Happy OW with no particular question..?

[frannie]

Well I thought rather than keep clogging up FF's thread with my responses to posts about my relationship, I'd start a thread, using the latest post. Can't keep on thread/jacking.

 

Bearing in mind that I'm not looking for any input or advice or suggestions on my relationship which yes, I'm very happy with and have no intentions whatever of changing. So, that out of the way, this is the post I was about to reply to on FF's thread:

 

Well you say that you wish things were different so I doubt you are terribly happy about the situation. I guess you are resign to the fact that he just isn't going to leave home.

 

Whem my xmm made it clear he wasn't leaving, I tried to justify him staying with his family. I talked to a few male friends as I wanted a male perspecitve and they rolled their eyes and said "he's just not as into you as you are him".

I didn't want to hear that, but I really began to look at the whole one sided situation. You see your mm every week when he's working, so in one way you have him during the week and his wife has him at the weekend. It is not as if he is just seeing you every week for 5 hours or so. But at the end of the day, you and all the OW/OM here are the "losers" and whatever way we dress it up, we are their bits on the side.

I seethed when xmm went on holiday to exotic locations and I know of loads of men who leave their wives and children to live a fulfilling life with the OW. This led me to resent him even more.

We didn't talk about it, but I am sure he was intimate with her if only to keep up appearances. The same with your mm; when he goes to his wife at the weekend he is bound to show that he has missed her. Maybe he has-he is not going to tell you that.

 

Anyway, when I surveyed my situation, I realised that he was not that in love with me or he would have left home.

I think you were fairly confident that he was going to leave and when he didn't then he assumed you would end the affair. The fact that you haven't gives him no incentive to change his lifestyle. He has all the trappings of marriage, the mutual friends, the shared finances, family meals, going to events without having to be tactical about it---in short a real relationship.

 

I think the reason you didn't go NC was because he would accept that and not get in touch with you as happened a while back (if I remember correctly). People who really love each other do not walk away, and his inaction in trying to contact you speaks volumes.

 

I didn't say I wish things were different, I said I'd rather they were different (or words to that effect). That is where the WHOLE difference lies, I think, in how I felt and thought before, and how I think and feel now. I just don't need, don't wish, don't hope, for anything to change. And I think that being in that frame of mind really affects how you feel about life. Nothing he could do or change would make one iota of difference to my happiness. Because I found that for myself. Good place to be.

 

I've never needed to 'justify' his reasons for staying. I understand them completely, and even agree with them to be honest, and have said as much way, way, way before he didn't leave. Of course you'd have to check out my older posts to see what I've been writing here for years, but the points of view are there.

 

If you think you can ask random males for a 'male perspective' on all other males, then I think you're wallowing in generalisations. Maybe some of your friends told you that your MM was not very into you... fair enough. If you think that all men can tell you that all MM are not that into all OW, then you're listening to bull. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere inbetween.

 

Whether you see yourself as a 'loser and a bit on the side' is really down to you. Personally, I don't. You talk about exotic holiday destinations and so on like they're part of every MM's life with his W... failing to realise that not everyone's situation is like yours. And yes, some MM leave their Ws, and marry OW's... but so what..? Does that mean that yours or my situation has to match theirs to be relevant or real?

 

And yes, you surveyed your situation and realised he was not in love with you. And good for you that you got yourself out of it. Does that mean that all OW and all MM are a carbon copy of your life? Is your 'advice' to every OW that she is in your situation, it's hopeless, loveless, going nowhere and she should get out? Then forgive me, but that's worthless.

 

I was never confident that he was going to leave. Not once. I don't think there was one post I made on here, and one thought I had that didn't have doubt all over it. What makes you think otherwise? I've been posting on this site for something approaching two years now and your name isn't one I recognise, and your 'thinking' doesn't really match with anything I've posted. So can I assume it's an assumption of yours rather than based on anything you took from my history of posts..?

