wait, what!? "isn't she worth going into a *little* debt for?"

[K-os]

I want to make it clear really quick that my original post from the thread I started had nothing to do with money. I was hoping people could look past something so petty and focus on my real cause for concern. I wasn't saying, "This ring is really cheap. Do you think I can get by for that little?" I was concerned with the fact that one of the rings I was considering looked very untraditional. Even though I knew she wanted something different, I got paranoid it was a bit too different. My suspicions have been confirmed with about half the people, while the other half seem more open to the idea of something so unique. I haven't focused on the money much at all thus far. It's the people who weren't so happy with my rough budget that made it an issue. Just needed to get that out there.

 

That said, I am enjoying this discussion quite a bit. It's an interesting topic with some equally interesting views.

[quankanne]

She'll focus more on the lovely ring in front of her, the effort put forth on my part to aquire it, how well it matches her, and above all else, the fact that I'm asking her to be my wife.

 

yep ... with the added instruction "it better not cost an arm and leg" and "could you find something unusual" because gold and diamonds just are not me. After 15 years, he's done pretty well on both requests!

[curiousnycgirl]

WOW this really is an interesting discussion - figured I have to add my 2 cents.

 

Firstly I come from a family where gifts and monetary value is EVERYTHING - I of course am the rebel, and don't buy into that.

 

I have always said that I have big fingers, so a ring needs to be big to look good. Therefore it makes no sense to spend any money on something that will look crappy. It is far more important for me to find the right man to share my life with. I truly never felt a ring was important.

 

Having said that - my bf and I were recently on vacation during which I got a great deal on a fabulous Rubelite stone. Upon our return I told him I was having it made into a ring, that could be an engagement ring if he wanted (I had already suggested we get married next month, but that is another thread). I reitereated that while a ring was never important to me, since we had it, what the heck - and yes I am paying for it.

 

He just sorta of said, ok cool - and that was it. I still have no clue what is going on in his head, but again that is another thread.

 

Bottom line I really think this thread is an extension of another I read earlier - something about having faith in your SO and supporting them no matter what.

 

My bf became unemployed 2.5 years ago and has had very little income since (but continues to pay his own bills) - since then he has started 2 companies, one has failed, the other seems to be taking off. I have full confidence in him and support him no matter what. When we go away or out - I pay but I really don't consider that any big deal. I look at us as a partnership - and right now it's my turn - once he is rolling in the bucks - I've told him I plan to retire and be totally supproted!

 

I hope this added vs. detracted from this discussion - I'm just floored by some of what I see here!

[rainfall]

I have never understood why some women think that a man should blow a ton of money on a ring. There are so many more importatnt things to spend money on then an engagment ring. When a women is more worried about the cost of the ring then she is about how it will effect her future husband it makes me wonder if she is even mature enough to consider marraige.

[Krytellan]

OK, let's see...

 

First of all, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think "women" in general are getting a bad wrap on this. I really don't think that there are many women that require their fiance to spend oodles of money. Green-eyed Beauty has made it very clear that she expects a man to be a successful financial savant, but I would think she is in the minority.

 

Let's put this in perspective. I think by tackling this issue from a base number issue is a bad idea. It's all about the relationship. Not to sound narcissistic, but I would like to use me as an example. I'm in considerable debt... from poor choices, bad marriage, and ensuing divorce and move. My gf knows that I'm in debt and we both agree that that is the most important thing to change. I need to get control of my debt. She, however, is in no debt and as her new job, will be making 3x more than I do. She does like jewelry and she does like diamonds.

 

The fact that she is with me indicates that she's in this for love more than money... obviously. If, in the future, I was to propose to her, she would probably be OK with a reasonably priced ring. Would she be happy necessarily? Probably not. But considering my situation, she probably wouldn't expect much.

 

The question really is, how would you feel about how she feels? If you buy your gf an untraditional ring because you think it's what she wants and you are proud of it, then money is not the issue. Will you be proud of it when she shows it off to her friends and family? Will she be proud of it? That's what it comes down to, not the money.

 

You and her being proud of the ring is way more important than the money that goes into it. Personally, I would feel inclined to put myself out a bit for a ring if I were to propose. Not because it is necessarily important to "buy" her, but because it represents to her that she, and the ring I give her, is more important than the money involved and it shows that I understand that it is a lifetime investment, not just "a thing I have to buy in the now". When I look at it, I want to know that I did what I feel good about. I think that's what's more important.

[champagne]

She'll focus more on the lovely ring in front of her, the effort put forth on my part to aquire it, how well it matches her, and above all else, the fact that I'm asking her to be my wife.

