Gunny376 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 DesperateDad, imagine your STBXW happily married with the OM. They live the perfect love until the end of their lives. Does it hurt? It shouldn’t. Even a second spent thinking over your STBXW is an awful waste of time. What the STBXW does, is no longer your business. Do not pollute your beautiful mind with the thought of the bitch.. She is not even worth a time of a thought. The only thing that should be in your mind is your kids. Be the best dad you can be for them. Even if you are broke, even if you are emotionally broken, gather your strength to take care of your kids. That is why I say you have a beautiful mind. Do not dirt it by thinking of the bitch. Your happiness will be the happiness of your kids. THEY need to be in the center of your mind, not your STBXW. Even if you were never to love another woman again, raising your kids is your most beautiful goal in life. Good post ~ Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Wow! Thank you all for the great advice and terrific support! I'm feeling much better already. This is really a tough and stressful part of the whole process. I'll be moving out in the next week or so and I have to admit it's scary. I am looking forward to having more time to myself, but it's been so long since I've been on my own that it's very intimidating. I know logically that I can do it, that I'm resourceful, tough, and a survivor, but the head and the heart are always at war. Yes, I've had times when it took everything I could do to control my anger. I've had fits of rage and hatred that I've never known before and if I were ten years younger I know I wouldn't be able to control myself. Thank God for maturity. ifwisheswerehorses, that's a great story and gives me some hope. The problem with me getting involved with my kids activities is that POS is already doing a bunch of stuff like being my son's Scoutmaster (along with STBXW). I felt like it was a their way of trying to push me out. Her response to my concerns about not wanting to participate with POS was that it was my choice. LOL. I've heard that so many times you wouldn't believe! If I didn't like the fact that she and he were doing whatever they were doing, that was MY choice! Vader, I know all the kids are mine since we had them all before she met POS. Plus, the youngest one looks like my clone, god help him... Gunny, I believe i called you a misogynist or something. LOL. We had a rough start on this board, but things worked out great, huh? notspiritual, thanks for the kind words! Once I'm in my own place I think it will be much easier for me to get some emotional distance. cta, you've got to clue me in on your secrets! Maybe you could PM me with some tips... Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Your anger is you wanting some sort of revenge, wanting her to be ripped apart knowing what she did to you, at least in part. Don't waste your time waiting for that day, LIVE! That day will come soon enough, Honey I'm HOOME!:lmao: Mr. Reality is Here! Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Darth is right! The "Darkside" can and will cosume you, and become you. Back when I went through the S*** I was hating life and everyone in it! You called me a "woman hater" ~ not really. I'm just wise ~ as you are ~ now ~ to their BS games! My "standards" and "expectations" are higher now, and I've ZERO tolerance for some women's BS! LS has shown me and taught me ~ there are good women out there! They don't play, and don't put up with any BS ~ but there are good women out there! The good and solid kind of women the men of LS want, need, and deserve. Ditto for the women! Anyway? Here are some of the books I've read! http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1190163#post1190163 Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 Thanks, Darth and Gunny. It's really hard keeping that anger under control when I have it shoved in my face every day. I tend to do a lot of self-reflection (or call it self-doubt) and always ask myself if other's criticism of me is justified. I've had a really hard time over the last couple of years with this, too. I've wondered a lot if I was the bad guy since I was the first to step outside of my marriage by kissing that college girl so long ago. That was over in just a few weeks and never progressed to actual sex, but I wondered if I deserved what I was getting because of that. I've also felt really guilty at times for the things I've said to my STBXW, wondering if I drove her to this point by reacting angrily to what she's said and done. I've wondered if maybe it was okay for her to move on with her life and get into this relationship with POS. She told me she wanted a divorce, right? Now, even though I still have doubts sometimes, I know that her actions have been simply wrong and completely selfish. She has metamorphosed into a blind, deaf, and dumb creature that can only spout the same list of adolescent myspace platitudes to rationalize her behavior. Anything that occurs can and is twisted to support her world view. I'm really glad that I've spoken to a couple of my other neighbors in the past few days and had my suspicions validated. It's still painful as hell, but the confirmation that I'm not the bad guy feels good in a bittersweet way. I feel vindicated that I'm not the awful piece of crap she paints me to be. Have any of you ever heard this: that your WS is going to reveal the truth to everyone if you start talking? I've heard this a thousand times and I guess it just underscores the disconnect from reality. So, what's this truth she's talking about? That I kissed a sexy college girl after way too many beers and no affection from my wife for years? Or maybe something spicier like I'm a drunk and abusive or something like that. It has hit me over the last few days that the truth is apparent to the people around us whether we know it or not. I wondered if people knew that my