 

I've always doubted that he'd leave... right from about two or three months into knowing him, when he suddenly said he couldn't meet with me because he had just realised what all this meant in terms of messing with his kids' lives.

 

And you don't know me, no one here does. Neither do you know him. So how can assumptions be made about intention, need, priorities? I post very little about the day to day of our relationship... there's nothing to base assumptions on. So how could anyone know (I didn't even know) how the actual final, unequivocal 'no I'm not leaving' could affect either one of us? We didn't. I didn't.

 

So on to your next point. Your MM you are sure made love, made sure his wife knew he'd missed her, whatever. Therefore all married couples make love..? You know there's really no logic to what you say there either. Besides, what reason could you possibly have for assuring me that this 'must be' the case with my MM..? Do you spend time in his bed? In ours? No. You have no clue. The man could have erectile problems, could really not like sex, WE could never even have sex, there could be all sorts of things going on but somehow, inevitably, in your mind, he 'has to' be going home and showing his wife how much he's missed her. Right. This is the wife who doesn't even speak to him for three days at a time..?

 

And in addition... you have no clue whether I do or don't care whether he has sex with other women, his wife included. Do you know what our sex life consists of..? No. And yet you're so sure about what happens when he returns home... OK. Assumptions.

 

Onto your final paragraph.

 

I don't need to make any more moves to give him an 'incentive' to change his current situation. I think a huge factor in my feeling so good and free of worry now is that I KNOW that I gave him every single incentive to leave.. and he still didn't. End of worry, end of concern, end of doubt. He needs to be there. And if I can't accept that, then I leave. But I can. It's easy. Now.. it's very very easy, in fact, to accept that he has that priority and there's no more push or pull or indecision. No, it's not a situation I'd have gone into. The situation I went into was one of a man saying his marriage was over, and he was not happy. Everything he said was about leaving. But words are easy. Actions are not.. especially when the situation becomes real. And he realised that he could not leave. And that is the same thing I was faced with... I will NOT be in an affair! I stated... but when it came to it, it seems I would be. But only when I loved him already. Such is the way it turned out.

 

I do not consider the 'trappings of marriage' 'mutual friends' blah blah as a 'real relationship'. Again, look back on my posts if you like, but I have always said that a marriage and a relationship are two completely different things. What he and I have is a relationship. We work on it every single day of our lives. A relationship is between two people... there are no 'trappings'... there is no wider anything in fact. Though of course those things matter, they are incredibly important! But when it comes down to it the 'trappings' are not the relationship. It takes BOTH... but the heart of it is in two people dealing with each other, fulfilling each other, leaning and relying on each other, sharing things, fun, and conversations, good times and bad. The 'trappings'... they're extraneous.

 

I did not want to end that because I realised that he really needed to be where he was. And that my only choice was whether I wanted to continue to have him in my life or not. And I chose yes... we have something great I don't see the reason for ending. Yes, things could be different, but that's life.

 

The fact he would abide by NC and not break it, would let me live my life in any way I needed to, and not impose, never contact me and so on means the world to me. The fact he was prepared to let me go, because of what he believes in means the world to me too. It shows me where his priorities are, and that they're not with easy giving in to what he wants to do, even when it almost broke his heart into tiny pieces. But the fact he's happy as anything to see me, and makes every moment we spend together special, and works, really works on what we do have... well that's just fantastic to me, and a happy situation for me to be in.

 

Why would I want anything more..? It was never, ever, going to be an easy situation. We met and he was married with two children. How could that ever have turned out 'well'... or perfect..? The answer is, it can't. There is no perfect, obvious answer. We are two people who met and at first thought it was going to be easy, and rapidly found out it really wasn't... there IS NO easy, obvious, evident, right, direction a situation like this can go in. We're doing it our way, and just now no one is suffering. So, I think we have some things right.

 

But.

