me before I do something stupid

[datingmum]

Hi all,

 

A long story long:

 

My partner and I have been together for two years. He is a sweet, funny, affectionate, caring man who shares most interests and values with me. We met 6 months after I left the father of my two children. I won't go into that relationship, sufficed to say I married the man I'd met at 14 at 21 years of age, had 2 children at 25 and realised that he was incapable of being a loving and participative father/partner and that we had gotten together way too young. I grieved the relationship for the last 2 years of it, did the counseling, etc and by the time I'd made my decision, I was very sure and very relieved. But I am not embittered about the idea of marriage and am still the marrying type. I want a lifetime to share with someone and I want to have the security of knowing I am safe in growing with someone. I had one rebound silly relationship and then took some serious time to sort out my headspace/counselling etc.

 

I read every dating book out there to prepare myself to know how to take care of myself, get my needs met, assess a man for his potential as a future long term partner, quietly observe his intentions, etc. I was armed to the teeth and not prepared to walk into anything without serious consideration, for my own sake, but also for my daughters (they were 2 and 3 at the time).

 

So when I moved into a new apartment with my daughters and slowly met my neighbour, I was ready to explore new relationships. My neighbour/partner was kind and sweet and thoughtful and moved slowly. We became friends, hung out in the evenings (as I was home with the girls), and basically took our time assessing one another. It took us nearly 1 month to kiss! We began dating, exchanged I love yous within 4 months and decided it was the right time to actually introduce him to my daughters. It was great, he could always observe me with my children, but from a distance. I thought - what better way for this guy - he knows what he's getting into, he will be able to decide what he wants from this relationship because he has been so fully prepared.

 

His previous MO: was engaged to a college sweetheart, pulled out of the marriage, she broked up with him, he took a few years pining over her, then healing then four years later, we met. Again, I thought "great, at least he has proposed before, he values marriage etc" He intimated our future in a thousand ways as guys do, dreamy and nonconcrete.

 

ARound this time, I decided it would be best to invest my money in buying a home for me and my girls. He started saying "let's stop pretending, we love each other, lets get a house together, etc" I stood back, said nothing, and waited to see if he meant it. He kept getting property papers, talking to his family about it etc. Then, he went cold on the idea. Fast forward, I was upset, but decided to buy my own house irrespective. Then he comes to my house EVERY NIGHT. His first time there, he marched around like the man of the house chatting with the neighbours etc. He proceeded to continue being there all the time, until I started to feel uncomfortably in a bind over our relationship. I started wondering why he didn't just give up his apt and live with me! We started bickering over it. It led to discussions wherein he said " I'm not sure if I want a life with children, blah blah blah"

 

So, I asked him to leave. Finally, he decided he wanted to live with me and moved in. BUt we fought on the first day, moving his stuff, because I truly think he hadn't made up his mind. Take that situation, him causing arguments because his mind is constantly chewing over "Do I or do I not want to be a stepdad and be in their lives" and repeat, like TEN times. I've asked him to move out on several occasions, which he's done, practiced no contact strictly, but he's come back each time, begging to be in my life, exploring why he has such issues with commitment (his parent's nasty marriage and lowish self esteem - though he's highly paid and outwardly confident) and committing to work on those issues. But his thoughts and feelings continually resurface.

 

I finally said "look, I want a long term future with someone and it is cruel to be living with me and our family if this is not what you want and you're not sure" and asked him to go and think about it. He stayed at a friends for 8 weeks, we kept up dating a few times a week, he started going to counselling to deal with these issues, (NO SEX!), and at Christmas, he spoiled me with very nice, lovely gifts, and a surprise trip to Venice. When we went to Venice, he proposed. But from the moment he proposed to when I saw the ring, I knew it wasn't right. The ring doesn't resemble an engagement ring (and he is a big spoiler/knows what I wanted/thinks nothing of buying very expensive items for me or for him) at all. I guess you can read between the lines, I still felt that his proposal didn't 'ring' true.

 

But I accepted. For the past 5 months we've rowed very frequently and they've gotten more and more vicious. We try to only do it when the kids are in bed, but I know it is affectign them and it's killing me. When we fight, always over the tiniest thing, within 2 minutes he starts bringing up the same old tired "i don't know if I'm ready for this life" speech. So my original fears were confirmed, the proposal wasn't completely heartfelt. I took my ring off about 6 weeks ago adn decided to leave it. He kept trying to put it back on, and said "well, I'll just have to repropose with a new ring" But this hasn't happened. And we have been fighting more.