STBXW was having this affair. Of course they all knew. In fact, they all knew it before I did, but were afraid to bring it up! Gunny, I know now that you are certainly NOT a woman hater. I understand what you're saying after all this has happened to me. <tender moment> I also have to say how touched I am that you were thinking about me. I've thought quite a lot about your advice over the months that I haven't been posting on this board. I've told myself many times to "man up" and it's helped me through some rough spots. </tender moment> I remember you recommending some of those books before and I've actually read a couple of them. Great stuff! Especially, DYD, but I haven't had much occasion to put it into action --yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 Also, Gunny, you, cta, LadyJane and Mz Pixie especially, have taught me that I have to have boundaries. I learned from you all that I can someday have a relationship with a woman without allowing her to dominate me or walk all over me. I've learned that I can respect myself (and be myself) and demand that others respect me, too. This is still a struggle, but knowing is half the battle as they say... Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Also, Gunny, you, cta, LadyJane and Mz Pixie especially, have taught me that I have to have boundaries. I learned from you all that I can someday have a relationship with a woman without allowing her to dominate me or walk all over me. I've learned that I can respect myself (and be myself) and demand that others respect me, too. This is still a struggle, but knowing is half the battle as they say... So what's stopping you from talking now about her affair, an idle threat? Does her family know what she has/is doing? Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 What is going to threaten you with? Have an affair? Cheat on you with another man? Leave you for another man? Divorce you? Ruin you financially? Make you move out of your house? About all she can threaten you with now is ~ HARSH LANGUAGE?! She's out of gas! She's played her last card. You could be going for a sex change like tha joker down in Fla ~ no one cares! Life goes on! She's got nothing but air coming out of her mouth! She's trying to run a mind game on you, and you're letting her do it. She's talking the same smack my XW did seventeen years ago, and if I didn't know better, I'd stand up in court and swear we're talking about the same woman. My XW got things all her way ~ because I let her have it all ~ for the sake of the children. Had I not been carrer military, things would have gone a lot differently. Your mind is locked in a un-reconcilable logic matrix trying to figure out why your marriage went south. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out ~ you could spend years (I know I did) trying to just resolve your part in its demise! Don't do that! Quit doing that! You gave and are still giving your best that you had and that you could. Ten years from now, you'll have more to give, and you'll see that if you knew now what you'll know in ten years, you could have done better. But you didn't know, and so you couldn't give what you didn't have. Affairs are seldom about the BS, and by definition very much about the WS. By definition they're being selfish, and me, me, me. Here's a link to an e-book, when you read it ~ you'll understand what's going on with the STBXW (Orginally posted by RoosterDAR) http://www.womensinfidelity.com/index.html#home Read the following article at DivorceRecovery101 http://www.divorcerecovery101.com/soa3.htm http://www.divorcerecovery101.com/soa7.htm and then read an article a day from one of these at the same site: http://www.divorcerecovery101.com/site_map.html I realize that things are stressed right now financially. Goggle "Debtfree Living" a website ran by Mary Hunt. I can't link you because its a paid site. (Costs $2 a month) For your 2 bucks you'll get access to the full site, and get a e-mail newsletter once a month, plus access to all the back newsletters (years and years worth) plus access to the fourmn. At the fourmn you'll find common answers to real day to day life problems. Good folks over there. Sort of like a financial version of LS. The site is full of money saving, getting by, making do, substitution ideas. You name it, Birthdays, Christmas, day to day, groceries, cooking ~ we're talking people that make a know how to get the absolute most out of a penny. Mary is just your average everyday housewife, that got caught up with a mortgage, some children, car (f)leases, and about $100,000 in credit card debt. She started the newsletter as a way of bringing just one more dollar in to pay off her debt. Along the way she became an author, about getting good at getting by. She's of the same cloth as Dave Ramsey, but she gives you real life ~ real time solutions to day to day living ~ like how to just put a meal on the table for just today. As for the STBXW and her BS? Go tell her to pound sand in her azz! She's full of it! You're a good man ~ just the fact that you're taking the high road and standing by those babies of yours says it all! You don't need her validation! PS ~ Also http://www.datingagain101.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