 

I've opened this thread now because I'm willing to debate stuff on this topic. NOT because I want to change where I am, I'm not unhappy, I'm not needing advice, and I certainly don't need any 'tough love'. I'm 44 years old, he's 45 and neither of us need teaching how to live. But since people keep commenting on my situation in other people's threads I thought it only fair the debate or whatever it is got brought to a single space where I don't feel like I'm threadjacking every time I post.

 

So there you go.

[NearlyThere]

Hi Frannie

 

I'm glad your in a place where you can be happy with your current situation.

 

NT

[GreenEyedLady]

I love your post Frannie!

 

Everything that you've stated explains exactly how a majority of OW feel...Not everyone has a relationship with their MM that consists of stolen moments in the backseat of a car as some would love to believe...

 

R's come in all different types of packages...those who are in real R's know what if feels like...they notice when the other person loves them...the A relationship is no different...and no stranger can tell anyone whether someone loves them or not...YOU FEEL IT!

 

I'm glad you're happy...GEL

[sadbuttrue]

great post frannie. it is very true like gel said of how a lot of OW feel i believe. i am glad you are happy

[dignityback]

So are you actually glad when he leaves your house and goes home at the weekend?

 

And you would like me to possibly believe that you and him don't have sex. Please, let's deal with reality. I never suggested he was with you just for the sex, but I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't an important part of your relationship.

 

As you say, you gave him every opportunity to leave for you and he didn't.

If you just think about it for a moment, what is that saying?

 

Yes, we both know men with young children who leave home and those are the men that are truly in love with their OW. They are not cake eaters. I just wish you would admit that.

 

You have to be happy with your affair, because that is all he is offering you.

If you can be happy sharing him, then good for you.

No more hoping that he will leave home, no more of those discussions about where the relationship is going, because it isn't going anywhere and there is no future in it.

I actually thought you were in your thirties (just my impression) but to be someone's side dish is very, very sad for you.

 

At the end of the day, he sounds just like every other bloke who isn't going to leave home. He will continue the affair if he can get away with it, which clearly he can. He doesn't want his wife finding out, and he is willing to introduce you to relatives as long as you and him lie about who you really are. Not a pretty scenario is it.

 

He was fine with you ending it if it was hurting you, so he could have walked away and never seen you again. Yeah, sounds like true love to me!

You clearly are desperately in love with him, but IMO, his actions show that this is not reciprocated.

 

GEL, I do not think that most affairs comprise of a quickie in the back of the car and so I don't know what you mean by saying it.

[outofdarkness]

You say that you are truly happy, as is everyone involved...I wouldn't bet on that...A's always tear families apart...

[overandout]

So are you actually glad when he leaves your house and goes home at the weekend?

 

And you would like me to possibly believe that you and him don't have sex. Please, let's deal with reality. I never suggested he was with you just for the sex, but I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't an important part of your relationship.

 

As you say, you gave him every opportunity to leave for you and he didn't.

If you just think about it for a moment, what is that saying?

 

Yes, we both know men with young children who leave home and those are the men that are truly in love with their OW. They are not cake eaters. I just wish you would admit that.

 

You have to be happy with your affair, because that is all he is offering you.

If you can be happy sharing him, then good for you.

No more hoping that he will leave home, no more of those discussions about where the relationship is going, because it isn't going anywhere and there is no future in it.

I actually thought you were in your thirties (just my impression) but to be someone's side dish is very, very sad for you.

 

At the end of the day, he sounds just like every other bloke who isn't going to leave home. He will continue the affair if he can get away with it, which clearly he can. He doesn't want his wife finding out, and he is willing to introduce you to relatives as long as you and him lie about who you really are. Not a pretty scenario is it.

 

He was fine with you ending it if it was hurting you, so he could have walked away and never seen you again. Yeah, sounds like true love to me!

You clearly are desperately in love with him, but IMO, his actions show that this is not reciprocated.

 

GEL, I do not think that most affairs comprise of a quickie in the back of the car and so I don't know what you mean by saying it.

 

 

Dignityback

Ditto, ditto, ditto.

Agree with everything you said. Glad that you have some self respect and can see right through your xmm.