 

On Friday this week, we sat down and had a discussion wherein I said that his constant chewing this over in his mind was detrimental to the relationship, his indecision was causing us to fight (mostly his anger, me trying to cope) and that I couldn't take it anymore. The only solution I could offer was just to either make good on his earlier promises, i.e. recommit to our life together or go - that it was the only honourable thing to do. He said he was unprepared to repropose given that we'd been fighting. But it's chicken and egg and ALL his friends think he's nuts, given how much he's nutty over me, can't do without me, you get the picture. they all think the fighting is because of his indecision and agree that i need to do what's best for me. So, he left.

 

Then on Saturday, after I had a drunken night out with the girls to blot out my pain (my daughters were at their dad's for the weekend!), he comes back to town because I'd lost my keys. He helps me fix a flat tire, buys (uneccessarily) 4 new top of the range tires, asks me to dinner to 'discuss' things etc. But the discussions are still revolving around "do I want this life etc"

 

I am sick of selling myself, sick of waiting, and now, my parenting and my job are suffering from all this vacillation. I wrote him a letter saying please do not contact me until you have somethign concrete to say, either let's do it or let's break up. But I broke down waiting for a repy. He got angry, he's always talking about the pressure I've exerted, how the relationship pace has been dictated by me, but each and everyone of his best mates all feel that I am right to want to live a life with some stability and knowledge. I keep referring to his mates, because I desperately wanted to do what was right.

 

I told him that I needed to know what was happening because he is not truly behaving as if he wants out. When I try to discuss when to move his things, or how to tell my girls (they are starting to miss him and I'm having to lie and say he's working away), he says "stop rushing, don't be so hasty!" So are we broken up or aren't we. And I'm tired of him always making the decisions! I apologised for 'pressuring him' and said I won't ever contact him again. But we are still awaiting his response to my letter.

 

I have decided to start packing up his things tonight with my girlfriends and I'll get a removal van on Friday and quietly take his things to storage. I do not want to do this as an act of manipulation, forcing him to a decision so I will not contact or tell him this, but I need to start moving on with my life. I am so hysterical half the time, missing him, angry at him, angry at me, that I feel that it is the only way forward so that I can begin the healing process. Valium just won't cut it in the long term for a healthy life, eh!

 

It's no good to just have all his things here and just be....waiting.

 

My question is, if he comes to a decision about our relationship this time, HOW will I know it's real? If I just go ahead and pack it all up and move on, perhaps that will, for the first time, truly force him to live this alternative 31 year old, well off bachelors life that he so thinks he wants, then perhaps that is the ONLY way that he will truly realise what he's lost.

 

Sorry to be so long winded. I'm just cut up and if I don't have resolution quickly, I may end up damaging my career and my children's lives by being so nervy.

[polywog]

Hi mum, I am posting mostly to get your thread back up to the top, as I think it's pretty interesting and a real dilema, and I think you'll get some great insight here.

 

But my 2 cents (and others will have better advice) is that you are doing the right thing. He needs to figure himself out. And you know what you want, evidently, and have given him time. Just don't move all his stuff out only out of anger and frustration, though, to punish him. He may come around.

 

Others, what do you think of her dilemma?

[datingmum]

hi there,

thank you for responding. I'm sitting wearing out my keypad hitting refresh every 20 seconds. I'm sure you can understand.

 

I'm not moving his stuff out of anger. It's making me feel better to do something constructive that is within my control. The agony is worse in 'waiting'. I'm not saying I'm over him, or I don't want him in my life. What I am saying is that if he doesn't want to be in my life right now and doesn't 'know', then I will honour that.

 

If it was in anger, I think I'd want to tell him? I don't know. I'm just thinking it will be less agonising to be surrounded by his stuff.

[polywog]

I understand . It's being in limbo, not healthy for your or the children.

[Bree]

I think your doing the right thing! You can't spend your life waiting around on him to wise up. Either he will wake up or not. But you just need to concentrate on you and your children's well being. I know it's hardk, but it will be better for you in the long run. Stay strong and never settle for less than what you want out of life. Good Luck!

[stace79]

I think he should definitely move out. You are right in taking his stuff to storage if he won't move it himself. He is taking advantage of you.

 

I have been in a similar situation, waiting on a guy to make up his mind whether he could really, fully commit or not. It definitely sucks. For awhile, when we were "off," I actually was relieved because at least I knew it was over. Or thought it was over.