 

Who wrote this? This guy gets it.

[champagne]

OK, let's see...

 

First of all, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think "women" in general are getting a bad wrap on this. I really don't think that there are many women that require their fiance to spend oodles of money. Green-eyed Beauty has made it very clear that she expects a man to be a successful financial savant, but I would think she is in the minority.

 

Let's put this in perspective. I think by tackling this issue from a base number issue is a bad idea. It's all about the relationship. Not to sound narcissistic, but I would like to use me as an example. I'm in considerable debt... from poor choices, bad marriage, and ensuing divorce and move. My gf knows that I'm in debt and we both agree that that is the most important thing to change. I need to get control of my debt. She, however, is in no debt and as her new job, will be making 3x more than I do. She does like jewelry and she does like diamonds.

 

The fact that she is with me indicates that she's in this for love more than money... obviously. If, in the future, I was to propose to her, she would probably be OK with a reasonably priced ring. Would she be happy necessarily? Probably not. But considering my situation, she probably wouldn't expect much.

 

The question really is, how would you feel about how she feels? If you buy your gf an untraditional ring because you think it's what she wants and you are proud of it, then money is not the issue. Will you be proud of it when she shows it off to her friends and family? Will she be proud of it? That's what it comes down to, not the money.

 

You and her being proud of the ring is way more important than the money that goes into it. Personally, I would feel inclined to put myself out a bit for a ring if I were to propose. Not because it is necessarily important to "buy" her, but because it represents to her that she, and the ring I give her, is more important than the money involved and it shows that I understand that it is a lifetime investment, not just "a thing I have to buy in the now". When I look at it, I want to know that I did what I feel good about. I think that's what's more important.

 

Krytellan, Green-Eyed Beauty is saying the same thing you are in the bold words, in fact she made a very similar statement earlier.

[champagne]

WOW this really is an interesting discussion - figured I have to add my 2 cents.

 

Firstly I come from a family where gifts and monetary value is EVERYTHING - I of course am the rebel, and don't buy into that.

 

I have always said that I have big fingers, so a ring needs to be big to look good. Therefore it makes no sense to spend any money on something that will look crappy. It is far more important for me to find the right man to share my life with. I truly never felt a ring was important.

 

Having said that - my bf and I were recently on vacation during which I got a great deal on a fabulous Rubelite stone. Upon our return I told him I was having it made into a ring, that could be an engagement ring if he wanted (I had already suggested we get married next month, but that is another thread). I reitereated that while a ring was never important to me, since we had it, what the heck - and yes I am paying for it.

 

He just sorta of said, ok cool - and that was it. I still have no clue what is going on in his head, but again that is another thread.

 

Bottom line I really think this thread is an extension of another I read earlier - something about having faith in your SO and supporting them no matter what.

 

My bf became unemployed 2.5 years ago and has had very little income since (but continues to pay his own bills) - since then he has started 2 companies, one has failed, the other seems to be taking off. I have full confidence in him and support him no matter what. When we go away or out - I pay but I really don't consider that any big deal. I look at us as a partnership - and right now it's my turn - once he is rolling in the bucks - I've told him I plan to retire and be totally supproted!

 

I hope this added vs. detracted from this discussion - I'm just floored by some of what I see here!

 

Just make sure you walk down the aisle in the end and he's not taking you for a ride after you've paid for everything. What if he doesn't plan on getting married to you, or breaks up with you before he supports you royally? It happens. Couples break up. You basically proposed to yourself! Maybe you should write a book on how to get yourself engaged! (Buy your own ring and tell him it's your engagement ring...lol.)

Anyway what if he's now freaking out because he doesn't really go along with your 'plan.' you're basically trying to create your own destiny with this guy by telling him how it is. You think you have the upper hand because you're financing his life, so you think he owes you later but it doesn't always work like that. I know a woman who supported her husband while he was going to med. school and up and left her for another woman a couple years after he had become a doctor. (What are your thoughts on this, Woggle?)

[norajane]

Let's put this in perspective. I think by tackling this issue from a base number issue is a bad idea. It's all about the relationship. Not to sound narcissistic, but I would like to use me as an example. I'm in considerable debt... from poor choices, bad marriage, and ensuing divorce and move. My gf knows that I'm in debt and we both agree that that is the most important thing to change. I need to get control of my debt. She, however, is in no debt and as her new job, will be making 3x more than I do. She does like jewelry and she does like diamonds.

 

The fact that she is with me indicates that she's in this for love more than money... obviously. If, in the future, I was to propose to her, she would probably be OK with a reasonably priced ring. Would she be happy necessarily? Probably not. But considering my situation, she probably wouldn't expect much.