Well done, one day you will meet a guy who will love you enough to be his number one priority and won't be content seeing you on a part time basis.

[NoIDidn't]

Frannie

 

I wanted to stay away from this thread, but it has been bothering me since I first read it and many of your latest posts. I am not writing this for any kind of debate from you or anyone else on this forum.

 

A few months ago you were determined to find out where you stood regarding him leaving his W. You even threatened to end it if he couldn't come to a decision. Then he gave you a really pathetic attempt at convincing you of how conflicted he was: he posted at LS in the divorcing section. He probably even tells you not to listen to those "bitter" wives who's husbands probably wanted to leave them too. He has you exactly where he wants you.

 

What's really disgusting about him is that he is probably cheating his company out of money while he stays with you. They are probably giving him an expense account for meals and a hotel that he doesn't use. I know that I am assuming alot, so I don't need anyone telling me that. But I have worked as a consultant for many years. I know how this type operates.

 

I really like you Frannie, so this is far from a dig. If you were a real life friend of mine, I would say the same thing to your face - at the risk of you never wanting to speak me again. And for all that follows, forget that I am speaking to one in an A. I wouldn't allow a friend in a R with a SG to go through this. SG do this too.

 

You have decided that you don't deserve more from a man and you are so in love with this one that you are letting him get away with MURDER. Gone is the spunky woman that came here full of fire and willing to argue why her love/affair was so all-consuming. Gone is the woman that was willing to stand up for what she wanted from the man she loves. Gone is the open-minded woman that at least was willing to hear opinions that differed from her own.

 

In her place is this lifeless woman. A woman that has closed her mind, and her heart. A woman that no longer has the emotional stamina to fight for what she deserves from the R. A woman that won't allow others to talk about her sitch with her because she is RESIGNED to it.

 

You are losing yourself to this affair. Full of bluster about how you were going to walk if he didn't start a divorce in March. Then you disappear from the forum and come back "happy". You've "accepted" things the way that they are. You are "enjoying the now". You don't even sound the same. You can't hide the pain that is reflected in your responses, no matter how "happy" you keep saying you are. Saying it over and over again will not make it so.

 

There is so much wrong with this affair and the mindset that you have allowed yourself to have to make it acceptable, its not funny. Its really sad. You don't talk much about it because you don't want the truth of it said back to you. But you don't have to say much for folks to know intuitively what's really going down.

 

I know what I am saying is not popular with the OW crowd here. But I don't care. Its obvious that you have lost yourself; that you are losing yourself. The life is being sucked right out of you. You don't even seem to see it. Affair or not, this R is changing you for the worst.

 

Your perkiness is gone Frannie. I used to see this animated woman in your posts. I used to see a spirited woman who knew what SHE wanted and was willing to demand it. She is gone.

[NoIDidn't]

I had to add this. It took me so long to word my post that others posted ahead of me. I am really not interested in jumping on any bandwagon. It may not seem so to others, but, Frannie, I hope that you can see that.

[GreenEyedLady]

GEL, I do not think that most affairs comprise of a quickie in the back of the car and so I don't know what you mean by saying it.

 

I'm wondering why you think my quote had anything to do with YOU?

[dignityback]

NoIDidn't what a great post.

 

I almost feel frightened to say anything too pointed, for fear of being erased from this forum!

 

A few weeks back, Frannie posted to say something like she was grateful that her mm thought enough of her to cheat to be with her. And that just because the bs had a wedding ring, well so what. It was full of biterness, her comments I mean.

I personally think she would like to wear his wedding ring one day.

 

So yes she has resigned herself to being the OW and is "happy" with it.

I thought about the "free" accommodation he gets but decided against pointing that out.

Neither Frannie nor her mm like anyone to disagree with them. The charade of posting on Separations was too much for me--especially when he told Lady Jane I think to stop posting.

He has broken her spirit and convinced her that she deserves nothing more.