 

Now we are "trying things out" again, and he is definitely going far more out of his way now to show me his decision is final and he's ready. But I'm still not sold, and neither should you be if he comes back. Make him earn it. I would say that you lay down some ground rules, and if he can't stick to them, he doesn't really want to be with you badly enough. For example, tell him no sex, tell him you want to be taken out, like starting over. I am assuming that my "second chance" is not going to work out, because I've seen him change his mind so many times already. So have you.

 

Assume it won't work out, then let him prove that it could. Just take it very slowly again. If he can't do the things that need to be done to make you happy, you and your girls are better off without him. I know it's hard though. Best of luck.

[datingmum]

He came back, after the letter.. still confused, but all the lovely words "i love you deeply" etc. and said that he was trying to get an answer as to how to stop his own internal reactions of feeling 'trapped' and anxiety etc.

 

I listened, was calm, just heard what he had to say basically. But when he left, after my insistence because I refused to be drawn into any kind of discussion about what he should do - how he should proceed - how he should feel, I wrote him a text. I basically said that we love each other immensely, but that I will not allow myself to be in a relationship where the other person feels trapped with no way forward. And that as much as it hurt me to say it, our relationship was over. That I cherished our time, but it was an unhealthy situation for me to be in. I mean, I know he already left a week ago, but he just keeps coming back and back.

 

I've decided to take the 'choice' out of his hands now and pack this weekend. I'm moving his stuff to my storage garage. When he finally comes back with some sort of answer (either 'i'm here to get my stuff') or (fingers crossed) 'I realise what a crazy buffoon I'm being and I'm desperately wanting to make things right' and I BELIEVE HIM IN MY HEART, he'll at least see I'm serious. Frankly, I think he'll come back with more waffling - trying to touch me, telling me he shares the same dreams and wants them with me, but doesn't know how to get rid of or cope with his anxieties. In that case, I'm hoping the shock of all of his belongings being gone will spur some sort of reaction.

 

At the very least, I will mentally feel as if I'm doing SOMETHING positive and at least starting down the path of healing. Yet, until he's back after the weekend and calls to get his stuff, I guess I'll still be waiting....

 

Life can be so sh*t...

 

I know my posts are long, but I am so lost in this, I'm reaching out to you all for some sort of sense...

 

Thanks

[dr strangelove]

Hmm

 

No Idea what to offer here

 

But you probably feel better by talking about it right?

 

Did you move the stuff out yet?

[EnigmaXOXO]

Well, it’s not within my power to actually “stop” you from doing anything stupid. But I sure wish I could!

 

All I can offer up is an empathetic view on the situation if I could somehow imagine myself stepping into your shoes. And you’ve done such a great job of explaining your position so clearly that it isn’t that hard of a stretch.

 

I think I’d be right beside you at this point packing his things up, too. THIS TIME, for the last time. No more “you’ve got one more chance,” ... No more letting him back home than putting him back out again ... no more re-proposals by dangling that tired old quasi engagement ring in my face over and over again like I were some tail-wagging Pavlovian dog. Crap. Especially if I didn’t even like it all that much to begin with!

 

Look. Your likeable commitment phobe has had plenty of opportunity to make up his mind about what he wants. Considering the two of you have been going around and around like this since the beginning, the odds aren’t very favorable that “one more chance” is going to result in anything different. Same song. Same dance. Party over.

 

Besides, you have to stop and ask yourself how good would another proposal really feel at the end of the day considering all you’ve had to go through to get it. Especially knowing that he would forever hold over your head that you had to browbeat him into submission.

 

It just wouldn’t feel genuine or heart-felt by this point.

 

Hey! --- here’s another angle to consider:

 

If you were watching one of your daughter’s going through this with some guy, what advice would you be giving them? Think about it, then teach them how they deserve to be treated by setting the example.

[datingmum]

Thank you all for listening and giving your advice.

 

Dr Strangelove, I've only gotten so far as packing all his shoes. I had the urge to write something in permanent marker inside all the soles. I know, crazy, but you get these insane thoughts.

 

I'm busy trying to paint my daughter's bedroom, which is the highest priority as they're camping out in my bedroom until it's done. My girlfriends are coming to help today and maybe we'll get around to packing his stuff. I need help, though or I'll just break down and feel awful.

 

I understand, McFadden, what you're saying about 'browbeating' him. That's why I feel like moving on at this stage is the ONLY option. If he later decides he was wrong and wants to prove this to me, then I will listen.

