would a better system not be that we have 2 surnames one from our father and one from our mother, then on marriage we drop one of the names for instant, the female drops the fathers and the male drops the mothers and then you have a new family name that belongs to the new family. Would that not be far more romantic.

 

More romantic maybe but it would make genealogy a nightmare. One nice benefit of having conventions for surnames is making it easier to trace family back through the generations.

[Frances]

More romantic maybe but it would make genealogy a nightmare. One nice benefit of having conventions for surnames is making it easier to trace family back through the generations.

 

 

It would make the female line much easier and the male line would stay the same so where is the problem?

[tanbark813]

It would make the female line much easier and the male line would stay the same so where is the problem?

 

The problem is having a new family name for every generation. Unless you meant keep the father's name the surname and the mother's name the middle name. (You can't have two surnames unless you hyphenate the two into one, which is still technically one surname.)

[corazoncito]

Would a better system not be that we have 2 surnames one from our father and one from our mother, then on marriage we drop one of the names for instant, the female drops the fathers and the male drops the mothers and then you have a new family name that belongs to the new family. Would that not be far more romantic.

 

Here in Mexico they do something kind of like that. You have two last names, first your father's, then your mother's. When a woman gets married, if she's traditional, she then adds "de (whatever her husband's first last name is) to the existing two last names. If she wants to keep her sanity, she just keeps the two preexisting last names.

 

So you'd get:

Juan Vasquez Rodriguez (father)

Elena Ramirez Gonzalez de Vasquez (mother)

 

Victor Vasquez Ramirez (their son)

Sara Vasquez Ramirez (de "whoever", when she gets married, their daughter)

 

Sara marries Reynaldo Montoya Chavez and thus becomes: Sara Vasquez Ramirez de Montoya

 

Her daughter Guadalupe would thus be: Guadalupe Montoya Vasquez

 

(Of course, you now have to realize that they only do this name dance on official documents and day-to-day they drop all surnames after the first one:confused:. So Sara Vasquez's daughter is Guadalupe Montoya. Still following ?)

 

So I guess you kind of cycle to a new surname combination after a few generations. I don't know if it's romantic, but I will say it's kind of confusing.

 

On the other hand, people here think I'm the weird one for having only one surname. Go figure...

[Frances]

Here in Mexico they do something kind of like that. You have two last names, first your father's, then your mother's. When a woman gets married, if she's traditional, she then adds "de (whatever her husband's first last name is) to the existing two last names. If she wants to keep her sanity, she just keeps the two preexisting last names.

 

 

 

So I guess you kind of cycle to a new surname combination after a few generations. I don't know if it's romantic, but I will say it's kind of confusing.

 

 

With my system everyone only has two surnames. If people only have one first name it would make things easier.

 

Trying to go back tracing your mother's family tree is very difficult. This way Sons would follow the male name and Daughters would follow the Female name. it is not difficult at all. It would certainly take away the feeling that the female is giving up her name as the male would be doing the same thing, just giving up one of their names.

[IpAncA]

 

Trying to go back tracing your mother's family tree is very difficult. This way Sons would follow the male name and Daughters would follow the Female name. it is not difficult at all. It would certainly take away the feeling that the female is giving up her name as the male would be doing the same thing, just giving up one of their names.

 

Yes tracing the background is hard.

 

My mother for years tried doing it and ended up at a dead end. She did get pretty far back but it was mostly on her father's side.