 

Under these circumstances, how would you feel if she offered to contribute to the ring so that she can have the kind of ring she wants?

 

As I said earlier, I don't necessarily view the ring as solely the man's purchase. Once the couple is married, their incomes and expenses are joint. Therefore, if he buys a ring and makes payments after they are married, it is less total joint income. Or, if he buys it outright, then he is bringing fewer total assets into the marriage. Ultimately, it's a purchase they both make if you think if their finances as joint finances when married.

 

I ask because I am in your gf's situation. I'm not dating anyone at the moment, but, historically, I tend to make more money than most of the guys I date, and I tend to have more assets. So, to me, I would be more than happy to contribute to a ring. But I suspect that might not go over well with a guy...pride?

 

What do you think?

[Krytellan]

So, to me, I would be more than happy to contribute to a ring. But I suspect that might not go over well with a guy...pride?

 

What do you think?

 

I guess some people might find this contradictory, I can't really decide.

 

I really don't know if she would want to chip in for a better ring or not. I can't even imagine how that conversation would come up as I wouldn't initiate it. I think deep down if she were to suggest it that it would probably make me feel bad, like a pit in my stomach. It would crush my view of love being the most important thing in the relationship (if I can say that I made a good effort on the ring).

 

It would hurt my pride, you know, it would conjure up feelings of being unable to adequately provide. It's something I struggle with in this relationship. The amount of money she makes really makes me uncomfortable. I grew up white trash and military... I just don't know how to feel about having that much money. I think anytime that the issue comes up of money (how much I can spend) I feel a little bad about it. It's tough having to be the male that doesn't provide monetarily, even though I know that if the relationship were to progess to the children stage I would be the primary caregiver.

 

I wish I could be difinitive in my answer, but as you might see, I feel a bit of a fish out of water in the money department. Maybe you could help me understand where she might "be" in terms of financial issues with me. I would love some insight as to how I can better find my place in this situation.

[stillafool]

K-os I have not read this entire thread but I think it is great that you and your fiance are not spending a lot on a ring. The quality of the ring has nothing to do with the cost of it but the intent behind giving it. I am so sick of superficial women who have to have a large diamond ring to show off to their friends, followed by the large wedding, the vera wang dress and all the other nonsense that have nothing to do with the real issue at hand - the marriage!!! I think you are smart and later on when you make it rich (because you handled your money so well) you can buy her whatever she wants.

[reddog63]

Shoot......the debt is just beginning..........just wait for the divorce!

[ruby_gloom]

Do women really think like this?!

 

Women: is the diamond that important to you?

 

A man who had ethical and financial reservations about a diamond is less attractive as a husband?

 

Wow, that's disgusting.

 

I haven't read all of the thread, either, because I'm just kinda skimming through the boards while at work. I will definitely go back and finish reading this one along with K's thread when I get home, though.

 

But from what I read, I have to say that I agree with you 100 percent: That is disgusting. I'm already feeling kinda sick this morning and reading things like these makes me want to puke.

 

WTF is this nonsense of "isn't she worth getting into a little debt for"?! And who in the world, aside from the rich, thinks a $3K ring is "standard"? What the hell?!

 

All of these excuses of "oh, but they buy cars and 'other' things for more!" are just ridiculous.

 

I would never ever want my SO (when I get one! haha) to spend two or three months of pay on a ring! That is insanity.

 

A ring, imo, is a symbol of love, and love is not, and should not, be measured in money!

 

Something that reflected both of our tastes and likes would mean so much more to me than a diamond, irregardless of the cost.

 

I think that K's sentiment was sincere and very sweet when saying that he wanted a peridot because it was his birthstone and both their favorite color; I would love something like that.

 

I think it is ridiculously selfish to think that the ring is only about "her" as well. That's not true. If that's the case, then she can buy it herself.

 

Wedding rings and engagement rings are a symbol of unity and by saying that her ring is "all about her" seems like a total contradiction.

 

If you can afford a diamond and if a diamond is what you both want, then buy one, but please by all means--don't go into debt to get her a diamond ring! That is just not right.

 

Like poly said, I just don't get that nonsensical way of thinking. Never have and never will.

 

And like darlin and TBF, if you are expecting a ring, then you should by all means give him something back. It's only fair.

[sb129]

If a guy can't pay $3000 for a ring, he isn't marriageable anyway. A guy who has his life together wouldn't think twice. I would want a guy to be responsible with money that I would HOPE he would already have $3000 in his savings account, but if not, he has a decent enough job to pay off a $3000 ring in a few months. People, if you're responsible with money, you should have a generous nest egg in the bank, at least enough to cover you in case you lose your job, etc. etc. etc. financial emergencies. Watch Suze Orman!