michael's_pain Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 DD, I'm new to this forum and late to the post, but I work with a national nonprofit that helps people in trouble with their mortgages. One of the websites we have is www.995hope.org. It's a toll-free number that might be able to connect you with your lender's loss-mitigation department, versus the azzs in collections who just want money. They might be able to help you restructure or refi the property, if you're interested...could help to have some stability in your life. Continue to be strong...you're doing well, and now that she's out of your hair, things WILL improve. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 Thanks, guys. Vader, her family does know that she has a boyfriend now, according to her. They may not realize what's been going on for the past couple of years because she hasn't been on good terms with them for a long time. I know that they take everything she says with a grain of salt because of all the lies. I used to wonder why they all thought she was a liar. Now, I know. I'm not really interested in talking to them, though. Relations with them have been up and down over the years and though they've been there to help us out in some rough times, there have always been strings attached. They would always make a point of saying, we're going to help you with this, but you have to do this. Now, I think I understand that because they have never trusted her. I'm better off to forget the whole bunch of them. That said, I will talk to them if they come to me and I won't be a jerk about it. Gunny, I agree the threats are just hot air. I realize that she still has the power to affect my emotions. I just now had another nasty argument with her. She just left with the kids to go to a baseball game with her family and the kids were upset that I wasn't going. She called me to ask me what I've been saying to them about the divorce. I told her that I told them that I didn't want this divorce. My son asked me straight up if I wanted a divorce and I said that I hadn't, but that it was the only thing we could do now. I'm trying not to paint their mother like the lying bitch she is, but what am I supposed to say? I'm really having a hard time dealing with this part, too. They also keep asking me about POS and why I don't like him. What should I say? I'm not going to say bad things about their mother, but I'm not going to tell them this guy is a nice, stand up guy. There is no way I'm going to lie to them about this. So, what should I tell them when they ask me why this guy is no longer my friend? Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 Michael, thanks so much for the link. I thought about it and I'm afraid I just don't have the energy or desire to try to work with the STBXW on this. She has done a lot to destroy my credit in the past (I know I let her do it) and I'm not willing to work with her on anything other than getting this divorce done and taking care of the kids. Any other connection with her is just another way she can try to hurt me again. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 They also keep asking me about POS and why I don't like him. What should I say? I'm not going to say bad things about their mother, but I'm not going to tell them this guy is a nice, stand up guy. There is no way I'm going to lie to them about this. So, what should I tell them when they ask me why this guy is no longer my friend? If it was me, I'd tell them that Mommys who are married aren't supposed to have boyfriends and Daddys who are married aren't supposed to have girlfriends. Even little guys know what being married means, and if there's any doubt I'd tell them a little bit about what marriage is supposed to be. No heat, no bitterness, no emotionalism. Just keep the information minimal so that you're only answering the one question without leaving them room to imagine the worst. ie. In response to 'why Daddy doesn't like POS', if you were only to tell them that you have your reasons and that he did something you think is bad... they're left at the mercy of their imagination and without the security of a real answer. So.. if it were me, I'd reassure them that I love them and that none of this is about them, and that this is grown-up business between Mommy and Daddy. I'd tell them that they should NEVER feel like they have to take sides. And I'd tell them also... that they can ALWAYS come to me with any questions they have. Should you decide to answer their questions... your STBX will accuse you of trying to "bash" her. But let her gnash her teeth. Your relationship with your kids needs to be about making them feel loved and secure, and you can't do that if you're not dealing with them from a position of honesty in all things. Remember... no diatribes. When it comes to sensitive issues, answering the one question before you is plenty. As long as you have an 'open-door policy'... they'll come to you with more questions as questions occur to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Curmudgeon Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 So, I have a couple of questions for you: is it a terrible mistake for me to move so close? I think I can avoid the starstruck lovers for the most part, but I know I'll have to deal with the fact that they are together anyway. The only terrible mistake would be is you moved so close in your mind and heart. Physical distance doesn't matter if you can achieve and maintain disinterest and, above all, indifference. As for the children, not to worry. You won't lose them. They're more savvy than you might be giving them credit for. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 The only terrible mistake would be is you moved so close in your mind and heart. Physical distance doesn't matter if you can achieve and maintain disinterest and, above all, indifference. As for the children, not to worry. You won't lose them. They're more savvy than you might be giving them credit for. Agreed. And as LJ was stating, don't give too much. They'll learn "the rest of the story" as they grow up, I get what Gunny was referring to in another post. Children arn't stupid, just curious. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 A couple of good books about children and divorce, "Second Chances" by Judith S. Wallerstein PhD. (?) ~ I've got a copy of it around here somewhere, just can't find it right now at this moment. "Growing Up With Divorce ~ Helping Your Chld Avoid Immediate and Later Emotional Problems" by Neil Kalter ISBN 0-44990563-2 Dr. Wallerstein actually endorsed the later. Dr. Wallerstein conducted a five year study in CA as to the effect of divorce on children. At the end of the study, they found that the effects of divorce on children go much further than the initial first couple of years and requested additional funding. They conducted the study for an additional five years ~ ten total. At the end, they ended up conducting a twenty year study ~ because the effects of divorce on children carry over into their thirties and forties. In "Growing Up With Divorce" some of the chaper titles are: "The Stages of Divorce" "Communicating With Children" "The Divorce Experience for Infants and Toddlers" "Helping Infants and Toddlers Cope" "The Divorce Experience for Early Elementary School Children" "Helping Early Elementary School Children Cope" "The Divorce Experience for Late Elementary School Children" "Helping Later Elementary School Children Cope" "The Divorce Experience For Adolescents" "Helping Adolescsents Cope" Its been seventeen years since I've read these two books, but I'm absolutely convinced they help me "take" not only the high road ~ but the right road in dealing with my divorce. Today, both of my children are very well adjusted, responsible, mature adults. My 27 year old daughter not only bought her first car without a co-signer at 21, she bought her first house at 24. She's got an outstanding FICO score and guards it zealously. She should have married "Mr. Reality ~ because they're just alike! She doesn't play! I'm actually surprised that she's married? Usually you only would get one shot with her ~ the first time. With her? There's no such thing as I'm sorry I screwed UP! Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny376 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Children arn't stupid, just curious. I'm always learning ~ always growing. One of my first jobs after I retired from the Corps was as a production supervisor at a millwork plant. They employed "work release" inmates from the AL prison system. One of them asked to borrow my TI-95 calculator, which I used in college for algebra, caluclus, stats, finance classes etc. It comes with a pretty thick instruction mannuel. To the average Joe on the street, it can be a bit intimidating ~ I paid $120 bucks for it at the time. I said something to the effect that it wasn't your $2.00 add and subtract, multiply and divide calculator. He told me something ~ I will never forget! "I'm incarcerated ~ not stupid!" I thought about it for a couple of days ~ all anyone wants is acceptance, appreciation, ~ respect. I gave that to them ~ even though they were inmates! I used words like: "I'd appreciate" ~ I "would like if you" ~ "When you get the time" ~ "Could you?" I'd pull one aside from time to time ~ outside for a one on one "couseling-session" just so he could have a smoke on the side. You take care of your people ~ your people will take care of you! Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 You gotta hand it to him Gunny, even if the manual was very thick, he's not going anywhere anytime soon! Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Thanks for the book recommendations, Gunny. I really need to let go of the past and focus on the future, that is, my children and also myself. I've been making some progress, but talking to you guys has made me realize that my worrying about her relationship and the wrong she's done me is taking up way too much mental space (or processing time, according to divorcerecovery101.com). I've read some articles on the above website and they are really great. Lots of times I find myself nodding my head. It's as if they're reading my mind. I had no idea that most people feel the exact same way I do and think the exact same things when going through something like this. Sure, I know we have a common experience, but the articles on this site just really seem to have gotten inside my head. So, I'm going to try to just dump all that crap from my head and stop bitching about it. The articles on the website I've been talking about say basically to just take it easy and go have fun. I think that's what I need. To take a break from thinking about things for a while, and to not think about some of those things at all anymore. Too much wasted effort. I've been wondering why I've been feeling so exhausted for months now and waking up every day with a headache and sore muscles. I think it's my body stuck on stress overdrive, fight or flight response, and I'm doing nothing with it... I did start moving some of my stuff out of the house yesterday and at first I felt just awful. I had a hard time because I kept thinking about all of the things I was losing. Then I started throwing away old crap and it had a therapeutic effect. Getting rid of old stuff with no use is a good thing. Up to this point I hadn't made any real physical progress toward getting on with my new single life. Moving out is a big step toward that and I think it will help me immensely. I know it will be a tough adjustment at first, but did anybody else find some peace when moving out? Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 It's only gonna get better! Hey, have you ever thought about getting one of those very large LCD or Plasma TVs? I'm sure wifey never let you get one before, soooooo......... It's not like she could stop you now, and you can turn it off when you want! Unlike your STBX! It would be great for those having the GUYS over kinda things, hook up PS3, etc, well you get the Idea, whatever you do, don't just sit around and mope all day long, not good for the recovery thing, why I've seen at Walmart 50" Plasmas! Maybe it's a small goal, yeah right, but, a goal none the less........... Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I know it will be a tough adjustment at first, but did anybody else find some peace when moving out? I felt immense peace and a glimpse of what my new life would be like...I had to move in with my mom and took my two children with me (this lasted 10 months so I could get on my feet and get my own place as he wouldn't pay anything toward our bills and I had the car that was owed on)...I didn't want to stay in the house anyway, I hated that house and everything it symbolized that was wrong with our M... I had only been back to work for 6 weeks (I was a stay-at-home Mom and grad student)...It was scary at first to start over with no idea of what was to come...the unknown...and I was starting over in all ways: new job, new place to live, new friends; essentially, a completely new life... And getting out of it really helped me to see freely again and to begin to love me again...to accept who I was and to really grow up... Now it's been four years since then...my kids are older now (5 and 8) and I am glad that I took those steps that ended my M...They're in a much healthier environment, are thriving in school and know that they are loved... Every situation is different, but in my case D was the best option...and making my way in the world with my two children was the best thing I could have done... You'll find your own way too... (((HUGS))) Link to post Share on other sites
Author DesperateDad Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Vader, you're killin' me! If money weren't so tight, I'd treat myself to some nice stuff or maybe a nice trip to the beach for a week! I'll set some goals for that sort of thing. GreenEyedLady, thanks for the support. Unfortunately, I can't take my kids with me, but I will be living very close to them for now. I know I said it before, but I'm having the most trouble with this relationship my STBXW is having and the fact that they are so serious and have been for more than a year now. What kind of example has this taught my children? I'm just devastated by the fact that she has been more or less openly dating this guy for all this time and thinks there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. We're still living under the same roof and even sleeping in the same bed with our youngest son (just turned 2). She hasn't even filed for divorce yet and I still don't have the money to do it myself. I mentioned in a post yesterday that she'd taken the kids to a baseball game with her family. I found out today that she had taken POS to meet her parents, too. The kids told me that after that, POS took them all to an expensive place to eat. Why am I even talking about this stuff anymore? There's a tendency to think out loud on these forums and I do that a lot. I suppose I'm blowing off steam in some way... I'm moving out over the next week or two and it's really a bittersweet thing for me. I'm moving from the nicest house and neighborhood I've ever lived in to an apartment. I'm sad to leave my children, but only too happy to leave behind this toxic person. I feel like I've said all this stuff a thousand times over already. That's one of the reasons why I stopped posting here last summer. I just felt like I was a broken record repeating the same thing over and over. No one wants to hear that, I'm sure. I probably shouldn't post unless I really have something new to say or ask about... Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Sorry about killin ya, but, keep that in mind as a future goal! As far as the STBXW not filing for the divorce means that she's trying to drag her feet and hurt you more, from the looks of it. Is the house up for sale? It needs to be, to get out from under it at least. Do you know anyone who could help you to expedite divorcing this woman? I hope when you do file that you get your legal ducks in a row in such a way that you don't have to pay child support, like joint, or even sole custody, IMO the children don't need to be around that kind of atmosphere. If this "affair" is going on under your childrens noses, can't that be used? Get that checked out, ok MAN? Laterz. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I agree with filing ASAP...otherwise if she tries to get alimony if you've been married over 10 years it's lifetime or until she remarries or 1/2 the time you are married...It probably varies by state and country, but find out cuz you don't want to pay more than you need to... You might also try filing on-line...In the county where I live you can...a friend of mine did it... I know what you mean about having s*** happen right under your nose...mine was with his "best friend" (OM) day and night and even went to the family holiday functions with us...YUCK! Eventually you'll just get to the point where you don't care...Mine is still with his OM and I at least am glad that he has more sense than my XH... Sorry that you're going through this...I know it sucks! But I promise you, IT DOES GET BETTER!:bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Gel has some good points. Everything you earn until the time you're separated, is shared equally. Get out and file for reasons of infidelity. Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Vader Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I agree with filing ASAP...otherwise if she tries to get alimony if you've been married over 10 years it's lifetime or until she remarries or 1/2 the time you are married...It probably varies by state and country, but find out cuz you don't want to pay more than you need to... You might also try filing on-line...In the county where I live you can...a friend of mine did it... I know what you mean about having s*** happen right under your nose...mine was with his "best friend" (OM) day and night and even went to the family holiday functions with us...YUCK! Eventually you'll just get to the point where you don't care...Mine is still with his OM and I at least am glad that he has more sense than my XH... Sorry that you're going through this...I know it sucks! But I promise you, IT DOES GET BETTER!:bunny: I didn't know a person could file online. I thought I was reading that right, your XH is with an OM?! Well wonders never cease! I'm glad you got outta there! Link to post Share on other sites
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