 

He keeps ringing, but I don't answer.

 

I feel guilty in some ways as well, considering marriage and commitment were always on my 'agenda' as a) I think the concept of marriage is a beautiful thing b) want stability for me and my children c) cannot cope with the crazy idea of halving all our bills, etc - I've just seen too many arguments over these kinds of things. I'm of the mindset where you're either in or your out - there is no real inbetween unless you're just dating. But he was a man that hadn't really been considering marriage with ready made family when we met. Nevertheless, I tried to make sure all along the way that he knew what he was stepping into. He, unfortunately, perceived all of that as pressure. Perhaps I did it in the wrong way, who knows. I'm not bloody ghandi.

 

I am also feeling guilty because he has such serious anxiety issues. He has nervous ticks and panic attacks, etc that he's had all his life. He has a hugely stress filled job (is a company director) and, to be honest, doesn't have the sort of constitution for so much stress. In the past, before me, he'd been on medication for it, but got off it because he doesn't believe in taking things long term and also, learned how to cope through going to the gym, etc. I feel that, in some ways, this added stress has pushed him to a brink. It makes me so sad, when I see him, he's grey and has lost weight and he says things like "i'm so sorry."

 

I KNOW he wants to make it work. I KNOW he tries. I feel like I'm abandoning someone who needs me, who needs a strong woman who can help him shoulder life's burdens. But I cannot do that unless he lets me in, FULLY lets me in. I have my needs as well and if we cannot compromise, there is no way to go.

 

His latest idea is that he buys a house big enough for us all, so that we'll have more space, which he needs so that he can have a bit of privacy and a place to escape if he's feeling the strain of two boisterous young girls, he'll feel much better. He suggested I keep my house, and we see how things go, and that if we're happy together, the commitment issue will go away and the marriage thing will naturally occur.

 

But I know that in 3 months (or less) I'll have pms, or he'll be moody or whatever and I'll begin to feel "why hasn't he asked me to marry him properly again - why aren't we moving in that direction" and he'll be still 'testing' our relationship, and every wrong move as we learn to communicate and grow with each other will be perceived as our love being 'wrong' because he's still weighing up our relationship in his mind. I can't deal with that pressure. Why should I move my daughters out of our home into his home in order to 'try again'? It's utterly ridiculous, really, when you think of it. His friends say he has never been able to truly make a decision about his life ever, that although he's outwardly very successful and confident, he agonises over everything and gets paralysed with fear. He says this himself. Which makes me feel that he truly does have a problem, and isn't just some 'he's just not that into you' kind of guy.

 

For me, the only possible way forward is that I stay well away from him, he truly readjusts and works on himself and comes back to me when he's serious, when he's ready to go the whole hog.

 

Is this realistic? Or am I a 31 year old woman stuck in a Disney film?

 

Should I take his calls? Should I accept an invitation to dinner and 'talk'? Because until he actually makes up his mind, I'm being torn to bits. Equally though, I do not want to cause him to have some knee jerk reaction wherein he proposes again and buys some house in a huge sweeping gesture, because he's frightened of losing me but isn't truly ready.

 

How do you know??????????????????????????????????????????

 

Thanks again everyone.....

[dr strangelove]

I dont like to talk about my previous situation much as I want to keep it somewhat private but

Ill write about it so that you can perhaps see his side a bit clearer

 

I started living with my ex very quickly..

I didnt really have an area for my stuff that was ok cause I had it stored elsewhere. She made one whold drawer open for me. And she even bought me a few things socks etc

 

But I wasnt sure I really wanted to be paying half the rent there or if that was really a fair split as I had half a bed and a drawer..hmm

 

The other thing is I needed some space as well to unwind. She had cable and I hadnt watch cable in a while and there was so many interesting shows on late at night like monster house etc..

 

So it made me wonder is this where I really want to be? Then I eventually moved out cause I needed my own space, that really upset her. Then I said I will live with you again but not in that place

 

Then the other thing was I still has stuff over there, then one day we had a fight and she took away my key

 

And so a few times when we broke up she had my stuff and I couldnt get her to give it back, I even recall her saying once you get your stuff you will never talk to me again

 

Fast forward to now, she still has my stuff.

 

If you move his stuff out maybe just stick it in the garage or say you needed the space or something

 

I remember when she did give back some of my stuff I was heart broken but then I thought still has some of it so..

 

Does any of this help?