 

A guy, well MAN, who buys a woman a real engagement ring is in it for real. He's made a commitment of an investment, he's really going make more of an investment in the marriage, alsol

 

Really? I really don't think the cost of the ring directly correlates to the success of the marriage. In fact, most of the owners of "rocks" I know are not that happy.

Why $3000? Why not $2900? I would like my guy to by a ring that I like.

 

Who said anything about demanding it? I would never demand it. I would only be in love with a guy who would love me enough and want to really commit to get me a decent ring, so it wouldn't be an issue.

I thought you had a guy GEB? What does he think? Or is he talking to his bank manager?

 

Indeed. And one could argue that part of being responsible with money could include not running out to the store to spend all of that $3000 just because everyone's doing it, or people say you're "supposed to". $3k can go a long way for something much more responsible in a marriage, like a house or a car. Isn't a "nest egg" usually there for practical/security reasons? That's what being responsible is all about. And what if she doesn't even want a $3k ring in the first place?! Why pour out the savings account for something she would find to be an irresponsible and unwarrented use of money? Especially something she has no desire for...

 

Great post K-os. Because debts become shared when you marry too!

 

 

I don't have any expectations, I'm not going to say "I expect you to spend X amound on a diamond, and it should be this carat weight, etc. etc." I don't even want to know what he spent, it is something I'd never ask.

 

????? HUH? You said you expected them to spend at least $3000.. stop contradicting yourself GEB.

 

 

 

That's why I don't see how buying an engagement ring of quality for the woman you love is ridiculous or superficial...at ALL.

But quality is subjective to ones budget.

 

K-os I have not read this entire thread but I think it is great that you and your fiance are not spending a lot on a ring. The quality of the ring has nothing to do with the cost of it but the intent behind giving it. I am so sick of superficial women who have to have a large diamond ring to show off to their friends, followed by the large wedding, the vera wang dress and all the other nonsense that have nothing to do with the real issue at hand - the marriage!!! I think you are smart and later on when you make it rich (because you handled your money so well) you can buy her whatever she wants.

 

Oh me too SAF. I HATE the wedding talk at work. I consider weddings to be a monumental waste of money.

If I had unlimited funds, maybe I would think differently but give me a registry office and a three month honeymoon anyday.

[sb129]

I don't have any expectations, I'm not going to say "I expect you to spend X amound on a diamond, and it should be this carat weight, etc. etc." I don't even want to know what he spent, it is something I'd never ask.

 

Soooo

 

If your guy bought you a $200 diamonique ring, which I am told look just as good as diamonds to the untrained eye.... you wouldn't ask how much it cost? Or go get it valued? Even tho he had spent less than a tenth of what you consider to be "commitment" level money?

 

So effectively you are saying that even tho you consider $3000 to be an acceptable amount for a guy to spend, your guy could pull the wool over your eyes....and you would be none the wiser.

[bab]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I think this issue is really unique to the situation each of us is in.

 

For instance, if a ring isn't important to either of you, then no, don't buy one, and don't let outsiders pressure you into it. That's just stupid.

 

On the other hand, if the girl wants one, and the guy thinks it's a waste of money, it gets a bit more subtle. It can really show that the guy is ready to realize that this is a partnership, and her wants and desires are just as important as his. On the other hand, if she's DEMANDS something that is going to hurt them terribly financially, then it's a sign that she isn't ready for the responsibility of marriage.

 

Unless you are planning to keep all monies separate for the duration of your marriage, really the blending of finances happens at engagement. So, it's saying, "this is our money, I know this is important to you, so I bought it." And, she gets to look at it for the next 50 years and think of the moment he proposed.

 

Yes, I would've been willing to marry my H with a 25 bubble gum machine ring, but I'm not sure he would've been the guy if he wasn't able to make my wants and desires above his own, even when he thought they were silly. And yes, within 6 months of marriage we decided to buy something for him that he really wanted that cost about 6 or 7 times what my ring cost. I'm not interested in it, but it makes me smile when I see his eyes light up.

 

Marriage is about give and take. The ring issue is the perfect time chance for the couple to have their first try at it. Although I didn't talk about it much here, it does include the gal being willing to say, I LOVE this $15,000 ring, but I realize that we won't be able to get out of debt for the next 10 years if we buy that one, so maybe we can find something in a different budget range.

 

Note: I always use WE, because if the marriage goes through both of you are really paying for the ring anyway.