 

She is in denial about his "love" for her. Most OW have enough self esteem and self confidence to move on when they are "rejected" not stay hanging around for more. He must have thought he had won the lottery when she agreed to remain his OW.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I've opened this thread now because I'm willing to debate stuff on this topic.

 

Frannie, if you have finally reached the place where you are genuinely happy and content, then there is really no reason why you should wish to continue hashing your situation out over and over again. UNLESS you are still searching for answers within yourself.

 

No one can convince you that you’re not happy if indeed you are. As a matter of fact, even attempting to do so would only result in having you defend this married man’s actions towards all those involved... even more. Thus, firming up your position and solidifying your resolve to settle into a situation that you may or may not be fully content in.

 

“Reactance.”

 

And honestly, that would only do you a greater disservice. You need to remain fluid to possibility that one day you might very well get fed up and change your mind again. And feel completely free to do so without worrying about “how it might look” if you were to suddenly change your resolve after putting up such a damn good fight. And that has to come about on your own, without all the pushin’ and poddin’ from folks like us who seem more concerned about you than you are for yourself.

[norajane]

the heart of it is in two people dealing with each other, fulfilling each other, leaning and relying on each other, sharing things, fun, and conversations, good times and bad.

 

Yes, it is. And that's worth searching for, instead of settling for a limited relationship with three people entangled at the heart of it. For me, that would always be the sticking point and the part that would rankle every time I saw him, and especially every time he left to go home to her.

 

Maybe you do feel some kind of peace and relief at no longer having the open questions about the future - now you know how things will be and there is no need for further wondering and racking your brain trying to think of workable options. That initial sense of relief may pass, though, so don't be afraid to change your mind and walk away at a later time.

[GreenEyedLady]

Frannie, if you have finally reached the place where you are genuinely happy and content, then there is really no reason why you should wish to continue hashing your situation out over and over again. UNLESS you are still searching for answers within yourself.

 

In Frannie's defense , she was hounded on other threads about her situation and that was why she opened her thread to address other posters who kept asking her questions...

[overandout]

Yes, it is. And that's worth searching for, instead of settling for a limited relationship with three people entangled at the heart of it. For me, that would always be the sticking point and the part that would rankle every time I saw him, and especially every time he left to go home to her.

 

Maybe you do feel some kind of peace and relief at no longer having the open questions about the future - now you know how things will be and there is no need for further wondering and racking your brain trying to think of workable options. That initial sense of relief may pass, though, so don't be afraid to change your mind and walk away at a later time.

 

Highlighted what most people are concerned about.

The limitations of the relationship and her deluding herself that he is very much in love with her.

However the facts (especially her mm's actions or lack of them) just don't stack up to support this.

 

Exclusivity is worth fighting for, and if it is unobtainable with one person, then just move on because he is clearly prepared to let the affair go. She isn't (yet?).

[Can'tGiveUp]

What Frannie might have planned to do in March is somewhat irrelevant. We are human and we change our minds. Sometimes we don't make the right choices, sometimes we make a choice that is right for us...at the time...but might not be what others would do.

 

For now, Frannie has decided that she is happier where she is. Change is hard and ending an R, whether it is an A or not, is not easy. The process sometimes takes a lot of time and much back and forth in your head as to what is right for you. This board is here for her to do some of that thinking out loud and get input from others, but ultimately the decision has to be hers alone.

 

I believe when A's are involved there are way more considerations. Often you are trying to end something that still makes you feel good. Leave a person you still love...and who still loves you. I also believe that many remain in the A until it hurts more to stay than it does to leave. I know I did.

[Tomcat33]

Excellent post Can't Give Up!!! I was thinking along the same train of thought.

 

I was simply going to post that this could very well be the beginning of the end for Frannie's A, because now she stops fighting the idea that she might have him one day to herself which will free up more time to focus on the reality of their reltionship. I have a gut feeling that the relationship will change in time and become very different from what it once was and she will have the strength and certainty to act in a way that is closer to 100% as opposed to 40% or what have you.

 

Frannie this was not a jab towards your decision, I fully respect your happiness and the fact that you found peace within your situation. I just think that peace brings clarity.

[lessonlearnt]

The trouble is she was so certain that she was going to end the affair, that she can't eat humble pie and so she saves face by telling everyone that she is "happy".

 

I bet she feels used, empty and humiliated when he shuts the door and heads back home to the family he clearly loves.

He won't give it up though, as it saves him having to book into a hotel and paying for any sexual favors he wants.

[GreenEyedLady]

The trouble is she was so certain that she was going to end the affair, that she can't eat humble pie and so she saves face by telling everyone that she is "happy".

 

Such words of wisdom from someone with 5 posts...what exactly were you trying to accomplish with your post? I don't see it as being helpful to anyone...

[GreenEyedLady]

What Frannie might have planned to do in March is somewhat irrelevant. We are human and we change our minds. Sometimes we don't make the right choices, sometimes we make a choice that is right for us...at the time...but might not be what others would do.

 

For now, Frannie has decided that she is happier where she is. Change is hard and ending an R, whether it is an A or not, is not easy. The process sometimes takes a lot of time and much back and forth in your head as to what is right for you. This board is here for her to do some of that thinking out loud and get input from others, but ultimately the decision has to be hers alone.

 

I believe when A's are involved there are way more considerations. Often you are trying to end something that still makes you feel good. Leave a person you still love...and who still loves you. I also believe that many remain in the A until it hurts more to stay than it does to leave. I know I did.

 

You've said it brilliantly!

[lessonlearnt]

Such words of wisdom from someone with 5 posts...what exactly were you trying to accomplish with your post? I don't see it as being helpful to anyone...

 

 

Who are you--the moderator?

Just because I only have 5 posts doesn't mean that I can't have my say, but then I forgot, we all have to agree with the original poster and her mouth piece (YOU!).

 

I am not trying to achieve anything except to express how I see the situation, and I believe I am allowed to do that.

You are selective in your attacks--you left INearlyDidnt alone. I agree with her post. Are you sure you read it?

 

Oh thanks, I've got 6 posts now!

[lessonlearnt]

Meant to say "NoIdidn't" apologies for getting the name wrong.

I am just fed up with GEL's condescending remark as if "newbies" should be seen and not heard.

[annabelle75]

In her place is this lifeless woman. A woman that has closed her mind, and her heart. A woman that no longer has the emotional stamina to fight for what she deserves from the R. A woman that won't allow others to talk about her sitch with her because she is RESIGNED to it.

 

When reading Frannie's post, this is what I saw too. As some one who doesn't know here history or story, this is how her post came across to me. It made me sad.

 

Those that know me here know that I am not in the least judgemental of OW. I can recognize the fact that As are real realationships that shouldn't just be dissmissed as nothing. I do get it, but what I read above sounded like some one that has become resigned that she will never get what she wants and deserves and has chosen to settle for less. If this was a regular relationship and not an affair I would feel the same way. It just made me kind of sad.

[Can'tGiveUp]

Who are you--the moderator?

Just because I only have 5 posts doesn't mean that I can't have my say, but then I forgot, we all have to agree with the original poster and her mouth piece (YOU!).

 

I am not trying to achieve anything except to express how I see the situation, and I believe I am allowed to do that.

You are selective in your attacks--you left INearlyDidnt alone. I agree with her post. Are you sure you read it?

 

Oh thanks, I've got 6 posts now!

 

You may agree with NoIDidn't's post but the tone of her post was completely different from yours. Perhaps you should reread what you wrote.

 

The tone of your post is somewhat cruel and not helpful in any way, shape, or form.

[lessonlearnt]

Can'tGiveUp,

I agree I have a different tone but that is my style.

Sometimes bluntness is what is needed, instead of people pussyfooting around the issues.

I merely summed up what most people write here--he is using her and somehow she has accepted that this dead end relationship is her lot.

 

Now that is very sad in anyone's language.