[allina]

I think whoever said the quote used as the title of this thread worded it negatively. It suggest that the money equals the worth a woman has to her fiance. I think women are much more in to a beautiful, APPROPRIATE ring for their engagement thing.

 

This doesn't apply to all women, and it may not even be rational but an engagement ring is a huge deal to women. That doesn't mean many women expect a ring that costs 2-3 months salary, I personally would feel foolish and scared to wear a 30K rock on my hand, but the ring is still very important to me.

 

Maybe it's tradition maybe it's society but I want a breathtaking ring that I absolutely love and I don't think I should deemed a selfish bitch for it.

[bab]

I think whoever said the quote used as the title of this thread worded it negatively. It suggest that the money equals the worth a woman has to her fiance. I think women are much more in to a beautiful, APPROPRIATE ring for their engagement thing.

 

This doesn't apply to all women, and it may not even be rational but an engagement ring is a huge deal to women. That doesn't mean many women expect a ring that costs 2-3 months salary, I personally would feel foolish and scared to wear a 30K rock on my hand, but the ring is still very important to me.

 

Maybe it's tradition maybe it's society but I want a breathtaking ring that I absolutely love and I don't think I should deemed a selfish bitch for it.

 

Here here!! I doubt he'll be labeled as a selfish jerk when he wants a golf weekend with the guys that only lasts 3 days.

[allina]

Here here!! I doubt he'll be labeled as a selfish jerk when he wants a golf weekend with the guys that only lasts 3 days.

 

I just laughed so hard at the picture of my SO and his friends golfing

[bab]

I just laughed so hard at the picture of my SO and his friends golfing

 

Yeah, my H doesn't golf either, and I've actually "forbidden" him from taking it up. He's got an expensive hobby and we can't afford another one. That's just the easiest scenerio that might apply to the most people, and might cost about what some of the gals here have in mind for their ring budget.

[Touche]

What I don't get is what's so great about a $3,000 ring? No offense to some of you but I wouldn't wear a diamond ring that only cost $3,000.

 

That's why when my H proposed I refused to let him spend the $7,000 to $10,000 that he wanted to in order to buy me a "proper" engagement ring.

 

I've written about this before. We even had a little argument over it but I got my gorgeous simulated diamond that I still wear proudly twelve years later. Oh and we had a fabulous European honeymoon. And no debt.

 

The man and the marriage is what's important. Not how much he spends on a ring.

 

And in the end, my H thanked me and told me he knew he married a sensible woman.

[adnCat]

I think green-eyed is delusional about her own materiality. My fiance makes less than 1/3 the salary that I do, but he loves what he does, and for that I love him, among an endless list of other reasons.

 

I told him I didn't need a ring, that if he must, a CZ would do. He got me the real thing due to a technicality. (Had to say "It's real!" during the proposal!) He spent a chunk of change on it, for sure. I love it. But I would also love it if it was a CZ. I would also love being engaged if I didn't have a ring. He makes very little money, but is financially savvy. He paid cash for his brand new car, and had savings enough to buy two if he wanted. This is not some trust fund or family money. It is his hard earned salary that he is really smart about. A man does not need to have a lucrative career to be "marriageable." That is ridiculous. My fiance is probably 1000 times over the person/man than any randomly selected guy population of six-figure-earning corporate lemming.

 

And the movie blood diamond is an accurate picture of the industry in the 90s. Since the Kimberley Process has been implemented, it isn't like that. I looked into Canadian diamonds before getting engaged. The company that owns the Ekati mine in Canada also mine radioactive uranium for nuclear power. Not a company I'd want to support. Plus, nearly all rough goes to Antwerp for cutting, so there is always a possibility that a Canadian diamond isn't Canadian. Yeah, they laser inscribe them and stuff, but that is after they are cut. For these reasons, I wouldn't recommend spending the additional money on a Canadian diamond. My stone from Blue Nile is just as guaranteed conflict free as the stones sold as Canadian diamonds.

[thelittlespoon]

Do women really think like this?!

 

Women: is the diamond that important to you?

 

A man who had ethical and financial reservations about a diamond is less attractive as a husband?

 

Wow, that's disgusting.

 

 

Women who think like that suck. They make the rest of us look bad.

[katiebour]

No, the ring isn't that important to me- neither is the wedding, or the dress, or any of that.

 

My ideal wedding is a civil ceremony at the courthouse, with the attendance of a few friends/family members, wearing either a rented dress or something under $500, and going to a restaurant for a reception.

 

The wedding is one day. The ring is just a piece of jewelry. It's the marriage and the rest of your life that counts.

 

IMO, save your money, get everyone to send you some congratulatory $$$ if they so choose, and make a downpayment on a house.